Will Canary island date palm in Grow in zone 8B or on South Vancouver island

[Bill Nanaimo]

I got a couple of canary island date palms starting to sprout has anyone had any luck growing them on Vancouver island 

[Fusca]

17 minutes ago, Bill Nanaimo said:

I got a couple of canary island date palms starting to sprout has anyone had any luck growing them on Vancouver island 

Hi Bill,

I can't speak for Vancouver but I had success growing them in 8b Austin, Texas.  Your zone might not warm up quickly enough after a bad freeze though.  Hopefully someone local will chime in with a better response for you.

Jon

[JLM]

I have never had any experience with Canaries, but there are a few thriving around my area which is 8b. As said above, maybe a local can chime in for a much better response. 8b in Florida is much different from 8b on the West Coast

[kinzyjr]

Banana Joe on Salt Spring Island would probably have an idea of whether it will work in the ground or not.  Per the latest video, he says you can usually get about 10 years out of them until you get a bad winter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaqeqw45r_s

He has a few CIDP videos on his YouTube channel, but they are pot-grown.  If you go the About tab, you can get his email and ask him via email.

[Chester B]

The short answer is no.  You won't see any CIDP's in the Pacific Northwest until you hit Gold Beach along the Southern Oregon coast.  It's a 9B zone and is regarded as having the most northerly CIDP's in North America.  I have driven the entire coast and that's where the big ones start.  Interesting article below.

https://www.desertnorthwest.com/articles/oregon_coast_adventure.html

Here's a pic of one of the Gold Beach palms from last October.

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Chester B

[Advective]

Would Jubaea Chilensis also be a no-go for Vancouver Island or the Southern Oregon coast? They are cold-hardier than CIDP but I don't know how they'd handle the high rainfall and cool summers. Butia is out as they need more summer heat

[Chester B]

Both Butia and Jubaea do great in the Pacific Northwest in 8B.  Jubaea is the one palm we can grow that many people particularly in east have Palm envy for.  

[Chester B]

I forgot to mention there is a CIDP 40 minutes from me that is huge.  It's located at a nursery in Silverton, Oregon but it is wrapped and protected every winter.  Here is a pic from a few years back I would guess as it's bigger than this now.  They do also have some very large long term Sabal Palmetto on site that are not protected.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Chester B

[UK_Palms]

Surely a CIDP of that size would make it through winter unprotected in that part of Oregon? What kind of lows are you looking at in an average winter? And in a 'bad' winter?

The CIDP's barely take damage from -5C over here, although we don't often get that cold. Certainly not in London anyway. 

[PlantDad]

5 hours ago, Chester B said:

I forgot to mention there is a CIDP 40 minutes from me that is huge.  It's located at a nursery in Silverton, Oregon but it is wrapped and protected every winter.  Here is a pic from a few years back I would guess as it's bigger than this now.  They do also have some very large long term Sabal Palmetto on site that are not protected.

 

[PlantDad]

Just now, PlantDad said:

 

Just now, PlantDad said:

 

I just went there Friday 

[PlantDad]

1 minute ago, PlantDad said:

 

Its huge. My shoe is a size 14

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

On 8/9/2020 at 1:31 PM, Advective said:

Would Jubaea Chilensis also be a no-go for Vancouver Island or the Southern Oregon coast? They are cold-hardier than CIDP but I don't know how they'd handle the high rainfall and cool summers. Butia is out as they need more summer heat

Correct, Jubaea are quite a bit more leaf hardy than cidp. Around 5-8 degrees.  True dates are a degree or two more leaf hardy than cidp. I dont have a large theorphrastii that has endured low temps yet. 

With that said in wet climates (45"+ rainfall) cidp seems more bud hardy as it doesnt succumb to fungus as easily as dactylifera. 

Also only mature butia eriospatha is as leaf hardy as jubaea.  The other butia burn several degrees before them. 

[Chester B]

3 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Correct, Jubaea are quite a bit more leaf hardy than cidp. Around 5-8 degrees.  True dates are a degree or two more leaf hardy than cidp. I dont have a large theorphrastii that has endured low temps yet. 

With that said in wet climates (45"+ rainfall) cidp seems more bud hardy as it doesnt succumb to fungus as easily as dactylifera. 

Also only mature butia eriospatha is as leaf hardy as jubaea.  The other butia burn several degrees before them. 

Jubaea do well in our climate, they aren't common but they're around in collector's gardens.  Price is a real inhibitory factor for them as they are so expensive.  I think they like our cool nights and dry summers.

Interesting to know eriospatha are tougher than odorata, I hadn't heard that before.  I have both and can say odorata have no issues around here.  They can take the wet and we never get cold enough to damage the fronds.  

FYI - I bought two mule palms from you probably 2 years ago.  Left them in pots but planted the first one out this year and am letting the other one grow on.  I can say they do grow relatively quick compared to other pinnate species.  At that time I also got S uresana and L nitida from you too - both got planted out this year.  The livistona is a fast grower.  I'll be be posting updates on them, and I expect they'll be fine the first couple of years as I will cover them if we get any really nasty winter weather.  Once they get some size they'll be on their own.  

