PHOENIX THEOPHRASTII

[alex_7b]

Does anyone grow PHOENIX THEOPHRASTII? Any idea how cold-hardy it is?

[mppalms]

Alex,

I grow it.  We haven't had any significant test of its cold hardiness, but I have read that it is as hardy as, or perhaps slightly hardier than, P. dactylifera.  It will probably survive 15 deg. F and maybe a bit better than that.  It apparently clusters at some point, once so established may be quite a bit hardier.

Jason

[Kris]

Dear Friends  

do you have any stills of this palm ? i will love to see it !

thanks & Love,

Kris  

[PalmGuyWC]

I once owned a container Phoenix theophrastii, a 5 or 10 gal size.  It was so grossly ugly and filled with spines that I gave it away. There is a fairly good sized speciman growing at the U.C. Berkeley Botanical Gardens. It's not something I would want growing in my garden, rare or not. No one said God had to make all palms beautiful.

Dick

[mppalms]

Mine is currently in a 5-gal. pot.  (It looks pretty much like any other Phoenix at this point.)

I have been debating about whether to keep it, as they take up a fair amount of space.  They're also pretty spiny as Dick notes.  

Not the best palm I have by a long shot, but I'm not sure I'm ready to part with it.

Jason

[DoomsDave]

Theophrastii are tough as nails, and thornier than Rudy Guliani on a bad hair day.

They'll take temps, from what I've heard, down to about 15 F, or even lower.

THey're native to Crete and Turkey in the eastern Mediterranean.

Give them LOTS of room, almost like an edible date.

[alex_7b]

http://www.helleniccomserve.com/palmbeach.html

A little history.

[Kathryn]

Here's a picture of one I took in St. Pete in Feb 2002.

[ghar41]

Yes, I'd agree with Dick, this plant usually is really messy with lots of mean spines...

However, when cleaned up is actually quite attractive.  I took this picture some time ago at the Fullerton arboretum.  A cycad enthusiast friend who was with me at the time said it was the most beautiful palm he'd ever seen.

If you like the "blue" cycads, this thing is a palm version of them.

[ghar41]

...cold tolerance is similar to P dactylifera, which it is closely related to....somewhere in the 15- 16 F range.

[Kris]

Dear Kate & Dear Glenn  

thanks a lot for the stills,since i have a few saplings of these

sent to me my Max,but had no idea how beautiful it looks when it grows big !

the leaves look like dwarf phoenix,but the colour and texture looks like Macrozamia Moorie ?

thanks & Love,

Kris  

[edbrown_III]

Sorry, I am a late responder on this topic.  I have about 5 aroudn the yard here are a few pictures. A friend  collected the seeds at the monastery in Vai.

Theres a bit of variation. The only way to differentiate them from P. dactylifera is seed size.

[edbrown_III]

Here is a onther one around the yard

[edbrown_III]

and a 3dr this is real spiny like Dick noted but is bluer

[edbrown_III]

and lastly

[Tad]

ed. could you explain the seed size to dact.? bigger smaller ?? whats the skinny on this?

[edbrown_III]

Kew Bulletin "Revison of Phoenix" --Sasha Barrow tried to sort out classification of the various Phoenix.

They used seeds less than 2 cm to differentiate P. theophrasti from dactylifera in ( Crete) -- Feral P. dactylifera grows there also.

2-4 cm would be P. dactylifera -- I started looking at seeds in commercial dates and they are very long and torpedo like. . The seeds on my trees are much smaller and rounder

I recieved about 20 seeds and evary plant was different blue P. dactylifera like to green robust P. cariensis

But the seeds are small.

Best regards

Ed

[Kris]

this topic is becomming more and more interesting as days go by.since lots of visuals are commng in !

the visaul man is have a field trip....

Love,

Kris.

[PalmGuyWC]

I must admit, cleaned up and kept to one trunk, the blue forms are rather attractive. The one I had was green and started to sucker at an early age. The one at U.C. Berkley Bot. Gardens is also green and a mass of suckers.

I learned the hard way that P. dactilifera should have the suckers removed at an early stage. If not, they become a mass of trunks and spines and are almost impossible to trim.  I finally had to have my P. dactilifera removed because it had gotten out of control and was crowding out other plants and it also was growing to close to a path and was a hazard. Except for the smaller kinds of Phoenix, they look best to me as a "stand alone" palm.

In my climate, and given ample water, Phoenix grow like weeds, and it doesn't take long for that cute little palm to become a prickley monster.

Dick

[simona]

Phoenix theophrasty has been entered as cold hardy to USDA Zone 7b: to -14.9 °C (5 °F)

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/68490/

[Laaz]

I have a few planted here in the yard. They seem to be much hardier than any of the other Phoenix species & have never had any burn. These are from small 1 gal pots three years in the ground now. They sucker like hell & I am always having to trim them. Great palms though.

[NCpalmqueen]

IMHO The cold hardiness rating of 15F only applies if the palm is kept dry in the winter. I've had several in the ground for 3+ years. They get a little leaf burn each winter even when covered. My low last winter was 16F here in NC. I would say that 15 is 'pushing' it, esp. if left uncovered in a wet winter locale. The good thing about them is that they recover very quickly in the Spring and push out lots of leaves during the summer.

