Is there a perlite shortage? Alternatives to perlite?

[chad2468emr]

Hey all,

I have not, for the life of me, been able to find much perlite in the last 2 months or so. Maybe I’ll luck out and find a small 8 qt bag or two at a HD or Lowe’s but overall I can’t find squat. Is there some secret cure for COVID using perlite that I should know about? Are people just buying up plants in need of well-draining soil like crazy because they’re quarantined and bored? Is it some COVID-related distribution issue? I have no idea but I can’t find it anywhere. 

Perlite used to be my go-to for amending soil and making it palm-friendly because we all know miracle grow palm and citrus soil isn’t well-draining enough. Or at least it didn’t used to be? When I was a newby I gave a few of my palms root rot not realizing that and I’ve been scared to rely on it solo since. 
 

What alternatives are there? I’ve read about pumice, vermiculite, and sand. At what ratio should they be used with palm and citrus soil? I’ve given this premium orchid bark with a little perlite in it a shot, and I think I need to repot the palms I added it to because they stay moist longer than I’d care for. 

[kinzyjr]

Get some Cactus mix and some small pea gravel.  You could:

• Mix it up in a wheel barrel or tub and use that for your stuff that needs quick drainage. 
• Load the bottom of the pot with some rocks (pea gravel or other rocks) and fill the rest with cactus mix.

The second method is my preference since it also holds the small pots down if we have a breezy day.

[Silas_Sancona]

20 minutes ago, chad2468emr said:

Hey all,

I have not, for the life of me, been able to find much perlite in the last 2 months or so. Maybe I’ll luck out and find a small 8 qt bag or two at a HD or Lowe’s but overall I can’t find squat. Is there some secret cure for COVID using perlite that I should know about? Are people just buying up plants in need of well-draining soil like crazy because they’re quarantined and bored? Is it some COVID-related distribution issue? I have no idea but I can’t find it anywhere. 

Perlite used to be my go-to for amending soil and making it palm-friendly because we all know miracle grow palm and citrus soil isn’t well-draining enough. Or at least it didn’t used to be? When I was a newby I gave a few of my palms root rot not realizing that and I’ve been scared to rely on it solo since. 
 

What alternatives are there? I’ve read about pumice, vermiculite, and sand. At what ratio should they be used with palm and citrus soil? I’ve given this premium orchid bark with a little perlite in it a shot, and I think I need to repot the palms I added it to because they stay moist longer than I’d care for. 

Pumice, small sized Lava Rock, Turface, and ..whats often referred to/sold as " Chicken Grit " are the best ( better actually ) alternatives to perlite. If you use any, avoid any sand that is fine grained, will make drainage issues worse.   Turface should be the easiest to find there in FL ( usually sold in 50lb bags ). You could also use things like Crushed Shell ( might have to crush it more compared to how it is sold ), Paver Base, and Coral sand for stuff that likes a lot of Lime.

As far as what ratio to use? That will depend on what palms you're growing, and what they require. Some will like soil containing more organics, some will need sharper drainage, ie: higher ratio of Pumice/Turface/ etc additive to increase drainage added to the mix. 

[palmsOrl]

I have stopped using Perlite and am now using coarse Vermiculite in its place.  I just like the fact that it doesn't float to the top as much and it does a really good job at keeping the soil aerated and not compacted if used in a high enough percentage.  I like the fact that the particles have some "give" to them.

When I made the change this Spring I was using the fine Vermiculite you can buy in small or large bags at the big box stores but I became dissatisfied with the fine stuff for the above purposes so now I am using coarse Vermiculite at anywhere from 15-35% and it works great.  Super expensive though the way I am buying it in small bags at local garden centers so next year when I do my next round of repotting I am going to look to buy the coarse stuff in bulk.

-Michael

[Fusca]

I've had good results using roughly a 50/50 mix of Turface MVP (basically the same as Seramis) and potting mix or coco coir depending on the species.  I like it better than perlite because it doesn't "float" to the top of containers.  And @ $12.50 per 50 lb bag it's much cheaper as well!

