Jump to content
PalmatierMeg

Sabal miamiensis Leu Garden: HUGE Fruit & Seeds

Recommended Posts

PalmatierMeg

My second/younger Sabal miamiensis I germinated from a dessicated seed I found on a plaqued palm at Leu Garden in Orlando, FL, flowered and set fruit for the first time this spring. And that fruit and seeds are by far the largest I've personally ever seen in a Sabal palm - more than 2x larger than those of my first S. miamiensis, which came from seeds collected by Christian Faulkner. In addition, that crop of seeds started ripening in early Sept. Sabals in SWFL generally ripen from mid-Oct. to late Nov. That early ripening may just be a variation on a norm but it is new to me and I'm not sure what to make of it. But the palm nerd in me finds all this exciting.

Sabal miamiensis fr Leu Garden seed, Cape Coral, FL 2020

1740264052_SabalmiamiensisLeuGarden0109-12-20.thumb.JPG.463f7f780432cce6231894b320aeb1b9.JPG276742212_SabalmiamiensisLeuGarden0209-12-20.thumb.JPG.b625259d5a3bccc5a79f00686cc6dd71.JPG536052221_SabalmiamiensisLeuGarden0309-12-20.thumb.JPG.03dc108d082d9ce48a0b6ac0312db45c.JPG97754254_SabalmiamiensisLeuGardenlgfruit0109-12-20.thumb.JPG.e5573caea6e4309941efe5ea5643ab2d.JPG892593785_SabalmiamiensisLeuGardenfruitnseeds0109-12-20.thumb.JPG.bc8ca601f5c25e1b8a10533ac014bf00.JPG

  • Like 6
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NatureGirl

Wonder if it’s some kind of hybrid? Hodel description of S miami below

 

C8A25A25-67B9-43C0-A1C3-9FBC85417A4B.jpeg

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fusca

Interesting @PalmatierMeg.  Those fruits and seeds are roughly the same size as Sabal mexicana - perhaps a bit smaller than mexicana.

 

IMG_20200913_132453_hdr.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve in Florida

Meg, I would be interested in obtaining some seeds to compare to the other Sabal miamiensis seed batch I bought from you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palmcycasnut

I would also Meg. The previous plants are 15 gallon size now.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eric in Orlando

We have 2 fruiting size Sabal miamiensis at Leu Gardens. The oldest is in the Palm Garden and was acquired in May 1999 from a Broward Co. Palm Society sale at Flamingo Gardens. It was a nice 1gal. specimen and planted later in May 1999. It is planted in a bed with other Sabal species, some mature including a flowering S. mexicana. It is possible there is hybridization.

The 2nd fruiting specimen is planted in the Arid Garden. It was grown from seed off the original S. miamiensis in the Palm Garden. This one was planted in July 2012 from a 1 gal. specimen. This one has begun fruiting in the past year. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg
2 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

We have 2 fruiting size Sabal miamiensis at Leu Gardens. The oldest is in the Palm Garden and was acquired in May 1999 from a Broward Co. Palm Society sale at Flamingo Gardens. It was a nice 1gal. specimen and planted later in May 1999. It is planted in a bed with other Sabal species, some mature including a flowering S. mexicana. It is possible there is hybridization.

The 2nd fruiting specimen is planted in the Arid Garden. It was grown from seed off the original S. miamiensis in the Palm Garden. This one was planted in July 2012 from a 1 gal. specimen. This one has begun fruiting in the past year. 

I can't remember exactly where it was when I was there in 2015. I do remember it was growing in mostly shade and was fairly small, but it was definitely labeled. I thought I'd taken photos of it but I can't find them on my hard drive.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eric in Orlando
4 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I can't remember exactly where it was when I was there in 2015. I do remember it was growing in mostly shade and was fairly small, but it was definitely labeled. I thought I'd taken photos of it but I can't find them on my hard drive.

Sounds like the original specimen in the Palm Garden

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fusca
On 9/12/2020 at 2:11 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

My second/younger Sabal miamiensis I germinated from a dessicated seed I found on a plaqued palm at Leu Garden in Orlando, FL, flowered and set fruit for the first time this spring.

Meg, did you notice any difference in growth rate with this younger Sabal miamiensis and your older one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg
58 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Meg, did you notice any difference in growth rate with this younger Sabal miamiensis and your older one?

It's been a very fast grower but my original miamiensis grew quickly compared to other Sabals. I've searched my photo archive but don't have any specific photos prior to 2011. But I do have memories.