Here is one of mine photo taken earlier this year.

[Exotic Life]

Fantastic palms in the pictures...

I want too try this one also at onces, i have got only seedlings now so i must wait

[iamjv]

I am growing a couple of small ones, 1 gal size. Can't wait till they get bigger. Keeping them cleaned up will be a necessity... Here is a couple of pics (from Fairchild) for Kris. Jv

[Kris]

Dear Friends

Here is a beautiful link !

P.Theophrastii

Here is a still of one of the three growing in our roof top garden,that palm sapling was sent to me by M@X a year ago..you can see how fast it has grown in our hot tropical climate.

And my thanks to Cindy,Laaz & JV for those beautiful stills of this palm..

love,

Kris

[Kris]

Dear Friends

Any more new visuals of this palm ?

Lots of love,

Kris

[kristof p]

there is a rumour that P. theophrastii is actualy rarely on the market and that most (larger/older) palms sold as P. theophrastii are in fact P. dactylifera. i dont know what is true about this rumour but P. theophrastii is a protected species(CITES) so seeds and definitely (larger) plants are not so easily obtained...

i grow some seedlings from the Turkish theophrasti (P. thoephrastii var Golkoy), these should grow in much wetter conditions ans see more cold during winter. sometimes this population is flooded during the winter! growth is slow though and it wil take a few years before it wil make some trunk....

[fdrc65]

Hi everybody

I shot some pictures of p. theoprastii in habitat in southern and eastern Crete:

Preveli

thorns

oasis of Vai

happy new year!!

Federico

[John in Andalucia]

there is a rumour that P. theophrastii is actualy rarely on the market and that most (larger/older) palms sold as P. theophrastii are in fact P. dactylifera. i dont know what is true about this rumour but P. theophrastii is a protected species(CITES) so seeds and definitely (larger) plants are not so easily obtained...

i grow some seedlings from the Turkish theophrasti (P. thoephrastii var Golkoy), these should grow in much wetter conditions ans see more cold during winter. sometimes this population is flooded during the winter! growth is slow though and it wil take a few years before it wil make some trunk....

Kristof - I'm not sure if I agree with much of that. P. theophrastii is in the IUCN Red List in the Lower Risk/near threatened category, but I'm fairly certain it is not a CITIES listed species, at least not here. Seeds were readily available from RPS earlier this year - in fact, they are still available. I'm not sure if and why they aren't easily available as mature plants.

[DoomsDave]

I'm not sure if and why they aren't easily available as mature plants.

Walk too close to a large one, and see . . . .

[John in Andalucia]

I'm not sure if and why they aren't easily available as mature plants.

Walk too close to a large one, and see . . . .

Dave,

Do I take it you'd be content to see fewer of them for sale?

[DoomsDave]

I'm not sure if and why they aren't easily available as mature plants.

Walk too close to a large one, and see . . . .

Dave,

Do I take it you'd be content to see fewer of them for sale?

Well, no, not really. Sorry to be snarky . . . .

It's just that back in the day when I was in the business and I had a few large ones in 15-galon pots and garbage cans, and no one wanted to buy them, even if I offered to do bizarre things for their entertainment. On a more serious note, the chief complaint was about the spines, which, as the "theo-nasties'" regular handler I could, alas, readily appreciate.

That said, they're still cool, and I'd hate to see them mongrelized into the wilderness of Phoenix . . . .

[John in Andalucia]

That's a fair point, if you have to be the salesman for one of these, and I haven't seen a full grown one.....yet!

[Davidl]

They don't look to bad to me or at least the one that I have. It seems armed and dangerous but from a distance it looks good.

[iamjv]

Federico, great shots of the palm in it's native habitat! Hope you collected some seeds.... Jv

[Kris]

Nice visuals,gentlemen

but can any one really tell me how to I.D this palm if seen in some place,since i intend growing this palm sent to me by M@x.i have 3 fairly decent sized saplings and i must tell you that i have not seen any transport shock in this variety.it seem to be a touffie..

And dear dave i suppose all the phoenix are spiny and after getting poked by p.sylversteris while trimming iam now fairly accoustomed to this pain..they give.

Any new stills of this palm is always welcome in this thread...

Lots of love,

Kris

[fdrc65]

Federico, great shots of the palm in it's native habitat! Hope you collected some seeds.... Jv

I tried to collect seeds but thorns are really impressing ... it's better ask to RPS

bye

Federico

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Hi all

Phoenix theophrastii is extremely hardy, found the only place in the world where the 2 varieties grow together which is in a deserted bay in turkey, they take 45c and -5c at least, Extreme salt laden winds growing on rocky rubble. Only can get there by boat, came upon the place by accident.

enjoy the photo's

regards

Colin

[iamjv]

Hey Colin, nice shots! BTW is that a fresh or salt water source in the photo??? Jv

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Hi Jv

It is very salty water in the med, easy to float around in. This is not the native habitat, they were planted there by the phoneocians a couple of thousand years ago, the original source was the present day lebanon. this information was given to me by moviecan who lives on Rhodes, and by the way was great host when we visited him. When i said a deserted area and desolate, here is the bay, notice no roads, not much of anything.

regards

Colin