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Chester B

High Winds and Wildfires in Oregon

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Chester B

Overnight we had dozens of wildfires start up in our State.  Over 100,000 without power this morning in the Portland area, due to fallen trees and limbs from high winds with many causing localized fires.  The winds and high heat are expected to continue and evacuations are occurring as we speak.  So far no large fires close to the city, although there were some reports of ashes falling.

Video from yesterday as the winds moved in.

 

 

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Chester B

Things have gotten much worse here. Evacuations and fires starting up all over the place. The Beachie fire went from 500 acres to 200 square miles in a day. They are calling this a historic fire season and the state has issued a state of emergency. Videos from 20 minutes south of me look like Mars. I’m under level 1 evacuation so not too bad at the moment, 3 means get out now. One more day of winds and this early windstorm should end and hopefully we get the onshore flow of winds to push the fires back. 
 

pics from yesterday, but today is much worse. These were shot in the middle of the day. 

B7919E5C-3C0A-4D37-98E6-A94AB647BC29.jpeg

72028F65-6CC3-4B80-B3D3-A9EEB1BB59F4.jpeg

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kinzyjr
1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Things have gotten much worse here. Evacuations and fires starting up all over the place. The Beachie fire went from 500 acres to 200 square miles in a day. They are calling this a historic fire season and the state has issued a state of emergency. Videos from 20 minutes south of me look like Mars. I’m under level 1 evacuation so not too bad at the moment, 3 means get out now. One more day of winds and this early windstorm should end and hopefully we get the onshore flow of winds to push the fires back. 
 

pics from yesterday, but today is much worse. These were shot in the middle of the day.

 

Hope you all stay safe out there.  I've seen some pretty scary stuff out there in Oregon and California. 

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Silas_Sancona
1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Things have gotten much worse here. Evacuations and fires starting up all over the place. The Beachie fire went from 500 acres to 200 square miles in a day. They are calling this a historic fire season and the state has issued a state of emergency. Videos from 20 minutes south of me look like Mars. I’m under level 1 evacuation so not too bad at the moment, 3 means get out now. One more day of winds and this early windstorm should end and hopefully we get the onshore flow of winds to push the fires back. 
 

pics from yesterday, but today is much worse. These were shot in the middle of the day. 

B7919E5C-3C0A-4D37-98E6-A94AB647BC29.jpeg

72028F65-6CC3-4B80-B3D3-A9EEB1BB59F4.jpeg

Any word on Medford/Ashville?  Had heard winds came down a bit but didn't seem as though much updated info was coming out of the area late last night.

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Chester B

There are so many fires going on that our local news is focused on ones more close by.  I did hear Medford and Ashland were at Evac level 2 and some people may have had to evacuate.  The I5 was closed and they were turning people back at the California border but it sounds like it may be open again this morning.  I know they have at least 3 fires close to town.

The winds have been slowly dropping off and today is the last day of forecasted strong gusts.  It looks like Friday we may get onshore flow which will bring the humidity up and push the fires back the way they came.  Chance of some rain mid next week but I'm not holding my breath.

Good information on the fires can be found here:

https://www.oregon.gov/odf/fire/pages/firestats.aspx

 

Edited by Chester B

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Silas_Sancona
3 minutes ago, Chester B said:

There are so many fires going on that our local news is focused on ones more close by.  I did hear Medford and Ashland were at Evac level 2 and some people may have had to evacuate.  The I5 was closed and they were turning people back at the California border but it sounds like it may be open again this morning.  I know they have at least 3 fires close to town.

The winds have been slowly dropping off and today is the last day of forecasted strong gusts.  It looks like Friday we may get onshore flow which will bring the humidity up and push the fires back the way they came.  Chance of some rain mid next week but I'm not holding my breath.

Good information on the fires can be found here:

https://www.oregon.gov/odf/fire/pages/firestats.aspx

 

Was monitoring the twitter handle out of the area until about 2am local time.. looked like a few housing developments were lost, mostly on the south/southeast side of town, as well as fires trying to spot closer to downtown, and near the airport.  Same fire apparently went through Phoenix ( directly south of Medford ) also..  Crazy times..

 

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Chester B

I'm used to snow storms, severe thunderstorms and tornadoes.  This is much scarier to me.  My house is surrounded by two large forested areas and I know how dry they are right now, all it takes is one spark, one cigarette butt and I'll be packing my bags and fleeing.  I didn't sleep much last night and I expect the same tonight.

Edited by Chester B

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Silas_Sancona
1 hour ago, Chester B said:

I'm used to snow storms, severe thunderstorms and tornadoes.  This is much scarier to me.  My house is surrounded by two large forested areas and I know how dry they are right now, all it takes is one spark, one cigarette butt and I'll be packing my bags and fleeing.  I didn't sleep much last night and I expect the same tonight.