Edited August 27, 2020 by Fusca

[palmsOrl]

I have also noticed the shortage of Perlite, which is what led me to try the Vermiculite the one time and that led to the switch over.  Vermiculite can be as difficult or even more to find at the big box stores but I can always find the small bags of the good coarse stuff at the local mom and pop places.  Again, the coarse stuff is what I now use.

I also think coarse silica sand is a good soil ingredient but I have trouble finding it for sale locally.  One can always order it on eBay and the like.  Lowe's used to always carry coarse silica sand in small plastic containers in the garden center among the small bags of stone and mosses and such.  I hadn't been able to find it lately until I happened by one container of it at a Lowe's location I don't usually visit.  It is more cost effective to buy it online though.

My research online made me aware that paver's grit and similar products that are limestome-based, are bad for (most) plants and especially the palms, tree ferns and most of the other plants I grow, which are almost all denizens of tropical/subtropical rainforests and thus almost always prefer acid (or at least neutral) soil.

For Cocos, regular bags of play sand, which is fine silica sand works great for me in my location and prevents my palms in pots (which is currently all of them) from rotting.  My Cocos were always developing rot for me in heavier, organic soil mixtures, especially in the cooler months.  Yes, the fine silica sand mixture I use for Cocos compacts like hell but Cocos do not seem to mind it.  Haven't lost a single one since I started using 60-70% play sand.  That said, the two Cocos I repotted in the past month got roughly 45-50% play sand, 20% coarse Vermiculite, 20% potting soil and 10% peat moss. 

Also, not all play sand is created equal.  The stuff I get at Home Depot is always perfect.  I picked up a bag of play sand at Lowe's last month and it was almost as fine as powder, so I dumped it.  Do not use silica sand that is that fine.

[PJP]

Pool Stores have coarse silica sand.  It’s used in sand pool filters.  They usually have in stock. $10 for a 50lb bag.

[Sabal Steve]

I’ve used crushed lava rock (3/8”) for years with potted palms, and had success.  Even palms that like alkaline soils, do well.  I get it from the local rock yard.

Edited August 27, 2020 by The Steve

[chad2468emr]

Thanks, everyone! Sounds like I’ve got some good options. I’ve always heard of these alternatives here and there but been hesitant to venture out from what I knew because it was working for me. I’ll likely give pumice or lava rock a try and go from there. I’d like to try vermiculite, but I’m kind of tired of paying the “gardening supply” price for things when I could be paying less for something that basically is just tiny porous rocks. 
 

Thanks again! 

[palmsOrl]

3 hours ago, chad2468emr said:

Thanks, everyone! Sounds like I’ve got some good options. I’ve always heard of these alternatives here and there but been hesitant to venture out from what I knew because it was working for me. I’ll likely give pumice or lava rock a try and go from there. I’d like to try vermiculite, but I’m kind of tired of paying the “gardening supply” price for things when I could be paying less for something that basically is just tiny porous rocks. 
 

Thanks again! 

I'm there!  Haha.  I think I have spent like $250 on Vermiculite over the past month and a half or so.  Definitely going to be wholesale or look for another option next year, likely one mentioned in this thread.

Thank you for the tip PJP.  I will definitely be getting all of my sand this way going forward.

-Michael

[lzorrito]

Crush Hydroton clay balls to the size you need or buy coarse lava rock and do the same. It works for me, with addiction of vermiculite, of course.

Perlite has also got some shortage periods around here, which is related to demand when certains crops are on going.

Just for curiosity...how much do you pay in the US for a 32 gallon (120 lt) bag of perlite or  vermiculite?

[palmsOrl]

The two gallon bags of Perlite and fine Vermiculite is $4.99 at the big box stores as of late.  The big bags of the fine Vermiculite and Perlite (I think 20 gallon) are running $21-$22.

The small, 2 gallon bags of coarse Vermiculite at the smaller nurseries are $10.99-$12.99 depending on the place.

