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Palmfarmer

Fastest growing Palms for 9B

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Palmfarmer

What are lets say the top 5 fastest growing palms that will do well in 9b. thanks

 

 

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GottmitAlex

For starters: Washingtonia's

I imagine they are no.1 on the list

 

 

 

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James B

In my climate: 9B/10a cusp 50 miles inland California


1)Washingtonia Filifera

2)Roystonea Regia(with truck loads of water)

3) Archontophoenix Maxima (requires less water than Roystonea but more than Cunninghamiana in my experience)

4) Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana 

5.) Archontophoenix Alexandrae var Beatricea 

Edited by James B
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Ben in Norcal

In terms of going vertical, it's Kings and Queens, assuming you keep them wet.  Both are faster than Washingtonia (which suck anyway.) :D

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Briank
4 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

In terms of going vertical, it's Kings and Queens, assuming you keep them wet.  Both are faster than Washingtonia (which suck anyway.) :D

What’s wrong w Wash Filfera ? Robusta Terrible yes.   But a Fat Trunk Filifera is sweet lol 

 

What about Mule for 9B? 

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Ben in Norcal
Just now, Briank said:

What’s wrong w Wash Filfera ? Robusta Terrible yes.   But a Fat Trunk Filifera is sweet lol 

 

What about Mule for 9B? 

Yeah, filifera are better.  They're everywhere around here though - no room in my yard for something in every other yard!

Mules are much slower than Kings or Queens...at least in terms of going vertical.  Still a good choice!

Now if we're talking hybrids, Jubaea x Syagrus are probably the fastest.

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Fusca
2 minutes ago, Briank said:

What about Mule for 9B?

Good choice - I was going to add Syagrus schizophylla x Syagrus romanzoffiana AKA coco queen

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James B
11 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

In terms of going vertical, it's Kings and Queens, assuming you keep them wet.  Both are faster than Washingtonia (which suck anyway.) :D

Lol. Good call I completely forgot queens which are rockets and out here inland faster than Archontophoenix.

Everyone else on my street has them so I do not have a need for them in my yard.

Edited by James B
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Fusca
24 minutes ago, James B said:

2)Roystonea Regia(with truck loads of water)

3) Archontophoenix Maxima (requires less water than Roystonea but more than Cunninghamiana in my experience)

Only car loads of water for maxima?  (like a Nissan Maxima?)  :lol:

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James B
18 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Only car loads of water for maxima?  (like a Nissan Maxima?)  :lol:

Haha! Mine are pampered for sure. But my most robust has been putting on 3 feet of height every 12 months only eclipsed by the more robust of my 2 Royals which has shot up 40” since May.

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Tyrone

Parajubaea torallyi var torallyi are very quick. From 3 leaf strap leafer to 3 metres tall with bulky base in 5 years. 

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James B
1 minute ago, Tyrone said:

Parajubaea torallyi var torallyi are very quick. From 3 leaf strap leafer to 3 metres tall with bulky base in 5 years. 

Mine has only been in ground for about 4 months. Thanks to DoomsDave! It has been a little on the slow side. But it is in full sun and took many a triple digit day in terms of heat. It might actually be enjoying the cooler weather this week.

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Tyrone
2 minutes ago, James B said:

Mine has only been in ground for about 4 months. Thanks to DoomsDave! It has been a little on the slow side. But it is in full sun and took many a triple digit day in terms of heat. It might actually be enjoying the cooler weather this week.

They do very well in mild cool weather. Mine were all planted in full sun in the middle of January (our summer) in 2015. Once settled in they just got on with it and put out leaf after leaf through all kinds of weather. Unstoppable. 

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CodyORB
8 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Parajubaea torallyi var torallyi are very quick. From 3 leaf strap leafer to 3 metres tall with bulky base in 5 years. 

Do you know if torallyi var microcarpa has the same performance?

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sonoranfans

Sabal causiarum and royals for me.  Archies are quick out of the gate but the causiarum has caught up to them in height and certainly has much more biomass with that fattie trunk.  Royal speed depends on water for sure, even here.  Biomass wise royals are #1, mine has >22' of 28-32" thick trunk and 15-20 huge leaves.  Royals are vulnerable in 9B cold when young, sabal causiarum is not vulnerable to 9B cold.  After both hurricane IRMA(65-75mph 5-6 hrs) and the freeze of 2017, causiarum sustained notably less damage.   

