Let's See Your Treeferns...

[palmsOrl]

Well, I bought another tree fern species on eBay today!  Cyathea (Alsophila) australis, otherwise known as "rough tree fern", is native to areas of Eastern Australia, Norfolk Island and Tasmania. 

According to Wikipedia, specimens growing in their native range in Southern Australia often lose all their leaves by the end of winter.  This is also the case with the South African native tree fern species Cyathea dregei, which is reputedly the most cold hardy tree fern species in the world.

As it is in a one gallon pot, this specimen is a bit larger than the most recent three I purchased and fortunately Ollie's shas some identical green ceramic pots to the ones I have been selecting, just in a slightly larger size to accommodate this plant for a while.

This brings my collection up to six species total.  The next two I would like to get are Dicksonia antarctica and Cibotium glaucum.  Then after that Cyathea brownii and Oceanopteris gibba.  Then, I think 10 species will be enough!

[jimmyt]

@palmsOrl Nice collection you have going.   Do you have any risk of winter freezes?  I know some species can handle some frost but not too much.  Have you been able to find a Cyathea dregei?  It is really too hot and dry, then cold here for me to grow these tree ferns.  I have tried......  Good luck!  

[palmsOrl]

Thank you Jimmy.  Historically, yes, the northern suburbs of Orlando and the City of Orlando itself has been subject to annual (on average freezes).  This has changed in the past 15-20 years, however, so that Orlando and the inner suburbs are only averaging a freeze about every few years.  This is definitely due to the ever-increasing urban heat island effect, climate change could (possibly?) be playing a role and Eric Schmidt has noted that, even historically, the Orlando area is a warm spot relative to surrounding areas.

Considering the above, combined with the fact that any tree ferns planted here have to be planted in the shade, which also gives them some protection from frost and radiational freezes (which most of ours are) and the fact that many tree fern species tolerate light freezes with varying degrees of damage (hard freezes seldom occur these days here), I am not too concerned in general with the potential of losing my tree ferns to freezes in the future.  Since I do not currently have a yard, I intend to keep each tree fern in a pot for as long as possible and this will also ensure I can protect more sensitive species when I need to.

I think my general procedure with respect to cold may be to just bring the tree ferns inside if the forecast low temperature is supposed to go below 32F.  I will probably leave the more cold hardy species, like Dicksonia antarctica (am not yet growing this one) out unless the forecast calls for a low temperature below 27F.

The heat here might indeed prove more of a concern for the well-being of my tree ferns!  I will try to provide shade and mist as well as never let the soil dry out, especially during warm to hot weather, though the soil of tree ferns should never dry out regardless.

Jimmy, I have not seen live plants of Cyathea dregei for sale online, but I have not done an extensive online search for this species specifically.

[palmsOrl]

Since I was on a repotting spree last night and since I repotted this, my first tree fern (Cyathea cooperi) just before I was giving the soil mix any careful consideration (meaning I stuck it into straight potting soil) I went ahead and repotted it into my special tree fern potting mix last night.  I did this despite the fact that it has been growing extremely well, since I am concerned about it being in too heavy a mix when it cools down in November and having it rot over winter.  I am pretty confident I will not have any rot issues with my tree ferns using the 15% sand, 15% Vermiculite, 20% potting soil and 50% peat moss mix, as long as I repot them before the soil mix gets "old" and breaks down.

I didn't merely take the intact root ball, slip it into the pot and fill in around it with the new mix.  I worked loose most of the soil within the rootball and mixed the new soil in so that almost the entire volume of the pot is filled with the new mix.  I then watered very heavily and so far so good.

[palmsOrl]

On 6/26/2020 at 11:18 AM, jimmyt said:

@palmsOrl Nice collection you have going.   Do you have any risk of winter freezes?  I know some species can handle some frost but not too much.  Have you been able to find a Cyathea dregei?  It is really too hot and dry, then cold here for me to grow these tree ferns.  I have tried......  Good luck!  

The American Fern Society does have Cyathea dregei listed on its spore inventory list, so if you want to try your hand at growing from spore, there you go.

https://www.amerfernsoc.org/spore-inventory

Myself, I am still intimidated by the idea of growing from spore, though I may give it a shot at some point.  There are lots of auctions for spore on eBay as well.

