Desert Rose Fans?

[Silas_Sancona]

10 minutes ago, mnorell said:

I will have to pay attention to those fertilizer instructions. I am always very bad about fertilizing and just tend to add something at planting and then, I'm embarrassed to say, maybe every couple of years I'll get a bug to fertilize things a little. I'm trying to be more organized about it nowadays as I'm not getting any younger and I want to see these things grow and flourish. Out west in the desert, I've learned to use "vegan" organic fertilizers only. I started with Espoma organics (which I use in Florida with great results) but in the desert the blood/bone components drew loads of flies and gnats (horror of horrors!) and changing that out for a mix of kelp meal, cottonsead meal and alfalfa meal has made them go elsewhere. Anyone who thinks mosquitos and no-see-ums in the southeast and Florida are bad...just try coming out to the desert in "fly season." They will drive you batty!

I think that mixture of peat/compost organics mixed with limestone is the basis of "marl." A lot of plants in southeast Florida grow in it and seem to thrive. I never worry about it in the Keys and things seem to do well. Big issue there is the hyper-basic irrigation water, with a pH of something like 9.0. Filled with insane amounts of Fluoride and chloramines as well. But when you don't have the daily rains (60+ inches annually) of the southeastern Florida peninsula, and you are on a dry, dry island, you have no choice unless you can install a catchment system for those huge and infrequent downpours.

I'm hoping someday to see a seedpod on an Adenium. I love growing these things from seed, they are very satisfying and somehow very comical to watch, to me in some weird way they look like chubby little opera singers with their cotyledons outstretched as they sprout, and they grow pretty quickly and of course they bloom a lot more quickly than do Plumeria. I have read that you have to place rubber bands around those pods as they will open and release those little seeds to the wind and you will never see even one unless you trap them somehow. Anyone have any idea what might pollinate them in the southern tier of the USA?
 

Being honest, haven't kept to a normal feeding schedule as well as i should either since moving here, lol.. With everything taking what can be a 4 week, or 2 1/2 month growth-break during the summer, ( the "break " being dependent on how quickly Monsoonal humidity /showers return to help spur another growth cycle / beat back the worst of the heat, if such conditions materialize at all during a given summer ) i don't want to push too much new growth on anything, knowing what the heat can do..  At the same time, Plumerias being a perfect example, if i don't feed 'em, i may not get flowers this/ or next year.. Looking forward to not having this challenge, or it being far less of a challenge after i move.

Espoma makes a good product.. Have had excellent results thus far using products from Down To Earth and E.B Stone. Like that i can get stuff like Crab/ Oyster Shell Meal, Langbenite, other more obscure ingredients and mix my own blends. Started infusing ground Egg Shells when making batches of soil for some cactus cuttings/ seed batches, when repotting the new Adenium also.

As far as " Fly season"  here, not too bad most of the time, except when a neighbor spread manure this spring.. then it got buggy for a few days.. Believe it or not.. Mosquitoes are worse, especially once Monsoon storms return. Monster, flying Cockroaches are awful here also.. When you can see something crawling on a block wall, -in just Moonlight- no porch light needed, from a distance of 50ft away.. That's something you could walk w/ a leash.. not an insect, lol..

I think in the ground, the reaction between Limestone and Peat might not be as much of an issue compared to any issues that occur in containers.  Our water is horribly hard also, and full of Chloride/ Chloramine.. You can smell the Chlorine when running the tap in the kitchen sometimes.

Only thing i can think of that might pollinate Adenium here in the states might be some sp. of Sphinx Moth, maybe some species of bees.. Spinx Moths do pollinate Plumeria and Pachypodium. A curious question that falls in line with wondering who pollinates Epidendrum Orchids here and in CA.. As far as what is currently documented, none of the Euglossine ( Orchid ) Bees are recorded locally.. but i've seen old plants sitting around in a nursery w/ pods forming on them numerous times.. 

As far as Plumeria, have been told by several veteran Plumeria gurus you can get plants from germinated seed to flowering in about 4 years under ideal conditions. That said, some varieties will produce seedlings that will mature/ flower faster than others ( Red flowered = often the slowest growers overall ).

Looking forward to all of mine flowering, on time, every year instead of a few this year, a couple next year kind of pattern mine have experienced here.. Again, that is partially my own fault, lol.

