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Foxy lady seeding


redant

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After many years and trees that are ungodly tall, my foxy lady, 1 of 2 dropped 2 very ripe very real looking seeds. With only 2 to work with I of course will just hope to see if they germinate. I have plenty of foxtails and Veitchia arecina in the yard so maybe it did a cross back with one of them to become fertile? Anyone have success with seeds from a foxy lady?

Jupiter FL

in the Zone formally known as 10A

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I have been growing F2 Foxy Ladies for the last 3 years.  It took about 3 - 4 years of seeding until some viable seed dropped.  The fastest way I check for viable seed is to roll the seed on concrete with my foot, giving it some moderate pressure.  If they squish or liquid comes out, they are not good.  They s/b just a hard and firm as a foxtail or vetchia to be viable.  If they pass the squish test I clean them and do a float test.  Sometime even though they are hard, they float.  Not a good sign.  The vast majority of the good looking seed are NOT viable.   Here are a few pics of some of the F2's that I am growing out to sell.   I have sold a number of them throughout the years.   I know of 1 other grower in Cape Coral that gets viable seed. 

IMG_20200811_141313.thumb.jpg.04e8f2fb49433edc90bb328e5f309792.jpg

IMG_20200811_141329.thumb.jpg.5b2db31943551a15b1d102c81068d63a.jpg

IMG_20200811_141337.thumb.jpg.5e79c6fd0f739a41fafc63b793915b9a.jpg

 

Look at this one.  I have 2 that look just like a foxtail.  I am almost positive they were F2's, but when I look at these I have to question it.  I do not grow foxtails, so there could not be a mix up there.  I meticulously labeled and tracked them. 

IMG_20200811_141211.thumb.jpg.c2307576b200b468bb673cb252374368.jpg

 

Here is one I put in the ground about a year ago.

IMG_20200811_141437.thumb.jpg.768aa33949d7bb1b3138b2222585457b.jpg

IMG_20200811_142217.thumb.jpg.47f11a7604744adaeed3d6673ffee7ea.jpg

IMG_20200811_141457.thumb.jpg.a2d55754bf4875b1dfd8debea676527d.jpg

 

I picked up a few seed that was on the ground while taking pics.  There were actually 5.  4, failed the squish test and the 5th failed the float test.  BTW, I have big hands.

IMG_20200811_141647.thumb.jpg.90eda12711c7b914be65eccffafc0c23.jpg

Here is the 5th seed that failed float test.  Note the smooth texture of the seed fiber compared to a course fiber foxtail.  Kind of like a cross between foxtail fiber and the very smooth Vechis fiber.  It is also more elongated. That is how you can tell the difference between foxtail and Foxy Lady hybrid.

IMG_20200811_142020.thumb.jpg.b8f96069a5d8968ebc2092a69d67e81e.jpg

 

I have 6 mature foxy ladies and all but 2 are variegated.   Only the variegated FL produced viable seed so far, but none of the seedlings are variegated.

IMG_20200811_141529.thumb.jpg.65dc783bb405ae17f6e04ba7153f043e.jpg

IMG_20200811_141540.thumb.jpg.3041db316fd59cf28e360da3996bf877.jpg

IMG_20200811_141725.thumb.jpg.e67a2456146d8fab94e83fb64ce6489a.jpg

End of story.

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41 minutes ago, Mike Evans said:

I have 2 that look just like a foxtail.  I am almost positive they were F2's, but when I look at these I have to question it. 

From what I understand about F2 hybrids, this result is not surprising.  According to Wikipedia (link below - see Disadvantages section) some F2s are high in the genes found in the grandparents, ie Wodyetia or Veitchia and lack hybrid vigor.   I have a Butia x Jubaea F2 that looks exactly like a Butia and growth speed is very similar to Butia.  For what that's worth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1_hybrid#:~:text=is prohibitively expensive.-,F2 hybrid,other interventions are not required.

This diagram below from http://biology.arizona.edu shows distribution of possible outcomes crossing one F1 hybrid with another identical F1 hybrid (or self pollinization of F1).  I would imagine that even if a Foxy Lady were back-crossed with a Veitchia there would be a small percentage chance of getting an F2 with mostly Wodyetia traits if the Wodyetia traits were dominant.