It is.. One of my cousins just lost their home up in the Santa Cruz Mountains about a week or so ago.. Just purchased about a year or two. Don't doubt  homes of people i knew in and after High school were damaged or lost as well. Sobering considering i have hiked through almost all areas effected by that fire and each time a different area of the county was put under evac. orders, i knew exactly where the fire was headed.  Same w/ the fire that was burning through the mountains on the opposite side of San Jose..  And those were all started by lightning..



 

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ahosey01
8 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

It is.. One of my cousins just lost their home up in the Santa Cruz Mountains about a week or so ago.. Just purchased about a year or two. Don't doubt  homes of people i knew in and after High school were damaged or lost as well. Sobering considering i have hiked through almost all areas effected by that fire and each time a different area of the county was put under evac. orders, i knew exactly where the fire was headed.  Same w/ the fire that was burning through the mountains on the opposite side of San Jose..  And those were all started by lightning..



 

I was reading that stucco homes with tile or metal roofs and a good ring of brush clearance can survive some pretty intense fires, because most of that material is not flammable.  Thought that was interesting.  Makes me want to replace my shingle roof! Lol

Edited by ahosey01

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Silas_Sancona
16 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

I was reading that stucco homes with tile or metal roofs and a good ring of brush clearance can survive some pretty intense fires, because most of that material is not flammable.  Thought that was interesting.  Makes me want to replace my shingle roof! Lol

I think they're better though i've seen pictures of homes built w/ both stucco and tile roofs burn. While still a few years away, have already decided that -whether i build it, or remodel an existing.. will likely go the block/ Hempcrete/ Greenstar Blox route when building a house.. and wrap the exterior in some sort of stone, even if i collect it myself.  Want to have living walls around the entryway/ back side of the house anyway.  Like the idea of a metal roof vs. pretty much every other option out there.

I know they're generally considered the cheapest/fastest to build but stick-built homes anywhere here in the west is just inviting trouble fire-wise. 

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Silas_Sancona

 Current #'s on the fires up in Oregon:

 

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GottmitAlex

Stay safe up there.

Prayers go out.

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Chester B

Fires are getting worse. Larger cities have been evacuated today and a few smaller communities are gone. 
Evacuations are right up to the suburbs. You can barely see with the smoke now.  We are very close to having to evacuate so are getting packed up now. The issue is where do you go when so many people are evacuating too. 
670,000 acres burning right now but the winds have been dying down and humidity is on the rise. Chance of rain next week. Fingers crossed. 

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Chester B

Was watching the news I guess its 1 million acres burning.  Rain starting Monday night so I hope we can all make it through until then.

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kinzyjr
2 hours ago, Chester B said:

Was watching the news I guess its 1 million acres burning.  Rain starting Monday night so I hope we can all make it through until then.

Hoping that you all get some rain to help control the fires and that you don't have to evacuate.

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JLM

My goodness, i thought the 5 Mile Swamp Fire here back in early summer was bad, this is a whole other level! Hope yall get some good rain, yall deserve it!

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Tyrone

Been watching this on the news over here. It sounds eerily similar to the fires we had here on the east coast of Australia. Take care and stay safe. Remember your lives and other peoples lives are more important than possessions. Sometimes it’s better to evacuate early than to risk it and get caught. It’s next to impossible to outrun a fire storm at the last minute. Roads often don’t run exactly where you want them too in an emergency fire situation. 

 

I hope the area gets a good bit of rain to extinguish it all quickly. 

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Moose

My son just moved from Lake Oswego. Bougt his first home 30 miles east of Salem along hwy 22. Things were very dodgy for a few days :bummed: 

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Moose

He moved in in April. Smoke is real bad but slowly improving. Traveling east from his home on hwy 22, it is a very bad scenario

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Chester B

Fortunately the fires have slowed so for now I am in good shape in my neck of the woods.  The smoke is absolutely horrendous, even inside you can smell it and it is giving us a few issues.  They are saying this coming weekend we could see some better quality air.  They are thinking tomorrow we will have some improvement so we may be drop below "Hazardous" for the first time in days.

I can actually see a whitish looking sun through the clouds for the first time in just over a week.

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Moose

Skies clearing and welcomed rain at my son's homestead. 

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James760
12 hours ago, Tyrone said:

What a bull crap article! How come they don't mention these fires are being started intentionally but arsonist? Several people have already been arrested. Every damn thing in this world that goes wrong is somehow always related to climate change/ global warming. I'm sick of it!

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UK_Palms
9 minutes ago, James760 said:

What a bull crap article! How come they don't mention these fires are being started intentionally but arsonist? Several people have already been arrested. Every damn thing in this world that goes wrong is somehow always related to climate change/ global warming. I'm sick of it!

But people have always started fires throughout history, whether accidentally or deliberately, and often to clear land for agriculture/livestock. It's nothing new. The difference is that conditions today allow the fires to burn more intensely and for longer, so it's easier for them to spread and become more severe. Summers are clearly hotter and drier than they used to be, at least in temperate and Mediterranean regions, which enables the fires to become established more easily, spread more easily and to become more severe than they used to be. 