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sonoranfans

I will add bismarckia Nobilis.  IF you have heat and a wet warm season, as in habitat, they will be fastest.  In ten years mine has gone from a 12" seedling to ~ 30' palm overall.  Its about equal to my sabal causiarum in biomass generation.  The trunk is >10' clear though its about 3/4 the thickness.

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Xenon

I heard Acrocomia are rockets if you can deal with the spines 

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CodyORB
5 hours ago, Xenon said:

I heard Acrocomia are rockets if you can deal with the spines 

In the case of Acrocomia crispa, they have a very slow seedling stage and all of a sudden a "whoomph!" as people describe it!

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Tyrone
12 hours ago, CodyORB said:

Do you know if torallyi var microcarpa has the same performance?

I have one that went in the ground about 18 months ago as a one leafer. It is picking up speed but so far it is appearing a bit slower. However the next few years will be telling. Once Parajubaea go pinnate then they get going.

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freakypalmguy

Brahea clara have grown as fast as queens and washies at my place. Bismarkia does well also. The problem with Kings is that they take damage many winters here, and that slows them down for a bit. 

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Merlyn2220

In my yard the hands down winner for speed is Dypsis Pembana. 1.5 years for a cluster in full sun to go from a 3 gallon at 2.5 feet tall to now over 12 feet tall.  2nd place is the fishtail Caryota Mitis at about the same height now, but it started at about 5 feet. Both will survive 9B but will burn in the upper 20s.  Bismarck is pretty fast too, from a 3 gallon big box store to 6 to 8 feet tall and 5 foot diameter fronds in 2 years. I don't have any Kings or Royals around of similar sizes, so I can't compare them.

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GottmitAlex

Btw, I never said washies are pretty. All I affirmed was that they're probably the fastest growing palms (following this thread's topic"). Personally, I decapitate washies: in my case five "Filibustas" have been Kaput. (Washingtonia hybrids, for the purists, if you will) 

As anecdotal evidence, the town of Tecate, Baja, right by the border (9B), has W. robustas 30-40ft tall while at the same time queens are 20ft. Planted by the municipality at the same time as seedlings.  I know, this is not data.

Take it with a grain of salt.  Same with El Cajon, CA.  Born and raised.  Zone 9B as well.

 

16037834353242147255487594544143.jpg

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Palmfarmer
8 hours ago, freakypalmguy said:

Brahea clara have grown as fast as queens and washies at my place. Bismarkia does well also. The problem with Kings is that they take damage many winters here, and that slows them down for a bit. 

Will look into the Brahea clara love the whole Brahea species but most are extremly slow. I got a really small Bismarckia, it is currently fattening up from being shade or greenhouse grown so still slow.  I hear That Dypsis are supposed to be really fast. i got a 2 meter tall clump of lutescens in the ground and it is not doing that much, maybe it is not properly established yet? Queens are starting to pick up speed and i noticed they grow at a realtivly low temprature. The Washies are fast also i noticed that the Filifera is putting out more leafs in winter compared to my Robusta, even though the robusta gets really crazy growth sprouts when it is hot. 

Edited by Palmfarmer
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sonoranfans

It appears obvious that climate is a big factor in what grows fastest.  In some areas the soil and climate may favor queens, in some areas archies are favored.  ANd in the desert washingtonias are quite fast.  There is also how you evaluate growth speed:  1)height?, 2)biomass(thick trunks matter) and then there is the question of fastest over what size range.  For me archontophoenix alexander and maxima and dypsis pembana were the fastest in the first 3-4 years.  Today, 10 years later my bismarkia is a bit taller than either at 30'.  It also dwarfs them in biomass.  Carpentaria are very fast in florida for a few years, but biomass growth rate is not so high.  Royals here are very well acclimated, the crush queens in growth rate, easily double them.  SO your climate matters as to what will grow fast.  Bismarckias need HEAT to be their fastest, as do royals, but in the desert the royals will need a lot more water or they could be stunted.  If I am in the high desert 9B I would select a bunch of palms that would be happy there and then try some experiements that I can coddle with more water.

