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Texyn

The Italian South is a subtropical paradise: Part 2

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Texyn

As a sequel to the previous discussion about the climate of the Italian South, this thread will, once again, investigate the validity of the claims people on this forum commonly make about the subtropical climate of the region.

People on this forum continue to make the mistake of claiming that the drought for the past few years is solely because of global warming, and that it supposedly is more prone to freezes than any other subtropical region in Europe. 

Well, no real climatologist would ever make such absurd claims about the Italian South's subtropical climate, so the fact that you amateurs are doing so its quite laughable. A real climatologist will look at data, and consider all the lurking variables that could influence such data, not just swallow the data hook, line, and sinker, like you amateur climatologists are doing.

So I will present the commonly heard claims about the Italian South's climate, and refute them one by one:

Claim 1: The Italian South is more prone to drought than any other subtropical region.

Refutation: EVERY SINGLE subtropical climate on the planet receives droughts from time to time, so claiming that the Italian South is too prone to them is laughable. I can name SEVERAL locations in EVERY subtropical region on Earth that receive droughts, just like some locations in Sicily. Examples include Buenos Aires, and Tokyo from subtropical South America, and Asia, respectively. And even if droughts do occur, the amounts of winter/spring rainfall is high, meaning the climate would support all kinds of tropical plantings.

People on this forum continue to toss around the claim that the Italian South, out of all the subtropical regions, is the one most prone to droughts. Furthermore, such people continue to label the Italian South as having the hottest record highs of any place at similar latitudes, and at sea-level. But by making those claims, those people continue to behave like amateur climatologists; they ignore the lurking variables, putting too much emphasis on just the raw data. In this case of the Italian South, such extremes in heat and dryness can be blamed on the Dry Epoch phenomenon over Western Europe, which causes the bouts of dryness that skew record highs, as well as average maxima, minima and precipitation. The origin of this Dry Epoch lies with a climate cycle known as the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, which, in a warm phase, as we are in now, causes precipitation over Western Europe to be below normal, thus resulting in the Dry Epoch. Once the pattern changes, the Italian South, and the rest of Europe will return to the wetter, natural climactic state without any drought. And at its natural climactic state, the Italian South is quite warm, so warm, that locations as far north and inland as Tuscany had near 365 day growing seasons, as proven by records from the Etruscan cultures, who lived in the area during the natural climactic state. Such Dry Epoches appear at different continents, at different times; in the 1930s, for example, it was the US South that was affected, during the Dust Bowl Dry Epoch, with even Houston being as dry as modern day Phoenix. 

Lots of people also like to describe oceanic locales such as London as being less prone to cold and drought than locations in the Italian South subtropics. But in order for that to be true, the native vegetation, and animals of the Italian South would have to be hardier than the native vegetation of the British Isles, which it is not. In fact, the native vegetation, and animals of the Italian South are comparable to that of the US South, North India, and East Asia in terms of hardiness, meaning that all regions have similar propensity to cold. Furthermore, lots of cities in the Italian South, especially in coastal areas of the region, can grow all kinds of tropical/subtropcial crops, such as mangoes, citrus, guavas, starfruit, durian fruit, watermelons, cantaloupe, jalapenos, papayas, bananas, pomegranates, avocados, and grapes. In fact, the Italian South was preferable to France for growing grapes and making wine. It is quite common to see subtropical/tropical plants such as jacarandas, bay laurels, dragon fruit trees, and many varieties of palm tree, being grown in the Italian South. Tropical animals such as monkeys, lions, hyenas, crocodiles, flamingos and parrots can be supported by the climate of the Italian South. Evergreen subtropical jungles, coastal mangrove swamps, and even coral reefs are all part of the natural landscape of the Italian South. And to underscore just how supportive of tropicals the Italian South is, the region is one of the few areas of the world where a TROPICAL climate can be seen OUTSIDE the tropics (Lampedusa), and is one of the few locations in the world where tall, and healthy coconut palms can be grown outdoors (Malta, and the Pachino and Agrigento coasts). Many other subtropical regions wish they could achieve such feats.

Thus, the claim that the Italian South is more prone to cold and droughts than any other subtropical region is debunked.

Claim 2: The Italian South has great standard deviation in temperature (swings in temp) during winter.

Refutation: During winter, yes, the Italian South can receive sudden temp changes from cold fronts, but such changes in temp aren't unique to the Italian South, and can be seen in every subtropical region on Earth. In fact, that is the defining feature of such climates; summers with constant conditions, giving way to winters with a little more variation, due to the shift of the Jet-stream closer to the equator.