[jimmyt]

Man,  growing ferns from spores is tough!  I have tried before.   I think I will pass on that!  

[palmsOrl]

Good to know Jimmy!  That is what I would have suspected and then when I briefly reviewed the technique involved, I stongly embraced that conclusion.  

If it happens I have a lot of success growing small plants to large plants, then maybe I will be emboldened to try spore of rarer species one would only find available as spore.  

I might buy spore of Cyathea arborea since photos of this species and its beauty inspired me to start growing them to begin with.  Then I saw photos of Cyathea intermedia, imo even more beautiful, in its mature form in habitat and I already have one of these, so...

[jimmyt]

They are all pretty cool plants!

[palmsOrl]

My Alsophila (Cyathea) australis arrived in the mail today in good condition.  Please see the attached photos.

I am excited because, although I am far from a tree fern expert at this point, I believe I did actually get the real deal.  Apparently, most "Alsophila australis" on the market, at least here in the states, are actually the similar and common species Cyathea cooperi.  Even the gentleman at the Fern Factory stated that they do not have any for sale and that the true Alsophila australis is really difficult to find.

I have seen a fair number of Cyathea cooperi and I am currently growing one and this new plant, while similar in appearance, looks distinctly different than Cyathea cooperi of a similar size to my eye at least.

First, my Alsophila australis looks much lighter green than mine and other Cyathea cooperi I have seen.  While interspecies variability or even a difference in health or growing conditions could account for this color difference, it could also suggest the two plants are indeed different species.

Also, the leaflet spacing looks different between my C. cooperi and my supposed C. australis.  Please see the following comparison.

My Cyathea cooperi:

My Alsophila australis:

The new plant also just overall strikes me as similar but different in a way I can't put my finger on.  What does everyone else think?  Is this possibly an australis or most likely yet another cooperi?

Lastly, I need to remember to take a photo or two of the substrate the new tree fern is in and maybe a sample, so that I can figure out what all it contains and recreate the same mix the expert growers use.  I notice that the mix looks the same in all of the small plants I have ordered and contains materials that I have not added to my potting mix for these.  Hopefully I can figure out what these additional components are.

[palmsOrl]

After a little SNAFU with the USPS, I was able to procure my Cyathea felina this afternoon.  Apparently, it was marked as "Return to Sender" for insufficient address yesterday as it was out to be delivered.  Fortunately, I had been tracking he parcel's progress online and to make a long story short, this was an error and with a phone call last night USPS was able to intercept the package and hold it at the local Post Office before it was sent back to the vendor.

The plant looks a little bedraggled after more than four days in a box, but still healthy and ready to get potted up tonight.  Cyathea felina seems to be one of the less commonly encountered species in cultivation as far as live plants go (there are many species for which I have seen spore available).

[palmsOrl]

I finished potting my most recent additions to my tree fern collection last night.

Alsophila australis:

Cyathea Felina:

Cyathea cooperi:

Left to right: Cyathea felina, Cyathea medullaris, Cyathea tomentosissima and Cyathea intermedia

[necturus]

The difference between Cyathea australis and cooperi is supposedly in the hair color on the stipes. The former is brown only, whereas the latter has brown and white. 

[palmsOrl]

Thank you necturus.  Well this (I assume) clear difference should make the new plant easily identifiable, assuming these traits are always present and also that they manifest themselves on juvenile plants.  

I will check it out and post the result.  If so, the one for sale on eBay from the same vendor as mine should be the real deal, Alsophila australis.

[palmsOrl]

7 hours ago, necturus said:

The difference between Cyathea australis and cooperi is supposedly in the hair color on the stipes. The former is brown only, whereas the latter has brown and white. 

I can confirm my eBay plant is definitely Alsophila australis based on comparing the stipe color on my Alsophila australis and Cyathea cooperi.  I will post photos to prove this later once I take the one inside and get a clear photo.

That seller still has at least one Alsophila australis listed on eBay if you are still wanting to get a true one.

[palmsOrl]

First, I thought a diagram showing where the stipe (like the petiole in palms) are located would be helpful.

https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/image_maps/22-fern-structure

The below-linked article explains how to tell the difference between Alsophila australis and Cyathea cooperi, including mentioning the difference seen in the hairs along the stipe, like necturus was explaining.

https://www.fancyfrondsnursery.com/ferns/australian-tree-fern-or-scaly-tree-fern-cyathea-sphaeropteris-cooperi

Here is a photo of my Cyathea cooperi, clearly showing both short brown hairs and longer white hairs along the stipe.

