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Jubea Trunking Age


climate change virginia

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I was wondering when does a Jubea start to trunk. Thanks.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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I'll let you know when mine develops a trunk. Since I planted it in the ground a couple years ago it really took off. Hated being in a pot. 

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would you recommend growing it from seed or is the time on that a little long

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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I grew mine from seed supposedly gathered from the higher elevations in chile. I bought a sack of a thousand of the coquitos and got about 10% germination the first year. I didn't try to nick or crack the shells. Just planted them in a seed flat. Don't recall now if more seeds germinated in the following years or not. Then grew them on in an unheated hoop house. Eventually had one lone survivor that I stuck in the ground. Hoping that it might have survived because it was more cold hardy than the others that died. They are slow growing. Grew mine up to a 5-7 gallon size and then it seemed to quit growing even though it didn't look root bound. Thought about bumping it up to a 15-gallon pot but instead decided to put it in the ground and it's now taken off. 

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can you put the link where you got it and should I crack the seeds or not

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Should I put in the ground first thing

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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No, I wouldn't put a seedling or small plant outside in the ground. Established large jubaeas can reportedly survive frosts down to -12 to -15°C, 10 to 5°F which would be Zone 8a. But most sites say they hardy down to about 14F.  Mine's about waist tall (leaves) and it's not been tested in any cold winters yet.  I think others have noticed that they don't like to be root bound at all and really need to be grown in a much bigger size pot than one would think. All I know is that when mine got to about a 5 gallon size it quit growing. I think I bumped it up to a 7 or 10 gallon pot and it barely grew a new frond all summer. So decided to stick it in the ground as I never intended to keep it as a house plant anyhow. But once in the ground it took off especially this summer despite  a severe 2 month drought which ruined the corn and soybeans crops. As to cold hardiness, it hasn't been tested as the past 2 winters were warm. If we get another 2018 blizzard with -5F temps, I'll probably give it some protection. 

I've never tried cracking any palm seeds but you can read up on the method. It's been a long time since I ordered any palm seeds. Had built an 8X24' hoop house and then got carried away one winter  shopping for vegetable seeds and decided to try some  cold hardy tropical seeds too, then ordered more seeds to make the international S/H/phytocertificate worth the while. Anyhow, none of the putative cold hardy palm species were hardy in my area. But did end up with this one lucky jubaea. Will see how it fares. 

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11 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

can you put the link where you got it and should I crack the seeds or not

I grow these from seed.  I just take a gallon freezer bag, dump about 2-4 inches of dirt in the bag, lay the seeds on the soil, put 3-4 inches of soil on top of the seeds, seal the bag and label it, put it on a heat mat, and check weekly after 30 days.  No shell cracking required.  If you want to do the seed thing: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/65387-jubea-chilensis-blue-form-seed/

I have ~85% germination from these seeds.  Report here: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/59464-freshly-cleaned-seed/

If you would like a few already sprouted, I could spare 4 of them.  PM me for details.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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8 minutes ago, CodyORB said:

The blogger “Married to Plants” bought a 15 year old one that had around 1 foot of trunk, so I would guess about 12 or so years to start forming a vertical trunk: http://www.marriedtoplants.com/palms/transplanting-jubaea-chilensis-chilean-wine-palm/

WOW thats a huge palm tree

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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20 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

20 years to get a 1' trunk from seed if everything goes well.

20 YEARS now thats a long time im gonna be 33 by then just for it to be the size of a sabal minor

Edited by climate change virginia

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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On 10/24/2020 at 12:43 AM, ESVA said:

No, I wouldn't put a seedling or small plant outside in the ground. Established large jubaeas can reportedly survive frosts down to -12 to -15°C, 10 to 5°F which would be Zone 8a. But most sites say they hardy down to about 14F.  Mine's about waist tall (leaves) and it's not been tested in any cold winters yet.  I think others have noticed that they don't like to be root bound at all and really need to be grown in a much bigger size pot than one would think. All I know is that when mine got to about a 5 gallon size it quit growing. I think I bumped it up to a 7 or 10 gallon pot and it barely grew a new frond all summer. So decided to stick it in the ground as I never intended to keep it as a house plant anyhow. But once in the ground it took off especially this summer despite  a severe 2 month drought which ruined the corn and soybeans crops. As to cold hardiness, it hasn't been tested as the past 2 winters were warm. If we get another 2018 blizzard with -5F temps, I'll probably give it some protection. 

