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Kiplin

Identify this palm

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Kiplin

Any idea what this is? It's being sold in central fla as a coconut lookalike that doesn't freeze, although I've never seen a coconut with a crownshaft like this..

20200527_102007.jpg

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The Gerg

Its an Archontopheonix.....maybe Alexandrae beatrice variety with the stepped trunk.

Not 100% sure on the species, but definitely Archontopheonix.

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kinzyjr
12 minutes ago, Kiplin said:

Any idea what this is? It's being sold in central fla as a coconut lookalike that doesn't freeze, although I've never seen a coconut with a crownshaft like this..

Welcome to the forums! 

If I had to place my bets, I'd say either Archontophoenix cunninghamiana or Archontophoenix alexandrae (possibly var. Beatrice).  Look under the leaflets and see if they have a silvery color.  If they do, that often means alexandrae. 

Which nursery is this?  When all else fails, ask the nursery owner what it is.  If they are reputable, they'll be able to tell you.  That said, the sales pitch that this is a "coconut lookalike that doesn't freeze" doesn't inspire confidence.  Archontophoenix are only hardy to mid-20s in most cases.

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Kiplin

Thanks for your replies! We are completing a massive pool project so we want some awesome palms to go with it. Landscaper sent over that pic as a possibility but he didn't know a lot about it. I don't trust a lot of their opinions.. everyone here, though, is so knowledgeable. I've learned a ton over the last month or so that I've been roaming!

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kinzyjr
3 minutes ago, Kiplin said:

Thanks for your replies! We are completing a massive pool project so we want some awesome palms to go with it. Landscaper sent over that pic as a possibility but he didn't know a lot about it. I don't trust a lot of their opinions.. everyone here, though, is so knowledgeable. I've learned a ton over the last month or so that I've been roaming!

If you have a choice between Archontophoenix alexandrae and Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, I would advise the latter for their extra degree or two of cold hardiness.  To my eye alexandrae has the better look, but they tend to be a little hit and miss as far as cold hardiness below 28F.  That said, we have plenty that have seen 26F multiple times and are alive to tell the tale + setting seed here in town.

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Kiplin

Agreed! Cunninghamiana seems to be the way to go. The current lineup though is:

Pandanus Utilis
Chambeyronia Macrocarpa
Kentiopsis Oliviformis
Areca Vestiaria
Strelitzia Reginae
Dypsis floriencii
Pseudophoenix sargentii
Cyrtostachys renda (Will be potted)
 
I did just get a beautiful green Malayan coconut that I'll be working hard to protect... It's always been my dream to have a coconut palm so I've been following a lot of what Walt has said about protection and such. Hopefully things will go well. I've got a nice protected spot for it so we will see.
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RedRabbit
5 minutes ago, Kiplin said:

Agreed! Cunninghamiana seems to be the way to go. The current lineup though is:

Pandanus Utilis
Chambeyronia Macrocarpa
Kentiopsis Oliviformis
Areca Vestiaria
Strelitzia Reginae
Dypsis floriencii
Pseudophoenix sargentii
Cyrtostachys renda (Will be potted)
 
I did just get a beautiful green Malayan coconut that I'll be working hard to protect... It's always been my dream to have a coconut palm so I've been following a lot of what Walt has said about protection and such. Hopefully things will go well. I've got a nice protected spot for it so we will see.

Welcome aboard.  :)

That looks like a good list of palms! Out of those I particularly like Chambeyronia macrocarpa, I’d definitely get another one given the opportunity. Areca vestiaria, on the other hand, might be too much of a zone push for Winter Garden. 

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Kiplin

Thanks. I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to protect the Areca vestiaria, just like the coconut. It's such a beauty, I've decided to give it a shot.

The flamethrowers... I've got plans for 6 of them. Lol. Definitely seems to be an amazing specimen. Can't wait to get them in.