This next photo shows a close-up of the stipe of my Alsophila australis showing the presence of only shiny brown hairs.

 

[palmsOrl]

Note, do not let the reflection of the flash fool you in that last photo.  Those hairs on the Alsophila australis are all shiny brown even though the flash does give some of them a whitish appearance.  Moreover, the C. cooperi definitely has both short brown hairs and long white hairs.

Perhaps photos in better natural lighting sans the flash would have been better.

[palmsOrl]

I did just post on the dedicated bromeliads thread about this area of the garden that I just completed with bromeliads, calathea and this small Australian tree fern (Cyathea cooperi). 

In the past almost 3 weeks it has gone from looking like it might wither up and die to pushing new growth and appearing like it will survive and possibly even eventually become the anchor plant for this whole small portion of the garden.

This is the tree fern as of tonight and I will post any further updates on this (and all of my other tree ferns) in this thread.

[palmsOrl]

After yet another two day stretch of hot, dry weather with low afternoon humidity (bottoming out as least as low as 40% each afternoon) and hot all-day sun, I decided to give my whole tree fern collection a few day's vacation from the unfavorable conditions outside.  So, I brought each inside and positioned the plants near a window and will mist each plant four times per day.

The Alsophila australis was actually looking a tad droopy today and the others just didn't have that healthy glow and perkiness that they did during our recent week of lowland, windward Hawaii weather.  The exception being the cooperi, which looks fantastic, but I still figured it would appreciate lows of 72F and highs of 75F for three days, along with the rest of them.

[Steve Mac]

Michael,  This is from the upstairs bedroom window. The cooperi in the background and either a robusta or a brownii  (I can't tell) in the foreground.

The one photobombing in from the left is 12' high antarctica. The brownii/robusta is over 20', the cooperi about 15' I think.

 

How can I tell a brownii from a robusta?

[tim_brissy_13]

On 7/14/2020 at 4:29 PM, gtsteve said:

Michael,  This is from the upstairs bedroom window. The cooperi in the background and either a robusta or a brownii  (I can't tell) in the foreground.

The one photobombing in from the left is 12' high antarctica. The brownii/robusta is over 20', the cooperi about 15' I think.

 

How can I tell a brownii from a robusta?

From my experience that’s a brownii. Robusta has bright green stipes, whereas brownii’s are hairier and darker like yours. 

[palmsOrl]

Thank you for sharing gtsteve, those are stunning specimens!  What a view!

[palmsOrl]

Since it has been basically three months since my journey with tree ferns began, here is an update on my collection.

They are all still alive and in decent health despite several spells of hot, dry weather that has led to low daytime humidity and obvious stress on the plants.  I also decided that the chosen substrate had a tendency to compact and stay a bit on the wet side, so I recently used a plastic chopstick to decompress the soil, after which I removed the top 1.5" of soil and replaced it with a lighter mix including coarse Vermiculite, leaf matter and less sand.  This led to some trauma to the rootsystems, indicated by some withered fronds and slightly wilted plants.

In the case of Cyathea intermedia, it looked so bad on the hot, dry afternoon after I decompressed the roots, I had to take it inside and fashion a makeshift humidity tent for it.  After one day in the tent, it had perked up and was back outside.

I also recently started misting the tree ferns with only purified water.  All of these factors combined with greatly increased humidity the past few days as a result of a return to a more wet weather pattern and the plants are looking decent to quite healthy.

All-in-all, I have been quite impressed by the resilience of young tree ferns, as many other "delicate" plants I have attempted/grown have declined rapidly at the first sign of less than optimal conditions.  Fortunately, unlike Tillandsia for instance, tree ferns seem to give plenty of warning that they are not happy before keeling over (as long as you are keeping a close eye on them).  The exception to this is allowing the root system to dry out.  This will kill a tree fern in hours.  A fact that I learned years ago in earlier attempts to grow Cyathea cooperi.

[palmsOrl]

My Cyathea cooperi enjoying a muggy night tonight.

