How to create hybrid palms

[knikfar]

Hi all, 

     I'm sure this question has been asked a thousand times but I'm coming up empty on my Google sleuthing. Does anyone know what the rules are about what kinds of palms can be hybridized with other types of palms? Can palm shaped frond trees be hybridized with feather shaped frond trees? Has anyone tried to hybridize a needle palm with a date palm to create a super cold hardy date palm looking tree? Or maybe a windmill palm/pindo hybrid to create a more cold hardy pindo variety? 

[RaleighNC]

There are no firm rules, but the more distantly related two species are, the less likely the hybrid will be successful. Commonly, two species of the same genus are able to hybridize, and in many cases species from closely related genera can hybridize. But the pairings you mention are too distantly related to have a realistic chance of success.  Of the cold hardy palmate species, I doubt there are any feather palms that are closely related enough to produce a viable cross. It sure would be nice if it were possible.  I sure would love to have a hybrid needle x date. Would we call it a "neate" or a "daedle" palm?

[Manalto]

Does there exist a "family tree" (so pun-ish, me!) to ascertain the distances of the relationships and to determine which combination of genera might be worth a shot? I've been saying that needle palms need a genetic shot in the arm (somebody stop me!) for years. (Okay, for weeks.)

A Butia-Phoenix hybrid (were it possible) sounds like it would be a really tough and resilient palm.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Manalto

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Yes there are rules and from what I understand it has to do with chromosome counts. Even though hybridization is theoretically possible that doesnt mean they will in real life aka butia and coconut.  When comparable species from different genus cross they will produce a self sterile offspring.  Only inter genus hybrids tend to be fertile.  

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, Manalto said:

Does there exist a "family tree" (so pun-ish, me!) to ascertain the distances of the relationships and to determine which combination of genera might be worth a shot? I've been saying that needle palms need a genetic shot in the arm (somebody stop me!) for years. (Okay, for weeks.)

A Butia-Phoenix hybrid (were it possible) sounds like it would be a really tough and resilient palm.

This thread will help some: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/59220-palm-phylogenetic-tree/

There was another thread with a really neat graphic, but having trouble locating it at the current time.

 

[Manalto]

Thanks, Kinzy. This is the stuff palm daydreams are made of.

[kinzyjr]

On 7/15/2020 at 5:34 AM, Manalto said:

Thanks, Kinzy. This is the stuff palm daydreams are made of.

You're welcome.  After a little bit of searching, I finally found that neat little graphic and the associated link:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Phylogenetic-tree-of-the-palms-Arecaceae-with-generic-level-sampling-based-on-the_fig2_299104373

 

[Manalto]

Look at that - Licuala and Livistona, cheek-by-jowl. Just maybe?

[Aceraceae]

OK the most obvious cold Hardy ultimate hybrid would be needles and windmills of course hoping for a filibusta type hybrid where it may not be as ultimately good as either in their original strong suits but would lie in between a with a little extra good from each direction. 

Maybe Hardy to negative 5F versus 5F like windmill, if not the near negative 20 F like needles, and able to grow well in warm 70 to 80ﾟ summers vs the near 90 needles need, if not quite truly cool northern europe 50 60 degree summer hardy like windmills. 

[coco305]

I feel like palmtalk should all join together to make a cold hardy coco with bright orange coconuts that can survive even the harshest freezes

its what everyone wants lets be honest

[PalmsandLiszt]

6 hours ago, coco305 said:

I feel like palmtalk should all join together to make a cold hardy coco with bright orange coconuts that can survive even the harshest freezes

its what everyone wants lets be honest

Has anyone ever successfully crossed anything with Cocos? There have been plenty of successful crosses between various other cocosoid palms, e.g. Butia x Parajubaea, which looks a very similar genetic distance to that between Butia or Jubaea and Cocos. I wonder if it hasn't been tried simply because of the unlikelihood of getting such a combination to grow in the same climate, rather than that it cannot be done.

[coco305]

On 9/18/2023 at 6:56 AM, PalmsandLiszt said:

Has anyone ever successfully crossed anything with Cocos? There have been plenty of successful crosses between various other cocosoid palms, e.g. Butia x Parajubaea, which looks a very similar genetic distance to that between Butia or Jubaea and Cocos. I wonder if it hasn't been tried simply because of the unlikelihood of getting such a combination to grow in the same climate, rather than that it cannot be done.

I feel like the number of people who talk about making hybrids and the people who actually do in large scale operations is VERY small.  the cold hardy cocos are the holy grail of palmtalk but outside this community nobody cares about cold hardy cocos.  so I think its worth a try

[amh]

I've mentioned before that I want a NannorrhopsXTahina. I think that would be awesome, if possible.

[WSimpson]

I'm planning on a hybrid of Trachycarpus Princeps (green form) with Trachycarpus Nainital . I'm sure  those are close enough to hybridize . I'm hoping for a slightly hardier palm than the Princeps  with more elegant fronds than the Nainital  . 

I just hope that my Princeps is a female . Below are the 2 palms .

My Nainital is still shaking off that cold snap last December . All the fronds , where that hairy fiber is , were  healthy fronds that were killed after that cold snap , and I cut them off . The Princeps was in that more protected microclimate and actually had less damage , and it also has grown out faster than the Nainital . 

Does anybody see a problem with those 2 hybridizing ? 

Will