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UK_Palms

Spring/Summer drought in southern England and northwestern Europe.

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UK_Palms
13 hours ago, cbmnz said:

Hate to say it, but no guarantee rain will come in your Summer, might do, might not. By Feb here was wondering "what on earth will happen to the landscape if it does not rain for another month?"  and then it didn't. Quite a few established native trees and shrubs died (but 90% survived). The NZ evergreens like Pittosporum give no warning, they look ok until the day they run completely out of water, then within days the leaves go brown and they don't come back. I lost a small R. Sapida the summer before, thinking that was dry until this summer made it look rookie, did water it, but not enough. The natives in the UK being mostly deciduous, they may handle extreme moisture stress better, drop leaves and go dormant, not sure..

Things should recover here in the coming weeks. The Met Office is forecasting June to have below average temperatures and a considerable bit of rain, at least during the first half of the month anyway. I guess we'll see whether that is the case. If the forecasts are correct about it being cool and wetter, that will break the cycle of warm, dry June's which we have been experiencing in recent years. The past 3 consecutive June's have been very warm and very dry, with the past two June's experiencing no rainfall at all (0.0).

The last time we had a cool, wet June here was back in 2016. But then we also had a heatwave and drought come mid July lasting about 8-9 weeks and going well into September. So it could be a similar case this summer. Actual 'summer' may start cool and wet, but there's no way we'll go the whole of summer now without any heatwaves or drought issues. Come late July / early August we almost always see temperatures push the 100F mark these days due to the 'Sahara' plumes of air coming up from North Africa. Some summers we get 2-3 plumes where temperatures reach 95-100F. We never used to get that. The UK's 3 hottest ever temperatures have occurred in 2019, 2003 and 2018.

Then there's also the unreliable rainfall from March - September to factor in on top of that. Even if we do got a fair bit of rain over the course of summer, it still won't be enough to compensate for the current drought and very low water table. It's just got to such an extent in recent weeks that I can't see it not being an issue a few weeks down the line from now, when the temperatures start hitting the 90s F and the rainfall stops again. Assuming we even get much rainfall in the next few weeks...

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Shiveringtropicals

A whole lot of rain is forcasted for the next 2 weeks here too, good cause we could really use some rain now.
The dead patches of grass are getting bigger and some big street trees in the town next to mine are starting to drop their leaves already.
But the humidity is rising i can feel it, it is cooler than yesterday but it feels a lot warmer and clouds are starting to roll in.DSC03718.thumb.JPG.da9a9b15cc61cb34a85ef0f7fabc1d2e.JPG

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Edited by Shiveringtropicals
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UK_Palms

Hallelujah... the rain finally arrived on Wednesday afternoon! My first measurable precipitation in 6 weeks. Unfortunately, as I predicted, the rain has barely amounted to anything as it has just been 'spitting' or 'drizzling' here today. You can barely even tell that it's rained, if it wasn't for the fresh rain/earthy smell that is particularly strong right now. 

People in more tropical climates may have no concept of just how light this type of rain can be in cooler, temperate regions. At this time of year as well, you can literally go outside in this rain wearing just a t-shirt, for several hours, and not actually get wet, so to speak. It's just so light and the evaporation rate exceeds the rate at which the rain is falling, therefore it doesn't really amount to anything. Likewise, the ground also doesn't really get wet. Even if it 'spits' or 'drizzles' for several hours at a time here, which has been the case today. So you're often just getting 'trace' amounts of rainfall here. Unlike in tropical and continental regions which experience heavy downpours and thunderstorms, especially in summer. 

I have recorded 0.1 inches of rain on Wednesday, so my 2020 annual total is now up to 5.3 inches for the year to date (of which 3.8 inches fell in February alone). On the current trajectory, I would be ending the year on around 12-13 inches of rain. November and December are my two wettest months though, so there's plenty of time to get back up to the normal average of 18-19 inches. I'm not expecting much rainfall over the next 10 days though. Maybe 0.5 inches in total. More drizzle and light showers here and there, but nothing substantial according to the Met Office and forecasters. Warmer, drier conditions will be resuming towards the middle of the month though.

A correspondent for the Met Office says we need 3-4 inches of rain in June to replenish the drought and water table, but there's not a chance that will happen. June has statistically been my driest month over the past 5 years and I'm not expecting more than an inch of rain at most across the whole month. The 0.08 inches today was a start though. I only reached a high of 20C / 68F on Wednesday. Only expecting 65F on Thursday as this cold, Atlantic front moves in.

@Shiveringtropicals Did you receive any rain yet pal? Seems most of Europe is getting some rain now. Spain, Italy and France have had heavy rain and floods.

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Shiveringtropicals
13 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Did you receive any rain yet pal? Seems most of Europe is getting some rain now. Spain, Italy and France have had heavy rain and floods.

Just a light drizzle, nothing substantial only 0.2mm or about 0.008 inches thus far.
Luckily more is expected for the coming hours and days, And there are some thunderstorms forecasted for tomorrow.
The clouds are getting darker and we barely got any sun today.