The variation in the Italian South is not this day-by-day alternation from hot to cold that people like to describe it as. Such people aren't really paying attention, since, in reality, the cold fronts manifest as brief, minuscule interruptions when compared to the many mild winter days at, or within a few degrees of the average. The weather is not unpredictable in the Italian South during winter; you can expect that winter will be mild, with a few cold fronts here and there. And such arctic cold fronts, by the time they make it to the Italian South, are reduced to mere refreshing breezes, and gusts, having been decimated by the low-latitude subtropical sun, the geographic barriers (which do exist, by the way) in the Apennines, the Alps, and the warm, subtropical Adriatic and Mediterranean seas. In such a reduced state, all the arctic front can do is bring temps to the 30s for a night or two, and dry out the air. The result is a nice, sunny day in the Italian South with crispy blue skies, mild temps above 50F, and low humidity. The Balkans, and Scandinavia have high standard deviation in temp, not Italy.

Thus, the claim that the Italian South has great standard deviation in temp during winter is compete nonsense.

So, to all you amateur climatologists: Keep such facts in things in mind before you jump to wild conclusions about the climate of Italy.

Edited by Texyn

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sandgroper

Are you a climatologist? In the above post you have accused many on the forum here of being amateur climatologists half a dozen times, just makes me wonder what qualifications in the field you have yourself as you seem to profess a great knowledge on the subject. On another note, can you provide a photo of coconut palms growing in Italy as I'd love to see a pic of them.

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Silas_Sancona
1 hour ago, sandgroper said:

Are you a climatologist? In the above post you have accused many on the forum here of being amateur climatologists half a dozen times, just makes me wonder what qualifications in the field you have yourself as you seem to profess a great knowledge on the subject. On another note, can you provide a photo of coconut palms growing in Italy as I'd love to see a pic of them.

Curious myself as well.. This isn't facebook btw..  Used Lemons aren't something one can sell here;)

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UK_Palms

Just curious, but do you actually own any palms, or even have any interest in growing them? @Texyn

This is a palm growing forum after all. To the rest of us 'amateur climatologists', the weather discussion/debate is relevant to us because we grow palms and other exotics. A lot of us are zone-pushing and experimenting with various species in our climate, so our discussions are relevant to our growing exploits. Even if they get a bit carried away.

We don't always agree with each other on here, but we all share the same mutual hobby and passion for growing palms. I think that is pretty evident. However, I don't sense that with you one bit. In fact, I don't think you have any interest in growing palms at all. Just saying...

 

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Texyn
1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Just curious, but do you actually own any palms, or even have any interest in growing them? @Texyn

This is a palm growing forum after all. To the rest of us 'amateur climatologists', the weather discussion/debate is relevant to us because we grow palms and other exotics. A lot of us are zone-pushing and experimenting with various species in our climate, so our discussions are relevant to our growing exploits. Even if they get a bit carried away.

We don't always agree with each other on here, but we all share the same mutual hobby and passion for growing palms. I think that is pretty evident. However, I don't sense that with you one bit. In fact, I don't think you have any interest in growing palms at all. Just saying...

 

I'm obviously here because I not only have a passion for growing palms; this is just plain common sense, but also to tell you amateur climatologists the facts and debunk the BS they post. I have lived in many tropical/subtropical locales around the world, from South Brazil, to South Africa, to Northern Mexico, and have traveled frequently to the UK. I have even hiked the deep jungles of Congo. Now I am living in Noto, in Sicily, and can tell you that the Italian South is just as subtropical as these locales in spite of the poleward latitude because of the very warm Mediterranean Sea.

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UK_Palms
20 minutes ago, Texyn said:

I'm obviously here because I not only have a passion for growing palms; this is just plain common sense, but also to tell you amateur climatologists the facts and debunk the BS they post. I have lived in many tropical/subtropical locales around the world, from South Brazil, to South Africa, to Northern Mexico, and have traveled frequently to the UK. I have even hiked the deep jungles of Congo. Now I am living in Noto, in Sicily, and can tell you that the Italian South is just as subtropical as these locales in spite of the poleward latitude because of the very warm Mediterranean Sea.

If you had a passion for growing palms, you would actually post about the palms and share images of your own. Not one of your 22 posts is about your palms, your palm growing experiences or in relation to another palm topic. 

