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Dusty CBAD

Rhopalostylis recommendation?

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Dusty CBAD

This is escalating quickly. I just removed a mature orange tree to make room for my rapidly developing palm addiction. It’s one of my “premier” spots in my yard- I’ll see whatever I plant there every time I step outside. The spot is basically full sun. There is a triple king just to the east that will provide some morning shade and more as it grows. I’m 3 miles from the ocean in Carlsbad.

I’m looking for something that 1) Doesn’t get massive, wife likes having some open sky that direction. 20-30 feet in 20 years is fine 2) looks good year around and someone that knows nothing about palms will say “that looks cool, what’s that?”

After a lot of research and confusion, (rhopalostylis are kinda confusing for a novice) I’ve tentatively settled on rhopalostylis cheesemani. My second choice would be rhopalostylis Chatham island. 

Thoughts?

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cbmnz

None of them like full sun when young. They won't die but go light green and outer fronds crisp up.  Baueri/Cheesemani will keep a fairly open crown in full sun, others will go very uptight/shuttlecock which some like the look of, others not so much

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Darold Petty

Yes, as stated, SoCAl open sky all day sun is too much, resulting in bleached color and tight crown profile.  How abourt a large sized Dypsis ?   :)

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Palm Tree Jim

Good advice above.

However, if you do decide to add one to the garden, your choices are solid.

I have sapida and chatham island. 

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joe_OC

Carlsbad has a great climate.  You have a lot of choices.  If your heart is set on a Rhopalostylis, go for it.  Joe in San Marcos has a great selection of larger ones that might work for you.  They definitely benefit being in partial sun to look their best.  GL.

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Matt in OC


How about a picture of the spot? I'd be leery of a lone Rhopy as a full sun fixture, even by the beach. The main thing is it'll be pretty slow, even a 24" box size one. And considering the "looks good year round" wife factor, you both may run out of patience for it to acclimate and get some size. 

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Dusty CBAD

Before and after pic. Poor orange tree stood no chance once I discovered palms. Wife factor is definitely in play, so far she thinks “flamethrowers are cool”, so I have 6 of those and thinks my small hedyscepe is cute. I have a couple small dypsis leptocheilos, kentioposis oliviformis, Pritchardia (not sure what type). Everything is fairly small. I have a bunch of mature Kings and queens that the previous owner planted. 

1B204EB0-5833-407F-970A-899A786AFAD7.jpeg

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Tracy
10 minutes ago, Matt in OC said:

I'd be leery of a lone Rhopy as a full sun fixture, even by the beach

Dusty, hopefully these photos can provide some insight on how Rhopalostylis do in Coastal Carlsbad.  These are planted in southern Carlsbad in a neighborhood just west of Pacific Rim Elementary School and south of Poinsettia Park, about 3/4 mile east up the ridge from the North end of Carlsbad Campgrounds. The first specimen (Rhopalostylis baueri) was shade planted, north side of a two story house, with shade from a couple of Kentia's with overhead ringed trunk when I planted it.  As you can see even today it gets a lot of shade, with a large Bismarkia to it's west blocking late afternoon sun as well (see first two photos).  Second pair of photos are a Rhopalostylis sapida planted as a small 15 gallon before the baueri was planted.  While it now gets decent afternoon shade from the Sabal up the slope from it and a pair of King palms shading it from below the slope, it was in a mid-day sunny spot when planted sometime in the early 2000's.  The sapida was the second one I planted in that spot as the first one died.  The sapida looks better now that it is in more shade than it has ever looked, but you can see how slow it is. 

I also planted a pair of Rhopalostylis sapida's in another garden in South Carlsbad about half a mile south of this garden and a block east.  Those two were planted as 1 gallons in about 1989 or 1990.  Occasionally I will drive by and peak over the fence.  They were planted in the space between my old house and the neighbor getting shade in winter, but full overhead sun during the summer arc of the sun.  While those palms look healthy, they aren't much bigger than the R sapida below after about 30 years, maybe a 2'-3' more of trunk.

