What are you daring in the UK

[Maz]

Hi all, I'm relatively new to the forum but not so new to palms and tropical plants.

I just wanted to get the feel of what other palm enthusiasts are daring in the UK. Are you sticking to the standard cold hardy palm or is anyone else daring the palms that they're forever told can't be or shouldn't be grown in the UK. What have you tried and what luck have you had etc.

Thanks in advance 

[Ben in Norcal]

There are some Juania specimens over there that make me jealous.

And, WELCOME!

[Maz]

Hi Ben, thanks for the warm welcome. 

I had not thought about this palm, very expensive and a challenge... you should not have told me about these.... Nice 

[Josh76]

Welcome to the forum, Maz. There are several threads discussing palms that have been tried in the UK. You can use the search function to find them, but the most lengthy (and controversial) thread was this one:

Apart from Trachycarpus and Chamaerops, many people are growing Jubaea, Butia, Brahea, Chamaedorea and more. You should also check out (if you haven't already) the European Palm Society Forum:

http://www.palmsociety.org.uk/forum/

Whereabouts in the UK are you?

[John in Andalucia]

Hi Maz, Since PalmTalk divided palm growers according to whether or not they were fortunate to own a garden (ref: PALMS IN POTS) - just kidding - I'm hesitant to reply here, as I'm assuming you mean outdoor planting? I grow around 65 species of palms in London, in pots, because it's my fascination with how they perform relative to each other that keeps me adding to the list. Some seedlings are in a humidity chamber and will stay there, others were, and are now in an unheated conservatory. Others were outside for most of the year but are now also indoors.

The following list constitutes my palm collection currently growing indoors and outdoors in pots. Some I have too many of, and others not enough. Some are sacred, whilst others make me think, 'Meh!'. Some grow up before my eyes and others will be long blades of grass it seems, forever. I'm growing around 1000 seedlings, all around 2-3 years old. Since you ask what others dare to try and grow, here is my list. Welcome to the forum, by the way! 

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana
Areca catechu
Areca vestiaria
Arenga pinnata
Asterogyne martiana
Borassodendron machadonis
Brahea armata
Butia paraguayensis
Calyptrocalyx albertisianus
Caryota mitis
Carpoxylon macrospermum
Ceroxylon quindiuense
Chamaedorea alternans
Chamaedorea costaricana
Chamaedorea elatior
Chamaedorea microspadix
Chamaedorea radicalis (trunking)
Chamaerops humilis
Clinosperma macrocarpa
Coccothrinax miraguama 
Cocos nucifera ‘Malayan red dwarf’
Copernicia hospita
Cryosophila warscewiczii
Cyrtostachys renda
Dypsis baronii 'black petiole'
Euterpe edulis 'orange crownshaft'
Howea forsteriana
Hyophorbe lagenicaulis
Johannesteijsmannia altifrons
Laccospadix australasica (clumping)
Laccospadix australasica (single trunk)
Licuala grandis
Licuala mattanensis 'mapu'
Licuala dasyantha
Linospadix monostachya
Livistona decipiens
Livistona alfredii
Livistona mariae
Lytocaryum weddellianum
Parajubaea torallyi var. microcarpa 
Phoenix dactylifera
Phoenix roebelenii
Phoenix theophrasti
Pritchardia viscosa
Pseudophoenix lediniana
Ptychosperma lineare
Ptychosperma sanderianum
Rhopalostylis baueri ‘Norfolk Is.’
Rhopalostylis sapida
Sabal bermudana
Sabal miamiensis
Sabal minor
Satakentia liukiuensis
Syagrus amara
Syagrus romanzoffiana
Syagrus lorenzoniorum
Trachycarpus princeps
Washingtonia robusta

The one's I lost:

Beccariophoenix fenestralis
Calyptrocalyx sp. Sanumb
Cyphophoenix elegans
Dictyosperma album var. conjugatum
Geonoma atrovirens
Heterospathe barfodii
Heterospathe delicatula
Iguanura elegans
Juania australis
Kentiopsis pyriformis
Kerriodoxa elegans
Lemurophoenix halleuxii
Phoenicophorium borsigianum
Pinanga bicolana
Verschaffeltia splendida

Then there's the 18 species which never stood a chance, as the seeds were bad. 