The wind is picking up too the rain must be close.

Edited by Shiveringtropicals

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Tyrone

UKPalms I have experienced that drizzly rain you mentioned when in the UK. I was in Bournemouth in the summer at a sports venue and the drizzle was so light it sort of defies gravity and the slightest wisp of the wind has it blowing quite a fair way under covered areas that in Australia would see you very dry when raining unless a gale was blowing. It was strange. It didn’t really wet you down it just made you feel kind of damp. I’ve never really seen that sort of thing in Oz. Albany can get something similar at times when the mist kind of congeals a bit into something slightly heavier, but it wasn’t quite the same as what I saw in the UK.

If you only start to get 12-13 inches of rain annually with summer drought then your climate has switched almost to a semiarid Mediterranean climate like Israel or Palestine. But then they may actually get more winter rain than that, I’m not sure. That is not the England portrayed on “Escape to the Country”.

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greysrigging
3 hours ago, Tyrone said:

UKPalms I have experienced that drizzly rain you mentioned when in the UK. I was in Bournemouth in the summer at a sports venue and the drizzle was so light it sort of defies gravity and the slightest wisp of the wind has it blowing quite a fair way under covered areas that in Australia would see you very dry when raining unless a gale was blowing. It was strange. It didn’t really wet you down it just made you feel kind of damp. I’ve never really seen that sort of thing in Oz. Albany can get something similar at times when the mist kind of congeals a bit into something slightly heavier, but it wasn’t quite the same as what I saw in the UK.

If you only start to get 12-13 inches of rain annually with summer drought then your climate has switched almost to a semiarid Mediterranean climate like Israel or Palestine. But then they may actually get more winter rain than that, I’m not sure. That is not the England portrayed on “Escape to the Country”.

I've seen similar on Norfolk Island. Rained for 2 days with lucky to be 2mm all up. Sorta clammy and uncomfortable. Was a real low lying mist.... all the surfaces and walls inside my motel room were damp to touch, including bed clothes and pillows. Back in 2002 there were no aircons on the island except at the hospital ( lack of generator capacity ). I opened front and rear doors on the room and the mist flowed in the front door and out the back door.... never seen the likes of it before and since....haha

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sipalms

Looking rather chilly for mid afternoon in summer... Hopefully you're getting some rain?

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UK_Palms
On 6/5/2020 at 12:00 AM, Tyrone said:

UKPalms I have experienced that drizzly rain you mentioned when in the UK. I was in Bournemouth in the summer at a sports venue and the drizzle was so light it sort of defies gravity and the slightest wisp of the wind has it blowing quite a fair way under covered areas that in Australia would see you very dry when raining unless a gale was blowing. It was strange. It didn’t really wet you down it just made you feel kind of damp. I’ve never really seen that sort of thing in Oz. Albany can get something similar at times when the mist kind of congeals a bit into something slightly heavier, but it wasn’t quite the same as what I saw in the UK.

If you only start to get 12-13 inches of rain annually with summer drought then your climate has switched almost to a semiarid Mediterranean climate like Israel or Palestine. But then they may actually get more winter rain than that, I’m not sure. That is not the England portrayed on “Escape to the Country”.

We'll definitely get more than 12-13 inches of rain this year. You'd think so, at least. The lowest I have ever seen is 16 inches here back in 2018 and it surely can't be less than that in 2020. We still have 6-7 months of the year left to go and October - December is statistically my wettest period of the year, so there's plenty of time to get back up to the average of 18-19 inches. Autumn and winter could be wetter than average as well, which would compensate for a drier than average spring and summer. I guess we'll just have to see. It has definitely got drier here though in the past two decades. Especially during the spring. The rainfall has become unreliable from March - September here, combined with the fact that it is also very light and doesn't amount to much.

I have however received more rainfall here over the past 48 hours though. I am currently up to 0.25 inches of rain for June now. The ground is still 'dry' to the touch though and ideally we need a good several inches this month to compensate for the drought. We're never going to get that though since it doesn't rain heavy enough, or frequently enough here. Temperatures are going to stabilise in the mid 20's C by late next week and with high pressure systems dominating again, we need to get that plentiful rainfall in the next week or so. Otherwise we're just not going to get it. Which I doubt we will in all honesty. I reckon I will finish the month on about 0.5 inches of rain, which is still a lot more than the 0.0 inches of rain that I got in June 2018 and 2019. Either way spring/summer is still pretty damn dry here in the grand scheme of things, irrespective of this light rainfall and cooler temperatures that we are experiencing in recent days. 

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UK_Palms

It hasn't been quite that cold here @sipalms. I recorded a high of 15.1C here today and I am currently at 14.7C right now. Either way it has still been my coldest June day in 7 years here though. Definitely a shock to the system after the 25-30C temps we were getting in mid May. The palms and plants don't seem to mind though. My Kentia actually seems to be recovering from the drought and heat and has just started putting out some new growth today. 