An alternative that will be very upright, handle the sun you describe and have an awesome trunk is a Kentiopsis oliviformis.  While not a speedster when small, if you can find a 15 gallon, you will be suitably impressed in 5 years and have a significant palm in 10 years.

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Dusty CBAD

Those both looks awesome, thanks for the insight and pics. I’m ok with slow, my wife doesn’t want something that it going to block out that section of view. Do the oceana or cheesemanii varieties take the sun a little bit better? 

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Dusty CBAD

The king palm is directly east of that spot, so will provide morning shade, not ideal. I have a 5 gallon kentioposis oliviformis in the ground on the adjacent side of the yard, another good spot and it’s getting full sun and chugging along. 

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TomJ

I love Rhopalostylis.  I have four of them.

Another palm to consider but albeit not the most exotic is Dypsis Leptocheilos.

Doesn't take up a lot of space.

Non palm friends always gravitate to it.

Hard to beat a Teddy Bear.  Hardy in Carlsbad.   Easy to source. 

Just an idea.

Edited by TomJ
formating issue
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sipalms
5 hours ago, Dusty CBAD said:

Those both looks awesome, thanks for the insight and pics. I’m ok with slow, my wife doesn’t want something that it going to block out that section of view. Do the oceana or cheesemanii varieties take the sun a little bit better? 

I'm not too familiar with your climate, but the Chatham Island form is the preferred throughout New Zealand in full sun and exposure. It has a much more striking appearance when out in the open, compared to standard mainland sapida or the Auckland variety which get tatty, too upright, and sun damaged when outside of canopy.

Many nurseries suggest Chatham for full sun, and I've seen plenty in the hotter parts of NZ that look fantastic year round. They're also the most cold hardy. All round amazing palm, and slow growing.

Edited by sipalms

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Tracy
6 hours ago, Dusty CBAD said:

I have a 5 gallon kentioposis oliviformis in the ground on the adjacent side of the yard, another good spot and it’s getting full sun and chugging along. 

7 hours ago, Dusty CBAD said:

I have a couple small dypsis leptocheilos, kentioposis oliviformis, Pritchardia (not sure what type).

So Dusty it isn't clear if you have an additional Kentiopsis oliviformis, along with the D leptocheilos and Pritchardia no ID available to plant or if these are already in the ground, so not available for your new spot where you removed the Orange tree.  As Tom suggested the D letptocheilos would work well there and they are pretty fast with the striking ring trunk color against the brown fuzzy crown shafts.  If all the items you identified are already in the ground and you are looking for other alternatives (hence the suggestion of the Rhopalostylis), then I would also consider any number of Dypsis for that spot as well as Cyphophoenix elegans (another New Caledonia palm).  As solitary smaller Dypsis species go, I'm giving my Dypsis saintelucei essentially full sun in Leucadia and it doesn't take up much space, even less than the D leptocheilos and will give you a novel look compared to some of the other palms you have identified.  Last suggestion is a palm in circulation here in So Cal called Ravenea julietiae which I'm told probably isn't the true species, but a great palm all the same.  Deep green long leaflets and an erect rachis, it is almost cycad looking in appearance.  It handles full sun no problem and I believe it is still pretty readily available from a number of sources locally.  A bunch of alternatives with different structure than the Rhopie, but they will all handle the full sun much better.  Plant the Rhopie in shade no matter the species or variant and you will be much happier in the long run!

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Darold Petty

Yes, the Ravenea julietiae is a really beautiful palm.  :greenthumb:   I would plant more than one !!

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Dusty CBAD

Thanks for all the replies. I’m being steered away from a rhopie, at least for that spot. I’ll get one at some point as more shade develops. I started in April and currently have 6 Chambeyronia, 2 dypsis leptocheilos, 1 kentioposis oliviformis, 1 hedyscepe, 1 pritchardia, and one 1 pytchosperma elegans in the ground. I have a dypsis pembana in a 5 gallon pot with another spot already picked out for it. I’ll look into those suggestions.

Here’s a pic of my triple Chambeyronia that I planted, got the idea from a thread on PalmTalk. Hookeri left, regular macro middle, right was sold to me as watermelon, looks similar to a hookeri. 

