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sonobeau

How Long Can Washingtonia Seeds Last?

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sonobeau

Is there some kind of trick to get older seeds to sprout? According to some of yous they seem to sprout as readily and as easily as vegetable seeds, but I've had a batch going for a while now using 2 different methods, yet nothing is sprouting. Could I be doing something wrong or are the seeds just not any good? I was hopeful that I could get something out of them, but so far, out of 800 seeds, not a single one has plumped, softened or shown any signs of germinating whatsoever. Any advice?

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kinzyjr

@sonobeau

Welcome to PalmTalk!

They may be a bad batch.  As plentiful and cheep as they are, it may be less effort to just grab another batch.  Most of the time, my batches of Washingtonia sprout in 1-2 weeks.

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Silas_Sancona

Could be a bad seed batch of course but Curious when you harvested/ collected them..  Neighborhood Grackles and Starlings shower seed from neighborhood specimens in my a lot of potted plants each year & still find some sprouting after 2 years.  They'll often lay in the soil and do nothing until i start watering heavily this time of year, then come up thick as Grass seed.  Are you here in  the Valley? ( Phoenix area )

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sonobeau
1 minute ago, kinzyjr said:

@sonobeau

Welcome to PalmTalk!

They may be a bad batch.  As plentiful and cheep as they are, it may be less effort to just grab another batch.  Most of the time, my batches of Washingtonia sprout in 1-2 weeks.

That's reasonable advice, but I was really hoping to get at least a few plants out of these as they were part of a bulk order that wasn't cheap for me and these seeds aren't as easy to find which is why I spent more money on them. They are purported to be seeds of the cold hardy, yet moisture tolerant Washingtonia Filibusta hybrid. Bought a 2LB bag along with several hundred other seeds from various species and so far those aren't growing either. I'm certainly willing to try again if anyone has a good source for washingtonia filibusta, but so far pick'ns have been slim. Of course, I could always perform my own cross, but that would take decades. As far as your germination timeline is concerned, that's what I've heard before from others, which is why I was dismayed, after a month of no activity whatsoever and decided to post.

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sonobeau
5 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Could be a bad seed batch of course but Curious when you harvested/ collected them..  Neighborhood Grackles and Starlings shower seed from neighborhood specimens in my a lot of potted plants each year & still find some sprouting after 2 years.  They'll often lay in the soil and do nothing until i start watering heavily this time of year, then come up thick as Grass seed.  Are you here in  the Valley? ( Phoenix area )

No, We've had some personal problems in the family and I've been forced to temporarily relocate to the cold and rugged mountains of Colorado to settle some matters. No palms here, that's why I'm messing around with seeds. I didn't collect any of them myself, I ordered online. My mother really hates the cold, but can't stand the heat of Arizona, so when things are wrapped up here(hopefully before the next brutal winter.), we'll be moving down south, but sadly may never return to AZ.

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Silas_Sancona
6 minutes ago, sonobeau said:

No, We've had some personal problems in the family and I've been forced to temporarily relocate to the cold and rugged mountains of Colorado to settle some matters. No palms here, that's why I'm messing around with seeds. I didn't collect any of them myself, I ordered online. My mother really hates the cold, but can't stand the heat of Arizona, so when things are wrapped up here(hopefully before the next brutal winter.), we'll be moving down south, but sadly may never return to AZ.

Ahh, gotcha.. If it is always cool where you're at there in CO. that could factor in on why they're slow to germinate also.. While i get a few popping up all year here ( in Chandler )  Highest % 'age of seed sprouts ( outdoors ) from mid-spring- October-ish when it gets hot.. If you're growing them indoors, and aren't already on one,  get them on a heat mat.  That should help speed thing up.

Have the same love /hate thoughts regarding the heat here and planning on relocating back to CA soon myself. That said, aside from this time of year, AZ is definitely much better than dealing w/ snow/ice, and several months of cold weather each year though, lol.

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sonobeau
4 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Ahh, gotcha.. If it is always cool where you're at there in CO. that could factor in on why they're slow to germinate also.. While i get a few popping up all year here ( in Chandler )  Highest % 'age of seed sprouts ( outdoors ) from mid-spring- October-ish when it gets hot.. If you're growing them indoors, and aren't already on one,  get them on a heat mat.  That should help speed thing up.

Have the same love /hate thoughts regarding the heat here and planning on relocating back to CA soon myself. That said, aside from this time of year, AZ is definitely much better than dealing w/ snow/ice, and several months of cold weather each year though, lol.

In many parts of lower elevation Colorado(including southeast Colorado, which is where we are), temperatures in the Summer get really hot. It actually started getting hot here in May.(Not as hot as AZ), but as high as low triple digits in the valleys. For the past two months here daytime highs have been between 85-99 degrees almost everyday cooling down to 50-63 at night. I did  2 1/2 different setups to account for this.

