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JLM

Livistona chinensis Questions

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JLM

I have seen a couple of these in the neighborhood, and they look really nice! They have the droopy tips, it has grown on me. Now i have some questions, because one of these palms has 4-5 stalks full of seeds. How slow do these grow? How long do they stay in their seedling stage? What do ripe seeds look like, not the fruit. How cold hardy are these based off of your experience? Do the seeds germinate easily?

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Pal Meir

Two seedlings one year after germination:

624859957_Livistonachinensissubglobosa1981-07.thumb.jpg.92bea16fd0da3ed11aa3b8f2967bf69f.jpg

 

The bigger seedling 8 years later:

1766480720_Livistonachinensis1989-09-07.thumb.jpg.5c3d8a406cf63260e95bded4a2c7e82e.jpg

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Frond-friend42

I germinated some. Seems like they are easy. They grow like weeds on Kauai where I visit sometimes.  I picked some up off a street in Costa Rica. 

Mine look like Pal's first pic.

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Pal Meir

I found another photo of the bigger seedling when it was two years old:

179190318_Livistonachinensis82N08-0131.thumb.jpg.03aa73e0c73d5fc25d46bd5920779630.jpg

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JLM

Looks pretty slow! I could probably deal with that though. Do you know how cold hardy they are based off of experience?

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Xenon

The seeds germinate like weeds, I have a ton of volunteers growing under their mother. Should be plenty hardy for you though the leaves start to burn in the low 20s and more heavy damage occurs at 17-18F. The bud is hardy at least into the low teens. 

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JLM

What does the ripe seed look like once the fruit has been cleaned off. I got some green fruit, but the seeds were just slightly smaller than the average size, they had a tanish color to them, is this the right look?

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Palmfarmer
4 hours ago, JLM said:

Looks pretty slow! I could probably deal with that though. Do you know how cold hardy they are based off of experience?

You have to remember that Pal Meir is growing in a greenhouse or inside a house during winter on top of that the palms is in a pot. that will make the growth a ton slower.  Maybe the Livestona he grew in 8 years would take 4-5 being planted outside. ( rough estimate) 

Edited by Palmfarmer
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Jim in Los Altos

If you’re hoping for big trunked specimens, you’ll need patience. Mine are 25 years old from seed. They’re big bodacious palms and growing at a high rate of speed now but the seedling/small palm stage is one that lasts many years. 

5B91FB30-529A-4F2C-9690-199D01C0B04F.jpeg.7ed5a428b62bd8371c62f5b8822b19d6.jpeg

14B1189D-64EE-4CBC-BDD1-E69E63461D71.thumb.jpeg.3b794b599bfae4a3c3ddb1de87c1414c.jpeg

7F3354F1-291C-4F8C-A25D-0666AAF61B7F.thumb.png.9c0b8d98d726d7536321a750bfb7fa0b.png

0342208F-4B11-46DF-87A3-0659A8C69E34.thumb.jpeg.25644452d6d8ce3f1ae4801e02ead27a.jpeg

C795BA2A-29DA-475E-BB95-E3F643562264.thumb.jpeg.fdb07894b69a871cccb196e813c0ede6.jpeg

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Fusca
8 hours ago, JLM said:

What does the ripe seed look like once the fruit has been cleaned off. I got some green fruit, but the seeds were just slightly smaller than the average size, they had a tanish color to them, is this the right look?

Sounds right - whitish to light tan.

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redant

The fruit is a beautiful blueish green when ripe, they germinate like weeds.

Livistona-chinensis-J-exotic-rare-chinese-fan-palm-_57.jpg

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palmfriend

Hi,

I think it depends where you are (climatically) and under what kind of conditions (eg. fulls sun, deep shade etc.) you are trying to grow them.