All I see you posting is weather related stuff, specifically about the 'deep south' of Italy, as if somebody has an agenda regarding southern Italy, or has been bad mouthing it. Which they haven't. Nobody was even discussing southern Italy, or debating it's climate, until you brought it up on here. So I don't understand the context of your posts.

I'm not even going to delve into the comparisons you're making between Sicily and the tropical regions of India, Mexico, Australia etc. Have you got any pictures of yourself in the Congo, or India, or southern Brazil? Or any pictures of your palms in general? I doubt it. 

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Texyn
13 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

If you had a passion for growing palms, you would actually post about the palms and share images of your own. Not one of your 22 posts is about your palms, your palm growing experiences or in relation to another palm topic. 

All I see you posting is weather related stuff, specifically about the 'deep south' of Italy, as if somebody has an agenda regarding southern Italy, or has been bad mouthing it. Which they haven't. Nobody was even discussing southern Italy, or debating it's climate, until you brought it up on here. So I don't understand the context of your posts.

I'm not even going to delve into the comparisons you're making between Sicily and the tropical regions of India, Mexico, Australia etc. Have you got any pictures of yourself in the Congo, or India, or southern Brazil? Or any pictures of your palms in general? I doubt it. 

The Italian South is so lucky to offer a large area of beautiful, subtropical landscapes...

valley-alento-river-serramonacesca-italy

Coconut palms in Catania:

2ce0e1c428e7628f17ff3bf2e0e1e3c8.jpg

Subtropical jungles in Messina:

20200124095909-bbfb92dc-cu_e520x360.jpg

 

 

__P85_1985.jpg

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sandgroper

I think these are Kentias.

Screenshot_20200927-194417_Gallery.jpg

Also, I notice that you haven't mentioned your qualifications regarding climate however have again criticised others for their ideas can you please let us know what level of education you have on the subject? Just trying to understand why you believe you know better than most that's all.

Edited by sandgroper
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UK_Palms
1 hour ago, Texyn said:

The__P85_1985.jpg

This photo is from the famous 'Paradise Valley' of Morocco, not Italy. I have seen that photo before. I was planning to visit Morocco at some point this year, prior to the pandemic. This is one of the places I was going to visit, before going to Marrakesh and the Atlas Mountains.

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Texyn
31 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

This photo is from the famous 'Paradise Valley' of Morocco, not Italy. I have seen that photo before. I was planning to visit Morocco at some point this year, prior to the pandemic. This is one of the places I was going to visit, before going to Marrakesh and the Atlas Mountains.

Bullshit; although you're right about this being from Morocco, but the Italian South does have such lush, subtropical landscapes like these; the deciduous forests of the Italian South are a relic from the Little Ice Age Cold Epoch; in its natural climactic state it can support tropicals like these.

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Silas_Sancona
3 hours ago, sandgroper said:

I think these are Kentias.

Screenshot_20200927-194417_Gallery.jpg

Also, I notice that you haven't mentioned your qualifications regarding climate however have again criticised others for their ideas can you please let us know what level of education you have on the subject? Just trying to understand why you believe you know better than most that's all.


I 'dono mate, i hear these might be the super- rare Coconut X Kentia hybrid.. Fruit are bright, Florescent Purple ..and taste like Elderberries.
 
Got 20 'fer sale on 'me facebook page, if interested..  No pictures though.  lol.

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sandgroper
18 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:


I 'dono mate, i hear these might be the super- rare Coconut X Kentia hybrid.. Fruit are bright, Florescent Purple ..and taste like Elderberries.
 
Got 20 'fer sale on 'me facebook page, if interested..  No pictures though.  lol.

:D

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James760

@Texyn, nice work trolling people around. Its painfully obvious who you really are :floor: 

well atleast to me :greenthumb:

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Texyn
17 hours ago, James760 said:

@Texyn, nice work trolling people around. Its painfully obvious who you really are :floor: 

well atleast to me :greenthumb:

But seriously, the Italian South, especially along the coast, is respectably warm during winter; I've seen papaya growing in Catania and Pachino with no problem, and I live in a large house near Noto and can live comfortably with NO A/C OR heat.

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Tyrone

I think we are being trolled here.

Southern Italy seems to be a beautiful place. But the climate is all summed up by the Koeppen classification of Csa. Mediterranean dry subtropical with hot summers. That sounds nice to me. I’m not even an amateur climatologist. I don’t have to be. The internet has the facts right there. 