The nights are abnormally cold at the moment as well though, which was also the case even during the hot/dry May period. My overnight lows should be around 12-13C right now, not 7-8C. This will only last a week or so though, then it will be warm and dry again once this Atlantic/arctic airmass is pushed north due to high pressure. They're forecasting a big Saharan plume to hit around the 18th, pushing temperatures well into the 30's C, across the whole UK, not just the south. I think it will be hot and dry again from mid June right through to late August. 

On the rainfall front, I have just had my wettest day in almost 3 months. I am now up to 0.25 inches of rainfall for June here. Long may it continue, although something tells me it wont...

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sipalms

@UK_Palms - this coming 8 days will get you home and hosed? Or is it just drizzle...?

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UK_Palms

@sipalms Well the past week or so has been crap here. Highs of 16-21CNot much rain though at all, and I'm not convinced we'll get much in the coming days. We did have our heaviest rainfall this spring/summer yet today, but I am still only on 0.32 inches of rain for June and we are already over 1/3 of the way through the month. We've had about 5 rain days so far this month, but the rain that has fallen has just been so light that it has barely amounted to anything. Whatever is forecast to fall over the next week or so, probably won't be enough. It just 'spits' here and barely dampens the ground. BBC don't seem to be forecasting much rain on the horizon. Another high pressure system is moving in this weekend, and not budging, which means more drought no doubt. 

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The grass is greening up a tiny bit here from the 0.3 inches of rainfall, but it is barely noticeable. The soil is still like dust here so we literally need about 3-4 inches of rain this month to compensate and top up the water table. That's never going to happen though. We'll finish the month with 1 inch of rainfall if we're lucky, but I think it will be more like 0.5 inches. 

It's been so dry that I have nearly lost my Phoenix Theophrasti, which is planted in the ground. It has been showing severe drought damage since late April. I should have started hand watering in early April as the conditions were already pretty dry back then, but I left it about 3-4 weeks too late. Since then it has had about 10 deep waterings, starting in late April, which has greened up the surrounding grass significantly. The spears emerging from the Theophrasti are brown though and completely dried out. It seems in their native environment they grow right next to water sources and even have their trunks submerged. They also have access to deep subterranean streams/rivers. Whereas I just have dry, clay soil. 

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I have some pictures to document the effects of the drought in my area. The case study is the lake/pond in the woods where I used to fish...

15th October 2017 - thriving lake with vegetation, wildlife and a creek feeding it. 

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25th March 2020 - Water levels recover after being completely emptied during spring/summer droughts of 2018 and 2019.

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25th May 2020 - fish and wildlife are yet again killed off, or displaced.

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31st May 2020 - only a small bit of mud left

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10th June (9pm GMT) - not a drop of water in the lake/pond and creek. Even the mud has dried up, despite some light rainfall in June. This picture was actually taken just after it had stopped raining. 

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Just a few years ago there was a stream/creek running through here too, hence the bridge...

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UK_Palms

The weather has been crap here for June so far. The coolest and wettest June since 2015 on the current trajectory, which breaks the cycle of warm, bone dry June's of recent years. My average high temperature in May was 23.7C (74F), which compared to the average high of 20.8C (69F) for June so far shows a pretty cool, crappy start to summer here which has been relatively wet as well. Although we do need the rain after the severe spring drought. 

When I say 'wet' though, I have still only registered 0.87 inches of rainfall for the month so far, which I still consider wet for southern England in summer. Obviously people in places like Florida or Queensland would see it differently. Looks like we might get over an inch of rain before July gets here. At least the grass and drought damage has been able to recover quite a bit, although the water table is still ridiculously low. The next run of warm, dry weather will probably cause the drought to flare up badly again. I always feel like the next bushfire is right round the corner as well around here.

Forecasters are predicting temperatures in the low 30s C by mid next week for London and the southeast. I'm still expecting hot, dry conditions to resume properly by mid July and to last well into August here. Whether that is the case or not, we will see. After a very warm, dry spring, it still doesn't feel like summer has arrived properly yet here. 

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Edited by UK_Palms
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UK_Palms

One more day of cool, 'showery' weather on Sunday before summer properly gets going again here.

All of next week is going to be sunny, dry and becoming increasingly hot for southern England. I wouldn't be shocked if a few places around southeast London see mid 30's C (95F) by midweek.

Forecasters are predicting a much bigger heatwave the following week though as high pressure, Saharan weather systems start dominating. A few models predicting 37-38C as early as July 4th for London area. Hottest period is typically July 20th - August 10th, so still some way off yet the warmest period. Got a feeling July and August are going to be hot and dry. I can't see any rainfall in the 14 day forecast after tomorrow. 

I haven't even had an inch of rain yet for June, which is a concern. I'm thinking I better get sprinkler systems set up with the impending heat. The Trachycarpus's that are in full sun are really struggling this year with the lack of rainfall. Growth has been crap. More heat and drought won't help. 

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UK_Palms

An update from this part of the world. 

