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JEFF IN MODESTO

Modesto dypsis decipiens ( formerly know as)

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JEFF IN MODESTO

Well, as many of you know, the dypsis decipiens I had growing in my yard for over 20 years was just getting too big.

i tried to sell it with no offers so I gave it away to the first guy who would move it to a happy place.

Gary Gragg offered to move it to his ranch in the Sacramento valley where the climate is similar to Modesto .

Here is a photo some 9 months after transplanting.... it looks to be a success!

C72E221B-B1A7-43EB-95DD-79ADB3597362.png

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redant

Such a beautiful palm. Nice to see it made it.

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JEFF IN MODESTO

Yea me too.

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sonoranfans

Moving and planting a big palm is not cheap, tractor rental may be needed, but he got a great deal!

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akamu

I think a lot of us have followed your palm for years I hope it continues to succeed thanks for updating us on the move

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DoomsDave

Wow, that's great news!

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doubravsky

That is great news.... a special palm indeed. I was sad to hear it might not make it... glad to hear you made it work!

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realarch

A BIG thumbs up Jeff.......that is great news.Thanks for the update.

Tim

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Meangreen94z

That’s great to hear, especially considering how sensitive they are. It seems they accept and flourish in very narrow conditions. Anything outside that they either don’t gain any size or die altogether.
 

I bought two probably 5-10 gallon size, one died right away, and I’ll probably end up selling the other.

Edited by Meangreen94z
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JEFF IN MODESTO

I think the key is to start them on a mound like I did.

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JEFF IN MODESTO

Sure woulda look beautiful outside someone’s mansion!

Just surprised no one wanted it.

crazy how people Willing pay thousands for homely CDIP’s but this this guy was days away from m gardeners chainsaw till Gary said he wanted it.

BTW

Glenn Harris lives a couple of blocks away from me has a couple d. Decipiens just beginning to trunk!

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Meangreen94z

They might do well in South Texas in the Rio Grande Valley. Similar climate to certain parts of California. Zone 10a, summer highs usually around 100-105*F at the highest. Once you get a little inland from the coast(Harlingen, Mcallen, etc.) there is significantly less rain than here in Houston(20ish”vs 50ish”).

Someone posted a picture of one they had been growing in a large container in Florida for 10years from a seedling. It was smaller than the 2-3 year old that I bought from California. Unless I end up somewhere with more ideal conditions its going to stay in the container and likely sold.

Edited by Meangreen94z

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PalmatierMeg

Good news. I loved it in Jeff's photos

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joe_OC

Wow...had no idea you had been growing it for over 20 years!

 

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necturus

The big unanswered question for me is, why do they thrive in Hawaii but not Texas or Florida? I have tried a few in mounds and they all died within a season. The last two seedlings from Floribunda seemed promising and put out a leave or two, but the moment anything perturbed them (e.g. a branch from a neighboring plant grew into the emerging leaf), they gave up the ghost. 

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James B
23 minutes ago, necturus said:

The big unanswered question for me is, why do they thrive in Hawaii but not Texas or Florida? I have tried a few in mounds and they all died within a season. The last two seedlings from Floribunda seemed promising and put out a leave or two, but the moment anything perturbed them (e.g. a branch from a neighboring plant grew into the emerging leaf), they gave up the ghost. 

Great question, perhaps the volcanic soil in Hawaii is a better source of nutrients than Texas or Florida. 

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Tyrone

So glad to see it alive 9 months later. Keep us up to date with pics whenever you can. Its a magnificent specimen.

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doubravsky

I agree on the mound planting. Mine has tillered down quite a bit in the years since I planted. I keep clearing out dirt and mulch around it to keep it happy. Wish I had planted 4-5 inches higher up- 

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sonoranfans

A speciment d. decipiens palm that takes 20 years to get some size is almost impossible to find.  ANy palm that takes that long and is not common would be expensive.  20+ year old Palms like d. decipiens, jubaeas, big copernicias are going to be very expensive.  I glad this person got a great deal, now I just hope this palm goes on to be a landmark out there for 50+ more years, there will be nothing like it!

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Sandy Loam

It looks great! Congratulations to the new owner.

 

There is something about the Modesto, CA climate that this palm liked.  I had one of these for several years it did not grow at all. I bought it as a 5 gallon plant, and it was pricey for that size because dypsis decipiens is pretty rare here in Florida. Mine eventually died and I seem to recall that the roots had some evidence of rot when I dug it up post-mortem.  My point is that even if my dypsis decipiens had lived to be 20 years old like Jeff's in Modesto, California, it would hardly have grown at all.  It just did not like my humid climate. My guess is that it needs excellent drainage and dry air too. I did mound mine up with rocks on the bottom and high-draining soil when I planted it.  It had plenty of drainage, despite our constant heavy summer rains.  It was just unhappy, in general. 