Alsophila australis:

Cyathea intermedia:

Cyathea tomentosissima:

Cyathea felina:

Cyathea medullaris:

 

[palmsOrl]

I'll tell you, as mentioned, tree ferns, even young specimens, really hang on through adversity.  I think three of mine are struggling with crown rot issues now, but unlike a 12" palm which would just up and die real quick, the little tree ferns sulk but hang in there.  I treated the affected ones with hydrogen peroxide tonight, pouring a copious amount of undiluted 3% right on the crowns.  After 1/2 hour of fizzing, the visible crown tissue was a lot more healthy tissue and less brown, unidentified matter.  I plan to treat the affected plants twice daily for one week and then prophylactically once per day for two weeks after that.

I almost concocted an aqueous antibiotic solution the other night from some left over oral antibiotic tablets I had lying around, but some research indicated that the particular antibiotic in question was active against anaerobic bacteria only and I am assuming the bacteria affecting my tree ferns (and that which affects plants in general) tends to be aerobic.

Now I have a fourth tool in my arsenal for bacteria, H2O2 (in addition to liquid kelp, malathion and propaconazole).  The malathion WIPES OUT those spider mites like nothing I have ever used before has and I have lost a lot of plants to the little buggers.

[palmsOrl]

After almost two months without adding a new tree fern to my little potted cloud forest, I decided it was time to add a few more.  Besides, I love a little online retail therapy.

Firstly, I finally found an Oceanopteris gibba (or Blechnum gibbum) for sale (had proven surprisingly difficult to locate a grower that actually had it in stock).  This will be my second attempt with this species.  I found a 12" plant at a greenhouse in PA while living there but it only lasted for a few months inside as the winter air was too dry.  This species is easily my favorite fern, though it is a possible tie with Cyathea intermedia, which is, in my opinion, the most beautiful arborescent plant on Earth.  

Oceanopteris gibba, a native of the rainforests of Fiji and some adjacent islands, should by a straightforward grow here, warm and wet/humid.  Most of my other plants are tropical rainforest denizens, so this adorable tree fern will be right at home.

Oceanopteris gibba:

Photo Credit: rarepalmseeds.com

My plant, which should arrive by Monday, will look like this specimen:

 

 

[palmsOrl]

I also decided it was time to finally order a Hawaiian tree fern, Cibotium glaucum or "Hapu" (the most commonly grown Hawaiian native tree fern species).  I had seen live bulbs of this plant for sale in the airports in Hawaii (those Hawaiian "plants in a bag" they sell as souvenirs) many years ago and have always regretted not buying one while there.  Far from the most beautiful tree fern in my opinion, large specimens are still ruggedly lovely reminders that one is in the Hawaiian cloud forest.  My plant will look like this:

 

 

[palmsOrl]

Last but not least, I stumbled across this interesting species for sale and decided to try growing a tree fern from a bulb. 

The species is Cibotium barometz, a small tree fern species native to parts of Southern China and Indonesia.  This species reminds me VERY much of our Florida native tree fern, Ctenitis sloanei.

Here is an example of the species (The URL automatically embedded twice, adding the photo twice and I could not figure out how to delete the extra photo).

What I should receive:

Photo Credit:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/612630355530391044/

[palmsOrl]

My silver lady (Oceanopteris gibba) tree fern arrived Saturday and I managed to get it repotted last night.  The vendor did an excellent job with the shipping and the plant arrived in great shape.  One thing I will say though is that the soil was basically bone dry when the plant arrived and I think another day in the mail and the plant would have had substantial damage.  It was right at the dehydration tipping point.  I'm sure they are shipped just barely moist to save on shipping costs, but this is one plant I would ship out with well-moistened soil.

The substrate I am now mixing for tree ferns is: 35% coarse Vermiculite, 35% peat moss/potting soil mix (75% peat/25% soil), 10% the dense gritty muck I used as my mix previously lol and 20% leaf mold/hummus/dead leaves/bits of forest floor detritus.

This plant is if course not staying inside but is a cold sensitive tropical species so I will bring it in if the low is supposed to be much below 40F.  It is certainly enjoying the extremely high humidity and warmth we are currently experiencing.

Also, this particular specimen appears to have three growing points so it should make for an interesting multi-trunked tree fern after a few years.