It's general madness from my perspective, really. But it's the challenge that I like.

[Palmfarmer]

Could a Bigger Bismarck work in the mildest spots in the UK? I saw some video on youtube about a guy having a Bismarckia in Ireland

[tim_brissy_13]

3 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Could a Bigger Bismarck work in the mildest spots in the UK? I saw some video on youtube about a guy having a Bismarckia in Ireland

Pretty much no chance. We are on the limit for Bismarckia in Melbourne, Aus and we have significantly more heat than anywhere in the UK all year round. They would almost certainly die a slow death from continuous cool conditions without growing in any meaningful way. 

[konarikcy]

Hi John, very interested in your extensive palm collection. As an ex Londoner living in Cyprus for many years, I find it difficult to find palm trees of any appreciable size in either country. Even with free movement within the EU, palm trees for sale in the UK seem to be restricted to the hardy trachycarpus species for obvious reasons,, so your range must be the largest in the UK. Have you grown them all from seeds and if not, do you have any good sources for purchase.  If you have grown them from seed, do you have a general method for germination as I have just received my first palm seeds to try- dictyosperma album.

[Plantasexoticas]

On 11/12/2020 at 11:40 PM, John in Andalucia said:

Hi Maz, Since PalmTalk divided palm growers according to whether or not they were fortunate to own a garden (ref: PALMS IN POTS) - just kidding - I'm hesitant to reply here, as I'm assuming you mean outdoor planting? I grow around 65 species of palms in London, in pots, because it's my fascination with how they perform relative to each other that keeps me adding to the list. Some seedlings are in a humidity chamber and will stay there, others were, and are now in an unheated conservatory. Others were outside for most of the year but are now also indoors.

The following list constitutes my palm collection currently growing indoors and outdoors in pots. Some I have too many of, and others not enough. Some are sacred, whilst others make me think, 'Meh!'. Some grow up before my eyes and others will be long blades of grass it seems, forever. I'm growing around 1000 seedlings, all around 2-3 years old. Since you ask what others dare to try and grow, here is my list. Welcome to the forum, by the way! 

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana
Areca catechu
Areca vestiaria
Arenga pinnata
Asterogyne martiana
Borassodendron machadonis
Brahea armata
Butia paraguayensis
Calyptrocalyx albertisianus
Caryota mitis
Carpoxylon macrospermum
Ceroxylon quindiuense
Chamaedorea alternans
Chamaedorea costaricana
Chamaedorea elatior
Chamaedorea microspadix
Chamaedorea radicalis (trunking)
Chamaerops humilis
Clinosperma macrocarpa
Coccothrinax miraguama 
Cocos nucifera ‘Malayan red dwarf’
Copernicia hospita
Cryosophila warscewiczii
Cyrtostachys renda
Dypsis baronii 'black petiole'
Euterpe edulis 'orange crownshaft'
Howea forsteriana
Hyophorbe lagenicaulis
Johannesteijsmannia altifrons
Laccospadix australasica (clumping)
Laccospadix australasica (single trunk)
Licuala grandis
Licuala mattanensis 'mapu'
Licuala dasyantha
Linospadix monostachya
Livistona decipiens
Livistona alfredii
Livistona mariae
Lytocaryum weddellianum
Parajubaea torallyi var. microcarpa 
Phoenix dactylifera
Phoenix roebelenii
Phoenix theophrasti
Pritchardia viscosa
Pseudophoenix lediniana
Ptychosperma lineare
Ptychosperma sanderianum
Rhopalostylis baueri ‘Norfolk Is.’
Rhopalostylis sapida
Sabal bermudana
Sabal miamiensis
Sabal minor
Satakentia liukiuensis
Syagrus amara
Syagrus romanzoffiana
Syagrus lorenzoniorum
Trachycarpus princeps
Washingtonia robusta

The one's I lost:

Beccariophoenix fenestralis
Calyptrocalyx sp. Sanumb
Cyphophoenix elegans
Dictyosperma album var. conjugatum
Geonoma atrovirens
Heterospathe barfodii
Heterospathe delicatula
Iguanura elegans
Juania australis
Kentiopsis pyriformis
Kerriodoxa elegans
Lemurophoenix halleuxii
Phoenicophorium borsigianum
Pinanga bicolana
Verschaffeltia splendida

Then there's the 18 species which never stood a chance, as the seeds were bad. 

