Palms for Very Windy Locations

[Phil]

I'd doing an article on Palms for Windy Locations.  I have my own ideas of the best palms for such conditions.  But, I haven't lived through hurricanes like some of you.  And, I don't live on a mountain peak with whistling air outside.   I've checked through our archives and didn't find this topic in the title search.  So, I'd like your input on the palm species that seem to best survive very windy conditions.   Thanks.

Phil

[Walter John]

Here's a start.

Dictyosperma album spp.

Howea forsteriana

Cocos nucifera

[Kamipalms]

I'd also have to agree with Wal, especially H.forsteriana.

I have a couple which are completly exposed and have seen inexcess of 140 km/h winds mid winter ( think wind chill factor) and have come through un touched while the Queens had been striped ( shame they didn't blow away ??? ). Come to think of it , my Pritchardia came through in perfect condition too.

if thats any help..

Jason.

[Phil]

Jason and Wal,

I agree that Howea seem to tolerate wind.  However, I'm surprised they survived 140 mph winds.  That's impressive.  Don't forget to comment on very common species for the benefit of others reading this thread.

Phil

[Phil]

Woops!

That's 140 "KPH" winds (half speed).  My being so darned non-metric, I forgot to translate correctly.

Phil

[SubTropicRay]

Just about any Coccothrinax and Thrinax.  I would say Sabal is king.

[Kamipalms]

around 90 mph Phil  ...

[Phil]

Group,

I was just reading the thread mentioning John Dowe's visit to Florida.  Sabal is mentioned as being great for hurricanes, just as Ray mentioned.  I think also Butia are excellent, but probably not as good as Sabal.  What about Trachy's, Bismarckia, other pinnate palms?

Phil

[Dave-Vero]

The only problem for Sabal palmetto is tipping due to waterlogged soil combined with wind.  The leaves hold together just fine.  John Dowe is working on responses to wind:

CFPACS

[palmazon]

Rhopalostylis

just a guess

[cfkingfish]

One palm you won't find toppled by any hurricane winds down here is Satakentia.

[amazon exotics]

Acoelorraphe wrightii ( Florida native ) Bismarkia, Carpenteria all the Phoenix, wodyetia ( they lose fronds, but grow back ) Washingtonia. These are my observations after numerous hurricanes in my area.

[elHoagie]

I had a severe Santa Ana in January of this year at my place, and several palms got the full force of 100 km/hr (60 mph) peak wind gusts for about 24 hours.  Here are some of my observations for palms exposed to the full force of the wind:

Roystonea - about 75% of the leaflets were stripped off the leaves, but it survived no problem.

Archontophoenix - maybe 10% of the leaflets were broken off, one leaf snapped along the rachis.

Bismarckia - had probably a 20 degree tilt, maybe 25% of the leaflets went limp, but none turned brown.

Howea - no damage.

Livistona nitida  - no damage.

Wodyetia - one leaf broken off along the rachis by debris, otherwise no damage.

Chambeyronia - most of the leaflets split in the center along their entire length, but all stayed green.

Pritchardia hillebrandii - one had two leaves break off at the petiole, and severe shredding of most of the other leaves.  The other had a couple leaves severely shredded, but most of the leaves survived with no problems.

Pritchardia minor - only minor damage, a few leaves shredded.

Dypsis decaryi - no damage.

Dypsis lutescens - no damage.

Burretiokentia hapala - only minor damage.

Brahea armata - only minor damage.

Dypsis baronii - no damage.

These are the palms that felt the full force of the wind.  All my other palms were fairly protected, and didn't suffer too much.

[Dave-Vero]

Washingtonias that grow on-site may be sturdier than those that were transplanted as adults.  Washies planted as parts of landscaping jobs fared poorly here.  Wilma's tropical storm winds finished off a whole row that peeped up above the town's only parking deck.  Meanwhile, ancient ones that had grown-in-place mostly did well (OK, a few are leaning).

Young Bismarkias are prone to lean over, and the leaves do NOT like wind (as in 90 mph)

Foxtail leaves don't seem to do well in category-1 hurricane wind, either.

Two livistonias in my neighborhood suffered not at all from two cat-1 hurricanes, but have been butchered by landscaping crews who in one case cut off all but one leaf.

Montgomery Botanical Center provides some info on wind damage last year at their website.