So as already stated, in Australian terms the south of Italy sort of is a cross between Adelaide and Perth. Many things will grow of course. All the species you mentioned and showed will grow in those two cities. 

As for being tropical, nowhere in the Mediterranean is tropical. You would have to go much further south into Africa to hit the monsoonal tropics (like Darwin) and even further south to hit the constantly wet tropics like Papua New Guinea or Indonesia. And before you ask I’ve been to many tropical places and walked in tropical and subtropical rainforests etc etc. Csa climates do not represent the humid subtropics or the tropics. They are dry subtropical, but they are nice to live in and many things can grow often with irrigation because in the hottest time of the year they average less than 30mm of rain per month.

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sipalms
4 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

I think we are being trolled here.

 

I'm certain we are too! But for the record, it's not me. I have been suggested to be the culprit... but unfortunately there's no way to prove that it isn't. I have enjoyed the giggles though.

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bubba

It is the magician! The living reincarnation of Marie-Antoinette (let them eat cake).

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greysrigging

Haha, the flog ( an aussie slang word, aussies know the significance ) got booted from City Data ( Weather ) Forum for this exact bs type thread.....coincidence ?....yeah, nah. Being impersonated / identity stolen on CDF as mr flog has suggested ?....yeah, nah.....ahhh wait...I've solved it....it was you Simon, on City Data......maaate, brilliant !......lol

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sandgroper
3 hours ago, greysrigging said:

Haha, the flog ( an aussie slang word, aussies know the significance ) got booted from City Data ( Weather ) Forum for this exact bs type thread.....coincidence ?....yeah, nah. Being impersonated / identity stolen on CDF as mr flog has suggested ?....yeah, nah.....ahhh wait...I've solved it....it was you Simon, on City Data......maaate, brilliant !......lol

I'll back you on  him being a flog!

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Texyn
On 9/29/2020 at 4:01 AM, greysrigging said:

Haha, the flog ( an aussie slang word, aussies know the significance ) got booted from City Data ( Weather ) Forum for this exact bs type thread.....coincidence ?....yeah, nah. Being impersonated / identity stolen on CDF as mr flog has suggested ?....yeah, nah.....ahhh wait...I've solved it....it was you Simon, on City Data......maaate, brilliant !......lol

Fool. As a certified meteorologist who graduated earlier this year, I don't understand why you amateur climatologists make up BS claims about the Italian South's "cold" winters, and about that account who was, in fact impersonating me over there. With that said, even under the Cold Epoch, temps in the 60s and 70s are quite common in Catania, and the rest of the Coastal Italian South during winter. The freezes, if they do manifest, are usually light, usually following the clearing of skies after a front, and last only for a handful of hours in the wee parts of the day, followed by quick warm-ups under the sun by afternoon to mild, pleasant levels. That actually perpetuates the survival of tropical vegetation in the Italian South, even when the occurrence of freezes can fool people into believing otherwise.

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greysrigging
11 minutes ago, Texyn said:

Fool. As a certified meteorologist who graduated earlier this year, I don't understand why you amateur climatologists make up BS claims about the Italian South's "cold" winters, and about that account who was, in fact impersonating me over there. With that said, even under the Cold Epoch, temps in the 60s and 70s are quite common in Catania, and the rest of the Coastal Italian South during winter. The freezes, if they do manifest, are usually light, usually following the clearing of skies after a front, and last only for a handful of hours in the wee parts of the day, followed by quick warm-ups under the sun by afternoon to mild, pleasant levels. That actually perpetuates the survival of tropical vegetation in the Italian South, even when the occurrence of freezes can fool people into believing otherwise.

Good boy... keep this thread going.....best entertainment during the Covid restrictions...
And seriously.... who would bother impersonating a flog who talks such unadulterated bs ? If true, they would be on a hiding to nothing...
Go on, rejoin City Data Weather Forum, use the same username you do here, hell, change your e-mail/contact details so as to trick their Mods/Admins. I'm sure you have the technical skills to do so....C'mon, lets continue the debate of your 'Deep Deep South' of Italy topic over there ( again ). I promise not to 'out' you like previously...
10 out of 10 for entertainment ! 0 out of 10 for credibility.
See, an imposter ( as you claim ) would be hard pressed to mimic/copy the exact nuances of your English grammar and writing style... he ( she ? ) even mentioned your home town in Sicily ( Noto )|

Does this look right ? I mean its off the Internet, but would rather hear from someone with 'boots on the ground' so to speak.   "The best time of year to visit Noto in Italy. Here are some average weather facts we collected from our historical climate data:  During the month of April, May, October and November you are most likely to experience good weather with pleasant average temperatures that fall between 20 degrees Celsius (68°F) and 25 degrees Celsius (77°F).The hottest season / summer is in June, July, August and September. The months of January, October and December have a high chance of precipitation.                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Noto has dry periods in May, June, July and August. The warmest month is August with an average maximum temperature of 32°C (89°F).The coldest month is January with an average maximum temperature of 15°C (59°F). October is the most wet month. This month should be avoided if you are not a big fan of rain.