[palmsOrl]

My Hawaiian tree fern (Cibotium glaucum) arrived yesterday and it already seems to be happy with the hot, muggy weather.  This one will get repotted tonight.

-Michael

[palmsOrl]

Over the past couple weeks, I have had a bit of a crisis with my smaller tree ferns and my slightly larger C. australis.  I am not sure whether it is the excessive heat and nighttime lows near 80F, the fairly low daytime humidity on rainless days, the compacted, wet substrate, the water quality, the fungicide treatments, the hydrogen peroxide treatments, a bacterial and/or fungal affliction, or some combination of the aforementioned factors, but in two weeks or so, my Cyathea australis, Cyathea intermedia, Cyathea medullaris, Cyathea tomentosissima and Cyathea felina have started looking droopy and loosing fronds.  In addition, new growth has all but ceased and what has emerged is extremely stunted and in some cases, necrotic.

Thus, in the past week, I have setup makeshift terrariums inside near a window for the plants, to eliminate heat and low humidity stress.  In addition, I have repotted them all into a very airy yet rich, organic substrate mix with leaf mold, peat moss and coarse Vermiculite.  Additionally, I am spraying the plants every day with hydrogen peroxide both to prevent mold on the surface of the soil and to debride dead, diseased tissue from the growing point, fronds and hopefully the roots.  I open each terrarium for about an hour once per day, first spaying with peroxide and then allowing the leaves to dry some, before resealing the containers.

 

I think that, given a month or two of diligent treatment, most of my plants stand a chance of making a slow recovery.  The one exception is my Cyathea tomentosissima (see below), which I think is a goner, but will be replaced in a few days if I determine for sure it has died.

I even brought inside my Cyathea cooperi and though it was looking okay outdoors, the plant is already looking better and it is not even in a terrarium like the rest.  I measured the humidity in my bedroom and it is running 40-45%, with temperatures 73-77F, so the humidity is not exactly ideal, but worth the trade-off for getting out of the heat for the C. cooperi. 

The rest if my ailing tree ferns wilted within an hour in the same conditions, so they need to be in the 100% humidity of the terrariums until they can regenerate a healthy root system in the new improved soil mix.

My new Oceanopteris gibba and Cibotium glaucum are enjoying the conditions outside, as they are both from warm to hot, humid rainforests.  Warm to mild in the case of Cibotium glaucum and warm to hot for the Oceanopteris gibba.  Tonight I will be repotting these two into my new and improved tree fern substrate mix: 35% coarse Vermiculite, 35% peat moss/potting soil mixture (75%/25% respectively), 10% sandy, mucky mix I was using before and 20% leaf mold and humus.

I can't wait to get my Cibotium barometz!  Next on the acquisition list is Dicksonia antarctica, which will spend the hot months of May 15-September 15 inside or it will not make it here.

I know I really take my "aspie obsessions" to the nth degree but I enjoy the challenges of growing plants needing exacting conditions and I also enjoy sharing my experiences, failures and successes.  Thank you for reading and for sharing your own experiences with your own tree ferns.

-Michael

[edbrown_III]

wow  where did you get the Cyathea australis ?   thats a fine species --- I grow a few tree ferns ---I like the Florida tree fern Ctenitus solonei and Diplazium esculenteum ---  The Ctenitus gets about a foot of trunk and the Diplazium         --- I have trunks to 7 feet.  

[palmsOrl]

I found the Australian tree fern, Cyathea (Alsophila) australis on eBay a couple months back.  It was listed as "Alsophila australis".  There aren't any listed on eBay currently, but you might check back periodically as from my communications with the seller, it sounds like he lists them for sale periodically.

Thank you for sharing your Ctenitis sloanei and your Diplazium.  I love the fact that we have a native tree fern!  Does the Ctenitis ever suffer from cold damage in your area or do you always protect them from freezing temperatures?

[Kaname-kun]

In my experience, having lost many small tree ferns, the extreme constant heat of Florida summers is fatal. They just melt. Some species can adapt to it when the plants are gallon-size or above, and the larger they get, the better they do. Good luck! 