The heat and drier conditions have returned again, with highs today in the high 80's and low 90's across the southeast. 

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I maxed out at 88F (31C) here on the outskirts of Guildford. In the northeast of the county, going towards southeast London, temperatures were in excess of 90F in some places - Walton, Richmond, Hounslow & Wembley to name a few places. A few locations were reading 92-93F.

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Looks like the Hounslow-Richmond area is at least 91F...

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Wednesday and Thursday are forecast to be hotter than today. Both July and August have seen 100F+ temperatures before, but not June. Perhaps the June record will go on Thursday and a few places may nudge 100F. Obviously those sort of temperatures won't help the drought situation though. Rainfall for the year to date (2020) stands at 6.1 inches, most of which fell during winter. On the current trajectory the year will finish on 13-14 inches of rain.

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GottmitAlex
4 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

An update from this part of the world. 

The heat and drier conditions have returned again, with highs today in the high 80's and low 90's across the southeast. 

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I maxed out at 88F (31C) here on the outskirts of Guildford. In the northeast of the county, going towards southeast London, temperatures were in excess of 90F in some places - Walton, Richmond, Hounslow & Wembley to name a few places. A few locations were reading 92-93F.

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Looks like the Hounslow-Richmond area is at least 91F...

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Wednesday and Thursday are forecast to be hotter than today. Both July and August have seen 100F+ temperatures before, but not June. Perhaps the June record will go on Thursday and a few places may nudge 100F. Obviously those sort of temperatures won't help the drought situation though. Rainfall for the year to date (2020) stands at 6.1 inches, most of which fell during winter. On the current trajectory the year will finish on 13-14 inches of rain.

OMG.  Irrigate your palms if you can.

Come to think about it, those temperature readings are false since they're not from the whatever Home Office.

I'm being facetious. 

You guys are in for a hot summer.

I'm getting 83F daily and watering my palms twice a day. (South facing ones). 

Good luck!

 

 

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sipalms
7 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Come to think about it, those temperature readings are false since they're not from the whatever Home Office.

Lol hahaha

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UK_Palms
14 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

OMG.  Irrigate your palms if you can.

Come to think about it, those temperature readings are false since they're not from the whatever Home Office.

I'm being facetious. 

You guys are in for a hot summer.

I'm getting 83F daily and watering my palms twice a day. (South facing ones). 

Good luck!

 

 

Haha. Yes, I will be sure to try and keep things watered here during this warm spell.

Today was another hot one with temperatures in the 95-100F range. Here are more of those 'fake' temperature recordings from today.. .:lol2:

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7 hours ago, sipalms said:

Lol hahaha

You've got relatives in Farnham haven't you, not far from me? Looks like they reached 95F there today. 

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It appears south London did reach 100F in several places. The closest official Met station was about 6-7 miles away from the nearest 100F reading.

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Look at all these 'fake' temperature recordings...

 

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These are the temperatures around London at 7pm...

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I only managed to snap a few screenshots on my break at work and when I finished work at 7pm. I'm sure I could have found a few hotter spots with more 95-100F temperatures if I had more time to look during the day. Certainly in the southeast of London there were a number of hotspots that were hovering around 99-100F. 

Tomorrow may be a bit hotter than today. High 90's F across the board in places. It's still 80F here at 9pm right now. So if the temperature doesn't fall away much tonight, it will definitely be hotter tomorrow.

We've also been put on 'extreme' level fire watch. Everything is like tinder here, just waiting to go up in flames.

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sipalms

@UK_Palms who said they're fake? You seem to keep saying fake over and over

Edited by sipalms

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UK_Palms
3 minutes ago, sipalms said:

@UK_Palms who said they're fake? You seem to keep saying fake over and over

Jeremy, I only mentioned it in my previous post and I was obviously being sarcastic. Alex had also sarcastically referenced 'false' temperature recordings in his previous post, so I was just playing along with his joke. Suggesting the recordings are false/fake because they aren't 'official' Met station recordings, or acknowledged, by the Met Office. Which is an entire debate in itself, but still you must surely know that I was joking, in direct response to Alex's comment. 

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UK_Palms

It has been absolutely baking here today. Just too hot. I have recorded a high of 102F in the shade, on both of my two temperature sensors.

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Godalming which is about 3 miles southwest of me, clocked up a high of 100F. 

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Two separate London stations well above 100F...

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Temperatures across northern Surrey at 7pm...

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The temperature was still 100F here at 6:30pm! The days are real long at this time of year though. 

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Expecting a low of around 70F tonight, similar to last night. Possibly some thunderstorms tomorrow evening, which will be much welcome, as we desperately need the rain. Especially after the heat in recent days...

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sandgroper

Looks like you'll be in for a cold snap.

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UK_Palms

After a low of 71F last night, we maxed out at 94F here on Friday. However it was very humid too. Usually it's a dry heat here whenever it is hot, but today was pretty uncomfortable and sticky. Heat indexes were close to 100F around midday. Thankfully a cold front hit this afternoon and a breeze arrived, dropping the temperature considerably, down to about 80F by 4pm. 