I've never tried cracking any palm seeds but you can read up on the method. It's been a long time since I ordered any palm seeds. Had built an 8X24' hoop house and then got carried away one winter  shopping for vegetable seeds and decided to try some  cold hardy tropical seeds too, then ordered more seeds to make the international S/H/phytocertificate worth the while. Anyhow, none of the putative cold hardy palm species were hardy in my area. But did end up with this one lucky jubaea. Will see how it fares. 

I dont know why everyone is talkig about a 2018 blizzard I dont remember that the only one I remember is the one from the polar vortex from 2013-2014 and im on dc east coast that was a warm winter for me.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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January 2018 brought an advective freeze down my way.   We got down to 28F in my neighborhood and our airport recorded 25F.

Here are some stats from Ronald Reagan Airport during that same month:

image.thumb.png.0debce966e9ea19fd13c9b1b839f8202.png

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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1 hour ago, climate change virginia said:

I dont know why everyone is talkig about a 2018 blizzard I dont remember that the only one I remember is the one from the polar vortex from 2013-2014 and im on dc east coast that was a warm winter for me.

Jan 2018 was pretty darn cold here in Wilmington NC.  We had snow and ice on the roads for a week and small ponds ended up frozen enough to walk on.   I lost nearly all of my pinnate palms (RIP Jubaea hybrids), all immature Butia were killed,  as well as mature seeding Butia.  Only one completely defoliated Butia and my protected mules survived.  All Trachys had spear pull, and even trunked Sabals had damaged fronds.  A Trunked Washingtonia "fillabusta".... toast.  Sago "palms" (cycads) all died to the ground, a few came back from small pups.  Of course the needle palms and Sabal minor laughed it off with no signs of damage. 

I can't imagine it was warmer and more hospitable to palms in VA that week.

5a52b56fcfb6f_IMAG0509(2).thumb.jpg.141023766bba0398ab8a996a0ceccde3.jpg

Jan 2018, SE NC.   Looks pretty, palms didn't think so.   Also I forgot how many trees I had before Hurricane Florence...

IMAG0567.thumb.jpg.ca94443b06d62bf9017ca6b6fea2c51b.jpg

The aftermath, RIP Jubaea x Butia F3.

 

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15 minutes ago, Joe NC said:

Jan 2018 was pretty darn cold here in Wilmington NC.  We had snow and ice on the roads for a week and small ponds ended up frozen enough to walk on.   I lost nearly all of my pinnate palms (RIP Jubaea hybrids), all immature Butia were killed,  as well as mature seeding Butia.  Only one completely defoliated Butia and my protected mules survived.  All Trachys had spear pull, and even trunked Sabals had damaged fronds.  A Trunked Washingtonia "fillabusta".... toast.  Sago "palms" (cycads) all died to the ground, a few came back from small pups.  Of course the needle palms and Sabal minor laughed it off with no signs of damage. 

I can't imagine it was warmer and more hospitable to palms in VA that week.

5a52b56fcfb6f_IMAG0509(2).thumb.jpg.141023766bba0398ab8a996a0ceccde3.jpg

Jan 2018, SE NC.   Looks pretty, palms didn't think so.   Also I forgot how many trees I had before Hurricane Florence...

IMAG0567.thumb.jpg.ca94443b06d62bf9017ca6b6fea2c51b.jpg

The aftermath, RIP Jubaea x Butia F3.

