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James B

Rhopalostylis Cheesemanii vs Oceana.

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James B

Considering picking up one or the other but want to go with the faster more robust grower.

For those members who have grown both these palms I’m curious to hear your input on which has been the superior palm for you!

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PalmCode

I like them both equally.  If you want a larger, fast robust grower, go for the Oceana. If you want a slightly more tropical looking palm with more curved fronds, go for the Cheesemanii. Why not get both if you can. 

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joe_OC

I have Catham Island next to Cheesmanii.  I want to say that Catham Island is synonymous with Oceana.  Cheesmanii is going to be much more petite in comparison.  

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James B
1 hour ago, joe_OC said:

I have Catham Island next to Cheesmanii.  I want to say that Catham Island is synonymous with Oceana.  Cheesmanii is going to be much more petite in comparison.  

Have you noticed a different in speed of growth Joe?

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Darold Petty

In my warmth-deprived microclimate R. sapida 'Chatham Island' is more robust while R. baueri v. Cheesemanii is faster growing.

First picture with me is Chatham.

R. sapida 'Chatham Is.'.JPG

IMG_4157.JPG

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Gary
2 hours ago, James B said:

Considering picking up one or the other but want to go with the faster more robust grower.

For those members who have grown both these palms I’m curious to hear your input on which has been the superior palm for you!

if you want robust track down a Little Barrier sapida

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Darold Petty

Gary, I believe that not all Little Barrier Island palms will develop the robust habit shown in Keith Boyers book.  I had one, seed collection by Keith directly, and it failed to grow any larger than a generic R. sapida.  I removed it a few months ago, it had about 4 meters of trunk. 

  Regarding the photo with the woman in the blue blouse and big sunglasses in Keith's book, he told me that the woman was quite petite, and that he posed her next to the largest one he found on the island.  I was sorely disappointed when mine failed to achieve the size of the book image palm.   :)

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James B
22 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

In my warmth-deprived microclimate R. sapida 'Chatham Island' is more robust while R. baueri v. Cheesemanii is faster growing.

First picture with me is Chatham.

R. sapida 'Chatham Is.'.JPG

IMG_4157.JPG

Yours are show stoppers every time I see that pic. Incredible!

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Gary

Darold you are correct but the same goes for chathams as some are just rubbish looking.Kermadec usually like you expect.Pic in Keiths book belonged to Bryan Laughland and correct again small woman large palmI have a palm grown from seed off that  one that Bryan use to own and is a big palm.Keith seed was probably from his own plants.Your chathams is much nicer than many here in Auckland.Ones in pic are pitt island and probably 30yrs old or more

palms 2429.JPG

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Darold Petty

Luck of the draw sometimes ?  Boy, I would really like to visit you guys in NZ ! I was there just once, as Keith's guest in year 2000.  Seems like it might be a long wait befoe we contaminated Yanks can travel again!  :mrlooney:

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joe_OC
1 hour ago, James B said:

Have you noticed a different in speed of growth Joe?

For coastal Southern California, the Catham Island is faster.  I will post pics of both palms.

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joe_OC

These palms were the same size 11 years ago:

B369D7C0-F3F6-42A4-B92D-497C76BE59A8.thumb.jpeg.44052c98e588aed7a82b3ed931b723bf.jpeg

4DF9219E-FDE3-4BFF-BAE3-92C1A1BFC35A.thumb.jpeg.fb527637be04f25ddd756a5424f04332.jpeg

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DoomsDave

Joe, holy cow, bull, rhino, elephant . . . .

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PalmCode
1 hour ago, Gary said:

Darold you are correct but the same goes for chathams as some are just rubbish looking.Kermadec usually like you expect.Pic in Keiths book belonged to Bryan Laughland and correct again small woman large palmI have a palm grown from seed off that  one that Bryan use to own and is a big palm.Keith seed was probably from his own plants.Your chathams is much nicer than many here in Auckland.Ones in pic are pitt island and probably 30yrs old or more

palms 2429.JPG

Have you been to see the Pitt island nikaus growing at  the Auckand palm centre in Albany? His ones are huge! They're the best looking Nikau I think Iv'e ever seen.

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Gary

that's would be Trevor Clarks place on the prison route.He would look after his better than a lot of us.Pitt I find a mixed bag of really nice to ugly whereas kermadec normally turn out what you would expect.Trevors probably came from a Graeme Platt seed collection

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James B

Is it better to go with a 15 gallon in either of those palms vs a 5 due to speed of growth?

Or are these like Archontophoenix where a 5 gal will eventually pass by a 15 gallon and be more robust overall?

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Gary

also consider they have elbow and travel sidewards in a container.Sapida seems to travel move than baueri.first pic pitt 2nd baueri

SANY3677.JPG

SANY3680.JPG

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richnorm
6 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Gary, I believe that not all Little Barrier Island palms will develop the robust habit shown in Keith Boyers book.  I had one, seed collection by Keith directly, and it failed to grow any larger than a generic R. sapida.  I removed it a few months ago, it had about 4 meters of trunk. 