It's general madness from my perspective, really. But it's the challenge that I like.

Wow!! That’s an impressive collection! Love to see them all ...though I’m ever so slowly catching up to you haha 

[Plantasexoticas]

On 11/10/2020 at 7:35 PM, Maz said:

Hi all, I'm relatively new to the forum but not so new to palms and tropical plants.

I just wanted to get the feel of what other palm enthusiasts are daring in the UK. Are you sticking to the standard cold hardy palm or is anyone else daring the palms that they're forever told can't be or shouldn't be grown in the UK. What have you tried and what luck have you had etc.

Thanks in advance 

Hey maz 

where abouts are you?

[Matthew92]

How are things holding up for you UK growers during this winter? Looks like London is going to get quite a sustained cold period with snow going into next week.

[Jamil Habib]

@John in Andalucia Have you ever grown ParaJubaea or any of it's hybrids. I'm close by London and like you have gone a bit palm crazy

[Jamil Habib]

@Plantasexoticas I have planted some risky ones,  have Queen palms in my garden, and have Bottle and King Palms that will be too big to bring indoors so will need to risk planting them next summer with winter protection. Will also plant a Parajubaea and Beccariophoneix when they are large enough. Which palms are you growing? 

[Axel Amsterdam]

Hi Jamil, can you post a picture of the queens? 

[John in Andalucia]

18 hours ago, Jamil Habib said:

@John in Andalucia Have you ever grown ParaJubaea or any of it's hybrids. I'm close by London and like you have gone a bit palm crazy

I've sprouted a few Parajubaea torallyi var. microcarpa and since sold them all. Quite sought after in the UK, as they're hard to find these days.

I'm near Twickenham Stadium. I've your'e ever nearby you're welcome to drop in. 

(I don't post often these days, so better to send me a PM.)

[Jamil Habib]

On 9/10/2021 at 5:09 PM, Axel Amsterdam said:

Hi Jamil, can you post a picture of the queens? 

Hi Axel,

Here are some pictures of my Queens

[Jamil Habib]

On 9/11/2021 at 10:50 AM, John in Andalucia said:

I've sprouted a few Parajubaea torallyi var. microcarpa and since sold them all. Quite sought after in the UK, as they're hard to find these days.

I'm near Twickenham Stadium. I've your'e ever nearby you're welcome to drop in. 

(I don't post often these days, so better to send me a PM.)

Hi John,

Wow, did you never plant any of your Parajubaea,

I've been after some for a while, but thinking long term I might be better off with a hybrid that has a better chance of surviving our winters!

Thanks for the invite, I might take you up on that if I'm around Twickenham, many moons ago I used to live in Richmond and pass by Ascot for work everyday

Likewise, if you are ever in Chelmsford, please feel free to drop in

 

[Axel Amsterdam]

Thanks Jamil, wow they look stunning in your London garden! Is this their first year in the ground? 

[Jamil Habib]

On 9/10/2021 at 5:09 PM, Axel Amsterdam said:

Hi Jamil, can you post a picture of the queens? 

 

20 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Thanks Jamil, wow they look stunning in your London garden! Is this their first year in the ground? 

Yes, they mean in the ground for 5 months now and the winter wind is my main concern but I plan to wrap the leaves with a frost cover and the crown with a blanket, and a hot water bottle on the base of the palms on the sub zero nights! Only time will tell if they can endure our winters...... it was worth the experiment even if they only survive a few years! 

[sipalms]

54 minutes ago, Jamil Habib said:

 

Yes, they mean in the ground for 5 months now and the winter wind is my main concern but I plan to wrap the leaves with a frost cover and the crown with a blanket, and a hot water bottle on the base of the palms on the sub zero nights! Only time will tell if they can endure our winters...... it was worth the experiment even if they only survive a few years! 

