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Ceroxylon Seeds? Or H. Lagenicaulis?


Frond-friend42

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Upon receipt, I thought immediately this was a bait-and-switch swap out. These were sold as C. quindiense. Is this what they look like? I was made more suspicious by some peanut-sized "carpoxylon" seeds in the shipment.

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I have germinated many Ceroxylon seeds, with the resulting plants truly resembling the  species.   Ceroxylon seeds are spherical and light in color.

IMO these are NOT !

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San Francisco, California

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2 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

I have germinated many Ceroxylon seeds, with the resulting plants truly resembling the  species.   Ceroxylon seeds are spherical and light in color.

IMO these are NOT !

It is as I feared then. I have been cheated three times now (twice previously sold as licuala seed) with these Lagenicaulis seeds. Not by sellers on this site. Bottle-palm seeds must be particularly plentiful.. None have sprouted so far. Here is my carpoxylon seed:

I'm thinking they might be some kind of dypsis maybe. Any ideas what these might be?

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Sorry, I don't recognize the second seed.  Dypsis ambositrae and D. baronii have spherical seeds.  No experience with other Dypsis.

The seed shown is 'adjacent' germination rather than 'remote' germination, if that helps to narrow the possibilities.

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San Francisco, California

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Those second seeds definitely not Carpoxylon, which are approx 2" long & 1" wide. Huge seeds, huge seedlings.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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1 hour ago, Hillizard said:

Photo by caixeta circa 2017: "My seeds Ceroxylon quindiuense started germination with approximately 6 months."

Ceroxylon quindiuense 007.JPG

What an accomplishment. Looks like you want a deep pot with that one.

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2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Those second seeds definitely not Carpoxylon, which are approx 2" long & 1" wide. Huge seeds, huge seedlings.

Yeah I actually have some from Atlantisrising on a heat mat sealed in Tupperware like this. Its in a part shade spot with adjacent sun in my green room that is set already at around 80 F. (So probably stays around 90F) Three weeks and no action so far. How does my setup sound?

20200922_205749.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Frond-friend42 said:

What an accomplishment. Looks like you want a deep pot with that one.

Yes, caixeta is a very accomplished grower of palms and many other types of tropical plants. :greenthumb:

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1 hour ago, Frond-friend42 said:

What an accomplishment. Looks like you want a deep pot with that one.

In my experience, seedling Ceroxylons have very few and sparse roots.  They take a long time to fill up the pot volume,  It is easy to damage them if un-potted too soon with all the medium falling away from the few roots.  Pictures tomorrow !  :) 

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San Francisco, California

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9 hours ago, Frond-friend42 said:

It is as I feared then. I have been cheated three times now (twice previously sold as licuala seed) with these Lagenicaulis seeds. Not by sellers on this site. Bottle-palm seeds must be particularly plentiful.. None have sprouted so far. Here is my carpoxylon seed:

I'm thinking they might be some kind of dypsis maybe. Any ideas what these might be?

20201003_132724.jpg

20201005_054449.jpg

It's funny - the first pic you have of the sprouted seed reminds me of Serenoa repens.  I've got some in containers outside and I'd have to dig them out to check, but I think they were adjacent germinators.  The second pic looks a lot more like Dypsis pembana.  I took a pic of one I am trying to germinate, but the quality was poor (it's actually a pembana hybrid but still resembles pembana) and I'm pretty sure these are adjacent germinators also.  I borrowed a photo from @PalmatierMeg's recent ad for Dypsis pembana seeds and it came out much better!

 

407210388_Dypsispembanaseeds06-01-20.thumb.JPG.e611be7809543c9ad7bff298b625b6d0.JPG.106a6de9d500e7b622bb36526c308790.JPG

 

Edited by Fusca

Jon Sunder

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6 minutes ago, Fusca said:

It's funny - the first pic you have of the sprouted seed looks like Serenoa repens.  I've got some in containers outside and I'd have to dig them out to check, but I think they were adjacent germinators.  The second pic looks like it could be Dypsis pembana.  I took a pic of one I am trying to germinate, sorry for the poor quality (it's actually a pembana hybrid but still resembles pembana) and I'm pretty sure these are adjacent germinators also.

 

Dypsis pembana seed.jpg

Fusca, thanks for the input. Serenoa seems a tad large and pembanas I've ordered before, but they are symmetric football (ellipsoid) shaped.These have a slight bulge that makes the pointy end bowed and uneven.