  Regarding the photo with the woman in the blue blouse and big sunglasses in Keith's book, he told me that the woman was quite petite, and that he posed her next to the largest one he found on the island.  I was sorely disappointed when mine failed to achieve the size of the book image palm.   :)

Ha, yes that photo sold a lot of Little Barriers!  But there are some cool forms on Little Barrier so it's not a complete myth.   One group I saw had extra wide leaf scars set on the diagonal to give almost a Ceroxylon look.

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Tyrone

Don’t forget how well a palm is cultivated can have a big effect on how big and bulky it turns out. The DNA of the plant is one thing and then giving it luxury amounts of what it needs can make a big difference. You see that a lot with Archontophoenix. Some Bangalows are big bulky monsters with wide spaced rings because of heaps of water, then others in drier soil and less nutrition from the same seed batch turn out ordinary.

I saw a similar thing with Howea. I had one in Perth that was growing over my leach drain. I fertilised it and watered it a lot and the base of it was the size of an elephants foot. When we went to LHI we were struggling to find anything close until we went to a mutton bird breeding ground full of Howeas. Here they were bulky things because of all the underground bird burrows that would have had heaps of bird manure and probably the odd dead muttonbird as well. The Howeas just soaked it all up.

So a Chatham Island with maybe Darolds one DNA and everything it needs in luxury amounts in a good climate could become a huge monster like his is.

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joe_OC
23 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

In my warmth-deprived microclimate R. sapida 'Chatham Island' is more robust while R. baueri v. Cheesemanii is faster growing.

First picture with me is Chatham.

R. sapida 'Chatham Is.'.JPG

IMG_4157.JPG

Love your Rhopies, Darold.  How old are they?

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Gary

here some general pics of  pitt nikau and baueri  round Auckland  taken today that are council controlled plantings.

SANY3695.JPG

SANY3696.JPG

SANY3698.JPG

SANY3701.JPG

SANY3703.JPG

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PalmCode
On 8/28/2020 at 3:33 PM, James B said:

Is it better to go with a 15 gallon in either of those palms vs a 5 due to speed of growth?

Or are these like Archontophoenix where a 5 gal will eventually pass by a 15 gallon and be more robust overall?

Good question.  Rhopalostylis can take time acclimatizing to their new home in the ground regardless of size. If you plant them well to their size and keep them watered there's probably no real difference over all.

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sipalms
2 hours ago, Gary said:

here some general pics of  pitt nikau and baueri  round Auckland  taken today that are council controlled plantings.

Have you noticed that all the BP gas stations Auckland and Northland, have what appears to be Pitt Island Nikau as part of their landscaping??

I spend a fair bit of time around AKl and Northland for work, from outside observation it would seem as though the one supplier has been used for the supply of palms to BP's in those regions.

Here's some at a BP in East Tamaki I took in July, as you can see they get pretty aggressively pruned...

20200805_123602.thumb.jpg.ae1a567e4f401ba31f0af48b1d47cf3e.jpg

20200805_123558.thumb.jpg.a2ad15df658055a92d6b68d61c4e8272.jpg

I've also often observed the many at Warkworth BP and convinced they're Pitt Is. as well. (Photos courtesy of Google Street view)

Screenshot_20200829-195021_Maps.thumb.jpg.527330ef35e72e773c29d1759dfe8e81.jpg

Screenshot_20200829-195208_Maps.thumb.jpg.acbce611a853471e6d1ed80f85e6f65e.jpg

 

 

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Gary

I guess supply and demand as Pitt is what nurseries want .Baueri are quite hard to find as a nursery plant and seed in large amount is difficult to source.I am hoping to germinate 10k plus at present for a nursery request but just have to wait and see.The idea for the nursery is too inground the bulk on the 2 sites they own and make it their 10yr project.

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Moose
On 8/27/2020 at 10:13 PM, joe_OC said:

These palms were the same size 11 years ago:

B369D7C0-F3F6-42A4-B92D-497C76BE59A8.thumb.jpeg.44052c98e588aed7a82b3ed931b723bf.jpeg

4DF9219E-FDE3-4BFF-BAE3-92C1A1BFC35A.thumb.jpeg.fb527637be04f25ddd756a5424f04332.jpeg

A temperate palm thriving next to an AeAe banana - go figure :huh:

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Gary

these are at my place and pic 2018-v leaf is pitt and flat leaf is kermadec which has taken off now and left pitt behind.Palm at back is a natural Auckland form self sown 

palms 2045.JPG

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Gary
On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 1:24 PM, Gary said:

Darold you are correct but the same goes for chathams as some are just rubbish looking.Kermadec usually like you expect.Pic in Keiths book belonged to Bryan Laughland and correct again small woman large palmI have a palm grown from seed off that  one that Bryan use to own and is a big palm.Keith seed was probably from his own plants.Your chathams is much nicer than many here in Auckland.Ones in pic are pitt island and probably 30yrs old or more

palms 2429.JPG

Correction on photo in Keiths book of Little Barrier nikau  which is his own photo and not Bryans at all.Apparently woman in pic is taller than me and I am 165cm. 

