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PalmatierMeg

Sabal miamiensis Leu Garden: HUGE Fruit & Seeds

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PalmatierMeg

My second/younger Sabal miamiensis I germinated from a dessicated seed I found on a plaqued palm at Leu Garden in Orlando, FL, flowered and set fruit for the first time this spring. And that fruit and seeds are by far the largest I've personally ever seen in a Sabal palm - more than 2x larger than those of my first S. miamiensis, which came from seeds collected by Christian Faulkner. In addition, that crop of seeds started ripening in early Sept. Sabals in SWFL generally ripen from mid-Oct. to late Nov. That early ripening may just be a variation on a norm but it is new to me and I'm not sure what to make of it. But the palm nerd in me finds all this exciting.

Sabal miamiensis fr Leu Garden seed, Cape Coral, FL 2020

1740264052_SabalmiamiensisLeuGarden0109-12-20.thumb.JPG.463f7f780432cce6231894b320aeb1b9.JPG276742212_SabalmiamiensisLeuGarden0209-12-20.thumb.JPG.b625259d5a3bccc5a79f00686cc6dd71.JPG536052221_SabalmiamiensisLeuGarden0309-12-20.thumb.JPG.03dc108d082d9ce48a0b6ac0312db45c.JPG97754254_SabalmiamiensisLeuGardenlgfruit0109-12-20.thumb.JPG.e5573caea6e4309941efe5ea5643ab2d.JPG892593785_SabalmiamiensisLeuGardenfruitnseeds0109-12-20.thumb.JPG.bc8ca601f5c25e1b8a10533ac014bf00.JPG

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NatureGirl

Wonder if it’s some kind of hybrid? Hodel description of S miami below

 

C8A25A25-67B9-43C0-A1C3-9FBC85417A4B.jpeg

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Fusca

Interesting @PalmatierMeg.  Those fruits and seeds are roughly the same size as Sabal mexicana - perhaps a bit smaller than mexicana.

 

IMG_20200913_132453_hdr.jpg

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Steve in Florida

Meg, I would be interested in obtaining some seeds to compare to the other Sabal miamiensis seed batch I bought from you.

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Palmcycasnut

I would also Meg. The previous plants are 15 gallon size now.  

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Eric in Orlando

We have 2 fruiting size Sabal miamiensis at Leu Gardens. The oldest is in the Palm Garden and was acquired in May 1999 from a Broward Co. Palm Society sale at Flamingo Gardens. It was a nice 1gal. specimen and planted later in May 1999. It is planted in a bed with other Sabal species, some mature including a flowering S. mexicana. It is possible there is hybridization.

The 2nd fruiting specimen is planted in the Arid Garden. It was grown from seed off the original S. miamiensis in the Palm Garden. This one was planted in July 2012 from a 1 gal. specimen. This one has begun fruiting in the past year. 

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PalmatierMeg
2 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

We have 2 fruiting size Sabal miamiensis at Leu Gardens. The oldest is in the Palm Garden and was acquired in May 1999 from a Broward Co. Palm Society sale at Flamingo Gardens. It was a nice 1gal. specimen and planted later in May 1999. It is planted in a bed with other Sabal species, some mature including a flowering S. mexicana. It is possible there is hybridization.

The 2nd fruiting specimen is planted in the Arid Garden. It was grown from seed off the original S. miamiensis in the Palm Garden. This one was planted in July 2012 from a 1 gal. specimen. This one has begun fruiting in the past year. 

I can't remember exactly where it was when I was there in 2015. I do remember it was growing in mostly shade and was fairly small, but it was definitely labeled. I thought I'd taken photos of it but I can't find them on my hard drive.

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Eric in Orlando
4 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I can't remember exactly where it was when I was there in 2015. I do remember it was growing in mostly shade and was fairly small, but it was definitely labeled. I thought I'd taken photos of it but I can't find them on my hard drive.

Sounds like the original specimen in the Palm Garden

 

 

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Fusca
On 9/12/2020 at 2:11 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

My second/younger Sabal miamiensis I germinated from a dessicated seed I found on a plaqued palm at Leu Garden in Orlando, FL, flowered and set fruit for the first time this spring.

Meg, did you notice any difference in growth rate with this younger Sabal miamiensis and your older one?

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PalmatierMeg
58 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Meg, did you notice any difference in growth rate with this younger Sabal miamiensis and your older one?

It's been a very fast grower but my original miamiensis grew quickly compared to other Sabals. I've searched my photo archive but don't have any specific photos prior to 2011. But I do have memories.