Great experiment, they look like they will be quite sheltered by other buildings.

What are your past low temperatures? What area of London are you in? I'll be following progress closely as I'm growing Queens in a slightly similar climate.

[Jamil Habib]

10 minutes ago, sipalms said:

Great experiment, they look like they will be quite sheltered by other buildings.

What are your past low temperatures? What area of London are you in? I'll be following progress closely as I'm growing Queens in a slightly similar climate.

I’m just north of London in Chelmsford, where are you based?

I go off recent data which suggest a few days in Jan/Feb that can be as low as -3C. During these times I will do what it takes to keep the trees warm, wrapping the leaves and crown, keeping the soil as dry as I can and as warm as I can. My biggest worry is my Washy which is even too big for my ladder to get up to wrap it leaves! 

I have seen lots of large Washy's around the UK so I hope it can survive, I’m still keen on protecting the crown somehow and keeping the soil dry and warm as I can!

Are you taking any measures to protect your palms?

[sipalms]

34 minutes ago, Jamil Habib said:

I’m just north of London in Chelmsford, where are you based?

I go off recent data which suggest a few days in Jan/Feb that can be as low as -3C. During these times I will do what it takes to keep the trees warm, wrapping the leaves and crown, keeping the soil as dry as I can and as warm as I can. My biggest worry is my Washy which is even too big for my ladder to get up to wrap it leaves! 

I have seen lots of large Washy's around the UK so I hope it can survive, I’m still keen on protecting the crown somehow and keeping the soil dry and warm as I can!

Are you taking any measures to protect your palms?

I'm in Christchurch, New Zealand - we have slightly warmer summers, slightly warmer winters, a lot more sunshine hours and a lot less risk of extreme cold. 

I have five queens of various sizes in ground and have never protected them. They grow well but have taken some pretty serious hits this winter with a couple of cold snaps to -4.6 and also some strong cold winds.

Will be interesting to see if anyone can get a Queen established in the UK without any protection. 

[sipalms]

@Jamil Habib how much did your Queens cost, and where did you source them from?

I see that your washingtonia also looks like it's recently been planted out, what about the phoenix caneriensis in the background as well?

[sipalms]

I just noticed this site https://www.chelmervillage-weather.co.uk/wxrecordsalltime.php - looks like there may have been a few Queen-killing weather events in the last decade so fingers crossed you'll be able to make a go. I don't know of any other Queens of your size growing in the UK! @UK_Palms what are your thoughts?

[Jamil Habib]

29 minutes ago, sipalms said:

@Jamil Habib how much did your Queens cost, and where did you source them from?

I see that your washingtonia also looks like it's recently been planted out, what about the phoenix caneriensis in the background as well?

@sipalms They were a gift from my ex boss when I bought the house, his family home is in the south of France and he’s probably sourced them from there. I haven’t been able to find any big sized ones in the UK!

The Washingtonia was bought from a friend who grows palms in the Netherlands, cost me £800. The Phoenix was a house warming present from my brother - no idea how he got hold of it, it just turned up one morning on a massive lorry and they had to take the fence down to get it in! 

Most of my other palms were from the Palm tree Company, Butias, Jubaea’s, Alexander King, Bottle and Howea Fortunei’s! 

What are you currently growing and what are you after? 

 

[Jamil Habib]

7 minutes ago, sipalms said:

I just noticed this site https://www.chelmervillage-weather.co.uk/wxrecordsalltime.php - looks like there may have been a few Queen-killing weather events in the last decade so fingers crossed you'll be able to make a go. I don't know of any other Queens of your size growing in the UK! @UK_Palms what are your thoughts?

Damn there are some scary low temperatures!

My approach is to enjoy them while I have them, will be doing my best to protect them and hope for the best! I’m even considering heating cables and Christmas lights! It’s crazy as at the moment both trees are pushing out new spears, so if this was the start of spring it would be so promising!