[palmsOrl]

I stopped by the Home Depot today to pick up some perlite for an appropriate substrate mix for my Adeniums and they had about 20 newly arrived Adeniums for sale and I was looking for a pure white one and I saw this nice symmetrical fatty for $12.98 and just had to have it.  A real bargain in my opinion and another specimen with great bones for bonsai.

I repotted the double red into a bright red pot to match the flowers.

Finally, all three plants.  The larger two are getting new decorative pots tomorrow and will be repotted into a more suitable mix.  These two will also be hard pruned to promote ramification.  Then they will also get a good time released fertilizer and a dose of systemic fungicide and they should be good to go.

[palmsOrl]

So today was not an encouraging day for my desert rose collection.  

Firstly, the cutting I took from the beautiful plant I bought for my boyfriend ended up rotting despite diligent care and lots of fungicide.  I assume it was some sort of bacterial rot.

Additionally, I repotted the two larger of my three plants and they both had areas of rot on the caudex below the soil line.  The one from Home Depot for $12.98 had a large area that was rotted as well as about 1/3 of the root mass.  

What I did was carve away most of the rotted tissue on the severely affected one, repotted the two larger ones and treated all three with systemic fungicide and brought them inside by a window so they can absorb the fungicide without any rain and hopefully if I treat the two larger ones a few times that are infected already they can pull out of it.

I went to Ollie's and found two beautiful white ceramic pots for $4.99 each for the two larger plants so I guess there is a silver lining to everything.

[Umbrae]

[Umbrae]

[Umbrae]

[Umbrae]

[Umbrae]

[Umbrae]

[mnorell]

On 6/6/2020 at 9:54 AM, palmsOrl said:

So today was not an encouraging day for my desert rose collection.  

Firstly, the cutting I took from the beautiful plant I bought for my boyfriend ended up rotting despite diligent care and lots of fungicide.  I assume it was some sort of bacterial rot.

Additionally, I repotted the two larger of my three plants and they both had areas of rot on the caudex below the soil line.  The one from Home Depot for $12.98 had a large area that was rotted as well as about 1/3 of the root mass.  

What I did was carve away most of the rotted tissue on the severely affected one, repotted the two larger ones and treated all three with systemic fungicide and brought them inside by a window so they can absorb the fungicide without any rain and hopefully if I treat the two larger ones a few times that are infected already they can pull out of it.

I went to Ollie's and found two beautiful white ceramic pots for $4.99 each for the two larger plants so I guess there is a silver lining to everything.

 

I would suggest that you fully debride that caudex of damaged tissue and then let the surface dry in the open air, in addition to your fungicide treatment. Also, rather than using a soil mix with perlite, you would do yourself a favor to change over to a succulent/bonsai mix that has very little organic material at all. Try a mixture of smallish (3/16"-3/8" or so) pumice, lava rock and perhaps some calcined clay and even some fine-grade orchid mix to hold on to some water. To that end you could also mix in a bit of orchid moss (coarse peat) or big, rough chunks of coconut coir (you'll probably need to tear this out yourself from a husked fruit) down in the mix around the roots as long as it's not too compacted, to hold on to some water and absorb any fertilizers. You can order the bonsai mixes online, Bonsai Jack is one common (but expensive) brand you can easily find but there are other suppliers of course. Perlite is obnoxious as it always works its way to the top of the mix but pumice generally stays put since it is heavier; and the "potting mix" type of soil you are using is likely what is giving you that rot. 

Also, remember to wear eye protection with Adenium when scraping, cutting, pruning, cleaning out old rot, etc., and that you wash your hands very well with soap and water a couple of times afterward before touching your face or any open cuts. While many members of the Apocynaceae are considered variously "toxic," people usually ignore admonitions to be careful around the sap. However, Adenium is one of the most deadly poisons known ("Bushman's poison" used to coat deadly spear-tips). So with this genus you should take such cautions very seriously.

[jimmyt]

@mnorell thanks for the 411 on the adenium care and toxicity.  Don't want to suffer the "Death by Desert Rose"!

