What's wrong with my trachy?

[NCFM]

I planted this trachy back in May, and it was doing great until about a week ago. The individual blades on several of the fronds have now closed up, and the emerging spears have some brown/discoloration. The palm is planted in full sun, and it is the dog days of summer, so maybe this is heat stress?

You can see here how the blades are closed/shut:

 

Here is what it looked like when I first planted it:

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

[DAVEinMB]

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast I had one with about 4 feet of trunk exhibit similar symptoms almost as if it was struggling to get water. Ended up being an issue with the roots due to poor drainage. I caught it too late and lost the palm 

Hopefully that's not the case for you but couldn't hurt to check what's going on with the soil

[NCFM]

1 minute ago, DAVEinMB said:

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast I had one with about 4 feet of trunk exhibit similar symptoms almost as if it was struggling to get water. Ended up being an issue with the roots due to poor drainage. I caught it too late and lost the palm 

Hopefully that's not the case for you but couldn't hurt to check what's going on with the soil

Thanks for the warning, I’ll get out there and check the soil ASAP. It’s planted in red clay so it wouldn’t surprise me if drainage is the issue 

[DAVEinMB]

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast trachies love water, especially with the heat we get but standing water is always no bueno. 

I attempted to save mine with daconil but was too late. I've since amended that planting location with a good bit of sand and some French drains 

[NCFM]

Just checked the soil. It’s moist (we’ve gotten some rain recently), but it does not seem flooded or overly wet. I put it in the ground with a mixture of the native red clay, some sand, and some potting soil. 

[GeorgiaPalms]

No voles in the area that may be chewing roots? I've lost a couple Sabals to voles, the leaves closed up like that and the the palm perished not shortly after.

[Allen]

Too much fertilizer I think.

[NCFM]

53 minutes ago, Allen said:

Too much fertilizer I think.

The only supplement I’ve given it is some Southern Ag Palm Nutritional Spray, and I believe I used only the recommended amount. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

[NCFM]

53 minutes ago, GeorgiaPalms said:

No voles in the area that may be chewing roots? I've lost a couple Sabals to voles, the leaves closed up like that and the the palm perished not shortly after.

I’ve never seen any sign of them in that area of the yard, but that’s a possibility. I’ll have to keep a lookout

[WSimpson]

It's hard to say , but be careful withe fertilizer and water , although I watered my Trachys a lot in the heat back a few years ago , and they couldn't get enough  .

When would you like to get some palms  ?

Will

Edited August 30, 2020 by Will Simpson

[NCFM]

2 hours ago, Will Simpson said:

It's hard to say , but be careful withe fertilizer and water , although I watered my Trachys a lot in the heat back a few years ago , and they couldn't get enough  .

When would you like to get some palms  ?

Will

I see, maybe I haven’t been giving it enough water? Although every time I’ve checked the soil up there it’s been slightly moist. 
 

Next Friday or Saturday would work if you’re available then 

[NCFM]

Bad news: just pulled the two emerging spears. They came out very easily, also appear to have some white fungal growth or something on them

[DAVEinMB]

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast drench the crown with peroxide

[NCFM]

15 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast drench the crown with peroxide

Will do. I assume the standard first aid hydrogen peroxide is fine to use?

Edited August 30, 2020 by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

[DAVEinMB]

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast yes sir that's the one

[NCFM]

4 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast yes sir that's the one

All right. Thanks so much for the help. I wonder what caused this to happen?

[DAVEinMB]

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast no problem, hopefully you'll see a new spear attempt to push out once you treat the crown. 

Unfortunately I don't have any first hand experience with trachies that size but if the spears pulled it could be caused by water sitting in the growth point. Has your summer been rainier than normal? We've had a wet one here on the coast

Edited August 30, 2020 by DAVEinMB

[NCFM]

16 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast no problem, hopefully you'll see a new spear attempt to push out once you treat the crown. 

Unfortunately I don't have any first hand experience with trachies that size but if the spears pulled it could be caused by water sitting in the growth point. Has your summer been rainier than normal? We've had a wet one here on the coast

This summer has been a little more wet than usual, but being in full sun I would’ve figured that any sitting water in the growth point would’ve been evaporated before it could cause major problems?