DAD8EA53-6B5E-4A4E-8A2B-54B45BD7DF76.jpeg

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DoomsDave

@Dusty CBAD nice to meet you!

Hmm

i have a big Rhopie in full sun 20 miles inland in La Habra and it’s gorgeous. 
 

I think a baueri Cheesemanii

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DoomsDave
9 hours ago, Dusty CBAD said:

Before and after pic. Poor orange tree stood no chance once I discovered palms. Wife factor is definitely in play, so far she thinks “flamethrowers are cool”, so I have 6 of those and thinks my small hedyscepe is cute. I have a couple small dypsis leptocheilos, kentioposis oliviformis, Pritchardia (not sure what type). Everything is fairly small. I have a bunch of mature Kings and queens that the previous owner planted. 

1B204EB0-5833-407F-970A-899A786AFAD7.jpeg

C475F509-4E8A-4127-B2FA-A286D8877229.jpeg

I have 30 Chambeyronia in the ground at my place!

Come visit with your family if you want to.

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Sr. Califas

If you haven't visited Mark in Oceanside, you should do so soon.  Not only can you pick up great palms and knowledge from him, but you can see how magnificent palms grow in a climate like yours. 

For that spot maybe you could consider Dypsis ambositrae, Dypsis plumosa, or a species from the baronii complex.  

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Dusty CBAD

Thanks for all the insight everyone. 
 

2 of those 3 Chambeyronia in the triple are from Mark. Fixes my surfboards too

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dalmatiansoap
13 hours ago, Dusty CBAD said:

Before and after pic. Poor orange tree stood no chance once I discovered palms. Wife factor is definitely in play, so far she thinks “flamethrowers are cool”, so I have 6 of those and thinks my small hedyscepe is cute. I have a couple small dypsis leptocheilos, kentioposis oliviformis, Pritchardia (not sure what type). Everything is fairly small. I have a bunch of mature Kings and queens that the previous owner planted. 

1B204EB0-5833-407F-970A-899A786AFAD7.jpeg

C475F509-4E8A-4127-B2FA-A286D8877229.jpeg

I'm betting on my monthly payment if you're still going to have all that lawn in year from now lol

Go Rophies!!

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Dusty CBAD

Haha I bet I will, yard still needs to be usable for 3 young kids. And I still have a few queen palms, Pygmy dates, and giant birds of paradise planted by the previous owner that will meet the orange tree in the green beyond sooner than later

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Tracy
10 hours ago, Dusty CBAD said:

nd I still have a few queen palms, Pygmy dates, and giant birds of paradise planted by the previous owner that will meet the orange tree in the green beyond sooner than later

:greenthumb:

 

11 hours ago, Sr. Califas said:

For that spot maybe you could consider Dypsis ambositrae, Dypsis plumosa, or a species from the baronii complex. 

The Dypsis ambositrae would be beautiful if you have patience, but not pretty slow to get any height.  Since Dusty's wife wants to retain the view to the west, anything  from the clumping baronii might not be the right selection for that spot, as they are much better at screening.

 

14 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

@Dusty CBAD nice to meet you!

Hmm

i have a big Rhopie in full sun 20 miles inland in La Habra and it’s gorgeous. 
 

I think a baueri Cheesemanii

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Come' on Dave, you have an urban jungle up there in LA Habra.  Lots of co-shading so nothing except the very tippy toppy canopy gets anything but full sun.  What about all those big Caryota's you have edited over the last couple of years, didn't they provide some shade or partial shade for this guy at some point?  I would agree that a cheesemanii would be the best of the Rhopie's but even that would look better starting out in shade and growing up into the sun.  I have one here in Leucadia hiding behind my garage so it only gets morning a couple of hours of mid to late morning light and its growing at a decent clip over the last 4 years.

20200405-104A6163.jpg

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Darold Petty

Yah, what Tracy said !!

Here is an open sky, full sun R. baueri v. cheesmanii',   but keep in mind that my daily high temperatures are about 65 F with humidity always greater than 50%.