 

Also, I get the impression that plenty of sun is important for this palm.  Mine was in too much shade and unhappy for that reason as well.

 

I don't know what the perfect formula is to end up with a giant dypsis decipiens like Jeff's, but it sure does not seem to be happening anywhere here in Florida. 

 

Even in northern Florida where winter nights can be cold, the chilliness would not be the problem with dypsis decipiens. I had mine for probably 7 years and it never showed any cold damage.  Jeff has previously observed that his dypsis decipiens had the same cold hardiness as a queen palm, syagrus romanzoffiana.  

 

I suspect that Jeff had the perfect formula: the right climate, granular dry soil, and mounded up properly when planted.

 

Anyway, Jeff, I hope that your dypsis decipiens has many good years to come in its new home. Congratulations on a successful transplant.

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sonoranfans

These palms obviously dont want the humidity of florida or houston.  I think it likes central and southern california weather, perhaps enough inland to mostly escape the marine layer.

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Sandy Loam

.... But not Arizona? ... Too harsh there?... Has anyone tried?  (I meant Phoenix, Yuma, Lake Havasu City, Tucson, etc .... obviously not the wintry northern half of the state) 

How about Sicily, Malta, Algarve, Costa del Sol, Tel Aviv, Cyprus, Antalya, Athens, Bosnian Coast, Perth (Australia), Cape Town, Valparaiso or even Santiago, Chile, and many others ... anywhere with hot, dry air, dry soil in summer, and plenty of sun that does not gets colder than -5 degrees celsius at night in winter.   

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GottmitAlex
1 hour ago, Sandy Loam said:

.... But not Arizona? ... Too harsh there?... Has anyone tried?  (I meant Phoenix, Yuma, Lake Havasu City, Tucson, etc .... obviously not the wintry northern half of the state) 

How about Sicily, Malta, Algarve, Costa del Sol, Tel Aviv, Cyprus, Antalya, Athens, Bosnian Coast, Perth (Australia), Cape Town, Valparaiso or even Santiago, Chile, and many others ... anywhere with hot, dry air, dry soil in summer, and plenty of sun that does not gets colder than -5 degrees celsius at night in winter.   

Can this dypsis take -5 C?

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necturus

It's easy to point out that they don't like Florida or the gulf coast but harder to explain why they grow well in Hawaii. Some have pointed out that the southeast is more miserable than Hawaii in the summer in terms of humidity and high and low temperatures. I'll grant that, but the difference is minor compared to the gap between here and California. So what gives?

If you dig on here a bit there's a picture of a fairly nice looking specimen in Georgia. You can see it below. Unfortunately, the author hasn't been active on Palmtalk in a long time, and realistically the palm is probably dead by now, but it obviously survived and dare I say thrived in St. Mary's for quite some time. 

 

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Dypsisdean
1 hour ago, necturus said:

It's easy to point out that they don't like Florida or the gulf coast but harder to explain why they grow well in Hawaii. Some have pointed out that the southeast is more miserable than Hawaii in the summer in terms of humidity and high and low temperatures. I'll grant that, but the difference is minor compared to the gap between here and California. So what gives?

I have always assumed it is due to the difference in night time temps. I have heard that it is not uncommon in summer to have night time temps in Florida in the high 80s - low 90s. Not so in Hawaii.

Also, elevation plays a key role in both day and night time temps in the tropics. As I understand it, you can't get much higher than 25 ft. elevation in most of Florida. Again not so in Hawaii where at 500 feet it is 3-5 degrees cooler, and at 1000 feet 6-10 cooler than sea level.

It is rare for Hawaiian nights to be warmer than the low 80s - and then only in summer and on the coast at sea level.

Same with California - in general much lower night time temps - but for different reasons.

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doubravsky

Not sure about -5 C... mine has seen -3 briefly without any damage. 

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Silas_Sancona
2 hours ago, Dypsisdean said:

I have always assumed it is due to the difference in night time temps. I have heard that it is not uncommon in summer to have night time temps in Florida in the high 80s - low 90s. Not so in Hawaii.

Also, elevation plays a key role in both day and night time temps in the tropics. As I understand it, you can't get much higher than 25 ft. elevation in most of Florida. Again not so in Hawaii where at 500 feet it is 3-5 degrees cooler, and at 1000 feet 6-10 cooler than sea level.