[SubTropicRay]

Hyophorbe also comes from hurricane prone areas and performs beautifully in 100+ mph winds.

[Scott]

el-Hoagie-  Did you correct the tilt on the Bismarkia? And if so, how?

[DoomsDave]

I think a distinction needs to be made between dry winds, like the Scirocco, or the Santa Anas, or the moist winds off the oceans.

Surviving an acute attack of wind, like a hurricane, is also a very different situation than continuous wind, like a windy island.  So, a palm like Dictyosperma survives a hurricane well, after its leaves are all blown off, but might not take daily wind.

Hmm.  This is a much more complicated (and interesting) topic than it appears at first blush.

Rhopalistylus take the blasts from Antarctica well, so a cool, moist wind doesn't bother them.  I'll bet that heel they form is an adaptation to stand up to it.  But, when they get hit for long by dry wind, they tend to give up very rapidly, especially small plants.

I'll ask around . . . .

dave

[elHoagie]

(Scott @ Aug. 02 2006,15:47)

QUOTE

el-Hoagie-  Did you correct the tilt on the Bismarkia? And if so, how?

No, I didn't do anything to correct it.  It's already starting to look a little straighter, hopefully I won't even be able to notice in another year or two.  The palm is only about 2.5m (8ft) tall, and doesn't have any trunk, so it's not as if the trunk will have a bend from it straightening out...

[Mike Evans]

I read an article where Fairchild Tropical Garden rated the best 5 wind tolerent palms & Dictosperma Album (Hurricane Palm) came out tops.  I guess the name speaks for itself.  I have first hand experience from Ann Nortons Sculpture Garden (West Palm Beach FL), After 3 hudge hurricanes, were just about every thing was blown to hell & back,  there was a 60' Vetchia Winnin ( I believe) that looked like nothing happened.  Full head of leaves & looked great!  That was another palm rated on FTG top 5.

[DoomsDave]

(Mikein FL @ Aug. 02 2006,20:03)

QUOTE

I read an article where Fairchild Tropical Garden rated the best 5 wind tolerent palms & Dictosperma Album (Hurricane Palm) came out tops.  I guess the name speaks for itself.  I have first hand experience from Ann Nortons Sculpture Garden (West Palm Beach FL), After 3 hudge hurricanes, were just about every thing was blown to hell & back,  there was a 60' Vetchia Winnin ( I believe) that looked like nothing happened.  Full head of leaves & looked great!  That was another palm rated on FTG top 5.

I also saw the pictures from last year, I think, where palms were snapped in two, like pencils by schoolkids (assuming they use pencils anymore).

I don't think you can really judge wind utility in light of extreme winds like a Cat-5 hurricane.

dave

[Robert Lee Riffle]

Mike, I haven't been there (the ANS Garden) in almost three years but I often remember that extraordinarily tall Veitchia and am so glad to know that it was not blown over.

Btw, I think it's an arecina rather than a winin.

Is the coco-de-mer still growing?

How 'bout that gigantic Ravenala?

[SunnyFl]

This thread is fantastic - really good, useful information in here!  I wish it could be pinned - at least during Season.

It was reported that, during Andrew (a cat 5), the little roebelenii held up incredibly well, being just about impervious to wind.  Sabals and lutescens held up in severe storms.

But there'd been so little info on many of the others - like Ptychospermas,  Raveneas and other species of dypsis, like the triangles.  El-hoagie, your list is great - thanks for posting that.

It would be difficult to compare the winds from a Santa Ana to those of a hurricane.  The SA winds are constant, and consistent battering from the wind causes cumulative weakening over a longer period of time.  OTOH, a cane's circling winds means that the battering first strikes from one direction, then after the eye passes over, the battering comes from the opposite direction.   So both are bad, just in different ways.

Then there's the rain - if a lot is dumped, tree roots tend to lose their purchase in the ground, and the tree is more likely to uproot.

[Walter John]

But there'd been so little info on many of the others - like Ptychospermas,  Raveneas and other species of dypsis, like the triangles

I have first hand experience with Dypsis decaryi, mine blew over to a fair angle in a storm, I straightened it up and had it tied up for nearly 12 months and she's back as straight as ever. I wish I had taken photos of it fallen over and show you today how it is.

