How Far North Can You Grow a King Palm In California?

[PalmTreeDude]

Does anyone know how far north a healthy king palm (Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, or another species if you know about one up north) can be grown in California? I have seen videos of them in San Francisco and the general San Francisco Bay area, there was even a video of some on YouTube in Lafayette, California. Are there any north of these areas? How far up along the coastline can they go before they struggle? I never heard of an exact northern limit for these on the west coast, so this topic is interesting to me. I know California has a ton of microclimates due to the ocean and topography. 

[TomJ]

Vista CA  for sure

[kinzyjr]

Theoretically further north to Brookings, OR:

[Josue Diaz]

There's a post here somewhere that links to a now defunct forum from the PNW. It had pictures of syagrus romanzoffiana, trunking archontophoenix and old Phoenix canariensis in Brookings, Oregon.

 

Inland that's a different story.  There are trunking archontophoenix in Fresno that predate the 2007 freeze. I'd imagine there are similar ones as far north as probably Sacramento since the entire central valley (made up of the San Joaquin & Sacramento Valleys) have an identical climate. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Josue Diaz

[Josue Diaz]

i should note, inland, within the Central Valley.  I don't think you could grow archontophoenix anywhere above 1200'. That pretty much limits them to the coastline and inland areas below that (the entire central valley). Snow is common down to 2000 feet in the Sierra Nevada and even on the coastal mountains from time to time. 

[Hillizard]

In my experience with Archontophoenix the challenges inland in northern California are not just winter cold but leaf scorch from summer sun.

[Josue Diaz]

8 minutes ago, Hillizard said:

In my experience with Archontophoenix the challenges inland in northern California are not just winter cold but leaf scorch from summer sun.

Yes, 100%. weeks on end of dry, 100F+ temps really takes a toll on them. 

 

Here's a map of sunset zones for Fresno County. The county has zones 5a to 10a (the map shows a few, very small pockets on the eastern edge of the valley, and others in neighboring Tulare County, where the commercial citrus orchards are). 

What's interesting is that the river gorges (San Joaquin and Kings Rivers) appear to provide some protected spots pretty far east past the valley floor. 

[RedRabbit]

2 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Theoretically further north to Brookings, OR:

I’ve actually thought some about moving to Brookings. It looks beautiful from the pics I’ve seen and apparently has a good microclimate... I’m not a fan of Oregon taxes but otherwise it seems really nice. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

35 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

I’ve actually thought some about moving to Brookings. It looks beautiful from the pics I’ve seen and apparently has a good microclimate... I’m not a fan of Oregon taxes but otherwise it seems really nice. 

The climate there is just way to chilly for my liking. Plenty of people would and do like that but too cold for me. Look at these averages! 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Jim in Los Altos

[kinzyjr]

@RedRabbit

My issue with living out west would be the cost of housing and living in general.  I had a chance to relocate to Anaheim, CA before I ended up here, but living in SoCal was just so expensive.  Even Las Vegas is fairly expensive nowadays.

@Jim in Los Altos

I typically like a warmer climate myself.  Mowing your grass when it's over 100F with 90% humidity does make you throw it up in the air (2 weeks ago).  Would I rather throw on a jogging suit everyday, or change clothes and shower three times per day because I'm sweating to death?  I guess it's option 2 since I am here.

Perfect Howea and Jubaea weather there, though!

[Jim in Los Altos]

8 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@RedRabbit

My issue with living out west would be the cost of housing and living in general.  I had a chance to relocate to Anaheim, CA before I ended up here, but living in SoCal was just so expensive.  Even Las Vegas is fairly expensive nowadays.

@Jim in Los Altos

I typically like a warmer climate myself.  Mowing your grass when it's over 100F with 90% humidity does make you throw it up in the air (2 weeks ago).  Would I rather throw on a jogging suit everyday, or change clothes and shower three times per day because I'm sweating to death?  I guess it's option 2 since I am here.

Perfect Howea and Jubaea weather there, though!

Expensive, yes. Insane here in Los Altos too. I could never afford to buy now. Median has passed $3 million. Taxes on that would be about $35,000.00 per year and that’s for an average 4 bedroom, 2 bath home on a quarter acre lot. Homes go on the market and are sold in a week. It’s the tech giants that are largely responsible in this area but it is breathtakingly beautiful and the climate is tops so I’m happy as long as my palms are happy. 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

10 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@RedRabbit

My issue with living out west would be the cost of housing and living in general.  I had a chance to relocate to Anaheim, CA before I ended up here, but living in SoCal was just so expensive.  Even Las Vegas is fairly expensive nowadays.