Oh and get this, for my tree ferns, my latest potting mix includes 35% coarse Vermiculite from those $11-$13 two-gallon bags AND I sift out the finer stuff through the strainer pictured below and lose over half the bag, leaving me less than half a bag of actual coarse Vermiculite that is useable for my soil mix.  The rest of the bag is fines and dust.  So, yeah, I need a more cost-effective source.

[GottmitAlex]

https://www.amazon.com/Acme-Black-Lava-Sand/dp/B00S8H00I4

 

I love it.

[lzorrito]

The two gallon is just the same price, but the big ones here (120lt/ 32 us gallon) cost around 15,92 usd (13,40€) for perlite, and around 20,63 usd (17,40€) for vermiculite, at the big box stores.

15 minutes ago, palmsOrl said:

I sift out the finer stuff through the strainer pictured below and lose over half the bag, leaving me less than half a bag of actual coarse Vermiculite that is useable for my soil mix.  The rest of the bag is fines and dust.  So, yeah, I need a more cost-effective source.

I've got the same problem as you. When buying the bags I always need to go turn them around in order to choose the ones with the less powder. Think I must try the most coarse ones #4 or #5.

Just check my perlite and vermiculite bag bottom (powder) on the pics.

[Moose]

Part of the perlite shortage could be attributed to people making their own seeding mixes to propogate vegetables in their gardens. There is a vegetable seed shortage from great demand. I'm on several "wait lists" - when notified, I see the seed gets snatched up with 24-48 hours.

Just my theory on perlite. It is Covid related. Demand over supply.

[sonoranfans]

Right now most companies are sensitive not to overstock some items.  I have seen shortages of nursery pots and perlite and vermiculite, but not mulch or miracle gro.  Restocking appears to be slower at the big box stores.  I bought a big bag of perlite in march, havent seen a big one since.  Things are economically tight, cash is king, and companies are perhaps lower in stock for a umber of items.  THe supply chain may also have been slowed by the shutdown.  28 million are unemployed and some of them are in the supply chain for garden products.  

[sonoranfans]

A couple properties of perlite that are useful and not part of the properties of most natural rock.  Perlite is compressible, and its also much lighter than water with relatively low surface area/gram.  Being lighter than water and having much less surface area for water absorbtion makes it a higher drainage material, better at lightening soils.  Compressibility helps prevent compacted soil conditions which can channel water.  This compaction of soil can be caused by accumulated tap/irrigation water hardness.  Perlite is also easy on fragile roots with handling.  Vermiculite is not a comparable material, as it holds lots of water, doesnt drain nearly as well due to massive surface area/gram.   Vermiculite also eventually breaks down to a poor drainage sludge like material.  That might not be so bad in sandy soil but it could be a problem in clay where drainage will be reduced as it degrades.   Natural rock may be perfect for you if you understand the dry cycle, I prefer perlite as it has the largest capacity to change soil drainage upon addition and I always use organic material in my potted palms.  I mix the perite into soil before and after wetting it down so it doesnt matter that it floats.  Often I put more perlite in the mix at the bottom of the pot, less up top.  This will reduce the water vs depth gradient for best co-current of top and bottom soil dry cycle.  That perlite dust in some of those packages seems way smaller than the perlite I have bought, it may be of limited use.  

[lzorrito]

22 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

That perlite dust in some of those packages seems way smaller than the perlite I have bought, it may be of limited use.  

I always take some time looking and choosing the ones with the less amount of powder. Bad handling/storage methods used by sellers...they just don't care if it's a bag of potting soil or perlite, just pile it up, and sell! The same for lava rock, which ir sold here by the weight, and you have dig the amount you need...the lowest you dig in the bale, the more powder you get.

But, at least for me, crushed baked clay balls/pebbles also work just fine.

[chad2468emr]

Well, bit of an update:

I had a D. leptocheilos showing up via mail today and knew I’d be needing to pot it ASAP so I ventured out to look for lava rock small enough, perlite, or coarse vermiculite. I wasn’t too thrilled on the idea of silica / play sand because I didn’t want to deal with the weight when I have to move pots overnight in the winter. 