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2 minutes ago, Frond-friend42 said:

Fusca, thanks for the input. Serenoa seems a tad large and pembanas I've ordered before, but they are symmetric football (ellipsoid) shaped.These have a slight bulge that makes the pointy end bowed and uneven.

Yeah, I've seen Serenoa vary a bit in size and shape but the most recent batch I collected locally matched the size pretty well.  I edited my last response with a better pic of pembana seeds and they vary a little bit too, but perhaps yours are a bit smaller.  The pattern of the fibers is similar to me anyway...and I mix up Carpoxylon and Ceroxylon all the time myself!  LOL

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Jon Sunder

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20 minutes ago, Fusca said:

It's funny - the first pic you have of the sprouted seed reminds me of Serenoa repens.  I've got some in containers outside and I'd have to dig them out to check, but I think they were adjacent germinators.  The second pic looks a lot more like Dypsis pembana.  I took a pic of one I am trying to germinate, but the quality was poor (it's actually a pembana hybrid but still resembles pembana) and I'm pretty sure these are adjacent germinators also.  I borrowed a photo from @PalmatierMeg's recent ad for Dypsis pembana seeds and it came out much better!

 

407210388_Dypsispembanaseeds06-01-20.thumb.JPG.e611be7809543c9ad7bff298b625b6d0.JPG.106a6de9d500e7b622bb36526c308790.JPG

 

Yes, Fusca, quite alike I agree.  We'll see as they grow if they survive if they are resembling pembanas.

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21 hours ago, Frond-friend42 said:

Yeah I actually have some from Atlantisrising on a heat mat sealed in Tupperware like this. Its in a part shade spot with adjacent sun in my green room that is set already at around 80 F. (So probably stays around 90F) Three weeks and no action so far. How does my setup sound?

20200922_205749.jpg

You need a deep container (6-8" +). Carpoxyon send out long radicles and large bifid leaves.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

You need a deep container (6-8" +). Carpoxyon send out long radicles and large bifid leaves.

Thanks for that tip. It is deeper than it appears in this picture but more like 4 inches. I was thinking to pluck and plant them as they sprout, individually, but maybe they would not appreciate that?

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On 10/10/2020 at 5:30 AM, richnorm said:

First ones look like Trachycarpus.

That is what the first seeds are. In all likelihood fortunie.

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Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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Followed PalmatierMeg's advice and repotted my macrospermums. And was delighted to find the first germinator.

 First spike is the root radicle, correct?

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On 10/9/2020 at 3:14 PM, Darold Petty said:

In my experience, seedling Ceroxylons have very few and sparse roots.  They take a long time to fill up the pot volume,  It is easy to damage them if un-potted too soon with all the medium falling away from the few roots.  Pictures tomorrow !  :) 

OK,  here is a seedling sized Ceroxylon quindiuense.  The pot size is 3x3x5.5 inches.  The palm is about 24 inches tall.  It has been in this pot since May 13th, 2018. ( 29 months ). This palm is just now knitting up the medium within the pot volume and is ready for a larger pot.

  Not all palms are so slow to develop roots, but I have noticed this with several different seed lots of Ceroxylon.

  Imho, most cultivated palms are over-potted.  How many times have you  purchased a small plant in a big pot ?  How many times when removing it from the pot has a large amount of the medium fallen away from the roots before ground planting?  On several occasions, I have removed a palm from a 15 gallon and re-installed it back into a 7 gallon.   I did this just yesterday with a Howea.

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San Francisco, California

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  • 2 weeks later...

More seed craziness from these wheeler-dealers.

I know none of these is labeled

correctly.  Its a long story why I got a second shipment from them. But the packet at 5 oclock

I'm not sure (no label). Seeds Labeled carpoxylon are probably areca (vestiaria?)? Probably a King of some kind. Any ideas?

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10 minutes ago, Frond-friend42 said:

I'm not sure (no label). Seeds Labeled carpoxylon are probably areca (vestiaria?)? Probably a King of some kind. Any ideas?

I think you might be right on both.  The unlabeled one is definitely Archontophoenix - probably tuckeri based on the roundness.  @pietropuccio posted an awesome photo of various Archontophoenix seeds in this thread:

 

Edited by Fusca
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Jon Sunder

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