It certainly never used to be as bad as this, and I am just going off my own experience here in the UK, never mind places like Australia or the west coast of the USA where the fire situation is far more extreme. This year alone, I have suffered several major fires in my county of Surrey and they seem to be getting worse and more frequent every year here. It's no coincidence that it also seems to be getting hotter and drier each year here as well. Again, I am only speaking from my own experience here at 51N, never mind the other 'high risk' fire hot spots around the world. In fact just last night, I was watching a documentary about the fires this summer in Siberia and the arctic. Says it all really.

Of course many people will agree with your views and disagree with mine. That's fine. We're all entitled to freedom of speech and we're allowed to make up our own minds up on issues. Nobody is obliged to think one way, just because someone else wants them to, which is a major issue that I have with the 'left' these days. I am pretty right wing myself to be honest, but I do still believe in climate change. It's a real issue and it is happening before our eyes. I am certainly seeing it here at least. Anyway, that's just my two cents. 

:greenthumb:

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Silas_Sancona
2 hours ago, James760 said:

What a bull crap article! How come they don't mention these fires are being started intentionally but arsonist? Several people have already been arrested. Every damn thing in this world that goes wrong is somehow always related to climate change/ global warming. I'm sick of it!

Both aspects, plus another, have contributed to the current situation playing out across the west atm. However,  the changes we're seeing  -on a bigger scale- are making what would be a relatively minor fire -Human caused, or started by lightning, explode into something extraordinary or unprecedented.. That is something that can no longer be denied.. Except by anyone who willfully chooses to.  I scratch my head wondering why anyone who gardens wouldn't be acutely aware to changes occurring in the environment around them..  Their choice of course but.. seems very counter intuitive..

To add to the bigger picture, have been reading through numerous articles related to the current fires, and the after- effects of other massive blazes ..and the Climate change signature is clear..  Both in what is making the situation worse, what will accelerate it in the years ahead,  and the after effects ..both for people, and how drastically the forests ( and deserts )we see today will be changed.

To that end, came across this study the other day.. while no time scales are given for suggested shifts and i do question a few of the suggestions, a pretty eye opening look at how different areas of the west could look in the future, particularly the panel just above figure #5. Study was conducted by the US Geological society, INSTAAR at the University of Colorado, and the University of Oregon..  https://geochange.er.usgs.gov/sw/impacts/biology/veg_chg_model/

That said, we humans have made some pretty stupid decisions regarding how to properly manage forests, esp in the Western U.S... I also question who thought it was a bright idea to string miles and miles of high voltage lines through the woods.. I'll never believe the excuse of " Well, the chances that a downed line would start a fire is low" That logic has been trashed. Time to do something completely different. If we can build Rail Road lines through them' hills, ..and a worthless wall, we can dig ditches for power lines, or, even better, seriously promote solar, esp for anyone living in the mountains/ other highly fire- susceptible areas, as well as outlaw stick built homes in these areas.

There will always be people whose accidental actions start fires, those who intentionally set them.. aka " Fire Bugs ",  the dude who intentionally lets his chains drag while towing something, and campers who'd thought they put their fire out before abandoning it along their journey through the woods.. Unfortunately, the consequences of those scenarios will be continuously amplified via an increasingly drier and hotter Western US.  California, and much of the west, may see more lightning sparked fires during the summer as well.

Our fire season, which would normally end by the second week in ..July.. is currently forecast to last well into late October, ..or November.. With the winter ahead looking quite dry, i won't be surprised if our fire season doesn't really "end" this year.  That isn't normal, no matter what anyone might assume.. 

Edited by Silas_Sancona
edit

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James760

@UK_Palms, I was pointing out the fact that they clearly left out a HUGE piece to how these wildfires we're started. Seems very disingenuous to say the least. That was the focal point of my post not the climate change issue. But since we're on the topic :hmm:

So first off I respect your's & @Silas_Sancona opinion/point of view/ your truth & @UK_Palms, freedom of speech does still exist 'currently ' thank God! :greenthumb: 

So let me start by saying I'm not a climate change denier. To the contrary I total admit climate is always & will always change. That human's play a big part in that, environmentally. Im totally for doing the right thing as far as recycling, picking up trash cleaning city's & smarter ways to get rid of waste, not polluting our lakes , rivers , oceans. All the above.  To what extent though? How long have humans documented weather for, 150 years? You think that's enough time to say there's global warming   & climate is changing? That if we don't do something in the next 11 years we're going to face the apocalypse! Im sorry, I'm not buying it... Actually, we are buying it. Who do you think is paying for all these ideas? Climate change is a muti-billion if not trillion dollar objective. Look at who's pushing this then who sponsors it. Follow the money. Dig in a bit. There's some nefarious characters in play. 