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Nitida are fast.  I'm anxious to see if they will prove hardier than chilensis. Chilensis is incredibly bud hardy here but they leaf burn easily. 

[Palmfarmer]

Watching Bananajoes channel on youtube they dont seem longterm they might last 5 year then a winter kills them. He Lives on Salt Spring Island which i assume is pretty much the identical climate to yours.. However try. find a place under a three to protect it from all that winter rain in  place with good microclimate and protect it untill it is super big and can handle really cold temps. Will probably take 10+ years

[Chester B]

15 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Nitida are fast.  I'm anxious to see if they will prove hardier than chilensis. Chilensis is incredibly bud hardy here but they leaf burn easily. 

@Palm crazyhad a nitida for 3 years before it died.  He's in half a zone colder than me, with higher humidity and quite a bit more rain.  I planted with some protection from the house so we'll see how it does.  Most winters we don't go below 25F and freezes typically last a few hours.  The issue here as with many other palms is the constant damp with cool/cold temperatures that can last for months. Some agaves do survive here without protection so there is hope.

[Collectorpalms]

What about Bringing in adult specimens of Butia, Sabal, and Washingtonia Filifera. Raised Sandy loam, full sun zone 8b Washington along the coast. Looking at a plot of farmland there. 
I understand they don’t have heat so they would grow slow, but would they just die from winters average cool temperatures?

Edited August 15, 2020 by Collectorpalms

[Chester B]

14 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

What about Bringing in adult specimens of Butia, Sabal, and Washingtonia Filifera. Raised Sandy loam, full sun zone 8b Washington along the coast. Looking at a plot of farmland there. 
I understand they don’t have heat so they would grow slow, but would they just die from winters average cool temperatures?

Butia do grow in the Pacific Northwest just fine so starting with a smaller one is great. 

 

The Sabals will take forever so a bringing in a big one will help.  I visited this one yesterday. Butia beside it as well.

 

 

The Filifera will die from the winter moisture - just not going to happen.  The only Washingtonia I've seen in Oregon are robusta and in the southern portion of the state.

[UK_Palms]

5 hours ago, Chester B said:

The Filifera will die from the winter moisture - just not going to happen.  The only Washingtonia I've seen in Oregon are robusta and in the southern portion of the state.

It's interesting that you say that. Obviously it is well known that wet-cold winters are an issue for Filifera, but yet there are some big Filifera's around the London area these days at 51N. The southeast of England certainly isn't dry, or warm during winter. It is pretty wet and cool, or cold even. December, with 4 inches, is by far the wettest month on average in the southeast and the February just gone saw around 5 inches of rain. Yet the Filifera's look as good as ever here. The ones just across the English channel / North Sea in the Netherlands look good as well.

I'm beginning to think the wet-cold issue is being overstated for Filifera's. I think it's only really an issue if you have a few deep freezes, say 15-20F, combined with lots of rainfall and humidity. But a wet winter with a few 25F lows and the odd 20F low shouldn't really be a problem. Otherwise the 20-30ft Filifera's wouldn't exist outside of central London. Yet they do, which tells me the wet-cold issue can't be as pronounced under certain conditions. 

Is Oregon much colder and wetter than London during winter? Genuine question. I don't live there so I can't say...

[Collectorpalms]

Seattle’s climate in winter is very similar to the coastal Netherlands. The Lowest Average daily winter temperatures of 40F, which is also London. There are a few more rain days on average. Few extreme temperatures, but can go a couple days with temperatures remaining Below freezing. This probably would kill a lot of juvenile palms, but large adult specimens wouldn’t be killed outright. Despite being further south, Portland Oregon is going to be a couple degrees colder (37F) and has a few more rain days than Seattle (2-4).

Edited August 16, 2020 by Collectorpalms

[Marco67]

To have an indication of the lowest temperature Vancouver experiences every winter I came upon this website https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/Canada/BC/Vancouver/extreme-annual-vancouver-low-temperature.php I don't know of course how accurate these data are but it gave me a rough idea about the winter lows.  For a Canarienis(or Washingtonia for that matter) to survive unprotected long time in a northern cool/wet climate I think -5/-6 C (21F/23F) is about the lowest it should get during a winter. If I look at the data for Vancouver most winters are below these values. You need at least a 9a (or better 9b) in a cool/wet climate to have any succes. 8b winters are in my opinion not mild enough. There are always these stories in which they survived lower temperatures but in most cases that happens in places much farther south. You could try a Jubaea Chilensis, some people in the Netherlands have planted them as well. They might need protection during the coldest winters though. Butia seems to be to vulnerable to rot what I have read in climates we have.   

