Which of these two Washingtonias has more filifera in it?

[LivistonaFan]

Some background story: The last two winters were probably 10a (haven't checked the thermometer this year, but this winter most certainly was even milder than the previous one: -1.0°C/30.2°F). Therefore I even thought about planting much more marginal palms like for example Dypsis robusta. But after listening to some horror stories from a local who has witnessed olive trees dying back in the winter of 1985 and another person living nearby who claimed to have measured -8 °C with his car thermometer in early 2018 (local meteo sites say -3°C, some -5°C) I got disillusioned.

Back to the question: The two palms depicted are Washingtonia "robusta" raised from rps seeds. But clearly they don't seem to be 100% robusta although one would expect that from rarepalmseeds. One of these will get planted this summer (along with a Livistona nitida) and in case of a very extreme winter a good amount of filifera traits is imo crucial for it to have a chance of survival. 

The left palm has slightly greener petioles (trait of filifera?), but less tomentum (trait of robusta?) on the leaves than the right one. Therefore I can't decide for myself which is the better one to plant.

Edited June 27, 2020 by LivistonaFan

[Jubaea_James760]

I'd choose the one on the right. Looks a little more Filifera to me.

[kinzyjr]

I agree with @James760.  I guess since you suspect they are hybrids anyway, plant both (if possible) and see if either one lives through the next deep freeze.

[LivistonaFan]

2 hours ago, James760 said:

I'd choose the one on the right. Looks a little more Filifera to me.

You seem to have experience with cold Mediterranean winters (I read your signature). Have you tested Parajubaea in your climate? Because I have 4 Parajubaea Microcarpa almost ready to be planted. They are fascinating to me because one of them grew almost 7 (!) cm/2.7 in. of spear on a cold rainy day (day: 9°C/night: 1°C) . None of my other palms has grown so quick on a single day, not even in summer. Therefore the growing season could be a lot longer with Parajubaea in my climate, more like the length for Trachycarpus than Syagrus. 

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

I agree with @James760.  I guess since you suspect they are hybrids anyway, plant both (if possible) and see if either one lives through the next deep freeze.

Thank you both. I will plant the one on the right then.  I already have planted 4 W. filiferas. Unfortunately 3 of them got ripped out of the ground from wild boars.  But the fourth one is establishing itself quite nicely. As the wild boars come from time to time I might have a chance to plant the second W. robusta sooner or later too. I have also some Brahea super silver in cultivation which want to get planted within the next years, therefore there is some competition for space. The property is large enough for a few more palms, but there is still a commercial olive grove on it and I don't want to plant palms everywhere and shade the olive trees.

[Jubaea_James760]

@LivistonaFan, I don't have any experience with Parajubaea's unfortunately. I might try one, someday... 

Wow! Thats extremely fast growth in a day! Whats your general location? 

I have a Brahea Super Silver as well. Its growing well, I planted it a few months ago as a 3 gallon size.  On a side note, my Brahea Edulis is my fastest growing Brahea hands down. Its very cold hardy as well. 

[LivistonaFan]

The garden lies in the northern Mediterranean Bassin, elevated at 1450ft above sea level. July average is about 28/18°C and January average might be 10/3°C(a guess because there is no meteo station at a similar elevation). Therefore it's much cooler than your location regarding the average highs, maybe the average lows are similar.  Summer drought (more evaporation than precipitation) is only from mid-June to maybe mid-September, but humidity levels still remain often above 50%. October and November are really rainy and the winter is cold but rather dry (of course not as dry as yours). At slightly lower elevations there are some queen palms growing and they have survived the cold spell of 2010. At similar elevations there were some CIDP, one with at least 20 ft of trunk (now the RPW killed them) and some Washingtonia Robusta, one about 50 ft tall. Therefore I assume that the devastating cold spells are few and far between.

 

 

Does Brahea edulis also grow in your cooler months or is it just a summer grower? The similar appearance to W. robusta and the alleged slow growth prevented me in the past to buy one. But it seems that it might be ultra cold- and drought-tolerant and not as slow as I thought?

[Jubaea_James760]

5 hours ago, LivistonaFan said:

The garden lies in the northern Mediterranean Bassin, elevated at 1450ft above sea level. July average is about 28/18°C and January average might be 10/3°C(a guess because there is no meteo station at a similar elevation). Therefore it's much cooler than your location regarding the average highs, maybe the average lows are similar.  Summer drought (more evaporation than precipitation) is only from mid-June to maybe mid-September, but humidity levels still remain often above 50%. October and November are really rainy and the winter is cold but rather dry (of course not as dry as yours). At slightly lower elevations there are some queen palms growing and they have survived the cold spell of 2010. At similar elevations there were some CIDP, one with at least 20 ft of trunk (now the RPW killed them) and some Washingtonia Robusta, one about 50 ft tall. Therefore I assume that the devastating cold spells are few and far between.

 

 

Does Brahea edulis also grow in your cooler months or is it just a summer grower? The similar appearance to W. robusta and the alleged slow growth prevented me in the past to buy one. But it seems that it might be ultra cold- and drought-tolerant and not as slow as I thought?

Your location & temperatures seem doable for a Parajubaea. I'd definitely try one if i were you! 

As far as Brahea Edulis growth rate in cooler months it still comes in 1st place in terms of # of leaves put out. Its true they accelerate when the warm months come around but I'd say i got some healthy growth towards the end of winter into spring. Since January 1 total leaves it put out so far is 6! Definitely be a good contender for you.

[LivistonaFan]

On 6/28/2020 at 6:29 AM, James760 said:

Your location & temperatures seem doable for a Parajubaea. I'd definitely try one if i were you! 

As far as Brahea Edulis growth rate in cooler months it still comes in 1st place in terms of # of leaves put out. Its true they accelerate when the warm months come around but I'd say i got some healthy growth towards the end of winter into spring. Since January 1 total leaves it put out so far is 6! Definitely be a good contender for you.

After you had recommended it I had bought one last week online and voilà: 

Unfortunately it is greenhouse-grown and has been in a pot of the size of a coffee cup. But I am quite used to it as almost all palms for sale look like that here.

[Jubaea_James760]

Looks healthy! I hope it grows well for you. I look forward  to the updates! 

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, LivistonaFan said:

After you had recommended it I had bought one last week

Nice - one of my favorite Braheas.  Hope it does well for you!

[LivistonaFan]

10 hours ago, Fusca said:

Nice - one of my favorite Braheas.  Hope it does well for you!

 

11 hours ago, James760 said:

Looks healthy! I hope it grows well for you. I look forward  to the updates! 

Thank you. It sits now in 3/4 shade behind an Ensete Maurellii for the next few days and then I will slowly acclimatize it to full sun. I have to be careful because I have lost some greenhouse-grown palms over the last two years even with daily watering: Livistona jenkinsiana was mush within a day in half-shade, Chamaerops humilis cerifera burned all its leaves and never came back, Butia x Jubaea went in a slow but steady decline, Parajubaea TvT +Arenga engleri did the same . My newest loss is a Butia odorata. All of them are normally very sun tolerant palms. However, most palms do survive the first weeks here and after that period none has died yet (of about 30 different palm species in cultivation(most very small though)).

I will plant the B. edulis whenever the first tap root is coming out of the bottom of its pot and it has pushed at least one sturdy leaf.  But I am not sure if this will happen this year.