@Jim in Los Altos

I typically like a warmer climate myself.  Mowing your grass when it's over 100F with 90% humidity does make you throw it up in the air (2 weeks ago).  Would I rather throw on a jogging suit everyday, or change clothes and shower three times per day because I'm sweating to death?  I guess it's option 2 since I am here.

Perfect Howea and Jubaea weather there, though!

Having lived in all 3 areas, counting the days until i can wave goodbye to the Desert.. Like heat but after 4 years of the extreme end of that preference,  our brand of heat is too much.. When you wake up at 7am, and it is already close to 100F out, it gets old fast, lol..   That's not including the surprise effects of the heat i experienced back in 2017.. Something that never happened while living in Florida, Kansas or Ohio ( Miss Kansas in some ways, but too cold there, -or Ohio- ) Or growing up in San Jose and spending most summers outdoors.  No regrets on the last 4 years, but if i were looking at the options again, and were still set on moving to AZ again, i'd have chosen Tucson.. Still hot, but not as bad, or for near as long.. Rains much more, better scenery.. City is big enough, and nearby Mountains are close by. That said, every city has it's good and not so great points, including Tucson.

Cost of living may be somewhat more expensive out here in the west / California but it really comes down to where you want to live, and how close -to town- you really need to be to accomplish career related goals.. With remote working sure to become the norm after current events settle, who really needs to live "in the city" anyway. 

Yes, places like the S.F. Bay Area/ certain parts of Southern CA -closest to the coast- are extra expensive but there is a lot of room in between those places and areas which are less expensive, but not wayy out in the sticks ( or cactus, in our case, ha ha.. ).  Have noticed that, in all honesty, cost of living between living in AZ, CA, and Florida work out to about the same, especially these days though $$ are skewed in different directions when broken down to finer points..

Can see you enjoying living somewhere like up by Santa Barbra.. Perhaps San Luis Obispo, or somewhere in the North County area of San Diego. Maybe not right on the coast in Santa Barbra or San Luis O. but close enough to enjoy some of the benefits of it. A relative of my Mom is already looking at potential places to relocate in Southern CA when they leave Pennsylvania in a year or so.  Checking on land listings in the North/ east county of San Diego area every few weeks, prices still look reasonable..  Dare i say a little cheaper than what i'd assume, in some cases.

As far as Oregon,  I'd likely hate it, with a passion, lol.. My motto is " Anywhere north of where i grew up in San Jose is too cold " lol.  Only been north of the Golden Gate/ Sacramento once or twice.
 

[Ben in Norcal]

Archontophoenix do survive in Sac.  That's probably the limit inland.

[PalmTreeDude]

Thanks everyone! So it’s safe to say up to Brookings, Oregon directly along the coast and Sacramento inland (assuming you’re not too high in elevation)? That’s interesting to know. This is one of my favorite palms. 

[RedRabbit]

On 7/14/2020 at 3:20 PM, kinzyjr said:

@RedRabbit

My issue with living out west would be the cost of housing and living in general.  I had a chance to relocate to Anaheim, CA before I ended up here, but living in SoCal was just so expensive.  Even Las Vegas is fairly expensive nowadays.

@Jim in Los Altos

I typically like a warmer climate myself.  Mowing your grass when it's over 100F with 90% humidity does make you throw it up in the air (2 weeks ago).  Would I rather throw on a jogging suit everyday, or change clothes and shower three times per day because I'm sweating to death?  I guess it's option 2 since I am here.

Perfect Howea and Jubaea weather there, though!

After you get north of the San Francisco Bay Area it’s not so crazy expensive. Portland and the Seattle areas are pricey, but there’s plenty of communities where it’s fairly cheap. Brookings really isn’t that bad, and if you go further north to places like Ocean Park, WA it gets downright cheap. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by RedRabbit

[enigma99]

On 7/14/2020 at 11:10 AM, Josue Diaz said:

 

What's interesting is that the river gorges (San Joaquin and Kings Rivers) appear to provide some protected spots pretty far east past the valley floor. 

No way those river gorges are good spots to grow.  They are cold drains from the mountains above. A few hundred feet from the bottom might be ok though. Don’t know the area well enough 

[DoomsDave]

For whatever it's worth, I've found that Archies of all kinds have to have warm and moist, though, thankfully, not like coconuts.

I have grave doubts about growing in Oregon, but

I'm well susceptible to grand pictures to prove me wrong! Crow, eaten, will taste great in this case!

[GottmitAlex]

3 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

For whatever it's worth, I've found that Archies of all kinds have to have warm and moist, though, thankfully, not like coconuts.

I have grave doubts about growing in Oregon, but

I'm well susceptible to grand pictures to prove me wrong! Crow, eaten, will taste great in this case!