After 6 consecutive days above 80F and 4 consecutive days above 90F, I'm looking forward to some cooler weather, and hopefully some rain, in the coming days. We are so parched here right now that we desperately need it. Surrey has missed out on the thunderstorms and torrential downpours that other surrounding counties have seen over the past 24 hours. We should get some rain tomorrow, but the question is 'how much'? It will probably be something like 0.1 inches. Barely enough to dampen the ground.

Getting sick of watering everything daily now. The Phoenix's especially guzzle so much water and the fronds yellow off if they don't get it. The two big queens as well are hating the heat and drought conditions. They won't grow unless I water the hell out of them during the summer months, and I mean water the hell out of them. 

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Yet again people have ignored social distancing, in light of the virus, and packed the beaches out like sardines during the past few days. Worse than Bondi beach on New Years...

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sipalms

Those beach pics are mind boggling. They've been all over the media here too.

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...

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That many people packed on the beach demonstrates to me either

a) Hot weather/days are very much few and far between in the UK

b) There's very few decent beaches and those ones are the nicest and hence crammed like sardines

c) People are sick of lockdown and openly defying social distancing just for kicks

d) All of the above

---

Honest question that hit me when I first saw that, where the hell does everyone park????!!! Or do people catch the train to the beach? 

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greysrigging

I prefer my beaches like this ....
 

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greysrigging

42.3c108f and a Bar right here... the Port Walcott Yacht Club .... paradise !....lol
 

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sandgroper
47 minutes ago, greysrigging said:

42.3c108f and a Bar right here... the Port Walcott Yacht Club .... paradise !....lol
 

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Completely agree, couldn't imagine anything worse than packed onto a beach like that, I'll stick to our beaches.

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UK_Palms
6 hours ago, sipalms said:

 

a) Hot weather/days are very much few and far between in the UKThat many people packed on the beach demonstrates to me either

b) There's very few decent beaches and those ones are the nicest and hence crammed like sardines

c) People are sick of lockdown and openly defying social distancing just for kicks

d) All of the above

---

Honest question that hit me when I first saw that, where the hell does everyone park????!!! Or do people catch the train to the beach? 

 

It's all of the above, to a degree. Except for the hot weather days part, as we do have quite a few hot spells over the summer.

Firstly, the majority of those people on the beaches have travelled to the south coast from London and other inland areas. Some who were interviewed said they had come from places like Hertfordshire and Birmingham! So they are not 'locals', even in regards to the southeast, and most of them got down there by train. There are videos showing thousands of 'tourists' emptying off the trains with beach towels and flip flops. Queue's as long as the eye can see, from Bournemouth train station right up to the beaches. Of course some people drove to the beaches as well and ended up parking on the grass, pavement/sidewalk and just cluttering up the streets in general. 

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https://twitter.com/SophietheOT/status/1275761205005758465?s=20


This is what the roads looked like around Bournemouth... during a pandemic...

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Secondly, with almost 45,000 virus deaths here in the UK (3rd most in the world), there are still millions of people who are furloughed from work, or unemployed, with nothing to do but stay in their houses all day pretty much. Obviously those people are fed up with lockdown, fed up of having nothing to do, and when the weather is hot and sunny, it's really not surprising they decide to go to the beach. They probably also see it as a mini holiday/vacation, since they can't go abroad at present - to Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Turkey etc. The usual holiday destinations for Brit's. So I understand why people chose to go to the beach when it's hot, but it's just the sheer numbers, during a virus pandemic, which is the problem.

It's not just the south coast beaches either. Places like Margate and Blackpool in the east and north were rammed hard as well...

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Dover...

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Brighton...

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Liverpool...

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The only reason I didn't go to the beach myself, or to a lake, is because I am not furloughed and I had to work the past few days... in the boiling hot heat. Otherwise I probably would have gone to the south coast myself. A chance to collect some CIDP and Washie seeds. I did however go out on my mate's boat on a lake in Surrey last night (after work), which also has a beach...

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The water temperature at the lake must have been at least 24-25C. Pretty warm.

The beaches however are only around 15-16C on the south coast at this time of year. They won't peak until August when they may reach about 20C. Being at 51N and having the Atlantic influence keeps the coastal waters pretty cold all year round. Although during hot summers the water can reach 21-22C. But I much prefer lake swimming. The water at Port Maguire has probably reached 28C during hot summers. 

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UK_Palms

Only reached 21C (70F) here today and we actually got some rain this morning, 0.13 inches to be exact. At least it's something. Quite windy here as well due to the cool/wet Atlantic weather system that has pushed back the hot air coming up from the Sahara. The rain that fell this morning has actually deposited sand on the cars around here. A common occurrence from April - September when hot Saharan air masses push north, reaching us, then colliding with cooler, wetter Atlantic fronts, causing the rain to deposit sand particles. There wasn't much sand deposited today, but sometimes it can be as bad as this...