 

poor palms also you can check time and date to see dc temps from the past we didnt get a polar vortex it was a warm winter we didnt even get much ice on the lake I live near.

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Most snowstorms follow the NE corridor from DC north to NY and often into New England. Usually the snow/rainfall line is somewhere on the DelMarVa peninsula north of Salisbury, MD. Very rarely a snowstorm will hit the Deep South From Atlanta GA northwards and get pushed out to sea before reaching the NE snow corridor. 

 

We got the 2013/2014 blizzard here on Virginia's Eastern Shore and were snowed in for a week because of the snow drifts which the snow plows couldn't break through. I remember the plows working outside my house at midnight and thinking I'd be able to finally get to the grocery stores. But then the plow gave up and turned around. We had neck deep snow on the highway for 3 miles north and 3 miles south of my house. Neighbor boy next door tried to make it into town using a jacked up pickup but got stuck, then fined $250 for blocking the snow plows trying to clear the roads. They pushed his truck out of the way into a 12-foot deep drift.  I thought about buying some snowshoes and mukluks but figured by the time they arrived the snow would be gone.

 

Then we got hit by the 2017 blizzard with snow drifts. This time I went and ordered a pair of military surplus knee-high USAF mukluks rated to -50 below zero. Figured I'd never get to wear them in my lifetime. Then we got hit by the 2018 blizzard with massive snow drifts where those on the secondary roads were snowed in for a month. Some of the farmers used their tractors to get to the grocery stores taking shortcuts across the fields and woods instead of the impassable roads. And I got to finally use my mukluks walking 2 miles through hip deep snow to get to work and make sure the plumbing hadn't frozen/busted. On the way back, a neighboring farmer gave me a lift in his sweet tractor. He was pulling out dozens of  vehicles that had slid off a treacherously banked curve into a snow drift. 

 

BTW, IIRC, I bought my jubaea seeds from Tobias Spanner's RarePalmSeeds site. Since he's in Germany, there's the cost of international shipping and a required USDA phytosantuary certificate to factor in. That might've been the reason I ordered a whole sack of a thousand just to make the S/H/phyto worth it.  I just soaked my seeds for a few days in a tub till  they sank, then planted in a seed flat in my hoop house. If I were trying to germinate jubaea again, I think I'd try the baggie method with temperature cycling as recommended by TexasColdHardyPalms as other closely related species reportedly respond well to the temperature cycling. 

Anyhow, Tobias estimates 30 years for jubaea to trunk (Ugh!) but gives a generous cold hardy estimate of 3F (Yeah!). I think there's supposed to be a large specimen growing in southwest germany so that gives me some hope that mine might survive though I'll probably not live long enough to see it all its glory. A mistake too many gardeners make is to plant fast growing species for immediate effect, neglecting to plant slower growing species for future generations to enjoy. 

http://www.palmsociety.org/members/english/chamaerops/004/004-08.shtml

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8 minutes ago, climate change virginia said:

poor palms also you can check time and date to see dc temps from the past we didnt get a polar vortex it was a warm winter we didnt even get much ice on the lake I live near.

Looks like Kinzyjr did in the post just above mine. 

 

Also I just compared DC, Regan Airport (maybe moderated by the Potomac?) and Wilmington NC (airport) weather history stats for that week.

DC-  max=35F, ave=19.7F, min=11F

Wilm NC- max=39F, ave=26.7f, min=13F

Not too much difference between the max and mins that week in both locations, even with one being 300 miles south of the other. 

 

I think the real nail in the coffin for my palms that week here was how wet it was before the freeze and how long it was really cold and below freezing.  You can see that in the average temp of 26.7 for the week (which is crazy for here).

So it is not only how cold it gets, but it is how often and the the duration of time it is below freezing that also limits what palms can survive going through.

 

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@Joe NC So sad losing all those palms. The muleplam looks small enough to have tried to protect. Were you trying to test its cold hardiness or just had too many palms to worry about protecting through the freak event? 