It is rare for Hawaiian nights to be warmer than the low 80s - and then only in summer and on the coast at sea level.

Same with California - in general much lower night time temps - but for different reasons.

I'd bet our 80-95F nights through the summer, combined w/ 110-120F daytime highs are a big reason this great palm would be a huge challenge here in low desert areas of AZ also..  Southeastern part of the state is generally  a bit cooler day/ night in the summer, ( get more rain too ) but also much colder in the winter, nix-ing the idea of trying them there.

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Sandy Loam
On 5/31/2020 at 8:54 PM, doubravsky said:

Not sure about -5 C... mine has seen -3 briefly without any damage. 

Here is what PALMPEDIA says about Dypsis Decipiens on that point:

D. decipiens may be the most cold hardy palm of Madagascar. There are reports of a young plant surviving 22 degrees F/-5.55 C unscathed. It is also tolerant, and probably prefers full hot sun with cool nights. Because it grows in an open well drained soil, in an area with an extended dry season, a constantly wet climate does not appear to be to its liking, except in areas where the soil is extremely well draining. Young plants seem especially susceptible to rotting in a potting mix and climate that does not allow periods of drying.

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Dypsis_decipiens

 

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Jim in Los Altos

I think if they are planted in a climate with temperatures similar to what you’d expect in their habitat, they will grow easily with minimal care. I have one triple and one single. The single is in full shade and is growing faster than my triple in full sun but is ten years younger so only seven feet tall. The triple in these year old photos below was planted as a tiny palm in 2008. I think the largest of the triple will show its first trunk ring by summer’s end. These get a deep watering three times per week so they never dry out. 

ED9F4B5B-ADA2-49FE-9EF4-73DD43374D3A.thumb.jpeg.0ebf0245f9368a32d1a48042601c1895.jpeg

4F04A6B2-466C-4314-9515-707F10924D87.thumb.jpeg.4870bf7fb4d823c3bb8c41c15cd2984e.jpeg

26F8CB4D-99B0-488D-B80F-47090EE5FA0D.thumb.jpeg.eca21a7595415b600478db021645485f.jpeg

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Palm Tree Jim

That's some growth for 12 years. 

Clearly very happy. :greenthumb:

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JEFF IN MODESTO
On 5/28/2020 at 1:24 PM, Meangreen94z said:

They might do well in South Texas in the Rio Grande Valley. Similar climate to certain parts of California. Zone 10a, summer highs usually around 100-105*F at the highest. Once you get a little inland from the coast(Harlingen, Mcallen, etc.) there is significantly less rain than here in Houston(20ish”vs 50ish”).

Someone posted a picture of one they had been growing in a large container in Florida for 10years from a seedling. It was smaller than the 2-3 year old that I bought from California. Unless I end up somewhere with more ideal conditions its going to stay in the container and likely sold.

I’m in zone 9b, our average lowest winter morning of the year is about 27f, though my palm has seen as low as 23f

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JEFF IN MODESTO
On 6/3/2020 at 11:34 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

I think if they are planted in a climate with temperatures similar to what you’d expect in their habitat, they will grow easily with minimal care. I have one triple and one single. The single is in full shade and is growing faster than my triple in full sun but is ten years younger so only seven feet tall. The triple in these year old photos below was planted as a tiny palm in 2008. I think the largest of the triple will show its first trunk ring by summer’s end. These get a deep watering three times per week so they never dry out. 

ED9F4B5B-ADA2-49FE-9EF4-73DD43374D3A.thumb.jpeg.0ebf0245f9368a32d1a48042601c1895.jpeg

4F04A6B2-466C-4314-9515-707F10924D87.thumb.jpeg.4870bf7fb4d823c3bb8c41c15cd2984e.jpeg

26F8CB4D-99B0-488D-B80F-47090EE5FA0D.thumb.jpeg.eca21a7595415b600478db021645485f.jpeg

Get ready they pick up speed at this point.

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GottmitAlex
On 6/3/2020 at 11:34 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

I think if they are planted in a climate with temperatures similar to what you’d expect in their habitat, they will grow easily with minimal care. I have one triple and one single. The single is in full shade and is growing faster than my triple in full sun but is ten years younger so only seven feet tall. The triple in these year old photos below was planted as a tiny palm in 2008. I think the largest of the triple will show its first trunk ring by summer’s end. These get a deep watering three times per week so they never dry out. 