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Palmfarmer
19 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

It appears obvious that climate is a big factor in what grows fastest.  In some areas the soil and climate may favor queens, in some areas archies are favored.  ANd in the desert washingtonias are quite fast.  There is also how you evaluate growth speed:  1)height?, 2)biomass(thick trunks matter) and then there is the question of fastest over what size range.  For me archontophoenix alexander and maxima and dypsis pembana were the fastest in the first 3-4 years.  Today, 10 years later my bismarkia is a bit taller than either at 30'.  It also dwarfs them in biomass.  Carpentaria are very fast in florida for a few years, but biomass growth rate is not so high.  Royals here are very well acclimated, the crush queens in growth rate, easily double them.  SO your climate matters as to what will grow fast.  Bismarckias need HEAT to be their fastest, as do royals, but in the desert the royals will need a lot more water or they could be stunted.  If I am in the high desert 9B I would select a bunch of palms that would be happy there and then try some experiements that I can coddle with more water.

It basicly only rains once a year here more or less. we have a wet season in the late summe with pretty much rain everyday and some flooding at times, then its completly dry for a year pretty much. So I need to water all the palms even the most drought tolerant. the current palms i have are. Filifera, Robusta, Filibusta, Queens, Robelinis, Butia, livistona chinensis and Bismarckia. All those i believe are foolproof in this climate. My more experimental palms are Majesty, Kentia and Dypsis lutescens. currently fastest are Robusta in really hot wheater and Queens and Filifera in cooler wheater. Keep in mind many of the palms have not been in ground for even a year. 

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sonoranfans
4 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

It basicly only rains once a year here more or less. we have a wet season in the late summe with pretty much rain everyday and some flooding at times, then its completly dry for a year pretty much. So I need to water all the palms even the most drought tolerant. the current palms i have are. Filifera, Robusta, Filibusta, Queens, Robelinis, Butia, livistona chinensis and Bismarckia. All those i believe are foolproof in this climate. My more experimental palms are Majesty, Kentia and Dypsis lutescens. currently fastest are Robusta in really hot wheater and Queens and Filifera in cooler wheater. Keep in mind many of the palms have not been in ground for even a year. 

The queens are the biggest water pigs there.  If you can water them enough, you can grow royals.   Royals can do a dry 9B as these are short cold snaps.  Majesties are very slow, Lutecens bronzes in direct sun is green in shade, more attractive and colorful trunk in shade too.  I'd ask a CA grower about kentia, I have never grown one.   Just give the royal a basin so water is kept near the root zone.  The royals will love a hot wet season.

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Ben in Norcal

I hate talking about zones like they are the key factor in winter survival.  They are just one factor, e.g. royals are a solid 9b plant in Florida, but they aren't even a 10a plant in NorCal. 

Too many other factors are critical - persistently cool, wet, 10a is a death knell for them.

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sonoranfans
50 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I hate talking about zones like they are the key factor in winter survival.  They are just one factor, e.g. royals are a solid 9b plant in Florida, but they aren't even a 10a plant in NorCal. 

Too many other factors are critical - persistently cool, wet, 10a is a death knell for them.

Yes the extended cool season in NorCal and cool summers might be a problem for royals, they want heat.  Ive seen them take 9a arizona with 21-22F and plenty of heat in summer but a short winter season and lots of sun, not much clouds.  Those extended cool seasons favor some palms and they dont favor others.

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Ben in Norcal
10 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

Yes the extended cool season in NorCal and cool summers might be a problem for royals, they want heat.  Ive seen them take 9a arizona with 21-22F and plenty of heat in summer but a short winter season and lots of sun, not much clouds.  Those extended cool seasons favor some palms and they dont favor others.

Summers aren't the problem here - lots of heat with averages around 90.  Multiple weeks of 110+ degrees this year...which sucked!  

It's 3-4 months of cool and wet, despite being 10a, that does them in.

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chad2468emr
On 10/26/2020 at 9:45 PM, Merlyn2220 said:

In my yard the hands down winner for speed is Dypsis Pembana. 1.5 years for a cluster in full sun to go from a 3 gallon at 2.5 feet tall to now over 12 feet tall. 

This makes me want to move my potted clumping D. pembana from my west-facing back patio (gets about 1.5 - 2 hours of direct sun a day, before the trees across the street block it each afternoon, but otherwise is very bright thanks to the 12 foot floor to ceiling screened windows) to my front-facing patio that gets 4-5 hours of bright sun each morning until about 1:00pm. It's been growing SLOW. Didn't have a spear on the biggest part when I got it, and in three months it's only about halfway grown one in. 