I called around stone yards for 3/8 inch lava rock and everyone only had 3/4 - 1 inch which is way too large. Big box stores the same. Coarse Vermiculite no where to be seen. I was able to find one 8 qt bag of Miracle Gro perlite with a hole in it at HD and that’s what I had to settle for. That combined with the orchid bark mix I’ve been resorting to along with palm soil made up a mix that was porous / well draining enough. 

I’m resorting to Amazon moving forward now that I’m in no tremendous rush. Between looking online for places with in store pickup that have available inventory and also trudging through a multitude of big box stores that just CANT seem to organize their shelves anywhere near similarly to one another regardless of name, I am sick to death of looking, hahaha. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by chad2468emr

[Gonzer]

Does anyone REALLY like floaties?

[Silas_Sancona]

  Bluntly honest advise, Stop going to the Big Box Stores, lol..

Turface ( Turface MVP.. Not the fine stuff ) should be easy to find at any Turf management/ Landscape Irrigation Supply store. If you ever use it, "Chicken Grit" can be found at any Ag. Supply store.. I know there are plenty around FL.  You also should have plenty of Hydroponic Supply stores there to look over ( online, Inventory-wise ) before visiting in person..  Would get any Pumice, Gro-stones ( Think that company went out of business.. Great product tho ) i needed from them, even if i had to travel up to North Tampa from Bradenton.. Many Hydro supply places also stock big bags of perlite, etc..

As far as Lava Rock, agree, could never find anything smaller than 3/4ths to 1" in any of the Rock Yards there, even where i'd go to get certain stuff up in St. Pete. When i needed it, i'd buy a bag/bucket worth and crush what i needed to the appropriate size. There's also a Lava rock like option called " Firelite " Crushes easier than lava, Great for providing drainage in a soil mix, looks great as a top dressing also. Unless supply has changed, most places stock it in bags. 

[chad2468emr]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

  Bluntly honest advise, Stop going to the Big Box Stores, lol..

Hahaha, noted. Trust me, I'm over it. I tend to go for stuff like perlite, etc. when for whatever reason it's not hard to find because their prices are cheap and I buy a lot of the stuff, but I'm giving up at this point. Not worth the hassle if literally none of them have what I'm looking for. 

That being said, any "mom and pop" garden centers I've been to in FL ever have actual soil / amendments. Usually just plants, maybe some containers. I usually look at nurseries, though, so maybe I can find some more garden-centric places and see what they've got. 

I'll have to look more into Turface MVP. Is it light? Porous? I can't really tell looking at pictures but it looks like it might just be a mix between lava rock and pea gravel. I liked the idea of lava rock so much because its so porous and light, and I worry not just about drainage, but I really prefer my soils to be "airy." From what I've been able to find online, it's just calcine clay? Given that it's used for athletic fields, I thought it'd be cheap as dirt (lol pun intended) but it seems the bonsai hobby has made it a commodity for plant people and companies have caught on that they can package it in fancier bags and then charge an arm and a leg for it. I'll have to see if I can find a turf management / landscape irrigation supply store like you mentioned and see if they have it for cheaper. 

 

[Moose]

5 minutes ago, chad2468emr said:

Hahaha, noted. Trust me, I'm over it. I tend to go for stuff like perlite, etc. when for whatever reason it's not hard to find because their prices are cheap and I buy a lot of the stuff, but I'm giving up at this point. Not worth the hassle if literally none of them have what I'm looking for. 

That being said, any "mom and pop" garden centers I've been to in FL ever have actual soil / amendments. Usually just plants, maybe some containers. I usually look at nurseries, though, so maybe I can find some more garden-centric places and see what they've got. 

