Are there any palms would thrive in a zero draining pot?

[CodyORB]

I have these 2 large ceramic pots that I filled with regular potting soil,  one has a tangerine tree and the other is vacant. I noticed that during long periods of rain they had a tendency to "flood", something that would take several days to "recover" from (which I learned was just sun evaporation). They remain moist even without rainfall or irrigation as well. The tangerine has been planted there for months and hasn't ran into any issues with root rot etc.

Some investigation found that they in fact have zero drainage at all. I'm aware of some species (cyrtostachys renda for example) thriving in "aquatic" conditions, though this is a much different environment from, say, a koi pond. The one on the right is successfully being used as a community pot with seedlings.

Edited July 12, 2020 by CodyORB

[Allen]

I Assume you know you could drill holes in them if you wish.  I drill holes in the sides of these in the side about 1-2" from the bottom using a masonry bit.  As far as palms that can take no drainage in pots I'm no help.

[oasis371]

The 0 drainage that those ceramic planters provide is lethal to all Citrus and most likely most if not all species of palms.  YES, there are some species of palms that are classified as water-loving to the extent that they need near constant moisture and inhabit river banks. I suppose if you were extremely careful with watering, you could grow one of these (the common Majesty palm is one such water lover).  But as said above, it's really easy to drill drainage holes into most of these decorative pots without destroying the planter.  

[Steve Mac]

And one other thing Cody, although the pots are a lovely shape to look at they are a horrible shape to get a palm out of later. The tight neck prevents a large rootball from coming out when it needs repotting. Sorry that is not the answer that you are looking for.

I have been there and done that and would now only put a palm into a straight sided pot that is wider at the top. But I'm sure that there are other plants that would survive in there.    

But to answer your question look here.  I found it under 'water loving palms'.

  https://homeguides.sfgate.com/tropical-palms-species-grow-shallow-wet-soil-104298.html

 

 

 

[palmsOrl]

Nypa fruticans (no idea where to souce, yet alone how to grow it), Cyrtostachys renda, a young Roystonea regia perhaps.

But actually, following repotting my Cyrtostachys renda, I noticed during watering and even more so after that wet period, that the water was taking hours and hours to drain so that it was puddled on top of the soil.  The drainage screen I put in place is allowing for only very slow drainage of excess water.  So I picked it up to bring it onto the porch and the soil had that smell.  Thus, I am letting it dry out some and will soon repot it yet again because even though C. renda is a swamp-dwelling species, I don't want it sitting in rotting soil.

Thus, my answer is, I would always have a drainage hole for any potted palm, because having a pot full of mud and standing water is not the same as a swamp, the mud and water of which gets naturally aerated.

[Funkthulhu]

GTSteve has a point on pot shape.  I would find a sleeve-style nursery pot that is barely under the diameter of the opening of those terra cottas.  (though you should still pop a drain hole low on the side or on the bottom)  Repot into the sleeve, slide sleeve into terra cotta, and you get to keep your look while giving your palm/citrus more drainage.  If the hole in the terra cotta gets plugged you can slide out the sleeve, dump/wash out the terra cotta, and slid it back in.  

 

[Silas_Sancona]

22 hours ago, oasis371 said:

The 0 drainage that those ceramic planters provide is lethal to all Citrus and most likely most if not all species of palms.  YES, there are some species of palms that are classified as water-loving to the extent that they need near constant moisture and inhabit river banks. I suppose if you were extremely careful with watering, you could grow one of these (the common Majesty palm is one such water lover).  But as said above, it's really easy to drill drainage holes into most of these decorative pots without destroying the planter.  

Agree !00%.. The difference between water loving plants that grow near ..or in wet soil, and one growing in a pot that doesn't drain comes down to the fact that in nature, 9 X's out of 10, water is always moving over the roots of X plants growing in such conditions.. In a pot, that water sits and isn't naturally aerated, becomes stagnant, and increases the decay process of any and all organic material in the soil mix creating Anaerobic conditions, Ie: no or very little Oxygen is cycled through the soil. Roots deprived of Oxygen start to die off and this starts an advanced decaying process.. in which bacteria ( that live w/out Oxygen ) start to thrive, eventually killing whatever is being choked to death..  Damage doesn't always show itself right away either.. 