We have probably thousands of them on this island but there significant differences depending on their location. There are planted ones on the 

shore with almost no process at all (I pass them every day on my way to work for the last eight years) and there are others in the wild (deep shade, 

swampy areas etc.) or even in my garden which are almost rivaling my super-fast washies. So, it is kind of hard to say - on one hand they seem to be

a very robust species (in general) but I think there are some marginal (but important) points that make the difference... I haven't found out yet but 

I am on it. :greenthumb:

Here some visuals:

lc001.thumb.jpg.f8b93ade273ce0b33d3acd6d074cf59b.jpg

Young L. chinensis in the wild...

lc002.thumb.jpg.2c98036dec094812c2fe963fa31688b9.jpg

This image shows the difference between a shade and full sun grown pretty well I think. 

Finally...

lv003.thumb.jpg.70e0f185673c74ffe05a909237b0b899.jpg

an image of a very young (four years old) one in partial shade in the back yard. 

Their growing pattern seem to be too different (depending on their location/situation) to make a 

general statement but definitely a very interesting and rewarding species if you have the patience.

Best regards from Okinawa -

Lars

 

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JLM

Thank you all for the information! Much appreciated! I grabbed 4 fruits off the tree, i cleaned 2 of them off and they are now soaking. Maybe if this is how this works, i will let the other 2 fruits ripen by themselves before cleaning them off and starting. Hopefully these germinate!

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Xenon
13 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

If you’re hoping for big trunked specimens, you’ll need patience. Mine are 25 years old from seed. They’re big bodacious palms and growing at a high rate of speed now but the seedling/small palm stage is one that lasts many years. 

Growth is a lot faster in my climate (and likely Florida as well).  Mine are 20 years old with 10-12 ft of clear trunk. They haven't seen supplemental water or fertilizer in over a decade and have been shaded out by an oak tree for years so they should probably be quite a bit taller. Definitely not the slowest palm around in a hot subtropical climate. 

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JLM

What temp do these need to be at to germinate? Im hoping that maybe these can be germinated before the end of the growing season. The growing season will come to an end possibly within the next couple of weeks. A strong cold front is set to come through late next week, and if the cold air reaches far enough south, i could possibly see some light frost.

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Jim in Los Altos
4 hours ago, Xenon said:

Growth is a lot faster in my climate (and likely Florida as well).  Mine are 20 years old with 10-12 ft of clear trunk. They haven't seen supplemental water or fertilizer in over a decade and have been shaded out by an oak tree for years so they should probably be quite a bit taller. Definitely not the slowest palm around in a hot subtropical climate. 

True, I imagine in my cooler climate, they’re quite a bit slower.

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Tyrone
4 hours ago, JLM said:

What temp do these need to be at to germinate? Im hoping that maybe these can be germinated before the end of the growing season. The growing season will come to an end possibly within the next couple of weeks. A strong cold front is set to come through late next week, and if the cold air reaches far enough south, i could possibly see some light frost.

25-30C temps will see them come up quickly. Protect the seedlings for 2 or 3 years in your climate and you should have success. Where I am they are super hardy. I’ve seen a neg 2.5C (27F) event here and they didn’t notice it. I like them growing in shade to semi shade where the petioles stretch and the fan leaves get large. Shady wind protected areas create the best look I’ve found. They do love water but will take much less. My property here is swampy clay peat with a winter water course that often floods its banks and they are as happy as a pig in mud here.

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JLM
1 minute ago, Tyrone said:

25-30C temps will see them come up quickly. Protect the seedlings for 2 or 3 years in your climate and you should have success. Where I am they are super hardy. I’ve seen a neg 2.5C (27F) event here and they didn’t notice it. I like them growing in shade to semi shade where the petioles stretch and the fan leaves get large. Shady wind protected areas create the best look I’ve found. They do love water but will take much less. My property here is swampy clay peat with a winter water course that often floods its banks and they are as happy as a pig in mud here.

I think ive got a really good spot for them. There is an area under a crape myrtle that is one of the only canopies in my yard. It shades over really well during summer, this area is wind protected to a certain extent. It gets morning sun during summer and afternoon sun during fall and winter. The thing is though, this area likes to flood aswell. I could try one in that spot, and i could try another one somewhere else, that is providing all 4 germinate and make it.