[DAVEinMB]

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast yea if it's getting full sun rain shouldn't be an issue

Edited August 30, 2020 by DAVEinMB

[NCFM]

43 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast yea if it's getting full sun rain shouldn't be an issue

Hmm. This one has got me scratching my head. Maybe I did give it too large a dose of the nutritional spray, or maybe this is a result of the stress from being planted out in full sun?

[WSimpson]

Sorry about the spear pull , but I've had young Trachys regrow their spear . 

Good luck .

[UK_Palms]

14 minutes ago, Will Simpson said:

Sorry about the spear pull , but I've had young Trachys regrow their spear . 

Good luck .

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast I've had a young Trachycarpus Nova spear pull after a winter that went down to 20F with the spear dislodging a month or so later, in early spring. That's common for Nova's though. But I assume this however is a Fortunei?

I have never heard of a Trachy spear pulling during the summer months. The only thing I can put it down to is root damage and transplant shock. Failing that, could your soil be contaminated or have an excess of something that Trachy's, or palms in general, do not like? The soil looks good in the pictures, but there definitely isn't any runoff going into it is there? Or any contaminants getting washed into it?

With your high temperatures in summer, the more water a Trachy gets, the better.  I don't think excess water is the issue here. In the native range of Fortunei they are very hot and wet during the summer months, bordering on summer monsoonal climate. Fortunei will sit in submerged floodwater, providing it isn't wet-cold weather with temperatures below say 50F.

I would however argue that it is pretty hard to make a Trachy cough up it's spear in summer, unless it's transplant shock or something more serious going on in the background, undetected... 

[DAVEinMB]

3 hours ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Hmm. This one has got me scratching my head. Maybe I did give it too large a dose of the nutritional spray, or maybe this is a result of the stress from being planted out in full sun?

the more I think about it I'm thinking it's an issue with the roots. All of the fronds are closed up indicating the plant is struggling to get water. If it was planted in may there's a good chance something has been slowly damaging the roots to the point that it finally showed physical signs this past week. The spear pull could be explained by a combination of newly transplanted / root complications / high heat weakening the plant enough to make it susceptible to infection. Did the peroxide foam when you applied it? You also may want to do a daconil soak in the root zone as well...

[NCFM]

27 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast I've had a young Trachycarpus Nova spear pull after a winter that went down to 20F with the spear dislodging a month or so later, in early spring. That's common for Nova's though. But I assume this however is a Fortunei?

I have never heard of a Trachy spear pulling during the summer months. The only thing I can put it down to is root damage and transplant shock. Failing that, could your soil be contaminated or have an excess of something that Trachy's, or palms in general, do not like? The soil looks good in the pictures, but there definitely isn't any runoff going into it is there? Or any contaminants getting washed into it?

With your high temperatures in summer, the more water a Trachy gets, the better.  I don't think excess water is the issue here. In the native range of Fortunei they are very hot and wet during the summer months, bordering on summer monsoonal climate. Fortunei will sit in submerged floodwater, providing it isn't wet-cold weather with temperatures below say 50F.

I would however argue that it is pretty hard to make a Trachy cough up it's spear in summer, unless it's transplant shock or something more serious going on in the background, undetected... 

Yes it is fortunei, and I just planted it back in May so it’s yet to see any cold temps.
 

Maybe this does have to do with transplant shock, as I put it in full sun but neglected to acclimate it to such conditions prior to planting. It was shade grown by the nursery I purchased it from. Although, it seemed to be fine up until this month.
 

The only possible contaminants I can think of is that one of the neighbor’s dogs might be peeing on the palm when she brings it by on her morning walk. This is only speculation, however, as I’ve never actually seen it happen. All of the other plants in that natural area have never had any issues, though. 