I'll have to look more into Turface MVP. Is it light? Porous? I can't really tell looking at pictures but it looks like it might just be a mix between lava rock and pea gravel. I liked the idea of lava rock so much because its so porous and light, and I worry not just about drainage, but I really prefer my soils to be "airy." From what I've been able to find online, it's just calcine clay? Given that it's used for athletic fields, I thought it'd be cheap as dirt (lol pun intended) but it seems the bonsai hobby has made it a commodity for plant people and companies have caught on that they can package it in fancier bags and then charge an arm and a leg for it. I'll have to see if I can find a turf management / landscape irrigation supply store like you mentioned and see if they have it for cheaper. 

 

Potholes in the local baseball fields?    

[chad2468emr]

1 minute ago, Moose said:

Potholes in the local baseball fields?    

At this point I don't count that out!!!!! I can't believe how challenging this has been - BUT @Silas_Sancona's recommendation to look into hydroponics may have helped because I found THIS place in Orlando, and though they have a lot of great alternative options, they do have 4 CF of perlite for just $60 which is basically $1.98 a quart and hard to beat, haha. 

I'll take a peek at what else they have though and maybe pay them a visit. 

[Silas_Sancona]

23 minutes ago, chad2468emr said:

 

I'll have to look more into Turface MVP. Is it light? Porous? I can't really tell looking at pictures but it looks like it might just be a mix between lava rock and pea gravel. I liked the idea of lava rock so much because its so porous and light, and I worry not just about drainage, but I really prefer my soils to be "airy." From what I've been able to find online, it's just calcine clay? Given that it's used for athletic fields, I thought it'd be cheap as dirt (lol pun intended) but it seems the bonsai hobby has made it a commodity for plant people and companies have caught on that they can package it in fancier bags and then charge an arm and a leg for it. I'll have to see if I can find a turf management / landscape irrigation supply store like you mentioned and see if they have it for cheaper. 

 

Pretty light weight / porous but will also absorb/retain water in the grains.. and nutrients as well  allowing more time between watering. Lava rock/ Timber/Firelite ( Noticed different landscape supply places there in FL. labeled it by either name. Same rock regardless ), and Pumice will retain some water in the pores but not much nutrients..

Find Black lava can be denser/heavier, less pore space compared to red, depending on the source. That said, after years of having stuff blow over, kind of like my soil being a touch heavier, plus having less issues w/ the inorganic components getting washed out of the mix, leaving much denser and decomposing organics behind..  The main reason i ditched perlite in the first place.  Pumice ( and Gro-stones ) can float a bit, but far less of an issue than the other stuff. Turface rarely floats.

Keep forgetting about it for some reason but Ground Coconut husks/ Coir is an excellent organic soil component also. Far superior to and far fewer issues compared to using Peat. One of the compressed blocks of the stuff makes a lot of material once wet and expanded.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Silas_Sancona
edit

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Coconut husks/ Coir is an excellent organic soil component also. Far superior to and far fewer issues compared to using Peat. One of the compressed blocks of the stuff makes a lot of material once wet and expanded.

This.  I've got an Acoelorraphe wrightii seedling currently growing in a ceramic pot with no drainage holes using a mix of coconut coir and Turface.  It seems to like the extra water along with the excellent draining medium.  I wouldn't think of using a container like that for very many species but it made an interesting experiment.  Sorry for the poor quality photo that was taken shortly after I potted it.

[sonoranfans]

turface is big for grass, seems like most of the literature is on turf grass.  Here is a test comparing "turface MVP" to "coarse silica sand" and "cycad mix" for growth of zamia sp(cycads).  I see nothing remrkable, they all seem to have similar effects on growth above and below the ground.  Grass studies Ive seen show better results for turface than other soil mixes, but with frequent fertigation.  Not sure how that works for palms NOT on fertigation.   An advantage of turface is it holds more water and perhaps that means more nutrients for longer in the soil.  This article suggests turface may need more frequent watering for better growth as a cycad mix.  One of the goals of feeding grass is to keep the moisture and nutrients near the surface and turface will do this.  I'm not sure how this works on deeper plantings.  My garden has 4-6" of mulched organics with sand under with some clay at 3' depth, so Im not sure I need any drainage ammendment.  In pots, I have had explosive growth(my dyctosperma album have gone from bare rooted 4" tall strap leaves to 30" tall in 6 months with palm and cactus mix plus 10-15% extra perlite.  I dont fertigate, I use florikan controlled release palm fertilizer with osmotic nutrient delivery, no noted deficiencies.  A fertilizer like florikan will reduce the need for extra cation exchange.  Turface looks 2-3x more expensive, not sure I can justify even testing it with my results.  