[sipalms]

5 minutes ago, Jamil Habib said:

My approach is to enjoy them while I have them, will be doing my best to protect them and hope for the best! I’m even considering heating cables and Christmas lights! It’s crazy as at the moment both trees are pushing out new spears, so if this was the start of spring it would be so promising!

I like your approach. 

You certainly have very generous family and ex-bosses! 

I will get some pictures of my Queens together and upload. I will be following your progress closely with interest.

[Axel Amsterdam]

31 minutes ago, Jamil Habib said:

Damn there are some scary low temperatures!

My approach is to enjoy them while I have them, will be doing my best to protect them and hope for the best! I’m even considering heating cables and Christmas lights! It’s crazy as at the moment both trees are pushing out new spears, so if this was the start of spring it would be so promising!

I have experience growing them in Amsterdam and i know they wont take off easily in spring. London and Amsterdam both have low day temperatures in winter, many days below 10C especially in jan and feb. This causes them to become inactive and to take quite some time to get going again. The temperatures they get now in London are similar to winterdays in most of their habitat. 
 

Nevertheless, if you can protect the fronds during cold winds and frosts you may have a goodlooking palm in spring that can slowly start growing again. For me heating cables around the trunk and growing point easily made themsurvive our frosts which are more severe than the London area experiences. Another advantage is that they stay somewhat active with moderate heating which helps them in spring to react earlier to a warm up. I never protected the fronds as they were too large and the winds here were too strong. They dont like yearly defoliation. 

[Jamil Habib]

4 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

I have experience growing them in Amsterdam and i know they wont take off easily in spring. London and Amsterdam both have low day temperatures in winter, many days below 10C especially in jan and feb. This causes them to become inactive and to take quite some time to get going again. The temperatures they get now in London are similar to winterdays in most of their habitat. 
 

Nevertheless, if you can protect the fronds during cold winds and frosts you may have a goodlooking palm in spring that can slowly start growing again. For me heating cables around the trunk and growing point easily made themsurvive our frosts which are more severe than the London area experiences. Another advantage is that they stay somewhat active with moderate heating which helps them in spring to react earlier to a warm up. I never protected the fronds as they were too large and the winds here were too strong. They dont like yearly defoliation. 

@Axel Amsterdam Thanks for all your great advice. I will source some heating cables, which ones do you use? Did you continue to fertilise them as they were growing slowly throughout winter?

Do you have any pics of your Queens?  

[Axel Amsterdam]

I’m sorry, i meant christmas lights ( no LED). 
unfortunately my queen never recouped a full crown and i gave up after 3 years. London has a better chance but still i would be worried about the fronds and the max capacity of growing 2 fronds in summer. 

i never fertilise palms in the ground. The soil in winter is your least concern, keep the growing point and perhaps the rest of the trunk warm and it will survive. Mine always grew slowly during winter even though the soil was cold and sometimes top frozen. 
my technique was to wrap christmas lights around the trunk upwards and then wrap some bubble plastic around it. If the plastic doesnt closely touch the trunk you will create a ‘chimney’ where warmer air is able to move freely around the growing point. A wooden plank against the trunk will help to keep the plastic (or fleece) at some distance ( 10cm) from the trunk so upward moving warm air is not being blocked from teaching the upper part, more vunerable, of the palm

Edited September 14, 2021 by Axel Amsterdam

[Jamil Habib]

Winter Protection Measures for borderline Palms in our zones:

What winter protection measures would this group recommend? 

I have read a lot about using Christmas lights to wrap the fronds, crown and trunk over the coldest weather in the winter.

1. What kind of lights (brand) are people using? Battery operated or mains?

2. If mains operated how are you getting access to the mains power point? (via an open window?)

3. What is the maximum time the lights should be left wrapped around tree?

4. What other novel methods are people using to keep the cold from killing their outdoor palms?

Cheers,

Jim

 

 

 

[Plantasexoticas]

On 9/14/2021 at 6:14 PM, Jamil Habib said:

Hi Axel,

Here are some pictures of my Queens

Wow! What a gift! 
I know Chelmsford fairly well having used to work there. 
I don’t know anyone who’s kept a queen long term but certainly wish you all the best. 
 