I admire that you guys have so much faith in the elite. That these people absolutely are not wicked & have no agenda. That they want to do this for the greater good, they know what's best for us anyhow. I'm just an illiterate peasant, what do I know... but I believe most people are good, that'll they'll do the right thing but to force this on us & willingly give up our rights? No thank you. 

Its simple; create the problem,  come up with the solution, control the out come. 

 

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James760

Screenshot_20200918-104348_Chrome.thumb.jpg.2cad41ccf597c3fb9761f9601e88f953.jpg

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James760

@Chester B, sorry for hijacking your thread. I'm just really disgusted with the main stream news reporting deceptively on our fires.

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Tyrone
6 hours ago, James760 said:

What a bull crap article! How come they don't mention these fires are being started intentionally but arsonist? Several people have already been arrested. Every damn thing in this world that goes wrong is somehow always related to climate change/ global warming. I'm sick of it!

Sorry mate. I won’t post anything then

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James760

@Tyrone, No, I'm sorry. I wasn't aiming 1 ounce of frustration at you but of the disinformation around the world & mainly USA. My apologies if I came off harshly towards you. That wasn't my intention. Same goes for @UK_Palms & @Silas_Sancona

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Silas_Sancona
39 minutes ago, James760 said:

Just for discussion, i'll add this..

So first off I respect your's & @Silas_Sancona opinion/point of view/ your truth & @UK_Palms, freedom of speech does still exist 'currently ' thank God! :greenthumb: 

So let me start by saying I'm not a climate change denier. To the contrary I total admit climate is always & will always change. That human's play a big part in that, environmentally. Im totally for doing the right thing as far as recycling, picking up trash cleaning city's & smarter ways to get rid of waste, not polluting our lakes , rivers , oceans. All the above.  To what extent though?  Any extent possible..  Definitely need to find better ways to recycle though. Shipping our trash elsewhere is just a head -scratcher. Got plenty of empty,  old manufacturing facilities we could put to good use.



How long have humans documented weather for, 150 years? Longer, depending upon what part of the world you research. 

You think that's enough time to say there's global warming  & climate is changing?  Going by studies constantly done by scientists?  yes.. Trends work themselves out as data is analyzed. By how much?.. where may we be headed in x time table?.. that is the less easily answered question.. Though the picture is becoming clearer, at least in the near-term.

That if we don't do something in the next 11 years we're going to face the apocalypse! Im sorry, I'm not buying it... 11 years does seem a bit " Rushed" and likely a bit exaggerated.. Still need to completely ditch Oil and Gasoline -anything-  Find better ways to build/ materials to build with.. 

Actually, we are buying it. Who do you think is paying for all these ideas? Everyone, as they should.. since each of our actions plays a part.  There is a certain %'age of those paying, who should be paying more however due to what they contribute to the problem..

Climate change is a muti-billion if not trillion dollar objective. True, like most other things. Look at who's pushing this then who sponsors it. Follow the money. Dig in a bit. There's some nefarious characters in play. Big Oil, Big AG.. PG&E.. Other Electricity/ Utility companies... Those who hate reasonable regulation ..of any kind, who want to tear up land, the bottom of the Ocean to mine for Oil, etc minerals at will, 'cuz they can ( or think they can )..

I admire that you guys have so much faith in the elite. No faith in any elite -anyone-.. faith in doing what is best for the environment and everything in it.. That these people absolutely are not wicked & have no agenda. Every living thing has an aganda.. Some motives may be wicked/ selfish/Psycho/Socio-pathic, most are not.. Good detective work is key to spotting the good looking bad apples, so to say.. No blinders over these eyes, lol..

That they want to do this for the greater good, they know what's best for us anyhow. I'm just an illiterate peasant  No one is a Peasant, or illiterate. what do I know... but I believe most people are good, that'll they'll do the right thing but to force this on us & willingly give up our rights? No thank you.  I Ask people i encounter, who choose not to wear masks during a serious pandemic and/or stand wayy too close the same question(s)... We wear Seat belts/ stay off the cell phone/ don't drink when driving?..  Put our children in car seats?.. Wear a Shirt/Shoes when shopping in pretty much any store/ restaurant / bar?  They're all reasonably enacted laws that keep people safe..  break them, and you suffer consequences.. Pricey ones too when they're ignored.. 

Its simple; create the problem,  come up with the solution, control the out come.  We've all contributed to the problem(s) ..  solutions to help solve them aren't that hard.

 

 

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James760

Geez @Silas_Sancona, your trying to make me work :P you know all your post are in black right? 

4 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

To what extent though?  Any extent possible.

Possibilities are endless & it depends on who you ask. Some say we need to depopulate the world! Its funny how some of these millionaire & billionaires say how "we" the masses need to make sacrifices to curb greenhouse emissions while they fly around on there private jets to their personal islands or multiple mansions driving there enormous yachts across the French Rivera. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Who wouldn't want that, just don't preach to me while virtue signaling to your sponsors/ endorses to donate more money to the cause.