[23279834 - HortScience] Germination and Early Seedling Growth of Rare Zamia spp. in Organic and Inorganic Substrates_ Advancing Ex Situ Conservation Horticulture.pdf

[Merlyn]

20 hours ago, chad2468emr said:

At this point I don't count that out!!!!! I can't believe how challenging this has been - BUT @Silas_Sancona's recommendation to look into hydroponics may have helped because I found THIS place in Orlando, and though they have a lot of great alternative options, they do have 4 CF of perlite for just $60 which is basically $1.98 a quart and hard to beat, haha. 

I'll take a peek at what else they have though and maybe pay them a visit. 

You could try Ewing Irrigation, they carry 50lb bags of Turface MVP for $14.27 each.  It might be special order though, but there is one down in the Lake Nona area. https://store.ewingirrigation.com/55011010-turface-mvp-field-conditioner

[Silas_Sancona]

9 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

You could try Ewing Irrigation, they carry 50lb bags of Turface MVP for $14.27 each.  It might be special order though, but there is one down in the Lake Nona area. https://store.ewingirrigation.com/55011010-turface-mvp-field-conditioner

That's where i get mine, both when there in FL. and here.  Should have it in store. Might call first to be sure though.

[lzorrito]

Heard about Leca Hydro clay granules? Not pebbles neither balls. it looks like Seramis, but not the same.

It consists of broken Leca expanded clay granules to maximize water storage, retention capacity and gradually releases it over time, improves soil aeration, large excess water drainage capacity, and so on and on... It differs dynamically from the performance of traditional clay balls. I have already read a study and characterization about it and it sounds good.

To mix with the substrate. According to instructions, replace up to 2/3 of the soil with Leca Hydro, mixing both.

Might be a good replacement for perlite?

[Merlyn]

I think I figured out what happened to all the Home Depot perlite.  Three local stores were sold out, but the Casselberry one has 70 of the big 2 cuft bags!!!  They had a whole pallet of them down low and 2 more pallets of them on a shelf.  I think they might be a wee bit overstocked! 

I'll have to go over to the local Ewing store and pick up some Turface MVP.  It's a lot, lot cheaper than buying pumice online, because no one carries pumice around here except in big landscape sized rocks.

[PhilippineExpat]

I use rice hull as my perlite. It gives incredible drainage and is organic matter for the soil. I usually mix it in the top soil and it dramatically improves drainage. I also add more on top because it makes an extremely effective mulch. It doesn't retain any water so weed seeds cannot stay wet long enough to germinate and it a!so does a fantastic job keeping moisture in the soil. 

[chad2468emr]

I actually ended up giving Ewing Irrigation a call when I was looking for Lava Rocks and they said they didn’t have any, so that’s a funny coincidence. Haha. 
 

I really wanted to give the lava rock or Turface a try, but I found a 4 cubic feet bag of perlite at Florida Garden Supplies near the airport for just $22! Which is like $0.19 a quart so that was hard to turn down. Haha 

[lzorrito]

12 hours ago, PhilippineExpat said:

I use rice hull as my perlite. It gives incredible drainage and is organic matter for the soil. I usually mix it in the top soil and it dramatically improves drainage. I also add more on top because it makes an extremely effective mulch. It doesn't retain any water so weed seeds cannot stay wet long enough to germinate and it a!so does a fantastic job keeping moisture in the soil. 

