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Texyn

The Italian South is a subtropical paradise

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Texyn

As soon as those ancient Romans started running their plantations, they knew they had it made when it concerning the climate. That's because the Italian South is a subtropical paradise, and the ancient Romans knew it, using the warm, dry, tranquil, subtropical climate to grow all sorts of cash crops like oranges, tomatoes, almonds, peaches, sugarcane, etc.

The Italian South rarely suffers from severe weather; all the thunderstorms that occur in the region are non-severe, and at the same time, put on spectacular lightning shows to wow the viewers. Lots of rain comes from these storms, but the rain is delivered in quick bursts, meaning that the sun has lots of room to shine, making for a climate that has BOTH lots of rain AND lots of sun.

Alot of people like to make the weak argument that the Italian South is cold during winter compared to other subtropical environments... well, that is false; the Italian South is very warm during winter, and it has many tropical winter days, where nightime lows are commonly above 55F in the MIDDLE OF WINTER. Cold fronts occur, yes, but by the time they reach the Italian South, they are nothing but breezes and windshifts, because at the low latitude, the cold front peters out. Also, every subtropical region in the world gets cold fronts, and temp variation during the cool season. The Italian South may appear to have extreme record lows compared to other subtropical environments, but that is because of the fact that such lows were recorded during a cold epoch (a period of cold weather that affects all subtropical regions at one time or another; in Spain's cold epoch, even Alicante saw blizzards!). Also, Italy has technology that is more advanced than other countries in the Med, so the temps will be recorded more accurately. The Italian South is so warm, it even has a tropical region OUTSIDE the tropics (Sicily), and its one of the few places in the world you can grow coconuts unprotected OUTSIDE the tropics (in the Ionian coast of Sicily and Malta). Subtropical mangrove trees line the entire coast from Rome southward; mangoes and bananas grow like weeds, lots of varied subtropical landscapes from lush coastal plains to grassy savannas with TROPICAL African grasses and cacti growing like weeds; mahogany and ficus being grown easily, native crocodilians and palms... just a few of the MANY characteristics that show just how warm the Italian South is.

People in Spain talking about how "cold" the US is have no idea how utterly cold their climate is in comparison to the warm, subtropical Italian DEEP south. The DEEP DEEP Italian South can be compared to the likes of tropical Australia, Mexico, and Subtropical India in terms of winter warmth.

All in all, the ancient Romans knew they have it made when it comes to climate; there is a reason why people settled in the Italian South, because of the subtropical paradise that was present. :)

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Texyn
38 minutes ago, Texyn said:

People in Spain talking about how "cold" Italy is have no idea how utterly cold their climate is in comparison to the warm, subtropical Italian DEEP south. The DEEP DEEP Italian South can be compared to the likes of tropical Australia, Mexico, and Subtropical India in terms of winter warmth.

Fixed

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kinzyjr

@Texyn Thank you for sharing!

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cm05

It’s such a shame that I’m at roughly the same latitude as Naples/Salerno (40°N), and their average low temperatures in Jan/Feb are a few degrees warmer than my average highs. I’m in zone 7 here on the coast, but the interior US at this latitude is like zone 5-6 so it could be much worse.

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greysrigging
On 9/9/2020 at 2:02 AM, Texyn said:

People in Spain talking about how "cold" the US is have no idea how utterly cold their climate is in comparison to the warm, subtropical Italian DEEP south. The DEEP DEEP Italian South can be compared to the likes of tropical Australia, Mexico, and Subtropical India in terms of winter warmth.