Mate...c'mon, 'fess up..... we will think more highly of you for manning up rather than continuing the numb skullery of this thread.
For the record, I think the Italian South and Sicily is a magnificent region....climatically and culturally.
It ain't tropical by a long stretch.... full on Koppen Classification Mediterranean. And as this is primarily a palm enthusiasts forum.... can you put up some pics of the coconuts thriving in habitat in Sicily, Malta, Cyprus and anywhere else in the Mediterranean ? Not being facetious here, we are generally interested in pushing the known zones where tropical flora will grow, and there are lots of Coconut nerds on this Forum. ( we regard 'em as weed in my climate )
!5c max average in January ? Just can't see a Coconut liking this particularly.... ?
https://weatherspark.com/y/78330/Average-Weather-in-Noto-Italy-Year-Round
 

NOTO WEATHER BY MONTH // WEATHER AVERAGES

  January February March April May June July August September October November December
Avg. Temperature (°C) 10.9 11.1 12.1 14.2 17.7 21.9 24.5 25.1 22.9 19.3 15.5 12.4
Min. Temperature (°C) 7.2 7.2 8 10 13.4 17.3 19.7 20.4 18.6 15.3 11.6 8.7
Max. Temperature (°C) 14.7 15.1 16.3 18.4 22.1 26.5 29.3 29.8 27.3 23.3 19.4 16.1
Avg. Temperature (°F) 51.6 52.0 53.8 57.6 63.9 71.4 76.1 77.2 73.2 66.7 59.9 54.3
Min. Temperature (°F) 45.0 45.0 46.4 50.0 56.1 63.1 67.5 68.7 65.5 59.5 52.9 47.7
Max. Temperature (°F) 58.5 59.2 61.3 65.1 71.8 79.7 84.7 85.6 81.1 73.9 66.9 61.0
Precipitation / Rainfall (mm) 68 37 44 23 12 6 1 10 30 105 61 64

The difference in precipitation between the driest month and the wettest month is 104 mm | 4 inch. The variation in temperatures throughout the year is 14.2 °C | 57.6 °F.

 

So.... can I see a Coconut pic, please, thriving, in your home town

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Texyn
1 hour ago, greysrigging said:

Good boy... keep this thread going.....best entertainment during the Covid restrictions...
And seriously.... who would bother impersonating a flog who talks such unadulterated bs ? If true, they would be on a hiding to nothing...
Go on, rejoin City Data Weather Forum, use the same username you do here, hell, change your e-mail/contact details so as to trick their Mods/Admins. I'm sure you have the technical skills to do so....C'mon, lets continue the debate of your 'Deep Deep South' of Italy topic over there ( again ). I promise not to 'out' you like previously...
10 out of 10 for entertainment ! 0 out of 10 for credibility.
See, an imposter ( as you claim ) would be hard pressed to mimic/copy the exact nuances of your English grammar and writing style... he ( she ? ) even mentioned your home town in Sicily ( Noto )|

Does this look right ? I mean its off the Internet, but would rather hear from someone with 'boots on the ground' so to speak.   "The best time of year to visit Noto in Italy. Here are some average weather facts we collected from our historical climate data:  During the month of April, May, October and November you are most likely to experience good weather with pleasant average temperatures that fall between 20 degrees Celsius (68°F) and 25 degrees Celsius (77°F).The hottest season / summer is in June, July, August and September. The months of January, October and December have a high chance of precipitation.                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Noto has dry periods in May, June, July and August. The warmest month is August with an average maximum temperature of 32°C (89°F).The coldest month is January with an average maximum temperature of 15°C (59°F). October is the most wet month. This month should be avoided if you are not a big fan of rain.