[palmsOrl]

Those are beautiful Umbrae!  I was thinking I would stick to the darker fancy colored flowers but your plants convince me that I need to get some lighter, multicolored varieties too

Mnorell, thank you for the input.  The soil I used was about 30% potting soil, 30% perlite and 40% sandy FL soil.  The sandy soil has some organic matter so it looks dark, but it is mostly sand.  I really like the bonsai soil idea and may go with a good quality Alabama, especially if these fail and I have to try again.

I will certainly be careful handling Adeniums from now on knowing how toxic they are!

 

[Umbrae]

finally after several weeks of delay 

[Umbrae]

a few days and they will be sprouted 

[palmsOrl]

Amazing Umbrae!  I can't wait to see some of these flower someday, especially the Multi Black.  Please keep us up-to-date on the progress of your new seeds.

My three Adeniums are hanging in there, though the new buds even on the healthy one suddenly blasted the other day.  But I figure, as with so many things, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and I gave them all a massive dose of fungicide for that reason and figured they would lose lots of leaves and the flowers but at least the plants may pull through with a few more heavy doses of propiconazole.  Being in proper, freely draining substrate should help, though to do it over again I would have gone with a  straight sand and gravel mixture.

If the two diseased plants don't end up making it, I will repot their replacements in a sand/gravel mix.

[Umbrae]

[Umbrae]

they starting to pop

[palmsOrl]

Per previous advice, I might add the treatment step of watering my two diseased plants with a bottle of hydrogen peroxide before watering with the heavy dose of fungicide a few hours later (since hydrogen peroxide breaks down to water quickly anyways).

I also added some Dynamite brand fertilizer, not usually recommended for sick plants, but I did see someone online mention that they thought this might actually help with the infection.

I am not confident that the hydrogen peroxide will permeate the diseased tissue enough to make a difference, but I can certainly try.

As you can see, on the worst affected plant with the large area of caudex that I carved out, the infection appears to have spread a bit further, so I may just need to keep the affected plants out of rain so they can get really dry between watering with the hydrogen peroxide and fungicide.  I might need to just do this for three months and see how it goes.  Again, the soil is much more sandy than it appears in the photos since I used Florida sandy soil with a lot of dissoved organic matter, thus its dark color.

Truthfully though, if it is still spreading on the one plant in a month, I will just chuck it, and remember to keep the Home Depot receipt next time and check the caudex before buying.

[Silas_Sancona]

Recently repotted new specimen finishing up flowering and starting to push new growth after shedding all the Greenhouse grown leaves as it adjusts to it's new digs.. Much better looking "soil" than the stuff it was in.. Another 2 weeks and it will get it's summer feeding of natural K ( 22% ), Eggshell, and Crab Shell Meal ( 4-3-0 )





Purple Jade filling out nicely and getting ready to flower..  Soil mix is  D.G. Grit / Pumice, and Turface.. Organic content is less than 20%.. Think i used ground Coir/ some small, reclaimed Pine Bark. A bit lanky but has always been that way.  Lower part of my 8yr old Bursera microphylla " Waterman Mtns form " on the far left ).. it is also in a natural, no organics mix.  Should make it through the summer/ fall before it will need to be repotted ( pot is deteriorating. )

[greysrigging]

My good friends Anna and Jacques posted up some pics on our local gardening FB page yesterday

 

[Umbrae]

[palmsOrl]

Umbrae, you have quite the operation there!   Stunning, stunning flowers.  You inspire me to keep fighting to keep my humble collection of three plants alive here in Florida.  Please do keep posting updates.

[Umbrae]

I'm cooking up a new thread 

[Dr Sha]

Pretty

[palmsOrl]

Looks like a big project there Umbrae.  Good luck pulling it off.  Please do keep us all up-to-date.

[Makaisland Palms]

While not quite at the scale of @Umbrae, I have my first flower on my first grown plant!  I'm in the club!  

[Umbrae]

new batch of grafted adenium from Thailand 

[Umbrae]

babies popping 

[jimmyt]

Adenium question for the experts;   What fertilizer(s) do you all use on your adeniums?  Seems that on my generic adeniums when I use a foliar fertilizer(that is good for other plants) they reward me by dropping their leaves.   I know someone has the answer to this $64,000 question......  Thanks

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, jimmyt said:

Adenium question for the experts;   What fertilizer(s) do you all use on your adeniums?  Seems that on my generic adeniums when I use a foliar fertilizer(that is good for other plants) they reward me by dropping their leaves.   I know someone has the answer to this $64,000 question......  Thanks

Others may differ but this is what i use:   -All organic btw-

**Crabshell Meal ( 3-4-0 ) ratio, Chitin from the "shell" also helps to keep down Nematodes, specifically those that can invade/ damage roots/ etc..