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IMG_0274.JPG

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DoomsDave
1 hour ago, Tracy said:

:greenthumb:

 

The Dypsis ambositrae would be beautiful if you have patience, but not pretty slow to get any height.  Since Dusty's wife wants to retain the view to the west, anything  from the clumping baronii might not be the right selection for that spot, as they are much better at screening.

 

Come' on Dave, you have an urban jungle up there in LA Habra.  Lots of co-shading so nothing except the very tippy toppy canopy gets anything but full sun.  What about all those big Caryota's you have edited over the last couple of years, didn't they provide some shade or partial shade for this guy at some point?  I would agree that a cheesemanii would be the best of the Rhopie's but even that would look better starting out in shade and growing up into the sun.  I have one here in Leucadia hiding behind my garage so it only gets morning a couple of hours of mid to late morning light and its growing at a decent clip over the last 4 years.

20200405-104A6163.jpg

Good question, but all the palms that could provide shade to the Rhopie gallery are to the north, not the south. Full blistering sun all along. They do get a little piqued looking when it gets and stays hot.

Much much better than R. sapidas.

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Tracy
43 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Here is an open sky, full sun R. baueri v. cheesmanii',   but keep in mind that my daily high temperatures are about 65 F with humidity always greater than 50%.

Whoa Darold, I don't remember any days with a blue sky like that in the City, did the fog roll out for a few minutes :floor:.  We get marine layer down here, but unless you have lived in San Francisco or nearby, you don't really understand what May Grey and June Gloom really are.  I'm guessing that photo was taken in October.  Beautifully grown example of this species!

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Darold Petty

Tracy, I took that image about an hour ago.  Yes, the local weather has been atypical.  Normally we would not see direct sun from June through August.  I usually get 'seasonal affective disorder' here in the 'summer' time. :D

 You are correct, the best weather is often February or October. 

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Darold Petty

Dusty CBAD, you really should check out that Ravenea.

Thanks to all for the kind remarks, now that we have thoroughly hijacked this thread here is a better picture of my cheesemanii. (The funky, stubbed tree limbs are Metrosideros excelsa, a mistake to plant in such a confined area.)

IMG_0277.JPG

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Dusty CBAD

I appreciate the hijacking! Lots of great pictures of rhopalostylis and insight. Thanks again for all the replies!

Seems like the experts say I need a little more shade so... I just purchased a rhopalostylis bauri cheesemanii and I’m going to be putting it out in full sun ha! I almost don’t want to because the one I got is absolutely perfect looking. It’s a huge 15 gallon purchased from Joe at discovery palms. After seeing his cheesemanii up close, it’s beautiful and would be the perfect size and look for that spot. If mine ends up looking half that good I’ll be satisfied. 
 

If anyone is thinking about getting any rhopalostylis, Joe has them covered. They all looked great and they are HUGE! Thanks Joe, you’re the man!

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Matt in OC

That’s a beauty and Joe’s palms are fantastic. Enjoy!

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DoomsDave

Here’s a full Monty of my “purple “ Rhopie baueri. When the old leaves fall off the crown shaft is purple with orange flames kinda where the flower spathe pops out.

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DoomsDave
On 6/17/2020 at 4:45 PM, Darold Petty said:

Yes, the Ravenea julietiae is a really beautiful palm.  :greenthumb:   I would plant more than one !!

I planted two!

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Tyrone
5 hours ago, Dusty CBAD said:

I appreciate the hijacking! Lots of great pictures of rhopalostylis and insight. Thanks again for all the replies!

Seems like the experts say I need a little more shade so... I just purchased a rhopalostylis bauri cheesemanii and I’m going to be putting it out in full sun ha! I almost don’t want to because the one I got is absolutely perfect looking. It’s a huge 15 gallon purchased from Joe at discovery palms. After seeing his cheesemanii up close, it’s beautiful and would be the perfect size and look for that spot. If mine ends up looking half that good I’ll be satisfied. 
 

If anyone is thinking about getting any rhopalostylis, Joe has them covered. They all looked great and they are HUGE! Thanks Joe, you’re the man!