I agree about shipping our trash & plastics over sea's are absurd. Costly & takes out of our country jobs & resources etc.. :greenthumb:

5 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

You think that's enough time to say there's global warming  & climate is changing?  Going by studies constantly done by scientists?  yes.. Trends work themselves out as data is analyzed. By how much?.. where may we be headed in x time table?.. that is the less easily answered question.. Though the picture is becoming clearer, at least in the near-term.

These such scientists are human. Man/ women have agendas.  Like you said every living thing has an agenda. This argument won't go anywhere only because I don't trust man. Man = deeply flawed, inherently evil, easily manipulated or bought. 

5 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

That if we don't do something in the next 11 years we're going to face the apocalypse! Im sorry, I'm not buying it... 11 years does seem a bit " Rushed" and likely a bit exaggerated.. Still need to completely ditch Oil and Gasoline -anything-  Find better ways to build/ materials to build with.. 

Agreed. Nuclear seems to be a good option. 

5 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Climate change is a muti-billion if not trillion dollar objective. True, like most other things. Look at who's pushing this then who sponsors it. Follow the money. Dig in a bit. There's some nefarious characters in play. Big Oil, Big AG.. PG&E.. Other Electricity/ Utility companies... Those who hate reasonable regulation ..of any kind, who want to tear up land, the bottom of the Ocean to mine for Oil, etc minerals at will, 'cuz they can ( or think they can )..

Government allows all this to happen. They have contracts with the oil Companies. PSA or PSC's. Look into there sponsors & donors as well as there stockholders. 

5 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I Ask people i encounter, who choose not to wear masks during a serious pandemic and/or stand wayy too close the same question(s)... We wear Seat belts/ stay off the cell phone/ don't drink when driving?..  Put our children in car seats?.. Wear a Shirt/Shoes when shopping in pretty much any store/ restaurant / bar?  They're all reasonably enacted laws that keep people safe..  break them, and you suffer consequences.. Pricey ones too when they're ignored.. 

We see through two different pair of eyeballs here. I'll just say nowhere in the Constitution of the United States says that states or government can force you to shut down your business/ lively hood that feeds your family, provide for all your needs, bring joy & worth to your life. They can not & should not infringe on those God given rights. Only time in the Constitution they can is during Marshall Law, durning war time / civil unrest *( stay tune for that to come) although I really hope not :bemused:.

Alcohol & cigarettes kill far more people than the Cov but we don't take away them? Obesity kills a heck of alot of people but we still let people eat McDonald's for breakfast/lunch/ & diner if they please. There are dangers every moment of our lives, everytime we step outside our house,  get behind the wheel of a car , skinny dip in the ocean etc.. we all agreed opon the risk dangers of living life. There's no good solution for this pandemic just bad & worse. If your sick & sneezing stay home.  Wear a mask. Dont go to grandma's for awhile. But we need to get on with life. We managed living fine pre-Cov. Will see how life is post-Cov & will it ever be the same? :bemused:

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sipalms
10 hours ago, James760 said:

How long have humans documented weather for, 150 years? You think that's enough time to say there's global warming   & climate is changing? That if we don't do something in the next 11 years we're going to face the apocalypse! Im sorry, I'm not buying it...

This is so true, far to uncomfortably true for many on the catastrophic climate change bandwagon.

Some say, that humans have caused the current warming, and that the current warming is going to kill us all (hence apocalypse is a word thrown around freely these days).

Record breaking temps in cities these days are often trumpeted by the climate change camp.

What they fail to take into account, is that 

a) Most city's record hot temperature was recorded often decades ago.

b) Humans have only accurately recorded temperatures, climate and changes in climate, for as you say 150 years at best. In the case of NZ, accurate records since the 1950s. Pathetic. Yet humans have happily (often unhappily, but not because of climate) existed here for many thousands of years! So how can we say the earth is warming because of us and our way of living, when we haven't recorded climate all the time we've been placed here?? 

And don't let us forget carbon. With more carbon, plants grow faster. Forests replenish quicker. Just saying. Amazing how the earth will never fail to be greater than any of us meagre humans......

Getting back to the wildfire point, the stupidity of not managing forests and blaming climate change when fires break out is unbelievable. Man has managed to evolve and change for so many centuries, why now do we victimise ourselves, politicize the issue, and fail to take measures to prevent damage to life and property when the earth is happily warming and cooling, likely nothing to do with us???? 

And, to your point about rubbish and pollution, I am a fervent hater of pollution, rubbish etc and poor waste management. I love this country so much, New Zealand's entire brand is based on one of purity and cleanliness and natural beauty. Sadly, many of those in positions of power and on the apocalyptic climate change bandwagon, have never stepped foot into the wilderness. Far easier to make policy from a comfortable air conditioned office while on a $175k salary.