Jon

image.png.d2890c77e3940b115c7fdc225bc0edc7.png

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Jon Sunder

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Sorry for the hijack... But I have had a foxy lady from came off of one of my foxtails.... I didn't notice it until after the seedling got bigger... So I keep hoping for more crosses... Will the seed look like the one you show above, or is that just the f2?.... I don't have room to plant out all my foxtail seeds, but if a cross seed would look different than a straight foxtail, it sure would be worth my effort... Thanks

Butch

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7 minutes ago, Neil C said:

Seed from a foxtail palm will only look like foxtail seeds even if something else is going in the seed.

Regards Neil

Yep, I was told it's the mother plant genes that determine the fruit/seed so you can't tell an F1 hybrid without growing it!

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1 hour ago, richnorm said:

Yep, I was told it's the mother plant genes that determine the fruit/seed so you can't tell an F1 hybrid without growing it!

Well, crap!!!:indifferent:..

Butch

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11 hours ago, Neil C said:

Seed from a foxtail palm will only look like foxtail seeds even if something else is going in the seed.

Regards Neil

I believe that is a true statement from what I have seen.

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Great information Thanks all, I only had 2, looked just like Mikes, Just going to keep them in soil and see what I got. 

Jupiter FL

in the Zone formally known as 10A

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Jeff M was offering F2's at FB the last few years.

I assumed they had crossed back with another Vietchia.

Mine is not showing many  Wodyetia traits, rather looks like a small, more robust Veitchia.

My "F2" is a steady grower so I am assuming there is some hybrid vigor.

Pure Vietchia for me at that size are touchy.

Many growers got them from FB.

Curious as to others observations and opinions on them.

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What do you think Mike?

I don't know the different rates of growth for them in Florida.

Are they the same as an F1 growth rate?

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3 hours ago, TomJ said:

What do you think Mike?

I don't know the different rates of growth for them in Florida.

Are they the same as an F1 growth rate?

Typically I find the F1 does have the hybrid vigor, except when they are very variegated.  The over variegated ones seem to languish and slowly die or just grow very slow, probably due to lack of chlorophyll.   The F2 I am growing so far is hard to tell if they will have the vigor yet, but so far, so good.  Maybe a few other palmtalkers that I sold F2 to can pipe in.  

Something else to think about.  Look how elongated this viable F2 seed is, that I picked up yesterday.  I wonder if the very elongated seed has more Veitchia traits and the more rounded F2 seed has the foxtail traits?  Maybe something I might try to track as time goes on.

IMG_20200813_141426.thumb.jpg.7c4ae770ea367c0bb2002dc5ad165144.jpg

 

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4 hours ago, redant said:

Great information Thanks all, I only had 2, looked just like Mikes, Just going to keep them in soil and see what I got. 

Give them the squash test or float test and see if they are good.

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  • 6 months later...

Now you will have to wait to see how it turns out.  The seed looks pretty elongated, so I would think it would have a lot of Vetchia characteristics.

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On 2/17/2021 at 11:41 AM, redant said:

I had about 7 seeds so I just planted them all, one popped.

IMG_7850.jpg

Wow that looks like a lot of growth for 6 months since planting. Mine are Veitchia Joannis that we’re planted about the same time.

image.jpg

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17 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

Wow that looks like a lot of growth for 6 months since planting. Mine are Veitchia Joannis that we’re planted about the same time.

image.jpg

hybrids seem to have a higher rate of growth for some reason.

Jupiter FL

in the Zone formally known as 10A

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  • 1 year later...
On 8/13/2020 at 7:55 AM, TomJ said:

Jeff M was offering F2's at FB the last few years.

I assumed they had crossed back with another Vietchia.

Mine is not showing many  Wodyetia traits, rather looks like a small, more robust Veitchia.

My "F2" is a steady grower so I am assuming there is some hybrid vigor.

Pure Vietchia for me at that size are touchy.

Many growers got them from FB.

Curious as to others observations and opinions on them.

I have 2 FB F2 hybrids. Been in pots in the greenhouse for a couple years, very hard to tell. Wanting to put them out but not if they’re not a true hybrid. Does anyone have updates on their F2s? I’ll try and post pics later.

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  • 1 year later...

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