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Antonio88

Palms to Put by Pool

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Antonio88

Hello everyone! I am currently designing a pool to put in our backyard and we want to put some palms behind the pool in between the pool and our back properly line. We want some palms to give us a nice look for our pool area and also some privacy since there are some apartments behind us. I am thinking of leaving 4-6 feet between the pool back wall and the property backline, which has a concrete divider in the soil. This would be the space for the palms. I am thinking of putting a combination of Foxtail Palms and Pigmy Date Palms to create different layers of height. My questions are: Do you think these palms' roots will be problematic given the space I have? Anyone think they could cause damage to the pool? Are these the best palms to put or any other suggestions? Thank you!

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kinzyjr

Hello @Antonio88 and welcome to the forums.  For privacy screening without dominating the landscape, Dypsis lutescens or Acoelorrhaphe wrightii would probably work.  Both are pretty dense clumpers.  I believe Dypsis lanceolata would work too if you want an even more tropical look.  You have a lot more options in your location than we do here in Central Florida due to the absence of cold snaps.

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Jim in Los Altos

Don’t worry about the roots. Most palms can be planted close to pools without any future root damage since the roots stay small in diameter and arrant woody. Resorts often plant palms within inches of pool wall and other structures. Seasonal fruit drop into the pool from mature palms can be nuisance though.

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Merlyn2220

If you are looking for a solid privacy screen the Dypsis Pembana, Dypsis Lutescens (Areca palm) and Caryota Mitis (Fishtail) make a dense screen.  They grow reasonably tall without being too large of a diameter.  White bird of paradise also makes a good screen, as do some clumping bamboo like Bambusa Eutoldoides Viridi-Vittata (Asian Lemon), Bambusa Guangxiensis (Chinese Dwarf), Bambusa Maligensis (Seabreeze), and Bambusa Chungii Barbellata (Baby Blue).  Bamboo can be pretty messy though, so it might not be a good idea around a pool.

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sgvcns

Antonio

The palms won't cause damage to the pool but be careful to not have pipe work nearby. Roots can get between the pipes and pool causing cracks/leaks over time.

Beware foxtail palms due to the prolific seeding creating mess. Pygmy date aren't great if you need to avoid the spines. Avoid any bamboo again due to mess and leaf drop into the pool.

Oenocarpus mapora forms nice clumps with red new leaves. Ptychosperma are a good screen also and grow pretty vertically. Dypis lutescens spreads out a lot. I've seen 10m spread on older clumps from 3m base shoots. lanceolata is much more vertical and manageable in the space. Can't beat lipsticks for colour so a good option.

Maybe heliconia to fill gaps and add a different texture. There is a very active Heliconia society in PR and so obtainable.

Lots of options

Steve

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masatepino

Pinanga coronata could be also interesting to create a privacy screen.  and maybe combined with some higher palms.

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Antonio88

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! We're not exactly looking for a complete privacy screen. Just a nice tropical landscape to look at which can also incidentally provide some privacy. Also looking for something with good height so that we can see it from our bedroom on the second floor. Some of the palms usually used to create privacy screens we don't love since they look a little messy. That is why we were thinking the foxtail/Pygmy date combination to have different heights of foliage. Everyone think about 5 feet in between the back wall and the pool should be enough to plant the palms?

The Dypsis lanceolata look nice and could be a good option too. @kinzyjr and @sgvcns how fast do those grow? How tall do they get?

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kinzyjr
2 hours ago, Antonio88 said:

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! We're not exactly looking for a complete privacy screen. Just a nice tropical landscape to look at which can also incidentally provide some privacy. Also looking for something with good height so that we can see it from our bedroom on the second floor. Some of the palms usually used to create privacy screens we don't love since they look a little messy. That is why we were thinking the foxtail/Pygmy date combination to have different heights of foliage. Everyone think about 5 feet in between the back wall and the pool should be enough to plant the palms?

The Dypsis lanceolata look nice and could be a good option too. @kinzyjr and @sgvcns how fast do those grow? How tall do they get?

I can confirm that Foxtails (Wodyetia bifurcata) and Pygmy dates (Phoenix roebellini) are very messy as far as fruit drop.  One mature Foxtail can literally fill an entire max size USPS box full of seeds and still have offspring left over for the neighbors.  The Pygmies I have in front put off thousands of seeds and the birds don't mind carrying them to obscure places to sprout.  Foxtail seeds and fronds would be relatively easy to remove from the pool with a few dives, but Pygmy date palm fronds are armed ("punch a hole through a glove if you're not careful" armed) and the seeds would really be a pain in the neck unless you sweep them into your filter and empty from there.