 

 

 

[Chester B]

2 hours ago, Marco67 said:

To have an indication of the lowest temperature Vancouver experiences every winter I came upon this website https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/Canada/BC/Vancouver/extreme-annual-vancouver-low-temperature.php I don't know of course how accurate these data are but it gave me a rough idea about the winter lows.  For a Canarienis(or Washingtonia for that matter) to survive unprotected long time in a northern cool/wet climate I think -5/-6 C (21F/23F) is about the lowest it should get during a winter. If I look at the data for Vancouver most winters are below these values. You need at least a 9a (or better 9b) in a cool/wet climate to have any succes. 8b winters are in my opinion not mild enough. There are always these stories in which they survived lower temperatures but in most cases that happens in places much farther south. You could try a Jubaea Chilensis, some people in the Netherlands have planted them as well. They might need protection during the coldest winters though. Butia seems to be to vulnerable to rot what I have read in climates we have.   

 

 

 

This is correct. The Long term Washingtonias you see in Oregon are in wet zone 9b or on the dry side of the state I would expect to see some in 9a maybe 8b in a place like Medford, Oregon. I never saw Washingtonia in Medford but I was only passing through. 
 

Look up BananaJSSI on YouTube  Hes had dozens of Washingtonia and CIDP in Zone 9a on Salt Spring Island, BC.  Not one has been long term, he’s completely given up on trying again. His Washingtonia are in pots now. 
 

So many of these palms are sold by big box stores if they were viable in our climate you’d see them around  There is a reason our most common palm tree is Trachycarpus fortunei  I would say I see hundreds of Trachycarpus before I ever see another type of palm which 99% of the time is a Chamaerops  

If you want a hardy feather palm you’re stuck with Butia and Jubaea as well as hybrids of the two. I am trying out some mule palms but the one palm nursery who has lots of big ones tells me they don’t think they will survive here but I think they have a chance if sited properly and cared for by a knowledgeable person  

 

 

 

 

[Love them palms]

On 8/5/2020 at 10:08 PM, Chester B said:

The short answer is no.  You won't see any CIDP's in the Pacific Northwest until you hit Gold Beach along the Southern Oregon coast.  It's a 9B zone and is regarded as having the most northerly CIDP's in North America.  I have driven the entire coast and that's where the big ones start.  Interesting article below.

https://www.desertnorthwest.com/articles/oregon_coast_adventure.html

Here's a pic of one of the Gold Beach palms from last October.

 

I live here in Mukilteo wa z8b.trying to do the same thing as one of Banana Joe Clemente you tube videos.south side of the house with a board pushing it away from the house 

[Chester B]

Good luck to you - they get huge!

[Pete in Vancouver]

There is a canary island date palm in a front yard In tofino Vancouver island. Google canary island date palms tofino bc and you will see a YouTube video of it

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 8/9/2020 at 2:31 PM, Advective said:

Would Jubaea Chilensis also be a no-go for Vancouver Island or the Southern Oregon coast? They are cold-hardier than CIDP but I don't know how they'd handle the high rainfall and cool summers. Butia is out as they need more summer heat

Nah,  Jubaea loves PNW's climate.

[Fallen Munk]

On 8/9/2020 at 5:32 PM, UK_Palms said:

Surely a CIDP of that size would make it through winter unprotected in that part of Oregon?

I've had a small CIDP outside unprotected all winter so far.  This one is not even one year old from seed.

[Love them palms]

2 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Nah,  Jubaea loves PNW's climate.

Here is one of my Jubaea here in the PNW. Loves it here in this area, many of my trees have Jubaea cross in them due to the fact of better survival in my climate 

[Pete in Vancouver]

Canary island date palm will do well in tofino  on Vancouver island - tofino  is a zone 9

checkout banana joes YouTube videos about canary island date palm in tofino

 

[ryjohn]

Having lived in PNW and now in North Louisiana, I will make some observations.

1.) What can be achieved with palms in zone 8a Louisiana in 5 years would take 20 or more years in the PNW, for all but Trachycarpus.

2.) Butia will grow in the PNW, but will often be killed by events in the 20-22F range because of the long, wet winters.  It’s more likely that Butia will survive 8F here in Louisiana than 20F in the PNW even if the freeze durations are perfectly  equal.  20-22F cold events happen at least every 5 years in most areas of the PNW.

3.) The advantages of growing palms in the Pacific Northwest don’t extend beyond Trachycarpus for anywhere outside the Oregon Coast.  I’ve grown 3 species of Phoenix here in Louisiana unprotected from small sizes, each to at least 6’ of clear trunk (one 20’) all unprotected for 14 years and through one single digit event until the extended freeze in February 2021 killed two out of three and the main trunk on the third.  Jubaea grew well for me in Oregon but grows better in north Louisiana.

4.) What I do miss about the PNW is the ability to grow the even more exotic tree ferns, which are also easier to defoliate and protect than palms. And Gunnera, albutalon, the 12’ tall cultivars of red hot poker, and NZ flax.  Cordeline australis not so much…