Edited by sipalms
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sipalms

@Tyrone no one is telling you not to post!

One thing I noticed in that article you put the link on, is;

"Five of the 10 biggest fires in Californian history have occurred this season, according to Cal Fire."

Well according to Wikipedia:

The history of California can be divided into: the Native American period (about 10,000 years ago until 1542), the European exploration period (1542–1769), the Spanish colonial period (1769–1821), the Mexican period (1821–1848), and United States statehood (September 9, 1850–present).

Let's just rule out the first two of those periods, in terms of knowing how big the forest fires were..

So we could say with reasonable confidence, that the guy who said "Five of the 10 biggest fires in Californian history have occurred this season, according to Cal Fire." Is referring to at a very minimum, since 1769.

That's just 251 years ago, out of the at least 6000 that Man has been on Earth.... Hmmm...

What if 16 million people had lived in greater Los Angeles, 1000 years ago,  would it have been too hot/too cold, earthquakes etc, because of man? We don't know because we don't have written records.

On the subject of palms, NZ was once covered in palms, including coconuts and a unique coco like palm likely a relative of Jubaea Chilensis, many many thousands of years ago when the climate was much much warmer. Long before the invention of the combustion engine :floor:

Edited by sipalms
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sipalms

And yes, @Silas_Sancona I love your contributions but they are often extremely difficult to read, not sure if you know that they appear like this??

Screenshot_20200919-222252_Chrome.thumb.jpg.0c148034735f4483e2374abd9db659d8.jpg

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Silas_Sancona
3 hours ago, sipalms said:

And yes, @Silas_Sancona I love your contributions but they are often extremely difficult to read, not sure if you know that they appear like this??

Screenshot_20200919-222252_Chrome.thumb.jpg.0c148034735f4483e2374abd9db659d8.jpg

Interesting...and thanks for a heads up. I always re check before posting and not a singe thing ..anything i have ever posted -in the nearly 10 years here-.. looks like this..  Even when i pull up a thread done years in the past in another tab.. layout is normal. Only thing i can think of is i use Dark Night Mode on my Laptop.. ( overall site looks better too ) don't think that would alter how a thread is laid out. Weird..

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UK_Palms
15 hours ago, James760 said:

@UK_Palms, I was pointing out the fact that they clearly left out a HUGE piece to how these wildfires we're started. Seems very disingenuous to say the least. That was the focal point of my post not the climate change issue. But since we're on the topic :hmm:

So first off I respect your's & @Silas_Sancona opinion/point of view/ your truth & @UK_Palms, freedom of speech does still exist 'currently ' thank God! :greenthumb: 

So let me start by saying I'm not a climate change denier. To the contrary I total admit climate is always & will always change. That human's play a big part in that, environmentally. Im totally for doing the right thing as far as recycling, picking up trash cleaning city's & smarter ways to get rid of waste, not polluting our lakes , rivers , oceans. All the above.  To what extent though? How long have humans documented weather for, 150 years? You think that's enough time to say there's global warming   & climate is changing? That if we don't do something in the next 11 years we're going to face the apocalypse! Im sorry, I'm not buying it... Actually, we are buying it. Who do you think is paying for all these ideas? Climate change is a muti-billion if not trillion dollar objective. Look at who's pushing this then who sponsors it. Follow the money. Dig in a bit. There's some nefarious characters in play. 

Okay, so that's a fair point you make if they failed to mention that a lot of the fires are being started by arsonists, as opposed to faulty power lines or lightening. I get that. But at the end of the day pal, why are the fires as extreme as they are in recent years? Surely you must acknowledge that the scale of these fires didn't used to be like this? Even just 5-10 years ago, right? Whether you are in the US, Australia, Portugal, UK, France, Greece etc... things are clearly getting worse year on year. That is a fact. I can see it here, surely you can in SoCal of all places...?

The issue I have is that I am only 26, going on 27, but I have seen enough already in my lifetime to realise that climate change is happening here, like in my own backyard. I remember when I was a small kid at school, we used to have snow most winters and recesses/lunch breaks were often rained off due to heavy rainfalls. Fast forward 10-15 years however, and we rarely if ever have any snow here during winter and I rarely see any rain in general, if I am being honest. Like there are proper extended long, dry periods nowadays, which never used to happen. Even when it does rain, it is so light and barely amounts to anything these days. As I write this, my last measurable rainfall was 3 weeks ago now and that was only 0.2mm. That's definitely not normal for an oceanic climate at 51N in mid September.