Well, whilst I admire your enthusiasm for the region, I think your perception of the Australian tropics might be little off the mark with a comparison to Scilly and Calabria.
The  deep south region is a well defined Mediterranean climate ( Koppen Csa ). In fact Reggio Calabria and Adelaide in South Australia match up pretty closely by climate stats. And trust me, no one in South Australia, or any where in Australia remotely thinks of Adelaide as 'tropical' or even 'sub tropical' 
Perth is another Aussie Med climate, and at a latitude of 32*S is a bit warmer in winter than Scilly and Calabria. Growing coconuts unprotected in the open is problematic even here ( although has been successful by a couple of Palmtalkers )
Most Aussies say that the sub tropics starts at about Brisbane an the east coast and about Carnarvon on the west coast ( except the desert reaches the sea on the west coast. ) And the Aussie tropics really begin somewhere north of Rockhampton in the east and Dampier in the west.

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Tyrone
On 9/13/2020 at 8:43 AM, greysrigging said:

Well, whilst I admire your enthusiasm for the region, I think your perception of the Australian tropics might be little off the mark with a comparison to Scilly and Calabria.
The  deep south region is a well defined Mediterranean climate ( Koppen Csa ). In fact Reggio Calabria and Adelaide in South Australia match up pretty closely by climate stats. And trust me, no one in South Australia, or any where in Australia remotely thinks of Adelaide as 'tropical' or even 'sub tropical' 
Perth is another Aussie Med climate, and at a latitude of 32*S is a bit warmer in winter than Scilly and Calabria. Growing coconuts unprotected in the open is problematic even here ( although has been successful by a couple of Palmtalkers )
Most Aussies say that the sub tropics starts at about Brisbane an the east coast and about Carnarvon on the west coast ( except the desert reaches the sea on the west coast. ) And the Aussie tropics really begin somewhere north of Rockhampton in the east and Dampier in the west.

I think Albany has similar winter temps to southern Italy. Southern Italy has much hotter summers though. Albany is similar to Adelaide in winter with about 3 times the rainfall. Trust me it ain’t tropical down here.

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veeman55
On 9/8/2020 at 12:32 PM, Texyn said:

As soon as those ancient Romans started running their plantations, they knew they had it made when it concerning the climate. That's because the Italian South is a subtropical paradise, and the ancient Romans knew it, using the warm, dry, tranquil, subtropical climate to grow all sorts of cash crops like oranges, tomatoes, almonds, peaches, sugarcane, etc.

The Italian South rarely suffers from severe weather; all the thunderstorms that occur in the region are non-severe, and at the same time, put on spectacular lightning shows to wow the viewers. Lots of rain comes from these storms, but the rain is delivered in quick bursts, meaning that the sun has lots of room to shine, making for a climate that has BOTH lots of rain AND lots of sun.

Alot of people like to make the weak argument that the Italian South is cold during winter compared to other subtropical environments... well, that is false; the Italian South is very warm during winter, and it has many tropical winter days, where nightime lows are commonly above 55F in the MIDDLE OF WINTER. Cold fronts occur, yes, but by the time they reach the Italian South, they are nothing but breezes and windshifts, because at the low latitude, the cold front peters out. Also, every subtropical region in the world gets cold fronts, and temp variation during the cool season. The Italian South may appear to have extreme record lows compared to other subtropical environments, but that is because of the fact that such lows were recorded during a cold epoch (a period of cold weather that affects all subtropical regions at one time or another; in Spain's cold epoch, even Alicante saw blizzards!). Also, Italy has technology that is more advanced than other countries in the Med, so the temps will be recorded more accurately. The Italian South is so warm, it even has a tropical region OUTSIDE the tropics (Sicily), and its one of the few places in the world you can grow coconuts unprotected OUTSIDE the tropics (in the Ionian coast of Sicily and Malta). Subtropical mangrove trees line the entire coast from Rome southward; mangoes and bananas grow like weeds, lots of varied subtropical landscapes from lush coastal plains to grassy savannas with TROPICAL African grasses and cacti growing like weeds; mahogany and ficus being grown easily, native crocodilians and palms... just a few of the MANY characteristics that show just how warm the Italian South is.

