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climate change virginia

HELP! Cold hardy alternative to royal, queen,cocos palm zone 8a

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climate change virginia
On 10/27/2020 at 7:25 PM, ESVA said:

Correction -- I'm 20 miles south of the VA/MD border but 80 miles north of Va Beach (both driving distances)

so in richmond?

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ESVA
56 minutes ago, climate change virginia said:

so in richmond?

No, on the Eastern Shore. The line between Zone 7b and 8a is roughly the border between Worcester (MD) and Accomack (VA) counties. 

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climate change virginia
6 minutes ago, ESVA said:

No, on the Eastern Shore. The line between Zone 7b and 8a is roughly the border between Worcester (MD) and Accomack (VA) counties. 

oh ok by hampton road?

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ESVA

Nope, near the Accomack county seat of Accomac, 80 miles north of Virginia Beach on the eastern side of the Chesapeake Bay.  We're noticeably colder than Cape Charles and Virginia Beach at the mouth of the Chesapeake. We're only 20 miles from Zone 7b but 80 miles from Virginia Beach's Zone 8a. Lots of spanish moss grows in First Landing State Park in Va Beach, but none over on this side of the bay other than possibly a remnant in some woods down near Eastville that I've never personally seen myself. Nobody here grows sabal palmettos other than some hotels on Chincoteague Island (Zone 7b), but they wrap the trunks and crown and the palms look like crap till they recover in mid-summer.  Have noticed one sabal minor planted at a B&B in Cape Charles but otherwise haven't seen any palms in Cape Charles, but might be some T. fortunei. We're colder up here than in Cape Charles -- when trees have dropped their leaves and flower beds have been cut down by frost, flowers will still be blooming down in Cape Charles. 

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climate change virginia
24 minutes ago, ESVA said:

Nope, near the Accomack county seat of Accomac, 80 miles north of Virginia Beach on the eastern side of the Chesapeake Bay.  We're noticeably colder than Cape Charles and Virginia Beach at the mouth of the Chesapeake. We're only 20 miles from Zone 7b but 80 miles from Virginia Beach's Zone 8a. Lots of spanish moss grows in First Landing State Park in Va Beach, but none over on this side of the bay other than possibly a remnant in some woods down near Eastville that I've never personally seen myself. Nobody here grows sabal palmettos other than some hotels on Chincoteague Island (Zone 7b), but they wrap the trunks and crown and the palms look like crap till they recover in mid-summer.  Have noticed one sabal minor planted at a B&B in Cape Charles but otherwise haven't seen any palms in Cape Charles, but might be some T. fortunei. We're colder up here than in Cape Charles -- when trees have dropped their leaves and flower beds have been cut down by frost, flowers will still be blooming down in Cape Charles. 

oh right under Maryland I see now

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Teegurr
On 10/25/2020 at 3:38 PM, climate change virginia said:

I didnt know there were people my age on this website wow I thought I was the only one. Thanks

Yeah, I'm also sort of young, I'm 15. 

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climate change virginia
4 hours ago, Teegurr said:

Yeah, I'm also sort of young, I'm 15. 

wow thats so cool

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mnorell

I would suggest you grow whatever you like, protect as necessary or set up an experimental mini-greenhouse in your house...learn as much as you can, make lots of mistakes in the process, keep your grades high, and in three years apply to a University in South Florida or at the University of Hawai'i. Let your passions pull you forward and don't let anything stand in your way. You will never look back!

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PalmatierMeg
8 hours ago, mnorell said:

I would suggest you grow whatever you like, protect as necessary or set up an experimental mini-greenhouse in your house...learn as much as you can, make lots of mistakes in the process, keep your grades high, and in three years apply to a University in South Florida or at the University of Hawai'i. Let your passions pull you forward and don't let anything stand in your way. You will never look back!

Hear, hear! Well stated. Today's younger palm lovers are palms' future guardians.

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climate change virginia
9 hours ago, mnorell said:

I would suggest you grow whatever you like, protect as necessary or set up an experimental mini-greenhouse in your house...learn as much as you can, make lots of mistakes in the process, keep your grades high, and in three years apply to a University in South Florida or at the University of Hawai'i. Let your passions pull you forward and don't let anything stand in your way. You will never look back!

I never thought about it like that I will probably do that

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DCA_Palm_Fan
On 10/22/2020 at 5:45 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

True Butia capitata are rare. You may be thinking of Butia odorata, the most common Butia. I doubt either species has a chance in VA. I get the impression you want to get a boffo pinnate trophy palm you can stick in the ground, then walk away. That won't happen unless you are committed to protecting your investment from the vagaries of a Mid Atlantic winter. I lived half of my life in NO VA and I pity any Butia left to fend for itself through one. Your wallet won't thank you either.

I think we may have had this discussion in the past, and  you know me, I will always disagree on some things when someone says you cant do some palms in VA.   lol.    Like you, I spent half my live in NoVA (alexandria / Arlington/ Reston) and I was born and raised in Washington DC.  Im 49 now and moved to Southern FL in 2017.   Anyway,  VaBeach was always the closest "true palm" bastion to me for much of my life.   I know for a fact there are 30 year old Sabal Plamettos there especially away from the coast, and I have also seen quite a few ver large trunking Butia's that produce fruit every year. In fact I knew someone that used to make Jelly from the tall (ish) trunking Pindo palms in her yard.  She had very tall Windmills as well, and spanish moss on her trees that had lived for many years.  She was in southern Va Beach about 1. 5 miles or so inland from the coast.   I believe her coldest temp was on the order of 18F.  Usually she bounced back above 32. during the day most times accept during the fairly rare snow storm.    