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It's going to be cool and cloudy with highs around 21C for the next 7-10 days. Strong Atlantic influence with 20mph winds, overcast skies and frequent showers. Doubt they will amount to much rainfall though as I know the rain that does fall will be incredibly light and interspaced with sunny conditions. Perhaps 0.5 inches over the next 10 days. The Met Office seem to suggest that it will warm up massively around the 7th July, with Saharan air masses returning to dominate and pushing temperatures up into the 90's F again. One model is showing 35C (95F) on the 11th July for London. Either way the heat will return at some point within the next 2 weeks. 

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Earlier I went to check on the two biggest CIDP's around town, but the walkway to access them is still closed off. I had to take the photo through the gaps in the gate and you can just about see the fronds of the CIDP's sticking out either side. A pity I couldn't check to see if they are flowering, or carrying seed. There's some Chamaerops and Yucca's in there as well which I was hoping to check on, but unfortunately the garden is closed off. I'm guessing due to the virus. 

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PalmsNC

Im more surprised yall are buying these bogus temps... 104 ... yeah right the UK record for June is 96.  Get out of here with this disingenuous garbage.  Please educate yourselves

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UK_Palms
7 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

Im more surprised yall are buying these bogus temps... 104 ... yeah right the UK record for June is 96.  Get out of here with this disingenuous garbage.  Please educate yourselves

Listen, nobody is 'buying' these temperature recordings, and they exist to be questioned, since they are not 'official' stations and probably don't have Stevenson screens, or whatever they are called. But that doesn't change the fact that there are numerous recordings in the high 90's and low 100's F, consistently across large areas. Specifically areas that conveniently don't have any 'official' met stations nearby. But at the same time it doesn't make the recordings false, or wrong, does it. Again there are too many consistencies in the recordings for them to be totally discounted, just because they aren't 'official' stations. I know that temperatures were in the low 100's F in places on Thursday. My own personal recordings from my garden tell me that.

Also, are you saying that the recordings below are bullshit and false...?

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Even if Guildford was to be the hottest place in the UK, on any given day, it would never be recorded or recognised, since there are no Met Office stations around here. The same for my nearby towns. That itself is disingenuous because it is not a true reflection of temperatures across the board, especially in my area. That means I have to go by my nearest station, which is 10 miles away, because the 'official' Met stations are so few and far between.

Records can ONLY be set, and recorded, at Farnborough, Wisley & Alice Holt within a 15 mile radius of me. So only 3 locations. Any other locations within a 15 mile radius of me aren't counted, since they don't have 'official' stations there. So who the hell are you to tell me that I can't post my own observations and records from around here!? Or for the southeast in general. Are you saying that I am not allowed to record and post temperature data for Guildford and the surrounding area (since the Met doesn't)? Data that otherwise wouldn't be shown, or known.

It seems that you want it censored because it isn't 'official', or because you want to perpetuate that my location is cold and doesn't get hot temperatures. Either way I think you should mind your own business if you don't like, or agree, with what I am posting. How is it even disingenuous to post numerous temperature recordings, from across the board, to provide a better perspective of temperatures in certain areas, specifically places that don't have Met Office stations. In which case I think it is important to provide a wider outlook of recordings for these areas. And I have posted numerous 'unofficial' recordings so that there is a fair reflection of temperatures in these areas, rather than just one screenshot.

Also, I see other people uploading screenshots of various station recordings in their area, to give them an idea of temperatures across the board, and nobody questions the legitimacy of their recordings due to them not being 'official' stations. So it's one rule for the people in the US, NZ and Australia, and a different rule for me in the UK. Hmmmm okay then. 

Get out of here.

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PalmsNC

I apologize uk palms you are superior to your met office . They are so incompetent that temperatures across most of the region are 8 degrees higher than the National all time record and they have no clue ! 
 

 

Get out of here man no where broke 100 in the UK . Temperatures don’t vary that much where you are. This ain’t San Francisco

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cm05

WU doesn’t do a great job of quality control, so just be mindful. These stations can be mounted anywhere and temperatures on a rooftop or near concrete/asphalt are hotter than they would be in a more appropriate location.

I looked at a few stations in Guildford and got a general consensus that you probably maxed out at around 90-92°F (32-33°C). I also saw one station that had a max of 102°F (39°C), it also currently has a UV Index of 1246 (yikes), which would suggest that this station’s data is unreliable.

My own personal weather station isn’t always 100% accurate, despite the gold star rating on WU. My temperatures, rainfall, and pressure are generally spot on, but my wind and humidity/dew point data could be a bit better.

My unsolicited advice would be to find a few WU stations near you that match the official stations more closely, even if those official stations are 15 miles away and don’t reflect your microclimate 100%, those WU stations that stay within a few degrees of the official stations are likely the best representation of your actual conditions.

My station doesn’t always directly match my closest official weather station because my conditions are generally different, I’m further away from the Atlantic so my daytime temperatures in the summer are almost always a bit warmer, usually by no more than 3°F (2°C). Any 5-15°F (3-8°C) differences where localized rainfall or a strong warm/cold front isn’t involved should be a major red flag.