24CED2CF-8E8B-437E-834C-9D255F7D1F5E.jpeg

BD87543B-D561-47A4-9A7C-1C19A4880852.jpeg

Really nice palm there.

If it's come straight out of shade and you are in summer, I would recommend a bit of a shade cloth tent around it until winter, then pull it off in winter and let it acclimatise slowly through next summer. Ive seen these burn ugly in hot summer climates and it would be a shame to lose it so quickly.

Also if you have any sand in the soil you simply can not over water these. They love water, and organics, lots of organics, bark, well rotted manure etc etc. Where they come from gets around 1600mm of rain a year in a good year.

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Dusty CBAD

It was under a tree with no leafs on it with other palms in pots around it. No shade cloth and always been outside in San Marcos, which is a few more miles inland from me. It will definitely be getting more sun than it was but It wasn’t full shade either. I was actually kind of thinking the same thing about waiting until winter to plant it. It’s what has made it a kind of tough decision about these. Some people say full sun in fine, albeit it wont look as good. Others (seems like most) say as much shade as possible. Also if I burn it to a crisp, ya I’ll be bummed, out some money, but now time to try something else. 

I so far I’ve had 2 different experiences planting a part day/filter light palm in full sun- I planted a large 1 gallon hookeri right out in the open. It was the first palm I got and I was excited. It immediately fried one of its fronds and I have no doubt was on its was to full on torching. I removed it and have since replanted it in filtered light and it’s doing great. But I was set on putting a Chambeyronia in that spot, so I bought a decent size 15 gallon Macrocarpa that was outdoor grown. It hasn’t skipped a beat. Full 100% sun. 0% burn. I water it constantly and have mulched well. The fronds are lighter than the nice dark green that shadier ones have. And it opened a green... but it also began pushing up 2 spikes at once. 
Im hoping same thing for this cheesemanii. Larger palm= better chance. I plan to water it a ton, mulch like crazy, and ask it if it’s having a good day constantly

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cbmnz
12 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Really nice palm there.

If it's come straight out of shade and you are in summer, I would recommend a bit of a shade cloth tent around it until winter, then pull it off in winter and let it acclimatise slowly through next summer. Ive seen these burn ugly in hot summer climates and it would be a shame to lose it so quickly.

Also if you have any sand in the soil you simply can not over water these. They love water, and organics, lots of organics, bark, well rotted manure etc etc. Where they come from gets around 1600mm of rain a year in a good year.

Looking at the size of that one compared to the pot! I dont need to panic on repotting my rapidly growing pair of them.

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Jim in Los Altos

I’m inland a few miles and about 50 miles to the south of SF so my Rhopies are all in mostly shade. Some get morning sun and if we’re in a heat wave even morning sun will burn them no matter how much water they get and my climate is not considered to be a hot one by any means. 

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palmdude50
On 6/16/2020 at 10:26 PM, Dusty CBAD said:

This is escalating quickly. I just removed a mature orange tree to make room for my rapidly developing palm addiction. It’s one of my “premier” spots in my yard- I’ll see whatever I plant there every time I step outside. The spot is basically full sun. There is a triple king just to the east that will provide some morning shade and more as it grows. I’m 3 miles from the ocean in Carlsbad.

I’m looking for something that 1) Doesn’t get massive, wife likes having some open sky that direction. 20-30 feet in 20 years is fine 2) looks good year around and someone that knows nothing about palms will say “that looks cool, what’s that?”

After a lot of research and confusion, (rhopalostylis are kinda confusing for a novice) I’ve tentatively settled on rhopalostylis cheesemani. My second choice would be rhopalostylis Chatham island. 

Thoughts?

I like Rhopalostylis baureri(Sp)  or Sapida....the color stays rather dark green without even fertilizing in San Diego.  I hardly fertilize and have clay soil.  They also dont need as much water in my soil.  I  love the palms that can look green no tipping of brown with neglect.  I am always looking for palms that stay small while also being able to handle hot dry conditions.  Rhopalistylis seem to fit those conditions for me. 

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