2008 - S. miamiensis gifted to me as a 2-leaf seedling in a small cone in May after I expressed the hope on PT I could obtain/grow all the native FL palms

2009 - Seedling struggled during prior year, appeared to be dying, then formed a secondary growing point and took off. Photo below from April 2009 shows where my S. miamiensis would be planted later in 2010 - container garden cactus then in place

320025850_HouseplantsApril2009002.thumb.JPG.da6a2f19274d5de3dfa98548a3de61d6.JPG

2011 - Sabal miamiensis

1229834974_Sabalmiamiensis0110-21-11.JPG.f2587a7ac715c4c058d6183dd51381dd.JPG

2012

433945273_Sabalmiamiensis019-8-12.JPG.c6437b093c93896377dea4d435fd2eee.JPG

2013

730354697_Sabalmiamiensis016-7-13.thumb.JPG.cf6fe52b99692fea900e0ace503addd7.JPG

2014

1932566223_Sabalmiamiensis012-3-14.thumb.JPG.e944123d8c8002b1c44b3a4524f703ac.JPG

2015 - Note flowers

706676886_Sabalmiamiensis017-10-15.thumb.JPG.d53e409b7c38705d70a6488e0184f687.JPG

2016 - Looming over my husband's 1991 Corvette

296973054_Housefromnorth021-3-16.thumb.JPG.5209e60fff9a7c71bc6f9cdeb03c0fa1.JPG

2019

262623816_Sabalmiamiensis0210-28-19.thumb.JPG.72716c357f2d7245bb4beb8b3688139c.JPG

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Fusca

That is impressive growth for a pure Sabal!

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
2 hours ago, Fusca said:

That is impressive growth for a pure Sabal!

Im confused Sabals dont hybridize easily since they self fertilize right ? What makes a pure sabal ? I'm sure this will turn into a oh duh moment for me haha 

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PalmatierMeg
1 hour ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Im confused Sabals dont hybridize easily since they self fertilize right ? What makes a pure sabal ? I'm sure this will turn into a oh duh moment for me haha 

I think he meant pure Sabal miamiensis. I thought the same. Sabals have been known to hybridize but I get the impression they don't do it often. Could this plant be a miamiensis x mexicana? I don't have the expertise to know for sure, but the two species are quite distant from each other. There are species much closer geographically, i.e., palmetto (esp.) and etonia (north central FL - couple 100 miles+ away) and, you might assume, closer genetically. Still, I am befuddled at how large the fruit and seeds are on this palm and why they are all ripening in mid-Sept rather than late Oct. I have no answer why, unless this palm is somehow on palm steroids. A puzzlement but a cool one.

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Bigfish

Wow, those seeds are huge!  I suppose it’s quite possible that seed size is just variable, which could explain the discrepancy in seed size between that one and the ones from Christian’s seeds.  Perhaps miamiensis is of hybrid origin.  Mine is quite a beast now!

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NOT A TA

I have no experience with miamiensis.  Just posted to say that I started collecting ripe Sabal palmetto seed this past week and did a trim job on 7 - 30' + palmettos that had ripe fruit  on certain plants 2 weeks ago.  While most of the palmetto seed matures later in Oct. and Nov. there are some infrutescense with ripe seed as soon as early Sept.

And YA, those seeds are big!

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Fusca
On 9/19/2020 at 2:42 PM, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Im confused Sabals dont hybridize easily since they self fertilize right ? What makes a pure sabal ? I'm sure this will turn into a oh duh moment for me haha 

TJ, I think you're right in saying that Sabals don't naturally hybridize easily.  And yes, I was commenting on the growth rate of Meg's older "unhybridized" pure Sabal miamiensis.  But the fruit and seed size of Meg's younger miamiensis is similar to mexicana and ripening at roughly the same time as the mexicana around here so it makes me think it might be a rare natural hybrid with mexicana.  If it was a hybrid I would have expected it to grow a bit faster due to hybrid vigor, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  Very interesting...

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Steve in Florida

Scott Zona described the species as having seeds that are 10.2-11 mm in width.  His examination came from dried seeds from a single plant.  Meg's seeds appear to measure 11-12 mm in width.   A maximum variance of only 1 mm or 74% the thickness of a dime. 

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TexasColdHardyPalms

@PalmatierMeg that sure looks a LOT like mexicana. Seed size matches up as well. I would bet that next year it is loaded down with seed. 

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