While Clay and un-glazed Ceramic container do breathe, would definitely drill some holes in those pots to allow excess water from causing problems.

[Pal Meir]

Yes, there are many genera & species. The (only?) problem is your soil mix. You have to use non rotting soils like Seramis, LECA, mixed with coir and/or pine bark. Here two examples: Arenga engleri var. ryukyuensis & Phoenix rupicola, both in clay pots with out any holes:

Cocos nucifera & Syagrus romanzoffiana are good candidates, too.

 

[Pal Meir]

And here two further examples, both in marble pebbles:

Acoelorrhaphe would have no problems, too.

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

Acoelorrhaphe would have no problems, too.

I have my Acoelorrhaphe seedlings in such a mix at the moment - I might try this with one of them to compare with the others since I have such a container that is not in use.  Thanks for the idea!

[CodyORB]

Thank you all for your advice!

Between the lack of aeration and the "lip" design of the pots I decided it wouldn't be a good idea to plant a palm in there (aside from germination). The walls of the ceramic are too thick to drill holes into with the equipment I have available.

I plan to move the citrus tree out, it definitely is an anomaly that it's doing well in these conditions.

[oasis371]

You can always use them for true aquatics (papyrus, etc.).

[Steve Mac]

On 7/15/2020 at 6:00 AM, CodyORB said:

I plan to move the citrus tree out, it definitely is an anomaly that it's doing well in these conditions.

Cody, it is not an anomaly, it is a time thing. There are a lot of variables to growing ... anything. Your citrus may do well for another year or two even. But it would die very prematurely. I have grown palms here, and one specific one, a Chamaedorea metalica, against all of the rules (big pot, heavy, cheap compostable potting mix and soil, very slow to drain) for 10 years, it held over two dozen leaves. I could not understand why other people were being so fussy. Then it all went south when the mix at the bottom suddenly became stinking, rotting sludge. I didn't know until I pulled the dying plant out.

[Fusca]

So here is my smallest Acoelorrhaphe wrightii seedling potted in coir and Seramis (Turface MVP) with no drainage holes.

 

[Padraic]

Speaking of no drain in pot. What about high drain? Big box store large palm pot tend to have a high drain hole instead at the bottom. High drain tend to collect water at the bottom, when too much water. I had one spell rotten when I re-pot. Best to have modify the drain hole at the bottom, so it won't do that.

 For nursery or store, high drain save water bill if do it just right from my guess. 

Big box 

[Allen]

12 hours ago, Padraic said:

Speaking of no drain in pot. What about high drain? Big box store large palm pot tend to have a high drain hole instead at the bottom. High drain tend to collect water at the bottom, when too much water. I had one spell rotten when I re-pot. Best to have modify the drain hole at the bottom, so it won't do that.

 For nursery or store, high drain save water bill if do it just right from my guess. 

Big box 

I think many palms can handle the high drain pot idea.  Over winter most of my potted palms sit in 2" pans that I water until the pan gets full and don't water again until the pan is dry.   I also use the pot trick it for water loving tropicals like Elephant Ear and I just put duct tape over the inside of the bottom hole and drill a hole on the side higher up depending on what's in the pot.  

[Padraic]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

palms sit in 2" pans that I water until the pan gets full and don't water again until the pan is dry. 

Allen, you raised a key point "the pan is dry".  In the high drain pot, if allow to dry. That is actually great for the plant. The problem is when it didn't allow to dry, rot will develop. You can easily see a sauce pan outside if it is dry. With this commercial one and without experience, you can't see it and pool water more than the plant can take up. A person or a dripper setting can mistakenly keep adding water before it dry. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Padraic