It is as clear as day to me that the climate has flipped BIG time here since the year 2000 and things have taken a drastic turn in the past 5 years or so. Rainfall has declined massively, especially during spring/summer, plus temperatures in general are quite a bit higher than they used to be here. Again, I am only speaking for my area at 51N. At the same time however, I am not suggesting that we are facing an impending 'apocalypse' as you say. I don't want to try and fear monger or exaggerate a genuine issue. And climate change is a genuine issue, just like pollution and habitat loss in general. All 3 things are major issues for us to deal with. Not just climate change on it's own. I will also admit that we do not know how much humans are contributing to climate change at this stage, compared to how much of it is naturally occurring. Although I believe that the vast majority of it is caused by us humans. 

 

15 hours ago, James760 said:

I admire that you guys have so much faith in the elite. That these people absolutely are not wicked & have no agenda. That they want to do this for the greater good, they know what's best for us anyhow. I'm just an illiterate peasant, what do I know... but I believe most people are good, that'll they'll do the right thing but to force this on us & willingly give up our rights? No thank you. 

Its simple; create the problem,  come up with the solution, control the out come. 

Faith in the elite lol. You're on some Alex Jones sh*t pal. I base my opinions on what I see and experience. Not what the government or news tells me. F*ck them. I criticise the US and UK government as much as anyone and I certainly don't take their sh*t at face value without evaluating it at first. I look into things thoroughly and do my own research because I know not to trust any government or elitist mouth piece.

I am fairly right wing and highly critical of the media in general, but even I can't deny the evidence before my eyes, which clearly tells me that climate change is real, with an obvious warming trend and declining rainfall here. That's just what I have personally witnessed and experienced here. Not what I have been told by some dodgy government advisor. Just saying.

However, you can think what you like. We don't live in communist China or Russia. As I said, everyone has the right to freedom of speech and their own opinion. And I have made my own opinion clear on the climate change debate. Also, I'm not sure what rights the government are trying to take away from us, in relation to climate change? Can you explain please?

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Silas_Sancona
9 hours ago, James760 said:
  1. Geez @Silas_Sancona, your trying to make me work :P you know all your post are in black right?  Didn't.. Sipalms mentioned it.. Only two things i can think of causing the potential issue ( which never has occurred when i look over older posts, or the in-house tablet )  I use Dark Mode.. Though that hasn't ever caused an issue, that i'm aware of, before.. Took it off to reply here, we'll see what happens. If not, ohwell.. Good days work never hurts anyone, lol:D Those who use Apple products?, no clue and not something i concern myself with.. avoid apple -everything- like facebook ( Conspiricy po'looza ).. Both are dumpster worthy and way past " its cool " phase.

 

  • Possibilities are endless & it depends on who you ask. Some say we need to depopulate the world! Its funny how some of these millionaire & billionaires say how "we" the masses need to make sacrifices to curb greenhouse emissions while they fly around on there private jets to their personal islands or multiple mansions driving there enormous yachts across the French Rivera. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Who wouldn't want that?. Hard pass on anything close to that kind of life/lifestyle.. No boats/jet skis for me either.. Wouldn't mind an all electric off road vehicle though.

I agree about shipping our trash & plastics over sea's are absurd. Costly & takes out of our country jobs & resources etc..
 

  • These such scientists are human. Man/ women have agendas.  Like you said every living thing has an agenda. This argument won't go anywhere only because I don't trust man. Man = deeply flawed, inherently evil, easily manipulated or bought. Somewhat true.. a big reason i ditched " religion"  ..Top the list of some of the worst people i have ever known. Was raised Catholic/ part of my church for years. Divorced that nonsense right after high school.


 

  • Agreed. Nuclear seems to be a good option. Worst possible alternative. Where do we put spent fuel?.   Solar/Wind/ Wave generation/Geothermal/Algae.. Technologies surrounding each may still be in their infancy stages, but most are improving fast.
     
  • Government allows all this to happen. Actually High water/electricity rates, among other things.. is more our own fault than the Gvmts., Us, the people can shape the " fair-ness?" -if that's the right term, of how everything is priced. Have a list of places i'll never purchase from. Call out anyone that gauges customers, Nurseries included.  They have contracts with the oil Companies. PSA or PSC's. Look into there sponsors & donors as well as there stockholders. Check into stuff like that as needed.

 

  • We see through two different pair of eyeballs here. I'll just say nowhere in the Constitution of the United States says that states or government can force you to shut down your business/ lively hood that feeds your family, provide for all your needs, bring joy & worth to your life. Joy is in the eye of the beholder ( ..or Be joy-er?, lol ) No one needs a haircut, ..to get their nails done/ massages/ " pampering", ..car detailed/ waxed ( learn to do such things yourself.. have plenty of time to learn, esp. right now.. ) Buy grass seed, toxic fertilizer/pesticides, ..Go to a bar, Motorcycle rally, Concert, etc.. And yes, all those things can be ax-ed when necessary.. and should be.. I can still grocery shop/shop online if i want, step outside, go for a hike.. No one has come and taped up my front door, no armed guard outside waiting for me to even think of looking out the window, tell me when to eat, sleep, etc... so my freedoms are intact. Perhaps humans need to experience something shockingly gruesome to get the picture.  As far as making up any personal/ business -related loss incurred by a shutdown.. because, yes, people do have to live,  Much more energy should be butt sizzling-ly laser focused on those who should be helping out the people, not themselves/ their buddies.. than has been, not yelling at teachers or health care workers because, " ..my freedoms / Can't handle the stress of.. ( let alone teach ) the kids they chose to have".