[SunnyFl]

(amazon exotics @ Aug. 02 2006,10:55)

QUOTE

Acoelorraphe wrightii ( Florida native ) Bismarkia, Carpenteria all the Phoenix, wodyetia ( they lose fronds, but grow back ) Washingtonia. These are my observations after numerous hurricanes in my area.

I'd heard there were problems with Washingtonias snapping.  Did you see anything like that, or is it maybe an old-wives-tale.

[SunnyFl]

(Wal @ Aug. 02 2006,23:51)

QUOTE

I have first hand experience with Dypsis decaryi, mine blew over to a fair angle in a storm, I straightened it up and had it tied up for nearly 12 months and she's back as straight as ever. I wish I had taken photos of it fallen over and show you today how it is.

That's very interesting - how big were your decaryi, and do you have any idea as to the wind speed?

About my own dypsis, the Fine Leafs:  about a week or two after I'd planted them - they hadn't been in the ground long - a very windy th-storm came up, winds approx. 30-40mph.  We hadn't staked the palms, and they weren't the slightest bit damaged.  They're about 7' tall, from ground to top of palm.

Hyophorbe verschaffeltii - mine is about 8' and has been in the ground for several years.  It took approx 74mph winds in Jeanne 2 years ago with no damage (the R. glauca is only about 3-4' and protected by the spindle).  Of course, the roeb was fine, no problem at all.

Dave - thanks for posting about the Montgomery site.  I'll check it.  The more info we have, the better.

[DoomsDave]

Some palms that take a hurricane get TRASHED in a Santa Ana.  The dry heat just dries them out.

Hum a dirge for my KFC'd Dictyospermas.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .

dave

[Phil]

Group,

There's definitely a distinction between gale force hurrican winds and dry, hot Santa Ana winds.  In California, as we don't get hurricanes, the problem is more one of continual moderate ocean wind or Santa Ana winds.  But, if mild tropical winds snap leaves on a particular species easily, that is quite valuable information.  Such a species would undoubtedly have trouble in CA winds.  The posts above are giving good information.  Thanks.

Phil

[Gtlevine]

Phil, I was in Florida one week after the big hurricane last November. I saw areas wiped out with all the palms shreaded, but the one palm that looked like it had a protective shield was Carpoxalon's. The Carpoxalon's looked like they were indoors, just amazing.

Here in So Cal you know how windy I get up on the hill here in east county, those Santa Ana's are wicked and just torture everything. Besides the usually Phoenix varieties, Butia, etc... Ravenea Glauca is unphased by the dry winds. Also, Hedyscepes tolerated the winds amazingly well, much better than any other of the Lord Howe species. Of course Dypsis Decipians can take any conditions, the leaves hardly move in 70 mph gusts.

Gary

[NatureGirl]

After 3 hurricanes in 2 years (Frances, Jeanne, Wilma) here are some of the most wind tolerant in my yard. Sabal palmetto, Coconut, Dypsis decaryii, Hyphaene, Hyophorbes(spindle and bottle) and Latania's (this one was a big surprise because of the large whole fan leaves), Butia looked perfect. Some of the worst were Sabal mauritiiformis, Thrinax morrisii (every leaf broken) Syagrus schizo, almost every leaf broken and twisted.

[MattyB]

What about Chamaedorea adcendens?  I know it's usually planted in a protected spot, but what if it's under a high canopy that dosen't offer any wind protection?  Just a thought....anyone with any theories/experiences?

[Ken Johnson]

Actually Phil, when leaves snap off easily it makes the palm MORE hurricane proof! ( I guess your Santa Annas are different than hurricane winds as they happen EVERY year)) But loosing fronds in high winds is an advantage  because the "sail" is reduced. Yes the palm looks like crap for a year or two but at least it is alive. An example of palms, around here, that don't loose leaves and that get broken trunks in hurricane winds are Washintonia. The palms that hold there leaves and look "great" after a hurricane (force 5) are robellinii and Satakentia. There may be others but Those two are amazing. One to add to the list (as well as most all costal palms in a hurricane zone, after all that is where they EVOLVED) is Pseudophoenix sargentii.

[cryptobionic]

Personally, in my area, I've found that that Coccothrinax, Butia capitata, and the ubiquitous Phoenix roebelinii show the most resistance to wind without tattering. Also by observation, palms grown hard (full sun, with little or no additional fertilization and irrigation) seem to handle strong winds better than their pampered counterparts, most likely because of their slower, less succulent growth.