People in Spain talking about how "cold" the US is have no idea how utterly cold their climate is in comparison to the warm, subtropical Italian DEEP south. The DEEP DEEP Italian South can be compared to the likes of tropical Australia, Mexico, and Subtropical India in terms of winter warmth.

All in all, the ancient Romans knew they have it made when it comes to climate; there is a reason why people settled in the Italian South, because of the subtropical paradise that was present. :)

Sorry but Sicily is not tropical it gets cold blasts and in Jan Feb 2017 a cold snap killed cold Sensitive Musas and Papayas even in greenhouses from palermo even Cinisi to trapani to Mazara from Taormina to Syracuse and extreme south pozzallo. The only place somewhat spared but still got hit slightly was Messina.

Only parts of Calabria were spared this damage.

Not all of southern italy as you say is subtropical. Campania Puglia Sicily and even Sardinia gets damaging cold snaps 

 

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veeman55
8 hours ago, Tyrone said:

I think Albany has similar winter temps to southern Italy. Southern Italy has much hotter summers though. Albany is similar to Adelaide in winter with about 3 times the rainfall. Trust me it ain’t tropical down here.

Albany New York?

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bubba

Never saw a decent scraggly Queen palm on Sicily much less a coconut. The irony of the post is it’s coincidence with a real picture of a Cocos nucifera on San Miguel Island in the Azores! The furthest from the equator! The new Champeen!

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veeman55
On 9/14/2020 at 9:41 PM, bubba said:

Never saw a decent scraggly Queen palm on Sicily much less a coconut. The irony of the post is it’s coincidence with a real picture of a Cocos nucifera on San Miguel Island in the Azores! The furthest from the equator! The new Champeen!

Sorry to burst your bubble but the azorean palm is not coconut and roystonea regias grow well in southern italy. So do Papayas without protection in the extreme south which cant be said for southern california or most of southern europe. 

Mangos Annona Cherimoya Casimiroa Avocados Jackfruit Passion Fruit Annona Squamosa Atemoya Cavendish Bananas Alfonso Mangoes Ataulfo Mangoes Black Sapote Green Sapote Mallika Mangoes Nam Dok Mangoes. All thrive and ripen in the extreme south

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bubba

Please provide pictures of the Cocos nucifera growing “unprotected on the Ionian Coast of Sicily and Malta”. Additionally, it would be exhilarating to see the Mediterranean “ native crocodiles“ together with the “ mangroves and mahogany forests” that you claim in the South South portion of Italy.
 

Perhaps Italy has taken a new colony south of tropical India. I eagerly await your post of pictorial evidence demonstrating this previously unknown Italian province as well as its latitude and longitude! I thank you in advance!

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GottmitAlex
On 9/8/2020 at 9:32 AM, Texyn said:

 

People in Spain talking about how "cold" the US is have no idea how utterly cold their climate is in comparison to the warm, subtropical Italian DEEP south. The DEEP DEEP Italian South can be compared to the likes of tropical Australia, Mexico, and Subtropical India in terms of winter warmth.

All in all, the ancient Romans knew they have it made when it comes to climate; there is a reason why people settled in the Italian South, because of the subtropical paradise that was present. :)

By "DEEP, DEEP ITALIAN SOUTH", where is that exactly?

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sipalms
34 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

By "DEEP, DEEP ITALIAN SOUTH", where is that exactly?

@GottmitAlex am I seeing something, or are you questioning the voracity of another poster's claims on Palmtalk?! :o

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sipalms
13 minutes ago, sipalms said:

@GottmitAlex am I seeing something, or are you questioning the voracity of another poster's claims on Palmtalk?! :o

In saying this I would dearly love to know more about the Italian Deep South... I didn't know coconuts could grow in Italy...

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GottmitAlex
20 minutes ago, sipalms said:

@GottmitAlex am I seeing something, or are you questioning the voracity of another poster's claims on Palmtalk?! :o

I'm not questioning the veracity of anything. Just asking @Texyn, where exactly is he referring to as the deep, deep south of Italy. 