 

  • They can not & should not infringe on those God given rights. Running around w/ out a mask is lacking concern for other people and infringing on their freedom, plain and simple. "God", if one actually exists, would likely be steaming mad at the " ..but my freedoms " train of thought. 

     
  • Only time in the Constitution they can is during Marshall Law, durning war time / civil unrest *( stay tune for that to come) although I really hope not :bemused:. Not likely, no matter what facebook crazies might fantasize. Think they might need to lay off the video games. Waist line would probably thank them too, lol..



 

  • Alcohol & cigarettes kill far more people than the Cov but we don't take away them? Use of both are declining, slowly.. but true, will never go away completely. Haven't drank since 2011.. Don't drink much soda/ eat red meat either. Not much of a veggie person either, which is kind of ironic, lol. 


 

  • Obesity kills a heck of alot of people but we still let people eat McDonald's for breakfast/lunch/ & diner if they please. Eat there myself -occasionally-,  Weight / waistline is still like it was in my early 20s.


 

  • There are dangers every moment of our lives, everytime we step outside our house,  get behind the wheel of a car , skinny dip in the ocean etc.. we all agreed opon the risk dangers of living life. Personal risk is one thing, Forcing others to risk death/ severe, long-term illness, ..due to -whatever- mindset makes some people think their rights are more important than everyone else's, is taking away other's freedom.

 

  • There's no good solution for this pandemic just bad & worse. Depends on the mind set i guess.. Being mindful of others, and enacting common sense rules -to help thwart a bad situation.. at the expense of fleeting, selfish interests-, for awhile- is better than the other option. No one is " missing out " on anything..   Anything important anyway..


 

  • If your sick & sneezing stay home.  Wear a mask. Dont go to grandma's for awhile. But we need to get on with life. When did life suddenly stop?
     
  • We managed living fine pre-Cov. This depends on who you talk to..

     
  • Will see how life is post-Cov & will it ever be the same? :bemused: Life will be fine.. perhaps better after this passes but i get that change is hard for some.. Not sure why though. regardless,  Hopefully, people who seem to have forgotten..  will learn what is actually important in life, ...and learn how to cut their own hair.. Have cut my own since i was 13.. That's was quite some time ago ;)



    Again, hopefully typing this w/out dark mode activated works.. if not, No worries.. Discussion swerving a bit much anyway..

 

Edited by Silas_Sancona
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Chester B

Back on topic, the wildfires have slowed significantly.  We've had a strong push of Ocean air along with humidity which has stopped the east wind (think Santa Ana) so the fires have pretty much stopped spreading towards heavily populated areas.   Plus we got the start of the rainy season.  Rain on Thursday overnight and yesterday dumped a ton.  Now our issues are falling trees and landslides.  More rain is predicted next week too.  The Hazardous air quality finally was pushed out by the rains after 12 days of hiding inside.  Yesterday was the first time I could actually see the sky and clouds since Labor day.  The Lionshead fire has been riding the west winds of the ocean and has spread on the eastern side of the Cascades and is actively burning towards and into the Warms Springs Reservation so that is a bit of a concern but that area is high desert so not much in the way of trees so should be easier to contain.

If the east winds had continued for even one more day I think the devastation would be many times worse than it is, but I am sure that's no small comfort for the people who have lost everything...

Hopefully these sorts of fires don't become the norm.  It was an unusual series of timing and conditions with the winds being the catalyst for it all.

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James760

One last thing & i'll end my rants :floor:

@UK_Palms, i could not post the link to the " Green new deal" but you can download it if you look it up. Its a short 14 page article.  The devil is in the details.  Also I'm so glad we're out of the Paris climate accord, another silly one.. Quick law off the top of my head is restricting the freedom of movement but I was speaking generally. It is my belief that the climate change / global warming objective will lead to socialism ( thats a whole other can of beans...) We give the government more power over our lives which we trust them to have restraint right? Like the old saying goes , all power tends to corrupt but absolutely power corrupts absolutely. I still stand by this statement I made, create the problem,  propose the solution,  control the outcome. Key word here is 'control'. 

I realize that we may never see eye to eye on certain topics,  that we have totally different views of the world but that's fine with me. I enjoyed this discussion thank you. 

@Silas_Sancona It worked!:yay: there no more black posts :greenthumb:

Same goes to you. Thank you gentlemen! Im sure they'll be more discussions in the future :greenthumb:

 P.S. Your still my best weather man! :floor:

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