[palmsOrl]

On 8/31/2020 at 7:56 AM, Kaname-kun said:

In my experience, having lost many small tree ferns, the extreme constant heat of Florida summers is fatal. They just melt. Some species can adapt to it when the plants are gallon-size or above, and the larger they get, the better they do. Good luck! 

I think the heat really took a gradual toll on the small tree ferns the past few months, but they hung in there and stayed looking okay.  The heavy soil was also far less than ideal, no doubt.  But, what I think really did the small ones in was when I decompressed the soil with a plastic chopstick, like they sometimes recommend in bonsai culture.  I really got in there and I think I destroyed much of the already delicate, compact root systems by stabbing the chopstick through the soil every which way.  The little tree ferns really went downhill in a hurry after that.

I think my Alsophila australis and Cyathea medullaris will pull through.  The australis is slowing growing a stunted frond (not visible in the below photo), so with time in a humidity chamber indoors and in good substrate, I think it will pull through.

The medullaris still has a fairly healthy frond that has not steady gone down hill recently like on my other small plants, so I think it will also survive, given time in mild temperatures at nearly 100% humidity.

As for the C. Intermedia, I think it is a goner, because the fronds kept looking worse and worse and I cut them off last night, treated the center "bulb" with hydrogen peroxide, but the bulb looks brown, so the plant may have died.  We shall see...

The felina and tomentosissima also had fronds that were clearly slowly dying, so I cut these off, but the center bulb on these two looks golden orange and alive (kind of tough to tell from the photos), so they might eventually pull through.  These also got the hydrogen peroxide treatment.

My Cyathea cooperi, Cibotium glaucum and Oceanopteris gibba are quite happy with the new substrate and the warm, humid conditions.  I have been moving the cooperi outside at night and in during the day, to spare the root system (which would normally be in the ground and much cooler) from the excessive temperatures, until the weather cools down a bit.

[palmsOrl]

As I mistakenly mentioned in "The World of Ferns" thread recently, we were sent a mutated Oceanopteris gibba, so last night a third plant was ordered and I specified to the vendor that we would like the third plant to be a standard looking Oceanopteris gibba, since my grandma wants one.  Now I have both.  The freak is all mine, lol. 

Maybe I can name a new cultivar!  "Chernobyl"?  Maybe that's in poor taste?  How about, "Mushroom Cloud"?

[edbrown_III]

forest of Cyathea arborea in PR 

[edbrown_III]

first photo is actually Alsophilia bryophilla  at the top of the mountain in El Yunque

[palmsOrl]

Those are both beautiful species Ed.  I think I mentioned it before, but seeing photos of Cyathea arborea is what made me fall in love with tree ferns and inspired me to want to grow/collect them.  I don't know why C. arborea is so difficult to source.  There are so many species available via spore banks and vendors like rps.  Rps has an extensive selection of tree ferns.

I think all four of my smallest tree ferns have bit the dust, but the Alsophila Australis is hanging in there, albeit in a much weakened and reduced state.  The rest are looking healthy though.  Still waiting on that Cibotium barometz from Thailand.

-Michael

[edbrown_III]

yeah its heaven on earth ---- I gotta go back and see it again ---spend a week there 

 

[palmsOrl]

On 9/4/2020 at 3:08 PM, palmsOrl said:

As I mistakenly mentioned in "The World of Ferns" thread recently, we were sent a mutated Oceanopteris gibba, so last night a third plant was ordered and I specified to the vendor that we would like the third plant to be a standard looking Oceanopteris gibba, since my grandma wants one.  Now I have both.  The freak is all mine, lol. 

Maybe I can name a new cultivar!  "Chernobyl"?  Maybe that's in poor taste?  How about, "Mushroom Cloud"?

I happened across a photo while doing a Google search last night and have identified the imposter.  It is an already named cultivar of a different species within the same genus "Blechnum" aka "Oceanopteris".

Blechnum (Oceanopteris) brasiliense "Cristatum" is the positive ID on the similar, if somewhat less graceful looking fern that we received the second (and now third) time around, when we were expecting Blechnum gibbum.  Below is a photo of this cultivar:

Photo Credit:

https://www.shadyplants.ie/photo_15206757.html

Below is the third plant we received yesterday from the vendor:

Needless to say, this plant is neither healthy, nor what we ordered, so the return process has been initiated and a Blechnum gibbum has been ordered from another vendor.

-Michael