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greysrigging
2 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

I'm not questioning the veracity of anything. Just asking @Texyn, where exactly is he referring to as the deep, deep south of Italy. 

I wonder if they listen to Lynyrd Skynyrd in the deep deep south of Italy ? :greenthumb:

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bubba

The depth of this remote inner sanctum is so far deeply South South that all Etruscans, cousins of the Tyrrhenians, were known to blush.

Greysrigging, Did you know that the Jacksonville, Florida band to which you refer was named after there despised PE teacher? Did you know that Stephen Stills(Crosby, Stills and Nash/Southern Cross written by Stills) spent much formative time in Gainesville, Fl as were a number of the Eagles (guy who wrote Hotel California). Not to be outdone, Tommy Petty and the Heartbreakers, we’re also from Gainesville. Further south, the Allman Brothers Band rolled in Daytona Beach. At the end of the day however, my personal favorite, was Jim Morrison of the Doors, who was born in Melbourne, Florida. How about them deep south south apples?

Edited by bubba
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greysrigging
2 hours ago, bubba said:

The depth of this remote inner sanctum is so far deeply South South that all Etruscans, cousins of the Tyrrhenians, were known to blush.

Greysrigging, Did you know that the Jacksonville, Florida band to which you refer was named after there despised PE teacher? Did you know that Stephen Stills(Crosby, Stills and Nash/Southern Cross written by Stills) spent much formative time in Gainesville, Fl as were a number of the Eagles (guy who wrote Hotel California). Not to be outdone, Tommy Petty and the Heartbreakers, we’re also from Gainesville. Further south, the Allman Brothers Band rolled in Daytona Beach. At the end of the day however, my personal favorite, was Jim Morrison of the Doors, who was born in Melbourne, Florida. How about them deep south south apples?

Haha.... makes me want to break out into 'Sweet Home Calabria'.....
I have a great documentary video of the history of the band ( Skynyrd ) called 'If I Leave Here Tomorrow'  Was made in 2018.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6214722/

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bubba

Thank you and a great tribute! My personal favorites were Curtis Lowe and Simple Man. It is interesting to note that the band Lynerd Skynerd and Neil Young actually became good friends!

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greysrigging
2 hours ago, bubba said:

Thank you and a great tribute! My personal favorites were Curtis Lowe and Simple Man. It is interesting to note that the band Lynerd Skynerd and Neil Young actually became good friends!

'Simple Man' brings a tear to my eyes....:crying:

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Texyn
On 9/17/2020 at 5:32 AM, GottmitAlex said:

By "DEEP, DEEP ITALIAN SOUTH", where is that exactly?

By the "DEEP DEEP Italian South" I'm referring to the southern Sicilian coast, including the historic cities of Catania, Agrigento, Syracuse, etc. 

On 9/15/2020 at 12:50 AM, veeman55 said:

Sorry but Sicily is not tropical it gets cold blasts and in Jan Feb 2017 a cold snap killed cold Sensitive Musas and Papayas even in greenhouses from palermo even Cinisi to trapani to Mazara from Taormina to Syracuse and extreme south pozzallo. The only place somewhat spared but still got hit slightly was Messina.

Only parts of Calabria were spared this damage.

Not all of southern italy as you say is subtropical. Campania Puglia Sicily and even Sardinia gets damaging cold snaps

Pure nonsense. No climatologist, meteorologist, encyclopedia,etc has ever said such a thing. Just a simple look at the native ecosystem of the region can show off just how naturally warm and stable the climate of the region is. A lot of people are forgetting the fact that this cold spell is the result of the fact that the Cold Epoch has been skewing temps towards appearing colder in Southeastern Europe, with Western Europe being warmer and drier than normal as a result of the Dry Epoch affecting the area. Take record lows again in a warmer climactic state, and you won't be seeing temps anywhere near that cold.