Mate...c'mon, 'fess up..... we will think more highly of you for manning up rather than continuing the numb skullery of this thread.
For the record, I think the Italian South and Sicily is a magnificent region....climatically and culturally.
It ain't tropical by a long stretch.... full on Koppen Classification Mediterranean. And as this is primarily a palm enthusiasts forum.... can you put up some pics of the coconuts thriving in habitat in Sicily, Malta, Cyprus and anywhere else in the Mediterranean ? Not being facetious here, we are generally interested in pushing the known zones where tropical flora will grow, and there are lots of Coconut nerds on this Forum. ( we regard 'em as weed in my climate )
!5c max average in January ? Just can't see a Coconut liking this particularly.... ?
https://weatherspark.com/y/78330/Average-Weather-in-Noto-Italy-Year-Round
 

NOTO WEATHER BY MONTH // WEATHER AVERAGES

  January February March April May June July August September October November December
Avg. Temperature (°C) 10.9 11.1 12.1 14.2 17.7 21.9 24.5 25.1 22.9 19.3 15.5 12.4
Min. Temperature (°C) 7.2 7.2 8 10 13.4 17.3 19.7 20.4 18.6 15.3 11.6 8.7
Max. Temperature (°C) 14.7 15.1 16.3 18.4 22.1 26.5 29.3 29.8 27.3 23.3 19.4 16.1
Avg. Temperature (°F) 51.6 52.0 53.8 57.6 63.9 71.4 76.1 77.2 73.2 66.7 59.9 54.3
Min. Temperature (°F) 45.0 45.0 46.4 50.0 56.1 63.1 67.5 68.7 65.5 59.5 52.9 47.7
Max. Temperature (°F) 58.5 59.2 61.3 65.1 71.8 79.7 84.7 85.6 81.1 73.9 66.9 61.0
Precipitation / Rainfall (mm) 68 37 44 23 12 6 1 10 30 105 61 64

The difference in precipitation between the driest month and the wettest month is 104 mm | 4 inch. The variation in temperatures throughout the year is 14.2 °C | 57.6 °F.

 

So.... can I see a Coconut pic, please, thriving, in your home town

Those winter temps are skewed by the Cold Epoch that has been affecting the area. You are just mad that your pea-brain is not grasping the raw utter logic and common sense in the concepts put forth to you. Just mere sour grapes on your part. You'll see examples of earlier Cold Epoches:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age_Cold_Epoch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Bronze_Age_Cold_Epoch

To further put your weak, strawman arguments to bed, let me show you the record highs and lows in Catania:

http://climaintoscana.altervista.org/italia/stazioni-wmo/catania-sigonella/

See, Catania has seen 80+F days in all months except in January and February, when the Modern Cold Epoch is skewing the record highs and lows.  At a natural climactic state, it would be impossible for places in the Italian South, like Catania to see freezes; their hardiness zones would be at least a full zone, or more higher, and more stable as well, under a natural climactic state, with tropical days above 80+F in mid winter being far more common than they are now, and thus support a myriad of tropical plants, like coconuts in the Italian South.

Edited by Texyn

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greysrigging

Maaaate,,, c'mon....we don't give a rats ass for çold epochs, hot epochs or whatever,,,,,,    just look at the data... and use data from standardized Stevenson Screen  instrumentation.
How hard is it, champ ? It ain't rocket science....
Your climate is very close to Adelaide and Perth in Australia. 
The general consensus is that the Earth has increased average temps by approx 1c since 1910. Now I believe  that Global Warming has contributed to an increase in worldwide average temperatures increasing.. And I'm sure Noto has too since say 1960. 
Coconut pic please....
So easy.... walk out the front door, head down towards the seaside, pull out the Samsung or iPhone and take a pic of a Kensington Pride Mango, a Coconut, A Paw Paw, a Durian, some rice paddies ( no, not the Thai pics, ones from Noto ).

 

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sandgroper
19 minutes ago, greysrigging said:

Maaaate,,, c'mon...
So easy.... walk out the front door, head down towards the seaside, pull out the Samsung or iPhone and take a pic of a Kensington Pride Mango, a Coconut, A Paw Paw, a Durian, some rice paddies ( no, not the Thai pics, ones from Noto ).

 

Brilliant! Lol

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UK_Palms
12 hours ago, greysrigging said:

Maaaate,,, c'mon....we don't give a rats ass for çold epochs, hot epochs or whatever,,,,,,    just look at the data... and use data from standardized Stevenson Screen  instrumentation.
How hard is it, champ ? It ain't rocket science....
Your climate is very close to Adelaide and Perth in Australia. 
The general consensus is that the Earth has increased average temps by approx 1c since 1910. Now I believe  that Global Warming has contributed to an increase in worldwide average temperatures increasing.. And I'm sure Noto has too since say 1960. 
Coconut pic please....
So easy.... walk out the front door, head down towards the seaside, pull out the Samsung or iPhone and take a pic of a Kensington Pride Mango, a Coconut, A Paw Paw, a Durian, some rice paddies ( no, not the Thai pics, ones from Noto ).