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1 minute ago, ESVA said:

@Joe NC So sad losing all those palms. The muleplam looks small enough to have tried to protect. Were you trying to test its cold hardiness or just had too many palms to worry about protecting through the freak event? 

I ran out of time and protection materials, I had just got back into town from visiting family for the holidays. and it was a mad rush to cover plants.  I prioritized my 3 mules (BxS, and (BxJ)xS) and wrapped them all with lights.  I tried with the beast Washy, but too much blood was spilled on the brutal spines/hooks and I did a bad rush job.  The tarp blew open and it was toast.  The Jubaea hybrids (JxB F3, and BxJ F?) I did put tarps/sheets over to try and keep them dry-ish before the freezing rain started, but they didn't have any lights for heat.  That was not enough.  The large and small Butia were all on thier own and did not fare well... 

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2 minutes ago, Joe NC said:

I ran out of time and protection materials, I had just got back into town from visiting family for the holidays. and it was a mad rush to cover plants.  I prioritized my 3 mules (BxS, and (BxJ)xS) and wrapped them all with lights.  I tried with the beast Washy, but too much blood was spilled on the brutal spines/hooks and I did a bad rush job.  The tarp blew open and it was toast.  The Jubaea hybrids (JxB F3, and BxJ F?) I did put tarps/sheets over to try and keep them dry-ish before the freezing rain started, but they didn't have any lights for heat.  That was not enough.  The large and small Butia were all on thier own and did not fare well... 

Did any of your Jubaea or Butia hybrids survive (with protection or not)?  Wondering if freezing rain and wet, heavy snow is worse than dry  snow. 

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Just now, ESVA said:

Did any of your Jubaea or Butia hybrids survive (with protection or not)?  Wondering if freezing rain and wet, heavy snow is worse than dry  snow. 

 BxS and BJxS survived with protection. 

It seems like there is always rain that turns to freezing precip here before the worst events.

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9 minutes ago, Joe NC said:

 BxS and BJxS survived with protection. 

It seems like there is always rain that turns to freezing precip here before the worst events.

do you have pure jubaea?

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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11 minutes ago, climate change virginia said:

do you have pure jubaea?

I've tried (JxB)xJ.

It was a champ when I kept it in a pot for a couple years.   I planted it out in the ground, and after one summer wet spell it was toast.  Just immediatly rotted all roots off.

WP_20160513_006.thumb.jpg.803a056f1dde56d0c3ea53d9ec38f7d7.jpg

 Probably should have let it spend a little more time in a pot, but I wanted to set it free into the ground... lesson leared.

Edited by Joe NC
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4 minutes ago, Joe NC said:

I've tried (JxB)xJ.

It was a champ when I kept it in a pot for a couple years.   I planted it out in the ground, and after one summer wet spell it was toast.  Just immediatly rotted all roots off.

WP_20160513_006.thumb.jpg.803a056f1dde56d0c3ea53d9ec38f7d7.jpg

 Probably should have let it spend a little more time in a pot, but I wanted to set it free into the ground... lesson leared.

oh that sucks but you could have put a plastic box above it to make sure it doesn't get wet and rot I think that would work but I don't know. My date palms are under an overhang on my deck and not a single one rotted in this wet humid summer

Edited by climate change virginia

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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1 minute ago, climate change virginia said:

oh that sucks but you could have put a plastic box above it to make sure it doesn't get wet and rot I think that would work but I don't know.

Potted, it showed no sign of being fussy about being wet.  It was exposed to a couple really wet summers.  I thought for sure it would handle in ground, no problem.  One day it was fine, the next day it was a bit yellow, the next day half of the emerging leaves pulled.

I have a Butia Yatay x Jubaea, and a Jubaea x Butia Yatay one deck in pots.  I haven't given up on Jubaea hybrids yet....

This time I will make a significant mound of soil when I plant them, to give them the best drainiage.  However they still need a few more years babied in pots before I'm brave enough to set them free. 

My rule of thumb is:  Kill something 3 times before I give up on growing. 