On 9/15/2020 at 3:41 AM, bubba said:

Never saw a decent scraggly Queen palm on Sicily much less a coconut. The irony of the post is it’s coincidence with a real picture of a Cocos nucifera on San Miguel Island in the Azores! The furthest from the equator! The new Champeen!

The Italian South is subtropical paradise due to that Mediterranean Sea influence. It is a very warm ocean, like bath water, and thus, locations by the body of water have warm, dry subtropical climates compared to other places at the same latitude. The Italian South has NATIVE lions and parrots, as well as palm trees, all of which are indicators of warm climates. The Italian has a TROPICAL region OUTSIDE the tropics, that is how warm it is.

Subtropical evergreen forests near Palermo:

0d42d0b38f4a599fb89c86bc21435780.jpgXT108186-678x381.jpg

Coastal mangrove forest near Syracuse:

DSC_6173.jpg

00001788_mangrovelagoon_preview.jpg

Coconut and date palms in Palermo (read the name of pic; it's true):

coconut-palms-tropical-park-in-palermo-s

 

Edited by Texyn

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greysrigging

C'mon now champ... you've been posting this stuff on City Data Forums ( Weather ) too... and yes, you were using pics of a tropical forest in Northern Thailand and claiming it to be in Sicily. and when called out on it it, the pic all of a sudden became 'this is what some forests in Sicily looks like' .
The City Data Forum posts have been removed... but see mate, my finely tuned bs meter had me screen shot them.... 
Any mug can research climate stats.... figures generally don't tell fibs. Now, while I applaud your enthusiasm, let me tell you from one bull artist ( senior ) to an other ( amateur at best ), when you talk crap, you gotta base it on facts, and then embellish however you like. Trust me, it works fine, been doing it for umpteen years meself.....

"And there is a thread here by our southern Italian member too, peddling the Tropical Southern Italy line.... photos and all
 https://www.city-data.com/forum/weather/3000555-strange-unusual-climates-5.html#post59170749
This is the best one..."
"The Italian South is so lucky to have lush, subtropical, ever-green landscapes:" with this pic
Subtropical_semi-evergreen_seasonal_forest_in_Northern_Thailand.thumb.jpg.4b0d59bcca10cafca12ba53efa29fbf6.jpg.4da8afe3336034c7086c555a5242d1d1.jpg
But.... you guessed it.... The photo  is from Northern Thailand 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...n_Thailand.JPG
 
See champ, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time....

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bubba

STUMPED! Thank you Greys!

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sandgroper
5 hours ago, Texyn said:

 

 

 

Coconut and date palms in Palermo (read the name of pic; it's true):

coconut-palms-tropical-park-in-palermo-s

 

Where are the coconuts, I can't see any in this pic.

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Texyn
56 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

Where are the coconuts, I can't see any in this pic.

Read the name of the picture, and you will see a mention of that these are coconuts.

 

5 hours ago, greysrigging said:

C'mon now champ... you've been posting this stuff on City Data Forums ( Weather ) too... and yes, you were using pics of a tropical forest in Northern Thailand and claiming it to be in Sicily. and when called out on it it, the pic all of a sudden became 'this is what some forests in Sicily looks like' .
The City Data Forum posts have been removed... but see mate, my finely tuned bs meter had me screen shot them.... 
Any mug can research climate stats.... figures generally don't tell fibs. Now, while I applaud your enthusiasm, let me tell you from one bull artist ( senior ) to an other ( amateur at best ), when you talk crap, you gotta base it on facts, and then embellish however you like. Trust me, it works fine, been doing it for umpteen years meself.....

"And there is a thread here by our southern Italian member too, peddling the Tropical Southern Italy line.... photos and all
 https://www.city-data.com/forum/weather/3000555-strange-unusual-climates-5.html#post59170749
This is the best one..."
"The Italian South is so lucky to have lush, subtropical, ever-green landscapes:" with this pic
Subtropical_semi-evergreen_seasonal_forest_in_Northern_Thailand.thumb.jpg.4b0d59bcca10cafca12ba53efa29fbf6.jpg.4da8afe3336034c7086c555a5242d1d1.jpg
But.... you guessed it.... The photo  is from Northern Thailand 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...n_Thailand.JPG
 
See champ, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time....