Dypsis lanceolata are the proverbial mid-size clustering palm that tops out somewhere between 15-20ft normally.  They are typically regarded as a moderate-to-fast grower. 

A few references:

https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Dypsis_lanceolata

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/44115-dypsis-lanceolata-growth-rate/

http://www.palmbeachpalmcycadsociety.com/palms/documents/DypsisLanceolata.pdf

https://www.oxleynursery.com.au/plant-profiles/palms/ivovowo-palm-dypsis-lanceolata/

https://www.junglemusic.net/palms/dypsis-lanceolata.htm

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Merlyn2220
9 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

I can confirm that Foxtails (Wodyetia bifurcata) and Pygmy dates (Phoenix roebellini) are very messy as far as fruit drop.  One mature Foxtail can literally fill an entire max size USPS box full of seeds and still have offspring left over for the neighbors.  The Pygmies I have in front put off thousands of seeds and the birds don't mind carrying them to obscure places to sprout.

I don't have any experience with seeding on Foxtails, but my Pygmy dates are relatively easy to snip off the buds before they make seeds.  The problem (as Kinzyjr mentioned) is that they are very very stabby, so getting your hand in there to clip off the fruiting spear can be difficult without drawing blood.

If you like the Dypsis Lanceolata, there are a lot of other similar Dypsis that you might like.  Some I can't grow here in the ground in zone 9B/9A borderline, so I haven't bothered to try them.  You could look into Dypsis Leptocheilos, Baronii, Madagascariensis, Onilahensis, Pembana, Robusta, "Orange Crush" and others.  Some of them might be too large of a diameter for your pool area.  The Dypsis Pembana I have here are the fastest palms in my ~150 palms in the ground, going from 3 feet to 10 feet in about 15 months.  Here's a photo of that Pembana cluster next to a Pygmy Date palm triple that's about 10-15 years old:
1716545664_P1060298cropped.thumb.JPG.24f2f66369cd79d5e27a3862e81ea135.JPG

Other ones you might consider are Dictyosperma Album, aka the "Hurricane Palm" which should grow well in PR.  Gaussia Princeps, the "other bottle palm," and Hyophorbe Lagenicaulis (Bottle) and Verschaffeltii (Spindle) could be a nice mix of leaf textures.  An unusual smaller shrub type is Allagoptera Arenaria aka "Seashore Palm" which is very slow growing but has interesting recurved leaves and is very heat/sun/salt tolerant.

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Silas_Sancona
28 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:


Other ones you might consider are Dictyosperma Album, aka the "Hurricane Palm" which should grow well in PR.  Gaussia Princeps, the "other bottle palm," and Hyophorbe Lagenicaulis (Bottle) and Verschaffeltii (Spindle) could be a nice mix of leaf textures.  An unusual smaller shrub type is Allagoptera Arenaria aka "Seashore Palm" which is very slow growing but has interesting recurved leaves and is very heat/sun/salt tolerant.

Was thinking the same thing/ something similar..  Kentiopsis, Dictyosperma, Carpoxylon, Pseudophoenix.. for some taller, background ideas.. First two produce small seed and aren't too messy.. Carpoxylon might produce bigger seed but.. It's a Carpoxylon.. You'll understand once you look it up, lol.    

Pseudophoenix also produce decent-sized seed ( Not nearly as big as Foxtails, Veitchia, or X Foxy Lady though ) but are slower ..and add some nice blue /sea green tones to the foliage palate..  Both Hyophorbe suggestions, and the Dypsis suggestions shared by Kinzyjr are great also..  D. lanceolata  is spectacular when well grown.

As someone else had mentioned earlier on, being in Puerto Rico.. you could get away with stuff people in South FL. could only dream of growing exceptionally well..  Whatever you decide on, look forward to seeing pictures of how it all comes together..

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sandgroper

I have lots of clumping golden canes around my pool, they work really well at screening the back fence in a very narrow area of just over one and a half metres wide.

Screenshot_20200708-120529_Gallery.jpg

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GottmitAlex
12 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

I have lots of clumping golden canes around my pool, they work really well at screening the back fence in a very narrow area of just over one and a half metres wide.

Screenshot_20200708-120529_Gallery.jpg

Wooow! Spectacular!:yay:

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sgvcns

yes a good choice in Perth.

PR would be a whole different ballgame.