ED9F4B5B-ADA2-49FE-9EF4-73DD43374D3A.thumb.jpeg.0ebf0245f9368a32d1a48042601c1895.jpeg

4F04A6B2-466C-4314-9515-707F10924D87.thumb.jpeg.4870bf7fb4d823c3bb8c41c15cd2984e.jpeg

26F8CB4D-99B0-488D-B80F-47090EE5FA0D.thumb.jpeg.eca21a7595415b600478db021645485f.jpeg

That's a monster!

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lzorrito
On 5/31/2020 at 8:02 PM, Sandy Loam said:

.... But not Arizona? ... Too harsh there?... Has anyone tried?  (I meant Phoenix, Yuma, Lake Havasu City, Tucson, etc .... obviously not the wintry northern half of the state) 

How about Sicily, Malta, Algarve, Costa del Sol, Tel Aviv, Cyprus, Antalya, Athens, Bosnian Coast, Perth (Australia), Cape Town, Valparaiso or even Santiago, Chile, and many others ... anywhere with hot, dry air, dry soil in summer, and plenty of sun that does not gets colder than -5 degrees celsius at night in winter.   

I haven't tried this one here in the Algarve yet, where the climate is more than perfect for many of the Dypsis. Where I live, it rarely reaches 44 F / 7 C in winter, and for a very short time. As soon as I get one ... we'll see.

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Tracy
On 6/3/2020 at 11:34 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

The single is in full shade and is growing faster than my triple in full sun but is ten years younger so only seven feet tall.

Jim, do you think that the number of trunks correlates to a slowing down relative to the solitary just due to competition?  I have two plantings, with a double which is younger but larger than my original plant, but the original has split twice, so now has 4 growth points.  Both receive west sun and if anything, the smaller one gets more hours of direct sun due to less adjacent competition.  I'm approaching a decade in the ground this autumn on the small one that has split so many times.  I think you can find at least 3 of the growth points by looking for the new red spears in the one closeup photo below.

20200723-BH3I0629.jpg

20200723-BH3I0630.jpg

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Jim in Los Altos
1 hour ago, Tracy said:

Jim, do you think that the number of trunks correlates to a slowing down relative to the solitary just due to competition?  I have two plantings, with a double which is younger but larger than my original plant, but the original has split twice, so now has 4 growth points.  Both receive west sun and if anything, the smaller one gets more hours of direct sun due to less adjacent competition.  I'm approaching a decade in the ground this autumn on the small one that has split so many times.  I think you can find at least 3 of the growth points by looking for the new red spears in the one closeup photo below.

Growth on mine is fastest during the warmest months when daytime temps are always above 80°F. 

20200723-BH3I0629.jpg

20200723-BH3I0630.jpg

Not sure, Tracy. At one point, a couple of years ago, I cut down the two smaller stems and just left the biggest. It nearly totally stopped growing. The two offsets revived and restored themselves quickly and then the biggest resumed growth. It’s almost as if the palm was sulking without its smaller “friends.” It’s going to stay a triple. My single is in full shade and it’s growing faster than the full sun triple. The leaves are stretched, being much larger than the triple’s were at that age. You have to be so patient with these palms but, once trunk diameter gets close to mature size, growth upwards picks up dramatically. 

Fastest growth is in summer when daytime temps are always above 80°F. 

Edited by Jim in Los Altos
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JEFF IN MODESTO
On 5/31/2020 at 1:17 PM, GottmitAlex said:

Can this dypsis take -5 C?

The coldest my palm experienced was maybe 23f

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Tracy
8 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Not sure, Tracy. At one point, a couple of years ago, I cut down the two smaller stems and just left the biggest. It nearly totally stopped growing. The two offsets revived and restored themselves quickly and then the biggest resumed growth. It’s almost as if the palm was sulking without its smaller “friends.” It’s going to stay a triple. My single is in full shade and it’s growing faster than the full sun triple. The leaves are stretched, being much larger than the triple’s were at that age. You have to be so patient with these palms but, once trunk diameter gets close to mature size, growth upwards picks up dramatically. 

Fastest growth is in summer when daytime temps are always above 80°F. 

The other one I have that only has 2 trunks has been much faster and planted later which is why I asked.  The one I posted above was planted in 2010 and the first photo is the plant in late 2013, 3 years after planting from a 3 gallon pot size (roots coming out the bottom).  2nd photo is the other plant in 2013 in a citrus pot.  Last two photos are what that citrus pot looks like today.  It too split, and is now 2 trunks as you can see, but the slower one was 2 trunks in 2013 and 4 trunks today.  It was based on my perhaps anecdotal experience that I asked if you thought your multi stemmed was slower because it was a triple.

20131026-IMG_7567.jpg

20130401-IMG_3807.jpg

20200723-BH3I0645.jpg

20200723-BH3I0646.jpg

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