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Darold Petty
On 8/28/2020 at 5:19 PM, joe_OC said:

Love your Rhopies, Darold.  How old are they?

Joe   I won't be able to access my  records until next Friday.

 

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Gary

more pitt nikau street planting  pics from today.That is enough now toget an idea what they look like in several situations .There would be round 100 palms in all the pics recently.Note as street plantings flowers get removed.There was concerns with people getting sore foot from walking on fallen seed in the past. 

SANY3712.JPG

SANY3713.JPG

SANY3716.JPG

SANY3718.JPG

SANY3721.JPG

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cbmnz

Do Chattam and Pitt tend to have whiter petiole than other forms, or is petiole colour dependant on growing situation, or just random?

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Gary
3 hours ago, cbmnz said:

Do Chattam and Pitt tend to have whiter petiole than other forms, or is petiole colour dependant on growing situation, or just random?

read herejohn prince.htm

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sipalms
4 hours ago, cbmnz said:

Do Chattam and Pitt tend to have whiter petiole than other forms, or is petiole colour dependant on growing situation, or just random?

From my completely non-scientific observations, Chatham/Pitt most definitely do have a distinctly more white petiole than mainland and other varieties.

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cbmnz
21 hours ago, Gary said:

read herejohn prince.htm

"Unlike its mainland relatives ... the indumentum on the mature leaves of the Chatham Islands variant ... is silvery grey to white, leading to the suggestion that petiolar scale morphology may have taxonomic value (Stalker 1998) and, thus, may prove helpful in identifying juveniles" I think this is saying that Chatham forms hold the silvery colour of petiole into maturity to greater extent than others.

The article then went onto say it was not very useful in distinguishing juveniles though.

 

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Albey
On 8/28/2020 at 2:42 PM, PalmCode said:

Have you been to see the Pitt island nikaus growing at  the Auckand palm centre in Albany? His ones are huge! They're the best looking Nikau I think Iv'e ever seen.

I agree - He has the biggest most robust Pitt Island Nikaus i have ever seen ( So i bought 4x Palms )

Here is a pic of one of mine with heavy indumentum on the fronds compared to other forms i have in the garden.

Pic 1 = R.chathamica 'pitt island'

Pic 2 = R.baueri 'raoul island'

Pic 3 = R.sapida 'great barrier island'

Pic 4 = R.sapida 'banks peninsula'

R.chathamica pitt island2.jpg

R.baueri raoul island2.jpg

R.sapida great barrier2.jpg

R.sapida banks peninsula2.jpg

Edited by Albey
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sipalms
13 minutes ago, Albey said:

I agree - He has the biggest most robust Pitt Island Nikaus i have ever seen ( So i bought 4x Palms )

Here is a pic of one of mine with heavy indumentum on the fronds compared to other forms i have in the garden.

Pic 1 = R.chathamica 'pitt island'

Pic 2 = R.baueri 'raoul island'

Pic 3 = R.sapida 'great barrier island'

Pic 4 = R.sapida 'banks peninsula'

R.chathamica pitt island2.jpg

R.baueri raoul island2.jpg

R.sapida great barrier2.jpg

R.sapida banks peninsula2.jpg

Wow! Great comparisons...

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Albey

Thanks Si

P.S - When are you going to upload photos of your Queen Palms you planted a couple of years ago?

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sipalms
32 minutes ago, Albey said:

Thanks Si

P.S - When are you going to upload photos of your Queen Palms you planted a couple of years ago?

Will do tomorrow.

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sipalms
18 hours ago, Albey said:

Thanks Si

P.S - When are you going to upload photos of your Queen Palms you planted a couple of years ago?

@Albey you can now view my yard pics under my profile >> About Me section...

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Albey

Awesome i just had a look - All doing O.K - Especially the smaller of the three Queens on your driveway. That one has a nice head of fronds.

Washingtonias look very healthy. Keep up the good work.

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sipalms
41 minutes ago, Albey said:

Awesome i just had a look - All doing O.K - Especially the smaller of the three Queens on your driveway. That one has a nice head of fronds.

Washingtonias look very healthy. Keep up the good work.

Yes that one looks incredible by mid summer, and laughs at the winter, it is growing real quick and flattening up at the base. It's fronds are more green and droopy too. I wish I got more of its siblings when I first bought it, but didn't because I didn't know how well they'd grow here!

Sorry for the thread hijack though...

Edited by sipalms

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