I have an A. Cunninghamiana out front now on the sunnier side that also seems to be struggling, having only put out one frond that it's just now opening up in three months. That being said, I had cut it down to just one frond when I bought it because it was not in the best of shape and they were ratty, so maybe it just isn't the healthiest. It's fronds are also that lighter green color, which I've read is a sign they are getting too much sun to be happy short of burning the leaves. It's been fertilized so I really don't think it's any type of deficiency causing that. I might switch those two out and see how they do. I'm definitely not seeing rapid growth in either, and they're supposed to be like rockets. 

2 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I hate talking about zones like they are the key factor in winter survival.  They are just one factor, e.g. royals are a solid 9b plant in Florida, but they aren't even a 10a plant in NorCal. 

Surprised to hear this! Makes me want to get my hands on one. When I lived in SFL, Royals were planted on every. single. street. to the point it made me resent them because they were so common. Now, living outside of Orlando in 9b, I rarely see them except for downtown occasionally. They'e such a beautiful palm that I'd assume they'd be planted all over the here if they coudl do well. Whenever I visit SFL, I actually admire them now because I miss how HUGE and stately they are. 

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Merlyn2220
1 hour ago, chad2468emr said:

This makes me want to move my potted clumping D. pembana from my west-facing back patio (gets about 1.5 - 2 hours of direct sun a day, before the trees across the street block it each afternoon, but otherwise is very bright thanks to the 12 foot floor to ceiling screened windows) to my front-facing patio that gets 4-5 hours of bright sun each morning until about 1:00pm. It's been growing SLOW. Didn't have a spear on the biggest part when I got it, and in three months it's only about halfway grown one in.

I have a bunch of seedlings from PalmatierMeg, and they are in part sun/filtered light all day.  They are still rooting in, so I'm not expecting them to grow much.  I don't know if Pembana need some shade when young, I know Kings prefer some shade when young.  This is my planted D. Pembana, it was about knee height from MB Palms when I planted it in April 2019.  There's an Asian Lemon bamboo on the left, an Encephalartos Ituriensis in front of it, and a pygmy date on the right.

559691356_P1060653DypsisPembana102820.thumb.JPG.108e4861dec0564ab7842074e182fc79.JPG

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chad2468emr
1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I have a bunch of seedlings from PalmatierMeg, and they are in part sun/filtered light all day.  They are still rooting in, so I'm not expecting them to grow much.  I don't know if Pembana need some shade when young, I know Kings prefer some shade when young.  This is my planted D. Pembana, it was about knee height from MB Palms when I planted it in April 2019.  There's an Asian Lemon bamboo on the left, an Encephalartos Ituriensis in front of it, and a pygmy date on the right. 

I got my pembana from MB as well! (The archonto I reference, too.) In the pic below you can see it’s spear (still growing....) pointing out to the left. Really the only growth I’ve seen on it so far. The more I think about it, I might swap its position with the archonto. if yours was planted in that much sun at knee height, I’d certainly think mine could handle 4-5 hours of sun at its current size and would only be better for it. Overall it’s just a disproportionate blob of small suckers growing out of the bottom and only one long frond off the main plant so I’m looking forward to the main plant filling out some more. 

5923F1CC-D628-4D7C-8998-83F9FD358CC5.thumb.jpeg.85ce75cf21a97994dd0639c78d10ca33.jpeg

 

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Palmfarmer

Got another Experimental palm (Bottle palm) I think i will plant it in the garden even though i dont have space long term. just put it close to a cookie cutter palm and remove it if the bottle works in my climate.

IMG_20201028_145528069.jpg

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Merlyn2220
3 hours ago, chad2468emr said:

I got my pembana from MB as well! (The archonto I reference, too.) In the pic below you can see it’s spear (still growing....) pointing out to the left. Really the only growth I’ve seen on it so far. The more I think about it, I might swap its position with the archonto. if yours was planted in that much sun at knee height, I’d certainly think mine could handle 4-5 hours of sun at its current size and would only be better for it. Overall it’s just a disproportionate blob of small suckers growing out of the bottom and only one long frond off the main plant so I’m looking forward to the main plant filling out some more.