 

He can't walk out front and take photos of these 'coconuts' in Noto, because he simply doesn't live there. Or anywhere else in Italy for that matter. The exquisite grammar and spelling is a dead giveaway, as are the elaborate words he is using. His level of English comprehension is well above average, even for a native speaker. Perhaps I am wrong, but I smell a rat. I think most people reading this do as well. 

I suspect he is from North America, Australia or New Zealand and maybe has parents from that part of Italy, so he is perhaps of Italian descent, hence the fixation on that location. Or he has just picked southern Italy at random to big-up, but I doubt that. There must be a reason for him picking that location. But at the end of the day, he isn't a palm grower or palm enthusiast. That is obvious. He has been directed to this site by another member on here, from that city-data site. Fact.

I'm not going to name-drop anyone, but I know exactly who has directed several of these 'weather trolls' here. People who have no interest in growing palms, but openly talk crap about weather as well as criticising others on here. There's quite a few accounts of this nature if you look into it. I'm talking sockpuppet accounts who talk crap from behind a keyboard, who wouldn't dare say anything if they met some of us in real life. Because they're sissy's. And you sockpuppet accounts posting know that!

Would love to meet this Texyn guy and his city-data 'mates' in real life. I would have them for breakfast and feed their bones to my dog. I'm pretty darn specific about my location on here. I would love them to rock up in my hood and pay me a visit here. Please do. I've been getting abusive, violent, racist messages for months on here from these pathetic keyboard warriors. Several abusive/racist accounts clearly linked to this Texyn guy, which I can prove. Again, would love to see you face to face, bro @Texyn if you think you're hard enough. You would run a mile, like the rest of your little b*tch pals. Total keyboard warrior(s) with no spine. The degree of racism in your messages are unreal. You know what I am on about. As we say in the UK, you would get "claaarted" bro....

Had enough of this BS now. I'm gunning for a fight. There, I've said it. Sick of empty words and pathetic private messages. You know the exact village that I live in. Come at me. Please. I will PM you my actual address and pay for your flight if it means us settling this... yeah... £30 from southern Italy to the UK is nothing, or do you want me to come out to Italy for 24 hours. No kidding around. Sick of you and your mates crap. You're all sockpuppet rats. I'm 230 pounds and 27 years old. Lets go. Had enough of this now, especially the aggressive, extreme racist private messages. Private message me again and we will settle this properly. Again, I will pay for your flight to the UK or my flight to Italy. Swear down. That's if you're actually based in Italy. Hopefully the mods can run an IP address check on your location and mine, as people are touting that we are the same account. Clearly not you ratbag.

Would love to settle this in person, since all the racist, aggressive, violent private messages I have been getting off accounts associated with you and your mates. Again, I'm pretty darn specific about my location if the rest of you want it. I'm gunning for it. Please. Bare knuckle yeah. I was just here for the sake of palms, but not putting up with the crap I've been getting in PM's. I could probably name about 5-6 fake accounts on here linked to you and 1-2 others. Again, would love to settle this face to face like men, yeah. That's just a 3 hour flight for either of us if you are in Italy... which I will pay for...

Edited by UK_Palms
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UK_Palms

Apologies to other genuine users on here, but I'm not putting up with this prat's comments, or his city-data mate's crap either, who have forced other UK members off this site via abusive private messages. This is deeply personal now between me and at least 2-3 other 'fake' members who have absolutely no interest in growing palms whatsoever. You know who you are. And other's probably do too. 

Would love to do a US palm meet-up next year, since most people on here are from the US. See how many of you phony sockpuppets actually turn up. I'll confront all 3-4 of you lot together. Try me. You're blatantly sissy sockpuppets from that city-data site, who think you're tough from behind a keybaord. Funny how you're totally abstract about your personal details in real life however. No specific details at all. Absolute sissy's. Probably skinny little runts. 

Private message me again if you think you're tough enough. I'm not letting this go since you've actually forced other members off here via abusive/threatening private messages. I'll personally try and trace your IP's and confront you in person at some point...  absolute p*ssy's. 