[NCFM]

12 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

the more I think about it I'm thinking it's an issue with the roots. All of the fronds are closed up indicating the plant is struggling to get water. If it was planted in may there's a good chance something has been slowly damaging the roots to the point that it finally showed physical signs this past week. The spear pull could be explained by a combination of newly transplanted / root complications / high heat weakening the plant enough to make it susceptible to infection. Did the peroxide foam when you applied it? You also may want to do a daconil soak in the root zone as well...

Perhaps I need to start watering it more regularly then? My other Trachycarpus which is in part shade on the other side of the house is growing well, but the soil it is in is a little more wet. 
 

I wonder what could be damaging the roots if that is the case? There are no apparent signs of voles or anything like that
 

Yes the peroxide did bubble. I read online that I should continue to apply it every 2-3 days until it stops bubbling, so I guess that’s what I’ll do. 

[DAVEinMB]

17 minutes ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Perhaps I need to start watering it more regularly then? My other Trachycarpus which is in part shade on the other side of the house is growing well, but the soil it is in is a little more wet. 
 

I wonder what could be damaging the roots if that is the case? There are no apparent signs of voles or anything like that
 

Yes the peroxide did bubble. I read online that I should continue to apply it every 2-3 days until it stops bubbling, so I guess that’s what I’ll do. 

If the roots are comprised by some sort of fungus additional watering won't help as they won't be able to absorb it. I would start with a good daconil drench - I've been using 1 tbsp per gallon of water with good results. 

Definitely keep up with the peroxide, it works miracles. Trachies are tough so don't count it out just yet

[UK_Palms]

24 minutes ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Yes it is fortunei, and I just planted it back in May so it’s yet to see any cold temps.
 

Maybe this does have to do with transplant shock, as I put it in full sun but neglected to acclimate it to such conditions prior to planting. It was shade grown by the nursery I purchased it from. Although, it seemed to be fine up until this month.
 

The only possible contaminants I can think of is that one of the neighbor’s dogs might be peeing on the palm when she brings it by on her morning walk. This is only speculation, however, as I’ve never actually seen it happen. All of the other plants in that natural area have never had any issues, though. 

If the issue was shock/sunburn from it being used to shade but then planted in direct sunlight, you would be seeing the fronds actually getting scorched a golden/brown sort of colour. I don't see that on your palm. This will also show up pretty quickly if the palm isn't used to direct sunlight, meaning if you planted it in May, you would see the sunlight damage by June. I often make this mistake myself during the spring, when moving palms outside that have been overwintered indoors, without properly acclimatising them, thus resulting in sunburn. Again, I don't see this in your pictures.

Also dog pee isn't going to effect, let alone kill, a palm. If anything it's a bit of extra nitrogen which should be a good thing. If the dog is peeing on it on a daily basis, or twice a day even, that's probably going to be an issue however, but I can imagine that the palm may have to deal with one dog pee soaking a week or something, right? In which case it won't be an issue.

The other possibility is that it is just a bad, rogue palm and destined not to succeed. I mean it happens. Some palms are just destined to failure and death, whether that is from a lack of vigour, lack of defence/immune strength, random diseases, damage you can't see etc. Sometimes a palm, or plant, just dies. Sometimes you can't explain it. One day they stop looking healthy and before you know it, they are suddenly withering away. It's just luck of the draw. If you've ever started a large batch of seedlings, you'll know what I mean.

I hope you can resolve the issue though of course...

[NCFM]

6 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

If the roots are comprised by some sort of fungus additional watering won't help as they won't be able to absorb it. I would start with a good daconil drench - I've been using 1 tbsp per gallon of water with good results. 

Definitely keep up with the peroxide, it works miracles. Trachies are tough so don't count it out just yet

Will do. Thanks again for all your help!

Looks like we’re going to get some rain tomorrow, should I cover the palm with a tarp or something to prevent water from going down the hole left by the pulled spears?

 

[NCFM]

2 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

If the issue was shock/sunburn from it being used to shade but then planted in direct sunlight, you would be seeing the fronds actually getting scorched a golden/brown sort of colour. I don't see that on your palm. This will also show up pretty quickly if the palm isn't used to direct sunlight, meaning if you planted it in May, you would see the sunlight damage by June. I often make this mistake myself during the spring, when moving palms outside that have been overwintered indoors, without properly acclimatising them, thus resulting in sunburn. Again, I don't see this in your pictures.