A) Black 1/2 gallon nursery pots with Coco Coir and perlite adequately moistened and covered with plastic bags to keep in the moisture and retain some of the heat overnight. Some pots are in the front(southeast) to get pre-mid day sun with a plastic baggie method added to the top of one pot for control. The same setup is in the back to get the hot afternoon sun for maximum heating effect. No germination in plastic bag or pots.

B ) A plastic baggie inside the hot house in moistened coir(Houses in Colorado are built to retain heat due to the cold winter climate.) We have no AirCon so temps inside the house closely mirror outdoor temps in the day and inside temperatures don't dip below 80 in most rooms of the house at any time during the summer unless it's extremely windy and cool outside. Bag is placed on a mantle inside a heat pocket behind the TV and always feels like a warm sponge. No germination here either. This bag started outside, moved behind TV on 3rd July. All seeds were started in June with several days of pre-soaking that involved water and hydrogen peroxide. For those who follow James Palms, I followed his advice very closely. accept he didn't use any hydrogen peroxide and I used a TV in place of a router. His germinated after 8 days, mine still none. 

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Silas_Sancona
25 minutes ago, sonobeau said:

In many parts of lower elevation Colorado(including southeast Colorado, which is where we are), temperatures in the Summer get really hot. It actually started getting hot here in May.(Not as hot as AZ), but as high as low triple digits in the valleys. For the past two months here daytime highs have been between 85-99 degrees almost everyday cooling down to 50-63 at night. I did  2 1/2 different setups to account for this.

A) Black 1/2 gallon nursery pots with Coco Coir and perlite adequately moistened and covered with plastic bags to keep in the moisture and retain some of the heat overnight. Some pots are in the front(southeast) to get pre-mid day sun with a plastic baggie method added to the top of one pot for control. The same setup is in the back to get the hot afternoon sun for maximum heating effect. No germination in plastic bag or pots.

B ) A plastic baggie inside the hot house in moistened coir(Houses in Colorado are built to retain heat due to the cold winter climate.) We have no AirCon so temps inside the house closely mirror outdoor temps in the day and inside temperatures don't dip below 80 in most rooms of the house at any time during the summer unless it's extremely windy and cool outside. Bag is placed on a mantle inside a heat pocket behind the TV and always feels like a warm sponge. No germination here either. This bag started outside, moved behind TV on 3rd July. All seeds were started in June with several days of pre-soaking that involved water and hydrogen peroxide. For those who follow James Palms, I followed his advice very closely. accept he didn't use any hydrogen peroxide and I used a TV in place of a router. His germinated after 8 days, mine still none. 

Sounds like you have the set up take care of..  Might just need a little more time..  Assuming you check on them every so often?  8 days sounds a little fast, imo.. Seed that falls in pots here can take a few weeks to germinate, or longer, depending on the time of year.. Have had them come up thick, like winter grass,  after a couple good summer storms, but no water the rest of the year in the gravel out back.  Regardless, if the seed is bad, you'll have no problems getting your hands on fresher seed here. Every un-trimmed Washingtonia in my neighborhood is loaded with developing seed atm..

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TexasColdHardyPalms

I vacuum pack my seeds but seed that is 4 years old still start to germinate in a week for me. 

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Advective

It takes me 4-5 weeks to get Filifera seed to sprout, fresh or not, as I'm not an expert. That's using a basic methodology of a 1-2 day water soak, fungicide application, then a moist paper towel or perlite in a snack bag over a heating pad at 90ºF.

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howfam
On 7/18/2020 at 9:35 AM, sonobeau said:

That's reasonable advice, but I was really hoping to get at least a few plants out of these as they were part of a bulk order that wasn't cheap for me and these seeds aren't as easy to find which is why I spent more money on them. They are purported to be seeds of the cold hardy, yet moisture tolerant Washingtonia Filibusta hybrid. Bought a 2LB bag along with several hundred other seeds from various species and so far those aren't growing either. I'm certainly willing to try again if anyone has a good source for washingtonia filibusta, but so far pick'ns have been slim. Of course, I could always perform my own cross, but that would take decades. As far as your germination timeline is concerned, that's what I've heard before from others, which is why I was dismayed, after a month of no activity whatsoever and decided to post.