I'm on my second and thirds of ALOT of plants.

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18 minutes ago, Joe NC said:

Potted, it showed no sign of being fussy about being wet.  It was exposed to a couple really wet summers.  I thought for sure it would handle in ground, no problem.  One day it was fine, the next day it was a bit yellow, the next day half of the emerging leaves pulled.

I have a Butia Yatay x Jubaea, and a Jubaea x Butia Yatay one deck in pots.  I haven't given up on Jubaea hybrids yet....

This time I will make a significant mound of soil when I plant them, to give them the best drainiage.  However they still need a few more years babied in pots before I'm brave enough to set them free. 

My rule of thumb is:  Kill something 3 times before I give up on growing. 

I'm on my second and thirds of ALOT of plants.

I think clay doesn't drain well try putting a tarp over the roots

Edited by climate change virginia

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Jubaea is supposed to be more tolerant of wet conditions than Butia. I've got a Jubaea that's been outside 2 years now in a hot, sunny spot with ordinary soil. Not soggy, not bone dry. Guess it's about a 15-gallon size (waiste tall) .

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3 hours ago, Joe NC said:

My rule of thumb is:  Kill something 3 times before I give up on growing. 

My policy, too. Three strikes and they're out.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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11 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

20 YEARS now thats a long time im gonna be 33 by then just for it to be the size of a sabal minor

Wait till you hear about Coccothrinax :D:D:D 

I'm growing a few right now (still germinating), along with similarly snail-pased Copernicia macroglossa seedling :D

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7 minutes ago, CodyORB said:

Wait till you hear about Coccothrinax :D:D:D 

I'm growing a few right now (still germinating), along with similarly snail-pased Copernicia macroglossa seedling :D

that plant is 7 years old? im gonna stick to jubaea

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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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4 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

My policy, too. Three strikes and they're out.

2 of my date palms rotted this summer and it was raining like crazy rip they were nice when they were alive but the other 10 are fine the ones I planted outside.....prob gonna die this winter if they dont I'll be amazed

Edited by climate change virginia

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Not gonna lie a jubaea kinda looks like an oversized bottle palm....its perfect!

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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15 yrs old, neglected, no fertilizer and very little water in a low rainfall area. Size 10 flip flop at base for scale. It’s still fattening so I wouldn’t call it trunking yet.

E4629BE6-7B14-4871-8792-94CE8FB4CC81.thumb.jpeg.ee9b42fee57f6fdd0285e555cbf231e3.jpeg

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Matt in Temecula, CA

Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and ocean

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This station is situated on the Potomac and directly due south of downtown. The numbers show why arborescent palms other than Trachycarpus fortunei are not planted. 6F and 5F in successive winters will kill Butia, Washingtonia, and probably even Sabal palmetto.  The second table is meant to give an indication of the duration of cold. washingtondc.JPG.42b974bb6774fa2695c3f8b66ab0eeaf.JPG

 

duration.JPG.321ab62da8209685587b6ddcc73fae0f.JPG

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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9 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Jubaea won't survive 5f anywhere east of big spring Texas. 

lowest we got this decade is 7 but warmed right back up

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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I'm really happy with how mine fared this summer. Double in size. New leaves were twice as long/wide as last summer's. Guess I should look into getting materials ready to protect it should we get another polar vortex. 

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On 10/27/2020 at 8:15 AM, climate change virginia said:

lowest we got this decade is 7 but warmed right back up

Even if that is true you have a lot to learn that there is a more to growing borderline plants than just a single low number on a weather report.  As it's been said here before- your refrigerator is zone 10b but that doesnt mean you can grow a coconut in there. 

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19 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Even if that is true you have a lot to learn that there is a more to growing borderline plants than just a single low number on a weather report.  As it's been said here before- your refrigerator is zone 10b but that doesnt mean you can grow a coconut in there. 

my fridge is cold on top but i see what your saying

Edited by climate change virginia

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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