While experiencing several hurricanes, you don't need to endure one to test wind-resistance. Soaring down the highway with palms in the back of your truck seems to be a good method. I'll drive.

[Dave-Vero]

There's quite a bit of information on resistance to Florida-style windstorm damage.  Our biggest single info provider is IFAS, the University of Florida's agriculture branch.  Here's a short list they provide:

Queen palms are prone to falling over;

washington palms break;

royal palms loose foliage;

cabbage and Phoenix palms are able to stand firm in many hurricanes.

IFAS

The picture of decapitated Washingtonias is our own County Courthouse parking deck after Wilma.  These plants survived Frances and Jeanne, but this time the wind came from the other direction.

Broward County government doesn't recommend queen palms or washingtonias.

Broward

[Walter John]

That's very interesting - how big were your decaryi, and do you have any idea as to the wind speed?

Cyclonic speed, trees around the neighbourhood were swatted like flies, busted trees all over the place, some akined that storm to a mini tornado.

The lower leaves died off after the resurrection (straightening). Tough palm the old triangle, you gotta have one.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

In Last year's hurricane, I noticed that Bismarckias often had the spear leaf twisted enough to kill the heart.

CIDP were not even touched.  Most of the caribbean palms did well.

Hyophorbia did well.

Dypsis cabada blew over.

Ptychosperma lineare blew over.

Caryota mitis blew over

Caryota himilayana snapped in half.

Gaussia maya blew over (surprisingly)

Bactris gaspaes several stems broke off.

Dypsis madagascariensis several stems broke off.

My Thrinax radiata blew over too, didn't break the root ball though and grows at about 60 degrees from vertical.

Multi headed P. roebellinii, unfazed even at the dichotomous branches.

Copernicia baileyana and C. hospita torn up but fine now.

African oil palm fronds torn up but fine now.

Dypsis lucubensis snapped in half (one out of three)

Sabals  (causiarum, yapa) untrunked 8'-10' 3 or 4 years in the ground blown over.

Roystonea oleracea 30' tilted 45 degrees (grown in shallow soil on rock hardpan)

   "                "          12' skinny thrifty looking, broken at root plate

Cocos nucifera  especially the malayan cvs, tops shredded many croaked because could not recover.

Jerry

[DoomsDave]

Nature Girl!

Nice to meet you!

Hmm. SOme pix of your garden . . . .

dave

[PalmsZA]

Hi Guys

I used to live in a very windy place, I moved!

Palms that did well are :

Butia ( no-one has mentioned these )

Syagrus oleracea

All Phoenix

Livistona chinensis

Howea

Hyophorbe

If Phil is asking what palms can handle lots of strong wind and still look good, the above palms are tops. A freak storm or Hurricane is another story, most palms will look like crap.

Cheers

Dennis

[SunnyFl]

These lists are very informative - Phil, thanks for this thread.

Maybe I missed something, but has anyone had experience with Raveneas in hurricanes?

Interesting what Gtlevine said about the glauca being "unfazed" by the hot dry winds of CA.  Not surprising - it seems to weather droughts quite well too.  (Its tolerance of arid conditions should also make it a far better choice for indoor culture than the riv.)

What little I've read about the wind-resistance of palms in hurricanes indicates that Phoenix is very stable, with the roeb being the star performer.  And Sabal and Butia are very good as well.

Dypsis lutescens reported loses fronds in major hurricanes but isn't as prone to uprooting as some others.  And leaf loss doesn't seem too important in palms that put out new fronds quickly.

[Tyrone]

I would say that those from the Mascarenes, such as any Hyophorbe, Dictyosperma and Acanthophoenix should do OK in a hurricane, except maybe a strong cat 5, as the Mascarenes are a high risk cyclone area at about 20S. Howea do take strong buffeting wind too without much damage, and I'd say the same for Hedyscepe being a mountain Lord Howe Island palm.

Also when looking at footage of the aftermath of Cyclone Larry up in North Queensland, houses were destroyed with brick walls knocked over etc, but only 15-20ft away were fairly good looking stands of Carpentarias. Those things are tough. Veitchia's are meant to be tough also.

regards

Tyrone

[BS Man about Palms]

If you knew a "big one" was coming, would it be advantageous to cut off some of the lower fronds?    (Like you had nothing else to do I guess )