Also dog pee isn't going to effect, let alone kill, a palm. If anything it's a bit of extra nitrogen which should be a good thing. If the dog is peeing on it on a daily basis, or twice a day even, that's probably going to be an issue however, but I can imagine that the palm may have to deal with one dog pee soaking a week or something, right? In which case it won't be an issue.

The other possibility is that it is just a bad, rogue palm and destined not to succeed. I mean it happens. Some palms are just destined to failure and death, whether that is from a lack of vigour, lack of defence/immune strength, random diseases, damage you can't see etc. Sometimes a palm, or plant, just dies. Sometimes you can't explain it. One day they stop looking healthy and before you know it, they are suddenly withering away. It's just luck of the draw. If you've ever started a large batch of seedlings, you'll know what I mean.

I hope you can resolve the issue though of course...

I see. Well, I’ll do what Dave suggested and give it a good soaking of draconil, and keep applying hydrogen peroxide. But, if that doesn’t work, it’s not the end of the world. Palms can be replaced, and like you said this one may just have been destined to fail. 
 

Thanks for your help

[DAVEinMB]

7 minutes ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Will do. Thanks again for all your help!

Looks like we’re going to get some rain tomorrow, should I cover the palm with a tarp or something to prevent water from going down the hole left by the pulled spears?

 

Absolutely man, keeping palms alive and healthy is the name of the game. 

I'd def try to keep water out of the crown until it looks like it's pushing a spear

[NCFM]

Well, it’s been a little over a week since I treated the palm with a gallon of fungicide and started spraying the growth point with peroxide. The newest frond has now turned brown, and the closed fronds haven’t shown any improvement. I assume this is a bad sign?

[DAVEinMB]

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast that's not good at all. I would continue watering as normal and treat the crown with peroxide as long as it keeps fizzing. A gallon of daconil mixture is more than enough for a plant that size so i wouldn't treat the soil any more. Mark the center spear and see if it's trying to push out any. 

[Chester B]

I'd give it a couple months to see any new growth.  If it starts pushing spears again they will come in deformed at first.  Just have patience and I would plan on some sort of protection this winter considering your zone and its weakened state.

[NCFM]

42 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@NC_Palm_Enthusiast that's not good at all. I would continue watering as normal and treat the crown with peroxide as long as it keeps fizzing. A gallon of daconil mixture is more than enough for a plant that size so i wouldn't treat the soil any more. Mark the center spear and see if it's trying to push out any. 

All right. There actually isn’t a spear to mark at the moment since they both pulled 

[NCFM]

32 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I'd give it a couple months to see any new growth.  If it starts pushing spears again they will come in deformed at first.  Just have patience and I would plan on some sort of protection this winter considering your zone and its weakened state.

Will do. At what temps would you recommend I protect it? 

[Chester B]

I would say if it doesn't have new growth pushing out, I'd at least cover it with a sheet anytime you think you might get frost.  Wouldn't want that to get in the hole.

If it is growing on well, I'll leave that to the local experts to advise you.

[DAVEinMB]

18 minutes ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

All right. There actually isn’t a spear to mark at the moment since they both pulled 

Oh that's right, keep the hole as dry as possible and monitor for activity. Will likely take awhile to see anything on the positive side

[GregVirginia7]

I discovered the hard way not to mess with the roots...my first attempt at a Trachy looked like that and I think it was because I teased the roots and loosened them pretty vigorously...read later that’s a big no-no...not that that’s the problem here but my outcome was much like this...

[NCFM]

54 minutes ago, GregVirginia7 said:

I discovered the hard way not to mess with the roots...my first attempt at a Trachy looked like that and I think it was because I teased the roots and loosened them pretty vigorously...read later that’s a big no-no...not that that’s the problem here but my outcome was much like this...

I did the same with this one. Like you, I’ve since learned not to do that. Did your palm end up making it?

[GregVirginia7]

Not the one I learned on...but my second one has done great...