Hummm... here's something really out of the box! It turns out that certain cultures use rice husks (fresh, carbonized and burnt) as soil conditioner and it seems to have characteristics similar to expanded polystyrene, phenolic foam, sand, wood by-products such as sawdust and wood fiber. It can also be used as a mulch, very well. Another viable alternative to perlite. How long does it take to decay?

Edited August 29, 2020 by lzorrito

[sonoranfans]

Perlite doesnt decay, so drainage improvements are not lost.  The rice hulls like bark mulch will bet digested to nothing.  I like the idea of turface in ground, not for the replacement of perlite(I have sandy soils), but to reduce my mulching frequency by having a non degradable moisture and cation exchange medium.  That mulch digests so fast in my sandy soil, the turface might be a way of reducing the frequency of the mulch cycle and maintaining moisture in the upper soil.

[lzorrito]

10 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

The rice hulls like bark mulch will bet digested to nothing. 

That's what I want to know...

32 minutes ago, lzorrito said:

How long does it take to decay?

I'm curious because it is used in many places and on so many potted cultures.

Would it work as germination medium also?

[sonoranfans]

Nothing going to rot in the short term.  Here 1 warm season matters(~8 months in florida) a full grow season leads to lots of microbe digested material.  so its not an issue for anything but long term containers and in the ground planting.  Portugal doesnt have the level of heat humidity of florida so it will take even longer for lots of digestion there.

[lzorrito]

Agree, it is not a viable alternative for you in Florida do to your levels of heat humidity and microbial activity. It will sure decay shortly. But here in Portugal dry heat...it will probably work. Let me learn a litle more about it.

I found this:

"The rice husk has a hard surface that takes approximately 5 years to decompose."

"The carbonized rice husk is a sterile substrate, is used as a corrective to the acidity of the soil, soil conditioner and source of nutrients, such as phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium and silicon. In our gardens, vegetable gardens and organic crops, we can use either as a vegetable cover or as a constituent of substrates and organic compounds."

Also found it cost about 5$ per kg! Too expensive...no way!

It is used to brew beer.

[Merlyn]

On 8/26/2020 at 9:48 PM, palmsOrl said:

My research online made me aware that paver's grit and similar products that are limestome-based, are bad for (most) plants and especially the palms, tree ferns and most of the other plants I grow, which are almost all denizens of tropical/subtropical rainforests and thus almost always prefer acid (or at least neutral) soil.

I started using the Paver Base for my cacti and agaves, because many of them are desert plants and grow in higher PH soil.  My seedlings of cycads and palms have done better with this in the mix compared to a regular coarse sand.  I am not sure if this is because of the larger diameter of the paver's grit, providing better drainage than regular sand, or if it has anything to do with the ph of the limestone grit.  My theory...er...also known as a SWAG...is that one of the problems mentioned with potting palms is that the soil can get too acidic over time.  So my SWAG was that 30% limestone grit might balance the ph.  I should probably soil test some of my older pots with coarse sand and compare it to my agave pots, to see if the limestone is leeching out and raising the ph too far.

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I started using the Paver Base for my cacti and agaves, because many of them are desert plants and grow in higher PH soil.  My seedlings of cycads and palms have done better with this in the mix compared to a regular coarse sand.  I am not sure if this is because of the larger diameter of the paver's grit, providing better drainage than regular sand, or if it has anything to do with the ph of the limestone grit.  My theory...er...also known as a SWAG...is that one of the problems mentioned with potting palms is that the soil can get too acidic over time.  So my SWAG was that 30% limestone grit might balance the ph.  I should probably soil test some of my older pots with coarse sand and compare it to my agave pots, to see if the limestone is leeching out and raising the ph too far.

Like w/ Pumice, larger particle size likely helps w/ drainage overall but i have little doubt adding something like Paver base, Egg Shells or any other natural source of elements/minerals leached from Limestone, greatly benefits anything -Palms included- that originates from areas where they would grow on limestone derived soil, just as using granite chips/grit and/or Lava Rock ( to some extent ) benefits anything that would otherwise grow in those -slightly/ much more acidic- soils.