PHOENIX THEOPHRASTII

[greekpalm]

and for those who are interested for the other big ones in crete
Vai: 35.255029,26.261314

Preveli: 35.154118,24.473181

[greekpalm]

btw the coordinates are the green arrow in google maps not the red baloon

[greekpalm]

Not that north if you think about it,,, its only 10 miles short of LA

[Fallacia]

this is indeed a hybrid, im sure about the CIDP part, but not so sure about the other can be a dactylifera or a theophrastii

If it is a dactylifera x canariensis it might not have a too dence leafage. That's only my oppinion.

[mlovecan]

agios nikitas is towards the east of the island, heraclion prefecture bordering with lasithi.

He said southWest

coordinates for the palms in agios nikitas: 34.966085,25.248553 (just copy paste in google maps)

Sorry, I had meant Southeast - Agios Nikitas is precisely where I meant, as I was shown photos of the Monastery there also. Those co-ordinates are dead on! Thanks, as I couldn't relocate it on google maps myself!

Cheers

Maurice

[Jonathan]

Spikey...ugly...drought hardy...frost hardy...sounds perfect, I've gotta get my two little ones into the ground!

Actually, the palms in the top photo in post 28 in Crete are fantastic, they seem to have a much fuller crown than your average dactylifera - they look great like that as as a multi level clump.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Fallacia]

Here is a comparison between the var. prevelis vs the var. vai in these my 2 photos.

This is the p. theophrastii-prevelis var. in Souda beach near Plakias in southwest Crete. Just watch and admire the beautiful droopy and so dense leaves that makes that var. of p. theophrastii more unique as a usual image in those locations of Crete. I believe it is the most apropriate form of phoenix theophrastii to make a beautiful corner of a house yard or garden (except the spiny leaflets).

This is one of the p. theophrastii var. vai in Vai palm forest in eastern Crete. Look at the leaves how straight looking and that is the more usual "wild" form of the Vai p. theophrastii so you can find too rare droopy leaf forms between the local palms.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Fallacia

[Joannis]

Hi,

I spent the holidays in Turkey this summer, to yalikavak near golkoy... I went to see these mysterious phoenix golkoy. here are some shoots to complete this post.

differents forms :

upright habit :

and more droopy habit :

near the beach :

The lac is behind this palm, but i passed has side, it is surrounded by arundo donax !

[dalmatiansoap]

nice pics!

[greekpalm]

indeed very nice pics, those look even more like dactylofera ! Seems like the more east you go the more date like they look

[Josh76]

Great pics Joannis! Did you manage to get any of the Golkoy seeds?

[edbrown_III]

Theres a book on the genus Phoenix --- I forget the author name --- P. theophrasti is very variable --- sometimes it clumps , sometimes blue sometimes lookls like a Canary Island date palm and sometimes like a littel runt Phoenix. I got about 50 seeds from a Greek Friend in the 80s and this is the the variety I got in my garden.

if you go to the key in the book the only way that P. theophrasti is differentiated from P. dactiylifera is the seed size ---- Obviously commericial dates are 3 times the size of the P. theophrasti.

I cant really add to the cold hardiness discussion beyond what the NC fellow said --- but in 1985, we had something like 8-10F in Jax (depending up where you lived)

A few CI dates on west side and P. dactylifera and P. sylvestris survived this but the crowns were flattened. we didnt see green until July of that year. All the big trees survived (or most of them).

I am only speculating but I suspect P. theophrasti is in the group. We had a 16F event 4 years laters and some in the teens in the years after that. ---these palms are still around through out the city.

My two cents worth to the discussion here.

Best regards

Ed

[Joannis]

The old subjects look more like dactylifera

Yes I collected some seeds but most of them were green, so I don't know if they will germinate

On the other hand, the fruits of golkoy near beach were more ripe...

I collected the seeds of this canary date palm too, because he's surrounded by golkoy date palm...maybe a futur hybrid ?

[Xerarch]

Is the fruit on these any good to eat? Obviously they are smaller than fruit of dactylifera but do they taste any good?

[Fallacia]

OMG!!! My tellings come true about the appearence of p. Golkoy. So beautiful photo gallery Joannis, thank you!!! It is such different from the normal phoenix theophrastii, especially watching it's bunches in appearence are too far away from the greek varieties with the tiny bunches!! These bunches are too longer looking like the p. dactylifera's bunches and the most of the palms in the photos have sparsely leaves giving them mostly a dactylifera look. To stress for one more time, that the rest of the turkish p. theophrastii populations of the Gönlücek Bükü & Armak Bükü area and of Lycia, are not belonging to the golkoy s.sp.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Fallacia

[Joannis]

Xerarch

No, I didn't taste them because dates were not totally ripe. But I suppose they should be more tasty than pure theo because golkoy is certainly a natural hybrid between dacty and theo.

Fallacia
Phoenix golkoy has interesting differences, According to a study, by a turk specialist he has shorter trunk and longer leafs.

The blooms would be also bigger ... those are very beautiful phoenix, however I remain filled with admiration for the theophrastii of preveli Var. In souda beach , they are magnificent, their beauty equal widely CIDP.

At this time all the seeds that i have collected are in seeding...I inform you when they sprout.

[Fallacia]

Ahaaaaaa!!!! I had hear something about the hybridization origin of phoenix Golkoy but i didn't believe it so much, but now i see it's a trueth!! As i said you Cedric at the P.M. i unfortunatelly didn't collect so many prevelis var. seeds from Souda beach because i did a selective collection because of a fruit-seed's disease there is mainly between the phoenix species and other palm species, where some microscopic insects are making tunels into the ground-seeds (all the female palms were all so tall), so i decided to be more carrefull of collecting those seeds as a result the final collection to be small.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Fallacia

[climate change virginia]

wow a phoenix more hardy than a dacty on the east coast I should try this

[Phoenikakias]

On 8/22/2013 at 9:10 PM, Joannis said:

Xerarch

No, I didn't taste them because dates were not totally ripe. But I suppose they should be more tasty than pure theo because golkoy is certainly a natural hybrid between dacty and theo.

I would not be so certain on the natural hybridization...

Edited December 3, 2020 by Phoenikakias