2008 - S. miamiensis gifted to me as a 2-leaf seedling in a small cone in May after I expressed the hope on PT I could obtain/grow all the native FL palms

2009 - Seedling struggled during prior year, appeared to be dying, then formed a secondary growing point and took off. Photo below from April 2009 shows where my S. miamiensis would be planted later in 2010 - container garden cactus then in place

320025850_HouseplantsApril2009002.thumb.JPG.da6a2f19274d5de3dfa98548a3de61d6.JPG

2011 - Sabal miamiensis

1229834974_Sabalmiamiensis0110-21-11.JPG.f2587a7ac715c4c058d6183dd51381dd.JPG

2012

433945273_Sabalmiamiensis019-8-12.JPG.c6437b093c93896377dea4d435fd2eee.JPG

2013

730354697_Sabalmiamiensis016-7-13.thumb.JPG.cf6fe52b99692fea900e0ace503addd7.JPG

2014

1932566223_Sabalmiamiensis012-3-14.thumb.JPG.e944123d8c8002b1c44b3a4524f703ac.JPG

2015 - Note flowers

706676886_Sabalmiamiensis017-10-15.thumb.JPG.d53e409b7c38705d70a6488e0184f687.JPG

2016 - Looming over my husband's 1991 Corvette

296973054_Housefromnorth021-3-16.thumb.JPG.5209e60fff9a7c71bc6f9cdeb03c0fa1.JPG

2019

262623816_Sabalmiamiensis0210-28-19.thumb.JPG.72716c357f2d7245bb4beb8b3688139c.JPG

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fusca

That is impressive growth for a pure Sabal!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OC2Texaspalmlvr
2 hours ago, Fusca said:

That is impressive growth for a pure Sabal!

Im confused Sabals dont hybridize easily since they self fertilize right ? What makes a pure sabal ? I'm sure this will turn into a oh duh moment for me haha 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg
1 hour ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Im confused Sabals dont hybridize easily since they self fertilize right ? What makes a pure sabal ? I'm sure this will turn into a oh duh moment for me haha 

I think he meant pure Sabal miamiensis. I thought the same. Sabals have been known to hybridize but I get the impression they don't do it often. Could this plant be a miamiensis x mexicana? I don't have the expertise to know for sure, but the two species are quite distant from each other. There are species much closer geographically, i.e., palmetto (esp.) and etonia (north central FL - couple 100 miles+ away) and, you might assume, closer genetically. Still, I am befuddled at how large the fruit and seeds are on this palm and why they are all ripening in mid-Sept rather than late Oct. I have no answer why, unless this palm is somehow on palm steroids. A puzzlement but a cool one.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bigfish

Wow, those seeds are huge!  I suppose it’s quite possible that seed size is just variable, which could explain the discrepancy in seed size between that one and the ones from Christian’s seeds.  Perhaps miamiensis is of hybrid origin.  Mine is quite a beast now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NOT A TA

I have no experience with miamiensis.  Just posted to say that I started collecting ripe Sabal palmetto seed this past week and did a trim job on 7 - 30' + palmettos that had ripe fruit  on certain plants 2 weeks ago.  While most of the palmetto seed matures later in Oct. and Nov. there are some infrutescense with ripe seed as soon as early Sept.

And YA, those seeds are big!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fusca
On 9/19/2020 at 2:42 PM, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Im confused Sabals dont hybridize easily since they self fertilize right ? What makes a pure sabal ? I'm sure this will turn into a oh duh moment for me haha 

TJ, I think you're right in saying that Sabals don't naturally hybridize easily.  And yes, I was commenting on the growth rate of Meg's older "unhybridized" pure Sabal miamiensis.  But the fruit and seed size of Meg's younger miamiensis is similar to mexicana and ripening at roughly the same time as the mexicana around here so it makes me think it might be a rare natural hybrid with mexicana.  If it was a hybrid I would have expected it to grow a bit faster due to hybrid vigor, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.  Very interesting...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve in Florida

Scott Zona described the species as having seeds that are 10.2-11 mm in width.  His examination came from dried seeds from a single plant.  Meg's seeds appear to measure 11-12 mm in width.   A maximum variance of only 1 mm or 74% the thickness of a dime. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TexasColdHardyPalms

@PalmatierMeg that sure looks a LOT like mexicana. Seed size matches up as well. I would bet that next year it is loaded down with seed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Similar Content

    • PalmatierMeg
      By PalmatierMeg
      My second Sabal miamiensis, grown from a seed I collected from a plaqued palm at Leu Botanical Garden in Orlando, FL, has produced its first crop of seeds. They are by far the largest Sabal seeds I have ever seen in person. I posted about them in a topic I link to below.
      https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/65324-sabal-miamiensis-leu-garden-huge-fruit-seeds/&tab=comments#comment-954404
      So, are these seeds the offspring of a pure S. miamiensis or a hybrid between S.m. and another Sabal species growing in Leu Garden? I'm not sure and I believe no one else is either.
      If you wish to learn more about S. miamiensis, read the following article from Palmpedia
      https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Sabal_miamiensis
      I have another Sabal miamiensis that I received as a tiny seedling in 2008. It has been seeding for years and I thought it had large seeds - until now. This year I cut off its inflorescenses so its genetics would not interfere with the newer palm. However, I have seeds of my older S.m. remaining from 2019 to compare. My younger S.m. flowered and set seeds earlier than than the older. Those seeds also ripened 6-8 weeks earlier than any other Sabal. I finished harvesting them earlier this week. Sabal palm seeds in Cape Coral generally ripen from late Oct. through Nov. Not only are these seeds exceptionally large but they are also fewer in number than I have seen on any other Sabal except uber dwarf Sabal minors.
      Photo 1:  Left) Six seeds of S. miamiensis 'Leu Garden' - compared to - Right) six seeds of my older S. miamiensis 'Original' from 2019