Good going on your last sentence Dave!

A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[Josue Diaz]

 

@DoomsDave I'm pretty sure there's an archontophoenix in this post next to the queen palm. I've seen other photos too, but the links to the Clousforest Forum are dead. 

[Josue Diaz]

On 2/10/2018 at 10:09 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

These are file shots of a few palms in Brookings, Oregon.

 

13 hours ago, enigma99 said:

No way those river gorges are good spots to grow.  They are cold drains from the mountains above. A few hundred feet from the bottom might be ok though. Don’t know the area well enough 

Might be worth a shot. I recently noticed several very healthy syagrus in Prather, which is 1600' up near the San Joaquin River. 

[DoomsDave]

The palm on the left in @Josue Diaz's top picture does indeed look like it might be a king. The one on the right appears to be a queen.

That's impressive. Guess I'm gonna have to go out and catch me a crow . . .

[kinzyjr]

23 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

The palm on the left in @Josue Diaz's top picture does indeed look like it might be a king. The one on the right appears to be a queen.

That's impressive. Guess I'm gonna have to go out and catch me a crow . . .

They go down a little better with some GOAT

[Darold Petty]

If you really want to push the high latitude, marine influenced microclimate you should trial Ceroxylon or Rhopalostylis.

[DoomsDave]

33 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

If you really want to push the high latitude, marine influenced microclimate you should trial Ceroxylon or Rhopalostylis.

And Juania too, if you can get one.

[sipalms]

There's Archontophoenix growing happy and healthily at Gore Bay near Christchurch, New Zealand. This is almost the same latitude, topography, climate as Brookings OR.

Also they are growing happily in areas of the hill and coastal suburbs of Christchurch which are virtually frost-free, as well as Akaroa to the south. All these locations in Canterbury New Zealand are within 42.8-43.8S latitudes. 

Looks like Brookings would get slightly cooler summers and slightly warmer winters than Christchurch, although Christchurch would probably be at less risk of extreme cold than Brookings.

 

[CodyORB]

On 7/14/2020 at 1:06 PM, Josue Diaz said:

There's a post here somewhere that links to a now defunct forum from the PNW. It had pictures of syagrus romanzoffiana, trunking archontophoenix and old Phoenix canariensis in Brookings, Oregon.

 

Inland that's a different story.  There are trunking archontophoenix in Fresno that predate the 2007 freeze. I'd imagine there are similar ones as far north as probably Sacramento since the entire central valley (made up of the San Joaquin & Sacramento Valleys) have an identical climate. 

What do you think of the climate up in Redding? I hardly heard anything palmy up there yet yet it seems like a 9b most winters.

Edited October 6, 2020 by CodyORB

[Jim in Los Altos]

2 hours ago, CodyORB said:

What do you think of the climate up in Redding? I hardly heard anything palmy up there yet yet it seems like a 9b most winters.

With these monthly averages, Redding should have a variety of palms growing there. High heat in the summer would limit it a bit. Brahea, Livistona, Washingtonia, Phoenix, Queen, Butia, and others would do well. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Jim in Los Altos

[tacobender]

I could not grow one in Fairfield CA unprotected. To cold. And my yard had a favorable microclimate for the area.

[Ben in Norcal]

1 hour ago, tacobender said:

I could not grow one in Fairfield CA unprotected. To cold. And my yard had a favorable microclimate for the area.

There's long-termers up in Sac, which should be colder than Fairfield.  They certainly do well here in Concord.

[tacobender]

Seemed like every other year we would see 25° - 26°  sometimes colder for many hours. Maybe if it was protected until it was large. I never seen one in town.  Queens are easy,  pygmy date palm usually frost burn. 

 One reason why I moved to warmer climate.

[Ben in Norcal]

12 hours ago, tacobender said:

Seemed like every other year we would see 25° - 26°  sometimes colder for many hours. Maybe if it was protected until it was large. I never seen one in town.  Queens are easy,  pygmy date palm usually frost burn. 

 One reason why I moved to warmer climate.

So many microclimates in the Bay Area!

[SCW]

I live in the town of Capitola about 2 blocks from the beach in Santa Cruz County (Monterey Bay). I thought I would give a king palm a try. They are so much better looking than a Queen. ( which are all over town) I planted a twin set together when they were about 6 feet tall 3 years ago. A nursery owner in Grover Beach who said add 1 pound of blood meal around the drip line once a month. The trees are over 12 feet already. I was told they were not really fast growers, but as soon as a new frond opens, a new shoot is right behind it. The only issue I am having is a bit of yellowing which it sounds like it needs a spray of iron. I don't know where "how far north" you live, but near the beach here the king palm seems to do well.