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UK_Palms

@Texyn @Altea @Benfxmth_ @SubarcticUK are all troll accounts. No interest in growing palms at all. Nasty/abusive to other UK and Spain members as well, on two separate platforms. Could name at least another 2 potential troll accounts as well. I'll give those ones the benefit of the doubt though.

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Texyn
10 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

He can't walk out front and take photos of these 'coconuts' in Noto, because he simply doesn't live there. Or anywhere else in Italy for that matter. The exquisite grammar and spelling is a dead giveaway, as are the elaborate words he is using. His level of English comprehension is well above average, even for a native speaker. Perhaps I am wrong, but I smell a rat. I think most people reading this do as well. 

I suspect he is from North America, Australia or New Zealand and maybe has parents from that part of Italy, so he is perhaps of Italian descent, hence the fixation on that location. Or he has just picked southern Italy at random to big-up, but I doubt that. There must be a reason for him picking that location. But at the end of the day, he isn't a palm grower or palm enthusiast. That is obvious. He has been directed to this site by another member on here, from that city-data site. Fact.

I'm not going to name-drop anyone, but I know exactly who has directed several of these 'weather trolls' here. People who have no interest in growing palms, but openly talk crap about weather as well as criticising others on here. There's quite a few accounts of this nature if you look into it. I'm talking sockpuppet accounts who talk crap from behind a keyboard, who wouldn't dare say anything if they met some of us in real life. Because they're sissy's. And you sockpuppet accounts posting know that!

Would love to meet this Texyn guy and his city-data 'mates' in real life. I would have them for breakfast and feed their bones to my dog. I'm pretty darn specific about my location on here. I would love them to rock up in my hood and pay me a visit here. Please do. I've been getting abusive, violent, racist messages for months on here from these pathetic keyboard warriors. Several abusive/racist accounts clearly linked to this Texyn guy, which I can prove. Again, would love to see you face to face, bro @Texyn if you think you're hard enough. You would run a mile, like the rest of your little b*tch pals. Total keyboard warrior(s) with no spine. The degree of racism in your messages are unreal. You know what I am on about. As we say in the UK, you would get "claaarted" bro....

Had enough of this BS now. I'm gunning for a fight. There, I've said it. Sick of empty words and pathetic private messages. You know the exact village that I live in. Come at me. Please. I will PM you my actual address and pay for your flight if it means us settling this... yeah... £30 from southern Italy to the UK is nothing, or do you want me to come out to Italy for 24 hours. No kidding around. Sick of you and your mates crap. You're all sockpuppet rats. I'm 230 pounds and 27 years old. Lets go. Had enough of this now, especially the aggressive, extreme racist private messages. Private message me again and we will settle this properly. Again, I will pay for your flight to the UK or my flight to Italy. Swear down. That's if you're actually based in Italy. Hopefully the mods can run an IP address check on your location and mine, as people are touting that we are the same account. Clearly not you ratbag.

Would love to settle this in person, since all the racist, aggressive, violent private messages I have been getting off accounts associated with you and your mates. Again, I'm pretty darn specific about my location if the rest of you want it. I'm gunning for it. Please. Bare knuckle yeah. I was just here for the sake of palms, but not putting up with the crap I've been getting in PM's. I could probably name about 5-6 fake accounts on here linked to you and 1-2 others. Again, would love to settle this face to face like men, yeah. That's just a 3 hour flight for either of us if you are in Italy... which I will pay for...

@greysrigging @UK_Palms Here are some pictures of Coconuts growing in my garden in Sicily, so stop making up retarded nonsense:

 

 

f1ae897e395997cd4254c2996fdd557a6f490cc1.jpeg

25005_10729.jpg

Edited by Texyn
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greysrigging
43 minutes ago, Texyn said:

@greysrigging @UK_Palms Here are some pictures of Coconuts growing in my garden in Sicily, so stop making up retarded nonsense:

 

 

f1ae897e395997cd4254c2996fdd557a6f490cc1.jpeg

25005_10729.jpg

Well champ, get todays newspaper with the date prominent. and with you holding it, in front of those palms.... that might assuage the Group doubts as to your veracity ?
Not too much to ask is it ? Oh, and make it the local Noto newspaper please ?
And I daresay a man with your technical graduate expertise should be able to achieve this task so as to fool us plebs/great unwashed....
( and please...don't pull the Thailand pics again.... its unbecoming of you..... )

Edited by greysrigging
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