I ordered 500 W. filifera seeds a month ago (seems like a thousand), from Anderson's Seeds in California. They sprouted in 2 weeks in the hot outdoor Florida heat here in Jacksonville , Florida. In fact they sprouted 2 weeks ago today, and now I'm going outside to step them up to their own individual pots. The owner said they will have fresh filibusta seeds later this year, toward the end of the year.  You might check their website for details. / howfam

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sonobeau
On 7/19/2020 at 11:28 AM, howfam said:

I ordered 500 W. filifera seeds a month ago (seems like a thousand), from Anderson's Seeds in California. They sprouted in 2 weeks in the hot outdoor Florida heat here in Jacksonville , Florida. In fact they sprouted 2 weeks ago today, and now I'm going outside to step them up to their own individual pots. The owner said they will have fresh filibusta seeds later this year, toward the end of the year.  You might check their website for details. / howfam

Oh, the irony! This seed company that you speak of just happens to be the very  business I ordered the aforementioned seeds from. I ordered 1 Lb(of Filibusta, the very last they had in stock) and I haven't tried them all, but they all came in the same bag and I think 800 seeds is a pretty decent representative sample. I didn't bother to count all these seeds, but take the owner at his word that 1 Lb is about 3,500 seeds. I wasted a lot of time and resources on these seeds and not even a single lonely one germinated. It's now been over a month since they were started, not one sprout and now the seeds are starting to rot. It's just stopped me cold from trying to germinate anymore palm seeds. And if I ever do in the future, needless to say I will not be ordering anymore from Anderson's Seeds Company. Now to be fair, I didn't try the Filifera, but it's bad enough I wasted money(with so much excitement for hundreds of plants) on seeds that weren't any good. But before I found out that their seeds weren't any good, I was in negotiations to buy some more seeds of different species from them and whomever I was negotiating with via email was incredibly RUDE and extremely non businesslike. I'll never purchase from them again and I most certainly don't recommend them to anyone else, that is for sure.

Edited by sonobeau

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howfam
3 hours ago, sonobeau said:

Oh, the irony! This seed company that you speak of just happens to be the very  business I ordered the aforementioned seeds from. I ordered 1 Lb(of Filibusta, the very last they had in stock) and I haven't tried them all, but they all came in the same bag and I think 800 seeds is a pretty decent representative sample. I didn't bother to count all these seeds, but take the owner at his word that 1 Lb is about 3,500 seeds. I wasted a lot of time and resources on these seeds and not even a single lonely one germinated. It's now been over a month since they were started, not one sprout and now the seeds are starting to rot. It's just stopped me cold from trying to germinate anymore palm seeds. And if I ever do in the future, needless to say I will not be ordering anymore from Anderson's Seeds Company. Now to be fair, I didn't try the Filifera, but it's bad enough I wasted money(with so much excitement for hundreds of plants) on seeds that weren't any good. But before I found out that their seeds weren't any good, I was in negotiations to buy some more seeds of different species from them and whomever I was negotiating with via email was incredibly RUDE and extremely non businesslike. I'll never purchase from them again and I most certainly don't recommend them to anyone else, that is for sure.

Sorry for your bad experience with this company, but my experience was just the opposite (luck of the draw I guess). The owner was very nice and honest about the nature of the seeds, saying they were the "select" grade. Seeds sprouted exactly 2 weeks after planting, and now I have more seedlings than I can pot up. You might try them again , and ask how fresh the seeds are before you buy.

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Jan Jo
19 hours ago, sonobeau said:

Oh, the irony! This seed company that you speak of just happens to be the very  business I ordered the aforementioned seeds from. I ordered 1 Lb(of Filibusta, the very last they had in stock) and I haven't tried them all, but they all came in the same bag and I think 800 seeds is a pretty decent representative sample. I didn't bother to count all these seeds, but take the owner at his word that 1 Lb is about 3,500 seeds. I wasted a lot of time and resources on these seeds and not even a single lonely one germinated. It's now been over a month since they were started, not one sprout and now the seeds are starting to rot. It's just stopped me cold from trying to germinate anymore palm seeds. And if I ever do in the future, needless to say I will not be ordering anymore from Anderson's Seeds Company. Now to be fair, I didn't try the Filifera, but it's bad enough I wasted money(with so much excitement for hundreds of plants) on seeds that weren't any good. But before I found out that their seeds weren't any good, I was in negotiations to buy some more seeds of different species from them and whomever I was negotiating with via email was incredibly RUDE and extremely non businesslike. I'll never purchase from them again and I most certainly don't recommend them to anyone else, that is for sure.

Hi Andrew,  I live in Spain and have two large seeding Filibustas, I've never sent seeds before but I'm happy to stick some in an envelope and send them to the US if you're interested and if you think they'll get thru customs? No payment needed (send me a PM if you like).  A couple of pics of the parents... 

IMG_20200801_125516_copy_750x1000.jpg.b97e7b1db858abd2a23236e6a67dcafd.jpg

IMG_20200801_201308_copy_750x1000.jpg.944a5fad91f824096d638fe0f7f68497.jpg

Cheers, 

Jan Jo

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Padraic

I would say the seed is not good when the heat (90-100 F) and moisture are going good. The seed I collect in my area was very robust. I have two friend / neighbor trees that I can collect with great sucess. Since I am new to palm, I am still learn to improve. 