[Darold Petty]

SCW, welcome to Palmtalk ! 

  You should grow Howea.  I am always disappointed to see so few in your area.  All Tropical in Gilroy has reasonable prices for smaller ones.  (Howea is still an expensive palm)  

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

SCW, welcome to Palmtalk ! 

  You should grow Howea.  I am always disappointed to see so few in your area.  All Tropical in Gilroy has reasonable prices for smaller ones.  (Howea is still an expensive palm)  

 

On 12/6/2020 at 8:59 PM, SCW said:

I live in the town of Capitola about 2 blocks from the beach in Santa Cruz County (Monterey Bay). I thought I would give a king palm a try. They are so much better looking than a Queen. ( which are all over town) I planted a twin set together when they were about 6 feet tall 3 years ago. A nursery owner in Grover Beach who said add 1 pound of blood meal around the drip line once a month. The trees are over 12 feet already. I was told they were not really fast growers, but as soon as a new frond opens, a new shoot is right behind it. The only issue I am having is a bit of yellowing which it sounds like it needs a spray of iron. I don't know where "how far north" you live, but near the beach here the king palm seems to do well.

Agree w/ Darold.. Kings are great, and should do fine there.. Used to be some growing in a couple neighborhoods in Santa Cruz.. over by the Warf / Boardwalk.. Might? still be there.  ( Lived over the hill from there, near Los Gatos..  Was in Santa Cruz/ Capitola quite often in/after High School.. Been awhile since i have visited again though  )  Kentias are a fantastic choice for the area, and as mentioned, rarely seen.. If you have the space, plant both..  You won't regret it.  If you have never visited, the owner of the nursery mentioned is a great person to know/ talk with and purchase from locally.. Hope he's been doing well.

.. Welcome to the Forum/ Palm Talk..

[ExperimentalGrower]

On 7/14/2020 at 7:07 AM, PalmTreeDude said:

Does anyone know how far north a healthy king palm (Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, or another species if you know about one up north) can be grown in California? I have seen videos of them in San Francisco and the general San Francisco Bay area, there was even a video of some on YouTube in Lafayette, California. Are there any north of these areas? How far up along the coastline can they go before they struggle? I never heard of an exact northern limit for these on the west coast, so this topic is interesting to me. I know California has a ton of microclimates due to the ocean and topography. 

Yes, I’m growing King Palms in Vallejo. North Bay Area burbs. There are King Palms scattered around town, but just now becoming more popular showing up in droves in the big box stores.

[ExperimentalGrower]

On 12/6/2020 at 7:59 PM, SCW said:

I live in the town of Capitola about 2 blocks from the beach in Santa Cruz County (Monterey Bay). I thought I would give a king palm a try. They are so much better looking than a Queen. ( which are all over town) I planted a twin set together when they were about 6 feet tall 3 years ago. A nursery owner in Grover Beach who said add 1 pound of blood meal around the drip line once a month. The trees are over 12 feet already. I was told they were not really fast growers, but as soon as a new frond opens, a new shoot is right behind it. The only issue I am having is a bit of yellowing which it sounds like it needs a spray of iron. I don't know where "how far north" you live, but near the beach here the king palm seems to do well.

Impressive amount of growth for the cool Capitola climate. One pound of blood meal per month sounds like a lot, but it also sounds like it’s working out great. I think I have to triple my feeding schedule, lol

[DoomsDave]

On 7/16/2020 at 8:43 AM, kinzyjr said:

They go down a little better with some GOAT

Had some goat pozole yesterday!

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 7/15/2020 at 3:50 PM, PalmTreeDude said:

Thanks everyone! So it’s safe to say up to Brookings, Oregon directly along the coast and Sacramento inland (assuming you’re not too high in elevation)? That’s interesting to know. This is one of my favorite palms. 

What about Eureka, would they have any kings?

[ExperimentalGrower]

23 minutes ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

What about Eureka, would they have any kings?

Never seen one there, but doesn’t mean there aren’t.  Just not sure what’s Eureka’s average low temps are.

[UK_Palms]

There's a couple of Archontophoenix growing over here at 50N. This one is planted out at the Abbotsbury subtropical garden near Weymouth, Dorset. I think there are a couple of others in Cornwall and at the Abbey Gardens on Tresco too. I remember seeing another picture of a bigger one. There's bound to be a couple growing in central London as well, somewhere.

I'm not convinced for one second that they are long term here, although the Abottsbury one was planted very small and has been there a couple of years now. It has been doing okay and growing slowly. Southern England is probably the furthest spot from the equator that you could get an Archontophoenix through winter. I don't know about getting them through 'every' winter though...