Edited by cm05
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sipalms

I do tend to echo the above sentiments, as @PalmsNC says, we're not talking about a San Fran here, with sea, mountains, plains etc. How there can be differences of up to 5degrees C across a 15 mile radius of rolling hills of mother England just is plain unbelievable. 

Then there's the obvious one that WU is a network of home weather stations with not a scrap of auditing or checking for accuracy. 

Then there's the fact that surely, surely if the Guildford/Surrey area was known to be consistently the hottest location in the UK, be it due to some natural or geographic influence, the Met Office wouldn't turn a blind eye to it. Every country wants to know what the hottest recorded temps are. Could you imagine hearing them saying/tweeting, "Thursdays record was 33.6 degrees at XYZ but it's likely that 37 degrees was recorded a few miles away at...". Nup, ain't gonna happen.

No one's doubting your integrity @UK_Palms it just seems that everything goes quiet for a while when your summer weather is in the late teens and early twenties, then suddenly temps actually reach 27-33 and we get inundated with supposed 'proof' that temps have got to near 40 degrees....

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sipalms
On 6/28/2020 at 3:09 AM, UK_Palms said:

Otherwise I probably would have gone to the south coast myself. A chance to collect some CIDP and Washie seeds

Genuine question, are there actually seeding Washingtonias in the UK?

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SouthSeaNate
2 minutes ago, sipalms said:

Genuine question, are there actually seeding Washingtonias in the UK?

No. None have ever even flowered, not even big ones.  Some Phoenix canariensis have seeded before but only in a few select locations & it doesn't happen every year.

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greysrigging

I have this very 'discussion' on Aussie weather enthusiast forums and groups. Home weather stations 'indicate' the temp in your back yard. Some reports sometimes get close to official readings, others a long way off. Official 'Screens' ( Met Office, BOM etc ) have to meet strict siting, exposure and instrumentation criteria. This also allows for valid comparisons to be made between locations. Comparisons that can only be truly accurate if all the devices and exposures are the same.
The other thing to remember is that on extreme heat days, max temps are generally ( notwithstanding 'micro climates' ) Spatially Coherent ie they don't vary that much. Using an Aussie example in say the Riverina ( rolling hills, farmland etc ) if its 41c in Wagga Wagga, it will be only a degree or so difference either way within a 30klm radius, if any difference at all.
I'm sorta in @sipalms corner on this one. Not doubting for an instant @UK_Palms enthusiasm, passion and commitment to the weather enthusiast and palm enthusiasts world. And mate, those pics of the dry and drought near your place are mind boggling....I could blink and think they were taken in the Wagga Wagga district last Aussie summer !
Is there a long term drying and warming trend in the SE of the UK ? In say the last 30 years . Or since 1950 ? Would be interesting to see some graphs. Parts of SE and SW Australia definiterly showing such trends in say the last 30 years.

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UK_Palms
4 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

I apologize uk palms you are superior to your met office . They are so incompetent that temperatures across most of the region are 8 degrees higher than the National all time record and they have no clue ! 
 

 

Get out of here man no where broke 100 in the UK . Temperatures don’t vary that much where you are. This ain’t San Francisco

I am not "superior" to the Met Office and you are taking what I have said completely out of context. When did I ever claim that "temperatures across MOST of the region are 8 degrees higher than the all time record". That's you talking crap to try and start an argument. The June record is 96F going by official Met station recordings, but that temperature has obviously been exceeded in places due to the lack of 'official' Met Office stations. There is not adequate coverage, especially in the hottest part of the country during summer. 

All I have done is post screenshots of independent weather stations in my area, since the Met Office only has a very limited number of 'official' stations, meaning the vast majority of my county does not have any 'official' Met coverage. It's not my fault that the nearest 'official' station is 10 miles from my house, in a location that receives far more rainfall and more frosts than I do. So that station is clearly not an accurate representation of my stats/climate here, 10 miles away. Some of the screenshots I uploaded are from areas where the nearest 'official' station is almost 15 miles away.

I know if you were in my position, it would be a different rule for you. So don't go there. Trying to dictate to me what my temperature is in my area and in my own back yard. Like you know it better than I do. And how would you know how much temperatures vary in my neck of the woods? Have you lived here before? 

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UK_Palms
3 hours ago, cm05 said:

WU doesn’t do a great job of quality control, so just be mindful. These stations can be mounted anywhere and temperatures on a rooftop or near concrete/asphalt are hotter than they would be in a more appropriate location.

I looked at a few stations in Guildford and got a general consensus that you probably maxed out at around 90-92°F (32-33°C). I also saw one station that had a max of 102°F (39°C), it also currently has a UV Index of 1246 (yikes), which would suggest that this station’s data is unreliable.

My own personal weather station isn’t always 100% accurate, despite the gold star rating on WU. My temperatures, rainfall, and pressure are generally spot on, but my wind and humidity/dew point data could be a bit better.