**Natural Langbenite for Potassium ( 22% K ) 1 or 2X's / year.  Adenium like their Potassium, like Plumeria, Hibiscus, anything related to Strelitzia/ Heliconia ..etc. (  Use this formula on them as well ) Can also use a combined product called Sul-Po-Mag.. Works great too. GREAT for palms also...

**Any natural source of Phosphorus.. Using Seabird Guano ( 11% PH ) atm, once a year.. Any more, applied too often, is too much ..for pretty much anything..

**Epsom Salt a couple times a year.

**Oyster ..or regular ol' Egg Shells ( pulverized ) for a good Calcium source..  Very important for good growth on Cacti also.

**Also throw in a teaspoon of Azomite 1 or 2 X's/ year.

I'll mix up just enough to apply a ring around the inside of each pot, closer to the edge, where feeder roots will be located. Water in just enough that it will settle just beneath the surface, and let it do it's thing.. Pumice and Turface in my mix will absorb some of the nutrients as watered, releasing said nutrients to the plants later, between waterings..



 

[Umbrae]

[jimmyt]

Thanks for the fertilizer answers, Silas, and Umbrae.  You are guiding the blind........ 

[Umbrae]

in my experience they are a little hungrier than most folks think during the growing season 

[Umbrae]

[palmsOrl]

My three Adeniums continue to hang in there.  I have been trying to move them into full hot sun during rainless days and back onto the porch at night before the sprinkler hits them and also I have been moving them inside if we get a heavy storm that wets the porch.

I have continued to treat all three with fungicide so hopefully the two large ones with active disease will gradually recover.  Perhaps I can keep the fungus from spreading for the remainder of the growing season then keep the plants almost bone dry all winter and when I do water like once per month, use fungucide and maybe that will actually be curative.

By the way, with the exception of those palm seedlings in the attached photo, this inner part of the porch is my "rehab center" for plants with active disease.  Thus, I am both keeping them as dry as possible and treating with systemic fungicide.  Note, the Washingtonia robusta which I think had a touch of root rot as well as the Hawaiian ti plant and the Phalaenopsis orchids just acquired all sorts of disease.  But surprisingly, I have found that the Phals pull through even severe infections more easily than most plants, let alone orchids!

There is also a little struggling Monk orchid (Oeoceoclades maculata) in back there.  I think it will pull through though, as it has a solid pseudobulb there.

[palmsOrl]

I saw some lovely, healthy looking desert rose plants while shopping at Lowe's this afternoon.  Alas, I had to pass this time.

[palmsOrl]

Oooops...  

[palmsOrl]

Okay, I just repotted my newest desert rose that I purchased from my local Lowe's yesterday.

I have to brag on Lowe's and this one particular desert rose supplier of theirs, Nature's Way Farms, located in Miami, Florida.  

As shown in yesterday's post, all of the Adeniums they had appeared healthy and were in full bloom.

I decided to repot tonight so I could see if the caudex or the roots had any fungal or other disease issues.  I also just so happened to have a pot that I feel compliments this Adenium's blooms quite well.

Once I removed my plant from the original pot and began removing the existing soil, I was amazed to find a nice, fat, healthy caudex and a flawless root system.  Both the caudex and roots were free even the slightest evidence of rot.

That said, my new Adenium did come potted in a mixture that is way too heavy for Adeniums, so rot issues would have been a certainty in the future had I not repotted it into a mostly inorganic mix.

Suffice it to say, I am extremely pleased with the end result, what a beauty!

Front view of the plant:

Rear view:

[Silas_Sancona]

Adenium X " Purple Jade " tossing out a few flowers.. Contrast pic. #1 with pic. #2.  Same plant, different locations ( Chandler, AZ. =pic. 1 Vs. Bradenton, FL =pic. 2 ) Quite the variation in how this cultivar flowers.

[palmsOrl]

Simply gorgeous both Silas and Umbrae! 