 

2 hours ago, bubba said:

STUMPED! Thank you Greys!

This was some other poster who was trolling, impersonating me, thankfully he has been banned from there.

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sandgroper
17 minutes ago, Texyn said:

Read the name of the picture, and you will see a mention of that these are coconuts.

 

I'm sorry mate but these are not coconuts.

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GottmitAlex

But these are:

And no. There aren't any coconut groves here in the San Diego/Tijuana region. 32.5°

Some of those pictures have me baffled. 

I don't think coconuts can grow even in Malta.

 

 

20200918_155425.jpg

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Tyrone
10 hours ago, sandgroper said:

Where are the coconuts, I can't see any in this pic.

They are beautiful Phoenix dactylifera which certainly do not indicate a tropical climate at all. They will take snow and temps down to minus 7C. They exist in the WA wheatbelt which is dry and hot in summer and dry and freezing cold in winter. If only coconuts grew so easily in non tropical climates.

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Jimbean

Isn't Italy a Mediterranean climate?

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veeman55

Your out to lunch bud

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Vancouver_Palm-Riviera
On 9/19/2020 at 11:26 AM, Jimbean said:

Isn't Italy a Mediterranean climate?

A climate being Mediterranean does not disqualify it from being subtropical. In fact, all true Mediterranean climates are subtropical (Köppen Csa/Cfa classification). And by "true", I mean they are geographically Mediterranean. Not talking about Perth, Cape Town, Los Angeles, etc.

:floor::floor:

Edited by Vancouver_Palm-Riviera

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RJ
On 9/18/2020 at 5:03 AM, greysrigging said:

C'mon now champ... you've been posting this stuff on City Data Forums ( Weather ) too... and yes, you were using pics of a tropical forest in Northern Thailand and claiming it to be in Sicily. and when called out on it it, the pic all of a sudden became 'this is what some forests in Sicily looks like' .
The City Data Forum posts have been removed... but see mate, my finely tuned bs meter had me screen shot them.... 
Any mug can research climate stats.... figures generally don't tell fibs. Now, while I applaud your enthusiasm, let me tell you from one bull artist ( senior ) to an other ( amateur at best ), when you talk crap, you gotta base it on facts, and then embellish however you like. Trust me, it works fine, been doing it for umpteen years meself.....

"And there is a thread here by our southern Italian member too, peddling the Tropical Southern Italy line.... photos and all
 https://www.city-data.com/forum/weather/3000555-strange-unusual-climates-5.html#post59170749
This is the best one..."
"The Italian South is so lucky to have lush, subtropical, ever-green landscapes:" with this pic
Subtropical_semi-evergreen_seasonal_forest_in_Northern_Thailand.thumb.jpg.4b0d59bcca10cafca12ba53efa29fbf6.jpg.4da8afe3336034c7086c555a5242d1d1.jpg
But.... you guessed it.... The photo  is from Northern Thailand 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...n_Thailand.JPG
 
See champ, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time....

Fixed the link for you:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Subtropical_semi-evergreen_seasonal_forest_in_Northern_Thailand.JPG

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Jimbean
2 hours ago, Vancouver_Palm-Riviera said:

A climate being Mediterranean does not disqualify it from being subtropical. In fact, all true Mediterranean climates are subtropical (Köppen Csa/Cfa classification). And by "true", I mean they are geographically Mediterranean. Not talking about Perth, Cape Town, Los Angeles, etc.

:floor::floor:

I guess in my mind I was referring to subtropical climates that have dry mild winters and hot humid summers with abundant rainfall, within USDA hardiness zones 9 and 10.  Florida being a really good example. 

Edited by Jimbean

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