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redant
8 hours ago, Kiplin said:

Agreed! Cunninghamiana seems to be the way to go. The current lineup though is:

Pandanus Utilis
Chambeyronia Macrocarpa
Kentiopsis Oliviformis
Areca Vestiaria
Strelitzia Reginaei
Pseudophoenix sargentii
Cyrtostachys renda (Will be potted)
 
I did just get a beautiful green Malayan coconut that I'll be working hard to protect... It's always been my dream to have a coconut palm so I've been following a lot of what Walt has said about protection and such. Hopefully things will go well. I've got a nice protected spot for it so we will see.

I zone push too but from seeing a google street view of the area and seeing where you are on the map  it's unlikely anything on that list will go long term. IDK how close to the lake you are but the closer the better, big lake offers some good micro climate. Good luck on the tropical paradise, just try to not spend to much.

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PalmatierMeg

Welcome to PalmTalk. Coconuts are not crownshafted palms nor are coconut-lookalikes Beccariophoenix and ubiquitous queen palms. Crownshafts are the smooth, green tubular sheath of leaf bases like those on your Archos. 

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Ben in Norcal

It's almost surely cunninghamiana.  It's easy to tell - look for ramenta on the undersides of leaves.  If they are there, it's a cunninghamiana.

There are downsides to cunninghamiana.  It's less sun and wind tolerant than other Archontophoenix species (purpurea excepted on the sun tolerance front.)  I have lots of cunninghamiana but don't plant them anymore - maxima, tuckerii, myolensis, and alexandre are much more attractive plants if you get any wind or dry heat.

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8B palms

Which nursery are you getting your palms from?

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redant
1 hour ago, Ben in Norcal said:

It's almost surely cunninghamiana.  It's easy to tell - look for ramenta on the undersides of leaves.  If they are there, it's a cunninghamiana.

There are downsides to cunninghamiana.  It's less sun and wind tolerant than other Archontophoenix species (purpurea excepted on the sun tolerance front.)  I have lots of cunninghamiana but don't plant them anymore - maxima, tuckerii, myolensis, and alexandre are much more attractive plants if you get any wind or dry heat.

tuckeri is one of the nicest for me,  purpurea does not like FL for some reason, I have 2 that have done well but they are problem prone in FL and don't show much purple. None of them are long term in that part of FL

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Kiplin
5 hours ago, redant said:

I zone push too but from seeing a google street view of the area and seeing where you are on the map  it's unlikely anything on that list will go long term. IDK how close to the lake you are but the closer the better, big lake offers some good micro climate. Good luck on the tropical paradise, just try to not spend to much.

I know I am being a little aggressive with the zone pushing, but over the last 15 years we only dropped into the 20s twice, and never below 27.  These palms have all shown some reasonable hardiness down to 25 or 26, and I am going all organic on the fert so that may help by a degree or two.  I've had 75 tons of boulder rock come in which these palms are going to be placed pretty close to, so maybe the heat that those rocks can soak in during the day will help protect the palms during the night.  I'm within 1/4 mile of 2 lakes (kind of sandwiched in the middle), not sure if that will help or not.  We have a little higher elevation here than most areas, about 115ft so maybe that will help as well.  I will be able to protect them, too, if we get a really bad front coming through.  So, yeah, long-term being 15+ years, who really knows with global warming and everything.  Maybe or maybe not.  I'm a bit of a risk taker though so if I lose a palm here or there, I know that I will be enjoying it while it's around.

 

2 hours ago, 8B palms said:

Which nursery are you getting your palms from?

We are headed down to Miami tomorrow to visit Action Theory nursery down there.  They have a ton of these palms so we are excited to check it out.  It seems like everything is grown in south FL and brought up to us, so by cutting out the middle man, we hope to save some money. And it's nice to be able to select the exact palm out of the bunch.

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Kiplin
3 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

It's almost surely cunninghamiana.  It's easy to tell - look for ramenta on the undersides of leaves.  If they are there, it's a cunninghamiana.

There are downsides to cunninghamiana.  It's less sun and wind tolerant than other Archontophoenix species (purpurea excepted on the sun tolerance front.)  I have lots of cunninghamiana but don't plant them anymore - maxima, tuckerii, myolensis, and alexandre are much more attractive plants if you get any wind or dry heat.