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Reyes Vargas

A lot of people say that these palm seeds germinate like weeds.  I have a tree that has been producing seeds for the last 3-4 year's and every year I plant some with absolutely no luck.  Am I such a brown thumb that I can't even germinate these seeds?  Is there any advice that anyone can give me to grow these.  They are not the prettiest or rarest in the world but i love them.  That's why I was so excited when my palm started to seed.  Thanks guys any help much appreciated.

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Fusca

Make sure the fruits are ripe and have a bluish-black color.  I've tried germinating seeds from green fruits but nothing came up.  Clean the fruit off (very easy to do) to reveal the tan colored seed.  I usually soak them in warm water overnight before sowing.  If they float after soaking they're probably no good.  I really like them too - especially when they are young!  Direct sowing in containers or in a baggie works for me.  A little bottom heat this time of year helps.

Jon

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Reyes Vargas
16 hours ago, Fusca said:

Make sure the fruits are ripe and have a bluish-black color.  I've tried germinating seeds from green fruits but nothing came up.  Clean the fruit off (very easy to do) to reveal the tan colored seed.  I usually soak them in warm water overnight before sowing.  If they float after soaking they're probably no good.  I really like them too - especially when they are young!  Direct sowing in containers or in a baggie works for me.  A little bottom heat this time of year helps.

Jon

Thanks for the advice.  When I collected the seeds they were blue black so they were ripe.  I tried the community pot but when nothing came up I dug the seeds out and they were all moldy.  I also tried the baggie method and the same problem mold.  Do you know how well these seeds store?  How long can I wait after collecting to plant them before they lose viability?  Thanks.

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Fusca
47 minutes ago, Reyes Vargas said:

Thanks for the advice.  When I collected the seeds they were blue black so they were ripe.  I tried the community pot but when nothing came up I dug the seeds out and they were all moldy.  I also tried the baggie method and the same problem mold.  Do you know how well these seeds store?  How long can I wait after collecting to plant them before they lose viability?  Thanks.

I'm not sure how long the seeds would retain viability but I would think that it would be some months.  Mold would be more likely if the seeds weren't fully cleaned and/or too much moisture.  In ziplock baggies I use sphagnum moss that has been wetted and wrung out until no more water drips out.  Moist but not wet.  Community pot medium should drain well and not be cheap potting soil that gets mucky and stays wet.  Sometimes they can take several months to germinate - it just takes patience.  They're not going to pop up in a week or two like Washingtonia seeds.

Jon

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Reyes Vargas
27 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I'm not sure how long the seeds would retain viability but I would think that it would be some months.  Mold would be more likely if the seeds weren't fully cleaned and/or too much moisture.  In ziplock baggies I use sphagnum moss that has been wetted and wrung out until no more water drips out.  Moist but not wet.  Community pot medium should drain well and not be cheap potting soil that gets mucky and stays wet.  Sometimes they can take several months to germinate - it just takes patience.  They're not going to pop up in a week or two like Washingtonia seeds.

Jon

Thank you for all your help.  I will try the sphagnum moss in the baggie see if that works for me.

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Fusca
3 hours ago, Reyes Vargas said:

Thank you for all your help.  I will try the sphagnum moss in the baggie see if that works for me.

I hope you have better luck!  I didn't think to mention that Livistonas can be either "functionally dioecious" or hermaphroditic so your tree might not produce viable seed every year.  Cutting one open should reveal a white embryo if it's viable.

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Reyes Vargas
1 hour ago, Fusca said:

I hope you have better luck!  I didn't think to mention that Livistonas can be either "functionally dioecious" or hermaphroditic so your tree might not produce viable seed every year.  Cutting one open should reveal a white embryo if it's viable.

Just opened two seeds up and they look white so hope they are viable.  Fingers crossed.

20201104_142546.jpg

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