Your Pembana is about the same size as the one I bought in December 2018.  I kept it in a pot over the winter and planted it in early April 2019.  It was in mostly full sun over the winter, and did have a small amount of sunburn on our annual May drought & heatwave.  My "blob of suckers" grew a bit slower than the main larger plant, which I guess it to be expected.  My pot had 2 dominant plants and a couple of small ones.  The guy at MB who was helping me grab stuff (not the owner) said that they put 3-4 seedlings per pot, so theoretically you'd end up with 3-4 main trunks and more clusters once they mature a bit.  I think going in full sun this late in the year is fine for it, just make sure you give it water.  :D  Pembana will burn in the upper 20s, so be prepared to bring it in this winter if we get some really cold nights.  But reportedly they went through the 2009 extended 29F freeze at Leu Gardens with no damage.

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Palmfarmer
11 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

The queens are the biggest water pigs there.  If you can water them enough, you can grow royals.   Royals can do a dry 9B as these are short cold snaps.  Majesties are very slow, Lutecens bronzes in direct sun is green in shade, more attractive and colorful trunk in shade too.  I'd ask a CA grower about kentia, I have never grown one.   Just give the royal a basin so water is kept near the root zone.  The royals will love a hot wet season.

Water the 2 queens around 10-20 liters each once per week. one is in amended well draining soil and the other is in clay and sand with medium drainage. Both plants are around 2 meters tall with the fronds. Should i up the watering? I dont want anything to rot. Also will a Majesty do fine being in wet clay 24/7 more or less?

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sonoranfans
12 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Water the 2 queens around 10-20 liters each once per week. one is in amended well draining soil and the other is in clay and sand with medium drainage. Both plants are around 2 meters tall with the fronds. Should i up the watering? I dont want anything to rot. Also will a Majesty do fine being in wet clay 24/7 more or less?

As we are entering the cool seaon with lower temps, ot as much wate is needed, more will be needed when it warms up next year, perhaps double the amount 2x a week at least.  As these grow larger they will definitely need more water.  Clay is your friend in low humidity areas, it retains water better over the long term.  3/4" granite rock on top in root zones also will limit soil drying rates, its more efficient in watering efficiency.  If those queens were big ones, 25' overall, I'd be using about 80-100 liters delivered over 5 hours at night in the hot season 2-3x a week.  that is the future as they grow, water(and fertilizer) demands go up.  You can be more efficient by grouping palms so they share wetted areas.  A triple will use less water than 3 singles separated for example.  Bunch spcies that have the same water preference of course.  In other words washingtonia filifera and queens shouldn't be in the same wet zone.  If it rains that week 2x is fine.  In the cool season cut back to half the frequency, once a week, and in the real cold maybe every 10 days.  Water consumption depends on temperature and humidity.  Small palms dont need that much water, its when they get large.   If water is expensive you should consider less water dependent species.

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Palmfarmer
9 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

As we are entering the cool seaon with lower temps, ot as much wate is needed, more will be needed when it warms up next year, perhaps double the amount 2x a week at least.  As these grow larger they will definitely need more water.  Clay is your friend in low humidity areas, it retains water better over the long term.  3/4" granite rock on top in root zones also will limit soil drying rates, its more efficient in watering efficiency.  If those queens were big ones, 25' overall, I'd be using about 80-100 liters delivered over 5 hours at night in the hot season 2-3x a week.  that is the future as they grow, water(and fertilizer) demands go up.  You can be more efficient by grouping palms so they share wetted areas.  A triple will use less water than 3 singles separated for example.  Bunch spcies that have the same water preference of course.  In other words washingtonia filifera and queens shouldn't be in the same wet zone.  If it rains that week 2x is fine.  In the cool season cut back to half the frequency, once a week, and in the real cold maybe every 10 days.  Water consumption depends on temperature and humidity.  Small palms dont need that much water, its when they get large.   If water is expensive you should consider less water dependent species.

I am letting the soil where the Majesty is growing some time to dry a bit since the soil there has been moist/wet for a very long time. Its currently pushing a frond and a new spear has emerged. We still have pretty nice nice wheater here and the sun is strong year around due to being so far south. Will be interesting to see if it survives the winter. yes i Use a Moisture meter meter now and i found that every 8-9 days is a good time to water. I will continue to minitor this. i guess every 14 days in the winter. I dont pay for the amount of water used here so that is no problem using a lot. 

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