 

At any rate this has been a very interesting thread.   I got into palms when I was 10, after a few trips to Fl to visit relatives.    We did not have these kinds of resources (internet, comptuers, forums, etc) back then so it was kind of books and go it on your own.   Glad to see young people here getting into palms!  

 

 hope you are well and have not had any major issues with storms this year!  We actually got slammed hard by ETA. Much harder than expected, and the storm surge on Tampa Bay even at my property was very scary. Only 3.5-4 feet and it came 15-20 feet into the grass over the seawall and within 4 feet of going into bottom floor units.  Salt water in our pool, and heavily damaged our pier and took roof shingles off buildings.  Max winds reached about 70 where I am at out on the water. 

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climate change virginia
1 hour ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

I think we may have had this discussion in the past, and  you know me, I will always disagree on some things when someone says you cant do some palms in VA.   lol.    Like you, I spent half my live in NoVA (alexandria / Arlington/ Reston) and I was born and raised in Washington DC.  Im 49 now and moved to Southern FL in 2017.   Anyway,  VaBeach was always the closest "true palm" bastion to me for much of my life.   I know for a fact there are 30 year old Sabal Plamettos there especially away from the coast, and I have also seen quite a few ver large trunking Butia's that produce fruit every year. In fact I knew someone that used to make Jelly from the tall (ish) trunking Pindo palms in her yard.  She had very tall Windmills as well, and spanish moss on her trees that had lived for many years.  She was in southern Va Beach about 1. 5 miles or so inland from the coast.   I believe her coldest temp was on the order of 18F.  Usually she bounced back above 32. during the day most times accept during the fairly rare snow storm.    

 

At any rate this has been a very interesting thread.   I got into palms when I was 10, after a few trips to Fl to visit relatives.    We did not have these kinds of resources (internet, comptuers, forums, etc) back then so it was kind of books and go it on your own.   Glad to see young people here getting into palms!  

 

 hope you are well and have not had any major issues with storms this year!  We actually got slammed hard by ETA. Much harder than expected, and the storm surge on Tampa Bay even at my property was very scary. Only 3.5-4 feet and it came 15-20 feet into the grass over the seawall and within 4 feet of going into bottom floor units.  Salt water in our pool, and heavily damaged our pier and took roof shingles off buildings.  Max winds reached about 70 where I am at out on the water. 

wow thankfully you didnt get hurt also thats cool with butias can grow in va beach so could I make a box around it every winter like james palms does with washies in south ontario we did get hit pretty hardy my iasas I had to bring my plants in the garage from the storm also the after affect of laura

Edited by climate change virginia
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climate change virginia
1 hour ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

spanish moss

i think ive seen this in some places of dc hanging from weeping willows and live oaks

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DCA_Palm_Fan
8 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

i think ive seen this in some places of dc hanging from weeping willows and live oaks

If you have seen spanish moss anywhere in the DC metropolitan area, someone has either purchased it or brought it back from Florida or somewhere else in the south and hung it.  It will not survive up there for more than a warm winter or two.  It gets too cold and far too dry.  I had some last through one winter once, but the next winter did it in.  The furthest north you might even possibly attempt to get that to grow for you would be Virginia Beach near the coast. 

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NCFM
2 minutes ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

If you have seen spanish moss anywhere in the DC metropolitan area, someone has either purchased it or brought it back from Florida or somewhere else in the south and hung it.  It will not survive up there for more than a warm winter or two.  It gets too cold and far too dry.  I had some last through one winter once, but the next winter did it in.  The furthest north you might even possibly attempt to get that to grow for you would be Virginia Beach near the coast. 

It's native to the VA Beach area, and I've also heard reports that it can be found in parts of the southernmost section of the DelMarVa peninsula. I'm trying some here in the NC piedmont, this will be its first winter. If we have a repeat of last years (fingers crossed) should make it through fine. 

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DCA_Palm_Fan
1 minute ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

It's native to the VA Beach area, and I've also heard reports that it can be found in parts of the southernmost section of the DelMarVa peninsula. I'm trying some here in the NC piedmont, this will be its first winter. If we have a repeat of last years (fingers crossed) should make it through fine. 

Yep. It has been there in First Landing state park my entire life.  That is the furthest north known native population.   I'm still waiting to see if someone can find some on the southern DelMarVa peninsula and post pics of it.  Still nothing yet.  

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NCFM
4 minutes ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Yep. It has been there in First Landing state park my entire life.  That is the furthest north known native population.   I'm still waiting to see if someone can find some on the southern DelMarVa peninsula and post pics of it.  Still nothing yet.  

I've never seen photographic evidence either. I think @ESVA lives in that area, he know for sure

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DCA_Palm_Fan
1 hour ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

I've never seen photographic evidence either. I think @ESVA lives in that area, he know for sure

If it is there, someone needs to photograph it and post it, as it will be a pretty big deal if it is in fact native to that area as well. 

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climate change virginia
16 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

If it is there, someone needs to photograph it and post it, as it will be a pretty big deal if it is in fact native to that area as well. 

isnt spanish moss invasive

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DCA_Palm_Fan
On 11/18/2020 at 2:37 PM, climate change virginia said:

isnt spanish moss invasive

NO.  It is native.    It can colonize areas rather heavily yes, but it does not harm trees or anything else in the environment. 

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climate change virginia
8 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

NO.  It is native.    It can colonize areas rather heavily yes, but it does not harm trees or anything else in the environment. 

oh cool

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