Thanks for that insight. Cunninghamiana is nice because of the extra cold hardiness, but we do get a ton of sun, although usually with a ton of humidity.  I've been looking into the Maxima but I'm not sure if it is resistant enough to the cold.  I have to say that without you guys, this would be an impossible task.... I would end up with all Queen palms and little to no variety.

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Ben in Norcal
39 minutes ago, Kiplin said:

Thanks for that insight. Cunninghamiana is nice because of the extra cold hardiness, but we do get a ton of sun, although usually with a ton of humidity.  I've been looking into the Maxima but I'm not sure if it is resistant enough to the cold.  I have to say that without you guys, this would be an impossible task.... I would end up with all Queen palms and little to no variety.

I have noticed no hardiness difference amongst the species here, but I haven't been below 30 in the 15 years I have lived here.  Fingers crossed!

Maxima is a much more appealing palm in my view, and there's not more than a degree between the species.  Cunninghamiana are a total rainforest palm and really look their best in wet, shade, and with a lot of wind protection.

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Jim in Los Altos

Your temperature averages would suggest that you can be growing many types of palms. Archontophoenix are easy growers in most respects. They enjoy lots if water year round. The chart doesn’t show the occasional freezing temperatures so keep in mind anytime there’s frost, leaves on Archontophoenix are likely to burn some when they are growing in open exposed areas. If you plant near your pool, that will offer a few degrees of protection. 

DB6C349B-ECA1-4CEE-9AEF-AE50F98567AD.thumb.png.117086a6688bfae5d4b5a5f29e644c07.png 

Edited by Jim in Los Altos

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redant
6 hours ago, Kiplin said:

I know I am being a little aggressive with the zone pushing, but over the last 15 years we only dropped into the 20s twice, and never below 27.  These palms have all shown some reasonable hardiness down to 25 or 26, and I am going all organic on the fert so that may help by a degree or two.  I've had 75 tons of boulder rock come in which these palms are going to be placed pretty close to, so maybe the heat that those rocks can soak in during the day will help protect the palms during the night.  I'm within 1/4 mile of 2 lakes (kind of sandwiched in the middle), not sure if that will help or not.  We have a little higher elevation here than most areas, about 115ft so maybe that will help as well.  I will be able to protect them, too, if we get a really bad front coming through.  So, yeah, long-term being 15+ years, who really knows with global warming and everything.  Maybe or maybe not.  I'm a bit of a risk taker though so if I lose a palm here or there, I know that I will be enjoying it while it's around.

 

We are headed down to Miami tomorrow to visit Action Theory nursery down there.  They have a ton of these palms so we are excited to check it out.  It seems like everything is grown in south FL and brought up to us, so by cutting out the middle man, we hope to save some money. And it's nice to be able to select the exact palm out of the bunch.

If you feel like stopping by Jupiter I have all the king seedlings in the world you are free to take as well as many other types of palm, teddies, cabada, sunshine, lots of stuff you can attempt to kill for free.  

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Kiplin
10 hours ago, redant said:

If you feel like stopping by Jupiter I have all the king seedlings in the world you are free to take as well as many other types of palm, teddies, cabada, sunshine, lots of stuff you can attempt to kill for free.  

A very kind offer! But I've been mandated not to create a jungle or have a bunch of pots around... so sadly, seedlings/starters are out of the question for me.  On the bright side, I did get her up to 13 palms from 5. :D

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kinzyjr
37 minutes ago, Kiplin said:

A very kind offer! But I've been mandated not to create a jungle or have a bunch of pots around... so sadly, seedlings/starters are out of the question for me.  On the bright side, I did get her up to 13 palms from 5. :D

Next step: Well honey, you can't stop at 13... it's unlucky!  Let's round up to 15 just to be safe!

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Kiplin
2 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Next step: Well honey, you can't stop at 13... it's unlucky!  Let's round up to 15 just to be safe!

:lol::lol::lol:

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