I currently only have a balcony so nothing is planted and everything in pots. Some stay outdoors all year and some come inside for frosts. I’d love to try a queen one day though if I can get some to germinate, 

 

 

[UK_Palms]

The UK mainland is levelling up hard now. Penzance, Cornwall (50N) is probably pushing ahead of Gold Beach and Brookings, Oregon (42N). It will be interesting to see how the two locations compare to Cornwall and southern England in a decade or so from now. London is definitely ahead of places like Portland and Seattle, but will Cornwall and the south coast pull away from southern Oregon and be more akin to northern California? Is the south coast of England already level with northern California? Things are moving quick here now, despite us Brit's being late to the palm growing party. I mean these CIDP's were all planted small about 15 -20 years ago now. Has the potential always been there for us, or is it because of climate change...?

 

Not bad for 50N latitude! Some people would say the south coast of England is fast becoming the 'English Med' now. Dare to dream I say! What else will be growing here in the coming decades...? Bismarkia? Queens? Who knows. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by UK_Palms

[Jamil Habib]

On 9/14/2021 at 8:32 PM, Jamil Habib said:

I go off recent data which suggest a few days in Jan/Feb that can be as low as -3C. During these times I will do what it takes to keep the trees warm, wrapping the leaves and crown, keeping the soil as dry as I can and as warm as I can. My biggest worry is my Washy which is even too big for my ladder to get up to wrap it leaves! 

I have seen lots of large Washy's around the UK so I hope it can survive, I’m still keen on protecting the crown somehow and keeping the soil dry and warm as I can!

Are you taking any measures to protect your palms?

 

[UK_Palms]

@Jamil Habib Hey man, how are your queens getting on near Cambridge? Have you got any post-winter photos to show us? I would love to see how your palms are getting on, including the Washie and CIDP. I didn't bother protecting anything this winter just gone and my Queens aren't looking great. A fair bit of cosmetic damage, although new spears are emerging. This photo was taken 5 minutes ago and the trunk is hidden by the flowers. I know your queens are way more impressive!

Edited April 26, 2022 by UK_Palms

[Jamil Habib]

Hey Buddy,

Luckily with the mild winter we had all my palms have emerged unscathed.
Zero spear pulls on any of my palms, although my Queens and Butias all had their new emerging spears yellow pushed out from the gale winds. They have started greening up with the recent sun we had.

It is easy to underwater Queens, I would suggest yours needs a regular water every other day. Start with a lower volume at first and keep increasing it. 
In a month I would fertilise it and cut off any dried out fronds. 
In the next few weeks I’m going to plant some ParaJubaea hybrids and my first Butyagrus, will be hoping they settle in and then protect them over the winter. My most exciting news is that I have managed to germinate a few Juania Australis so hopefully in a few years they can be planted.

[Axel Amsterdam]

I expected the queens to do well last winter as it was very mild in Amsterdam and even milder in London. The big question is whether your queens will grow more than 2 fronds which was my max here. I watered and even warmed the soil, it never really motored. I believe they take some years to settle in our climates.  

I hope it works out, Keep us posted.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Axel Amsterdam

[Foxpalms]

On 4/27/2022 at 11:05 AM, Jamil Habib said:

Hey Buddy,

Luckily with the mild winter we had all my palms have emerged unscathed.
Zero spear pulls on any of my palms, although my Queens and Butias all had their new emerging spears yellow pushed out from the gale winds. They have started greening up with the recent sun we had.

It is easy to underwater Queens, I would suggest yours needs a regular water every other day. Start with a lower volume at first and keep increasing it. 
In a month I would fertilise it and cut off any dried out fronds. 
In the next few weeks I’m going to plant some ParaJubaea hybrids and my first Butyagrus, will be hoping they settle in and then protect them over the winter. My most exciting news is that I have managed to germinate a few Juania Australis so hopefully in a few years they can be planted.

Do you have any photos of how you're queen palm is doing now? Interested to see how it looks after winter now we are in summer.

[Jamil Habib]

Here are my Queens, both pushing out new fronds.

They seem to push out 2 fronds a year, which considering their size is pretty good.

Hows everyone else’s Queens coming along this summer?