My unsolicited advice would be to find a few WU stations near you that match the official stations more closely, even if those official stations are 15 miles away and don’t reflect your microclimate 100%, those WU stations that stay within a few degrees of the official stations are likely the best representation of your actual conditions.

My station doesn’t always directly match my closest official weather station because my conditions are generally different, I’m further away from the Atlantic so my daytime temperatures in the summer are almost always a bit warmer, usually by no more than 3°F (2°C). Any 5-15°F (3-8°C) differences where localized rainfall or a strong warm/cold front isn’t involved should be a major red flag.

I'm not actually in Guildford, it just happens to be my nearest big town. I am about 3-4 miles outside of the town, nestled between two valleys. There can often be a 5F difference between my temperature here and the temperature actually in Guildford town. They are usually 5F warmer than me on the coldest nights, whereas I am usually 5F warmer than them on the hottest of days here in the valley. 

I know that I recorded 102.1F on one of my temperature sensors and 101.9F on the other, both of which are situated in the shade. I will give or take 2-3F off that to account for possible inaccuracies,  but I know that the temperature was around the 100F mark on Thursday afternoon/evening. The car was actually showing 41C (105F), but I obviously accept that was not the actual temperature. Again, closer to 100F here in my back yard. Guildford was likely mid-high 90's F. If people think all those independent weather stations are false, then so be it. Pretty sure most people wouldn't be saying the same thing if it was regarding temperature recordings in their own area. 

I think given that this thread is about the drought issue, and the effects of a warm-dry spring/summer in southern England, it is still relevant to post the temperature recordings from my area. Since there isn't any 'official' Met Office stations around here, or many official stations in general across the southeast. Again, such recordings that I am posting are open to scrutiny and cannot be taken as gospel. I get that. I am not for a second suggesting that they are all correct, but the idea that they are all wrong and false, and that nowhere exceeded 32C/90F on Thursday is ridiculous. I know the difference between 32C (90F) heat and 37C (100F) heat. And there's no way my two temperature sensors would be 10F+ off from the actual temperature. And the car wouldn't say 41C if it was only 32C.  

 

3 hours ago, sipalms said:

Genuine question, are there actually seeding Washingtonias in the UK?

 

2 hours ago, SouthSeaNate said:

No. None have ever even flowered, not even big ones.  Some Phoenix canariensis have seeded before but only in a few select locations & it doesn't happen every year.

Simply not true. Washies have seeded on Tresco and in Torquay. I know the big Filifera's in London and Essex have flowered as well. Maybe not set seed, but flowered. The main reason there isn't really any seeding is because people haven't been growing Washies very long in the UK, so there isn't many big, mature specimens around. Give it another 5 years and there will be quite a few big Washies around that are mature enough to fruit. There are a few decent sized ones now though, which should be ready to seed. They might be worth checking. 

And I have seen plenty of CIDP's carrying seed around London as well, providing there are male and female plants nearby to each other. I have collected and germinated CIDP seed from the south coast and London. I also collected some Filifera seeds in London as well, but I haven't germinated them as I already have two decent sized Filifera and many other Washies.

By the way, are you living in Malta? Or are you in the UK?

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The biggest Robusta in the UK, which is on Tresco. Flowers every 2 years supposedly. 

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Give it another couple of years and Washies will be everywhere. Filifera especially seems to do well in the southeast, as does Robusta.

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sipalms
2 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

The biggest Robusta in the UK, which is on Tresco. Flowers every 2 years supposedly. 

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Give it another couple of years and Washies will be everywhere. Filifera especially seems to do well in the southeast, as does Robusta

Putting it respectfully... that palm isn't the picture of a healthy flourishing Washingtonia...

Also just because they attempt to flower and fruit, most definitely doesn't mean they produce viable seed. Washies also have to be huge to start flowering and seeding and need reliable desert or subtropical heat.

From my own experience around here, where I dare suggest there are many more washingtonias and much larger ones, fruiting ones are extremely rare, even the telephone pole sized, due to likely lack of year round warmth. Same with CIDP.

2 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

I know the difference between 32C (90F) heat and 37C (100F) heat. And there's no way my two temperature sensors would be 10F+ off from the actual temperature. And the car wouldn't say 41C if it was only 32C. 

Nup.

I don't know what sorta car you drive but I had a VW and it used to read consistently above the actual temp by about 4 degrees C on a partially cloudy summer day, and as much as 8 degrees C on a cloudless hot day.

Also had another car that read 47 degrees C on our hottest day of the last decade which was 41.3C in 2011.

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We've had some more of that weird Saharan sand rain again...

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Interesting to see if it leaves much sand particles on the surface of things. It only lasted about an hour and coincided with some light drizzle rainfall. Kind of odd given that we have an Atlantic front over us right now. The Saharan weather system was pushed back on Friday/Saturday. Maybe there's still sand in the atmosphere? Or the sand travelled further north than us, but is being pushed back south by the Atlantic front and being deposited over us now?

 

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