In my area, Washingtonian Palm is the most easy to grow palm in the AZ hot desert heat. Tree seeds pods are everywhere in the neighborhood. I had these from my neighbor's Filifera in late fall. Soak and plant the seed in plain potting soil / seed tray in the summer. It germinate within two weeks with daily water under 90+ temperature under 70% shade cloth.  I moved them to individual pot. It had 50% survival rate since I disturb their root by transfer them late. Next time I will move them early.

When I first start, I pull them off the ground next the mother tree in my friend's yard with little root left. Got a 1000 of little plants, it was like weeds. I put them in water for a few days and all went to one big pot (not knowing what to do).  Eventually (after 6 months) I have separated them to individual pot. That process eventaully reduce successful plant down to 10 to 15 plants. They probably take another year to reach 1/2 gallon size.

Late this year, I will try that again and improve my process. The spring of 2019, Walmart sold a lot of Washingtonian (Mexican & California) at $7 to $24 for 1/2 gallon to 2 gallon. That was the faster way in Southwest AZ to get started with Washingtonian. I brought a few of those. Below is a picture how fast it grow in 18 months. 

image.png.cf90351165d151b48ca8997a6d2b34cd.pngSFBr1gumzRbPvWDVsTXFfidLDccrXWBJP9QCLn3oyaLlXeL8nE0NFv7XHXmcgZadnk_rrMBO1w3AqLTfFFZidL03HPaTN7S0dnkmyuFK2xZvmPmIpjjjQ1GvuhLsjp3NfyViaB35X8iD11dNVJ3JGMMOF_4LUhVMIGs8ShT-dV-LyubAOnQQE8jXTn-Y7e1Uo_qIEME1iyfdEoodPNnnJQdGvB4LW48Z9TYCELHT-v7OztcXL7nWlSCT2CHIK4FmxNdxo_R__eaJKS6Ou18yEGsZhfjdKPzEJY7ipi2xjcRmY7sMLT9dNTQ-nuKHVeUTeireEHUA2q7vgPsK8z0dMqKoIlpswlhaivcKf30cRgaM7mpvO4x6r_vKODDgK5vUV-N6ej-p1ie1qUazOPz9qc6Zmhubfg_TuID9UKBowNXzJx3DI-BPIdpysW0Ua9l13TJhWZykSPmd-MjnjjlNGvalaetDsY4BVCzGnBoTuWsV1tJVD3gmuMN4Q97GL1ku2ulzFTFAa6XV403oRE7ItcMN-qOin3wSCx4RRLuYo1_ppxGUzpz5U2dSRAzvOxYcIXiUQJIbYl0xy8A3n6Xqby11pHi1FhPQ_ImBkbrgzF1yp0NiaE8BRzJR_uQXXG6JOdLL5PDhBoGMnjoiB9I7Z5ueN7wFRZLOqD8bZSx3A7-71vqjgpt0bftsW0_PHg=w1848-h1721-no?authuser=0

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Padraic

This is one of the mother tree I collect from -  Washingtonia Filifera.  You can see the seed pod is out and eventaully seed is ready in a few more months.  As Jan Jo,  sonobeau, I can send you some seed later in the year if you like. 

vGazwzUjmVz7ZatTCAZ2EJ1zruwhYLIhNRHLLVLqE80L-MMjatFNh5RVMkzm64xb2fdluHbWuQj6z1F4SuGnDbVNY3FW05oYa0s8kFNCE5qt7alnZHxcnHPUAfq74g5JsC5TZkwW9uDQb54BaQQCgaNLkjv2wXg86Qjok2UbGZDs0i7pGrHiad-eoW7r2LVvYFbsadTI3Ophl02353dcvQDXZDWGhzMf69yPfGLMvm3uzjh_yX4K21mMs8Mn84pNVAUVyviH54dq6K7echx3l6yIjRP-i88OiopKWwRswblXYlBGvhqZA1y2HTOShGrcqIcduhq6BDqRa5VHyolHpR3ychbPUf8_EAmxuClWtfhXbFD6ZvfZaQI0HZMFRd2QhInKbsbHgJXAeQRiZEU4bhGOZv4SseZTsA05kipkuN02K00Ghl7awPmMAv4xejgERb5HXC_YkexUJkWkjCTrkOFjhyTD7YNHcQqVYnIqrd2Pt5XPAYiYV_r49ojp3GzIRXSzq5ogjf-bM1twggwTjOZ743vfoSlx8_x2YB-z29hkQWwE4nLR3dboSZ_NWdLt3eJKnV20ZYzVHEg7vSavCtVjqNiELXpGBZG1sSoIJ3KkRGrXx2LTilvf_ORVgjZnROhpmJmw6HpcyVg_KWtFBeNf1Yq5Uab9qn2vehowjQHfczLiLIJXBvcYqZYCmw=w1443-h1923-no?authuser=0

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