      I want to make these unusually large Sabal miamiensis 'Leu Garden' seeds available to PTers. I am also offering the remainder of my older miamiensis' 2019 crop at a discount. Sabal seeds are not short-lived like some palm seeds and these nearly year-old seeds should still germinate well. Perhaps some of you might wish to grow both sets of seeds side by side for comparison, then report back to the forum with results. I can package both sets for combined shipping.
      Sabal miamiensis 'Leu Garden' Seeds:  25 @ $10.00 for the lot
                                                                      50 @ $15.00 for the lot
                                                                     100 @ $20.00 for the lot
      Sabal miamiensis 'Original' 2019 seeds:  50 @ $8.00 for the lot
                                                                           100 @ $12.00 for the lot
      Shipping: $6.00 up to 300 seeds             No shipping outside the US.  No shipping to HI
      Payment via Paypal
      PM me if you are interested
      Photos
      Sabal miamiensis 'Leu Garden' seeds (top) and fruit (bottom)

      Sabal miamiensis 'Leu Garden' mother palm, 2020

      Sabal miamiensis 'Original' mother palm, 2019

    • PalmatierMeg
      By PalmatierMeg
      My second/younger Sabal miamiensis I germinated from a dessicated seed I found on a plaqued palm at Leu Garden in Orlando, FL, flowered and set fruit for the first time this spring. And that fruit and seeds are by far the largest I've personally ever seen in a Sabal palm - more than 2x larger than those of my first S. miamiensis, which came from seeds collected by Christian Faulkner. In addition, that crop of seeds started ripening in early Sept. Sabals in SWFL generally ripen from mid-Oct. to late Nov. That early ripening may just be a variation on a norm but it is new to me and I'm not sure what to make of it. But the palm nerd in me finds all this exciting.
      Sabal miamiensis fr Leu Garden seed, Cape Coral, FL 2020

    • PalmatierMeg
      By PalmatierMeg
      Earlier this year I posted a topic asking for interest in seeds of this most puzzling, controversial extinct-in-the-wild Sabal.
      https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/60530-sabal-miamiensis-in-flower-seeds-anyone/&tab=comments#comment-897138
      I received quite a bit of interest so I kept 3 infructescenses going. Those seeds are now ripened/ripening and I have harvested 1000s of them and am listing them here. If you want to know more about this palm, check out the info below the listing.
      See summary below:
      Sabal miamiensis Uncleaned Seeds: !00 seeds @ $10.00 for lot.       Each additional 100 seeds = $5.00 ea      (Minimum purchase = 100 Seeds)
      Shipping = $6.00 for first 100.  Shipping for additional quantities to be quoted.  
      Uncleaned seeds cannot be shipped outside the US. HI law forbids importation of all Sabal spp
      *********************************************************************************************************************
      Sabal miamiensis Cleaned Seeds: 50 seeds @ $10.00 for lot
                                                            100 seeds @ $15.00 for lot
                                                            Each additional 100 seeds = $10.00 per 100
      Shipping = $5.00 for first 100.  Shipping for additional quantities to be quoted. (US only)   HI law forbids importation of all Sabal spp
      I will ship cleaned seeds only outside the US. Please be aware of your customs laws before you order. Some countries will seize, destroy or hold seeds for ransom - find out if yours is one of those. Also be aware that US Customs requires that I fill out a declaration form for any pkg sent out of the country and I cannot lie about the contents. Shipping has become insanely expensive, i.e., $15.00 for a <8 oz. pkg to Europe. Shipping to Canada is a bit less but still expensive. I cannot make refunds if your seeds are seized.
      PM me if you are interested.
      Photo 1 is of uncleaned seeds

      Photo 2 is of cleaned seeds

      Photo 3 is of ripening seeds on my mother palm. More photos are in the link above.
       

      Many of you may have read the story of Sabal miamiensis: A distinctive population of a Sabal sp discovered on a limestone outcrop in SE FL, described and named as a unique species Sabal miamiensis. Specimens were distributed to botanical gardens and a few private gardens. In the meantime developers wiped out that small original population, essentially making this palm extinct in the wild. Since the new millenial, controversy erupted over whether Sabal miamiensis is a separate species, a form of S. palmetto or S. etonia or a hybrid of Sabal this and Sabal that. Personally, I don't care because this palm is unique.
      For anyone who has remarked that Sabals are impossibly slow growing, I can attest that my two Sabal miamiensis are two of the most robust and fastest growing Sabals in my yard. I received my original palm in a 6" cone in May 2008. It has been setting many 1,000s of seeds for the past 3-4 years. In the fall of 2015 I germinated a seed from the plaqued S.m. in Leu Garden in Orlando. I took the following photos of that juvenile palm today - 4 years later. This is a tough and beautiful palm that can rightfully claim a place in anyone's garden.
      Sabal miamiensis germinated from Leu Garden seed

×
×
  • Create New...