Lanceolata for me are much better. after 12 years from 6inch pot in full sun 6-8m clear trunk. Haven't had to thin except for 1 sucker  and has stayed to 5 trunks.

Steve

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GottmitAlex
14 minutes ago, sgvcns said:

yes a good choice in Perth.

PR would be a whole different ballgame.

Lanceolata for me are much better. after 12 years from 6inch pot in full sun 6-8m clear trunk. Haven't had to thin except for 1 sucker  and has stayed to 5 trunks.

Steve

Sorry, what's PR?

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waykoolplantz

Puerto Rico

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waykoolplantz

include B Fenestralis. i have a few in my oversize pool encl.  in pots here..in ground much bigger. Supercool pattern when viewed from above

D87E4AB1-12F9-45B4-B7E0-18420967A6ED.jpeg

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Jim in Los Altos

Check this out. Coconut palms growing right out of this pool! 

BA4A6645-FD31-420A-B788-FF588742FC04.jpeg.9d2d7b670e9e8e637041c53cf769514c.jpeg

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waykoolplantz

where...and a closeup of the bar please

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sandgroper
15 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Check this out. Coconut palms growing right out of this pool! 

BA4A6645-FD31-420A-B788-FF588742FC04.jpeg.9d2d7b670e9e8e637041c53cf769514c.jpeg

I've seen island gardens in pools before but that's really different! 

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greysrigging
4 hours ago, sandgroper said:

I have lots of clumping golden canes around my pool, they work really well at screening the back fence in a very narrow area of just over one and a half metres wide.

Screenshot_20200708-120529_Gallery.jpg

They were the flavour of the month back in the day in and around Darwin, but the Ganoderma has crueled them out here in the 'Burbs.... some say 90% have succumbed.... fair statement using my own yard as a data point. An ex lady friend had a great collection in and around her pool..... I think as long as they are watered and maintained in our climate they are OK. As soon as they're water stressed and not looked after the Ganoderma bug decimates them.
https://dpir.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/233595/834.pdf

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Kim

Your foxtails might be okay -- I don't have direct experience with them -- but the fruit is large enough, making it easy to clean up. Be sure you have room for the roots. Personally I like the idea of a few well-spaced Pinanga coronata—give them room, they can get large. Very colorful palms, and don’t constantly drop fronds like D. lutescens. I would avoid the pygmy dates at all cost. I have some that came with my house, and trimming the fronds with those evil spines is torture and usually I bleed! Plus the seeds are extremely prolific, and to trim the inflorescence prior to seeding means reaching up among the vicious spines again -- no way! As you are in a very fine climate, I suggest Licuala grandis or Genoma schottiana, if you can find either of them. The Licuala petioles are armed, but nothing compared to the spines on a pygmy date. 
Edited to add photos. First 2 pics, groups of Licuala grandis, 8 years in the ground from 1-gal. pots, now close to 5 ft. tall. 
 

FFE1B0C0-FF99-47BB-982B-45606F7D1151.thumb.jpeg.bb167cf6fe82e1d5863659ac329d0942.jpeg

0136AB79-48F6-4520-A83E-D38B8611BC28.thumb.jpeg.79667ba0d6c2b0fe00b1c58302c85750.jpeg
 

Below, Geonoma schottiana, also planted June 2012 from a 1-gal. pot, now maybe 5 1/2 ft. tall, a sweet petite palm. 
9417B041-6F9E-4E7E-B0C3-662E629A9810.thumb.jpeg.630c8a8cd9aa0271f62eafefe9d3e59d.jpeg

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V-Cycle

first pic is pembana next two are the D. Lanc. dirty and very solid not what you're looking for. also the pembana has a much wider leaflet for a more tropical appearance.

7567F6D4-CEA1-400B-BA47-C6CCF90EE2E2.jpeg

917381B5-E863-4918-86A1-5AB1527CBA55.jpeg

4E3CF6DB-4151-4426-BC62-CCC8AAFBD030.jpeg

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The Gerg

I think you mean the second two pics are D. Lutescens. Not lanceolata.

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V-Cycle
19 hours ago, The Gerg said:

I think you mean the second two pics are D. Lutescens. Not lanceolata.

Yes thank you

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gtsteve

What about Caryota mitis? Mine never dropped a leaf or a seed for over 20 yrs until it was at the end of it's life when it needed to be replaced anyway.  It was no maintenance for over 20 yrs. 

Caryota mitis I think is the cleanest and most exotic looking plant and the best for around a pool. 

Oh, and Hi Antonio, welcome to the forum.

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