As a result, I feel that Adeniums (along with tree ferns for their pre-historic, palm-like mystique) are destined to be one sub-interest of mine within gardening/horticulture that really sticks, as their flowers are some of the most vivid and striking I have seen in their "size-class" if you will.  In my personal opinion, the richness and variety of color seen in Adeniums far surpasses that of actual roses.

I also kind of appreciate the fact that, like temperate bonsai, you can just "put them to bed" for 4-5 months each year, during which they require minimal care.  I envision winter quarters as an outdoor, shaded corner under a roof to avoid periods of chilly rain.  During this time, I will water once per month or so and add a smidge of fungicide to the water for good measure.  I had considered just keeping them as decorative pieces in my bedroom during this time, as I think their leafless forms would be fascinating to admire, but I don't think steady 71F -75F temperatures would keep them sufficiently dormant.

Speaking of "size-class" related to flowering plants, for extremely small flowers, the Lepanthes genera, (neo-tropical, mainly montane forest-dwelling, small to mico-minature-sized orchids) within the Pleurothallid alliance are my absolute favorite.  Each bloom like a shimmering, living gemstone and often a comparable size, or smaller than their mineral counterparts, this mysterious, elusive group of mainly twig-epiphytes has captivated me ever since I opened my first book on orchids many years ago. 

I have, in the past, grown at least 150 plants, representing, at minimum, 60 Lepanthes species.  These are both expensive and highly challenging to cultivate, in most cases requiring elaborate terraria (sometimes called Pleurothallidariums) to maintain environmental parameters that are just right for their survival and to entice the finicky, diminutive orchids to bloom.  Seriously, they should have a twelve-step program for these (and orchids in general)!  Of all the sub-disciplines within horticulture/gardening, I find orchids to be the most addictive.  While I have had countless hours of fun and enjoyment during the observation of, procurement of, shopping for, constructing elaborate setups for and caring for orchids over the past 24 years, I have spent more money, and experienced more disappointment, frustration and loss dealing with orchids than with all other plants I have dealt with combined.  Thus, I tell myself now, "Do not navigate to eBay and search "Lepanthes", do not navigate to eBay and search "Lepanthes"...".

If I had unlimited resources, I would definitely still maintain a few separate setups around the house that would each provide a different diurnal temperature range for warm/intermediate, intermediate/cool and cool/cold growers. 

Here are a few examples of the flowers produced by this group of bizarre and otherworldly orchids.

Lepanthes wendlandii:

Photo Credit: 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/374502525245113170/

Lepanthes telipogoniflora (my second favorite species and a warm grower to boot, each bloom is slightly smaller than a US quarter):

Photo Credit: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.orchidsforum.com/threads/lepanthes-telipogoniflora.15639/%3famp=1

Lepanthes lucifer (I tried this one three separate times and just couldn't keep the little devil alive):

Photo Credit:

http://www.orchidspecies.com/leplucifer.htm

Lepanthes calodictyon (It's all about the foliage; I kept this easy grower several times over the years, also a warm grower):

Photo Credit:

https://newworldorchids.com/shop/lepanthes-calodictyon/

Lepanthes tsubotae (My all-time favorite Lepanthes, failed with it three separate times until I tried keeping it in one of those decorative little glass globes with the circular side opening atop a bed of live sphagnum moss and watering with only distilled water while it sat near a window in PA.  This is a cool-intermediate grower):

Photo Credit:

https://www.ecuagenera.com/Lepanthes-tsubotae/en

Lepanthes aguirrei:

Photo Credit: 

https://www.flickr.comphotos/kligo/13511101933

Note - "/" removed between ".com" and "photos" in the above like so the link would not convert to the photo itself when copied and pasted.

Lepanthes elegantula (I never did have luck with blooming this striking species and the plants I teied tended to slowly decline and eventually perish with time):

Photo Credit:

http://orchidsinbloom-ron.blogspot.com/2011/02/lepanthes-elegantula.html?m=1

Lepanthes escobariana (I successfully grew the plant for at least a year once, but was never able to coax a bloom):

Photo Credit:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lepanthes

Lepanthes filamentosa (Last but only least in size, this almost microscopic species from Colombia features a full-sized leaf of just under 1/4" in length.  I would know, as I recieved this speck of dust in an orchid order in early 2006.  Despite my best efforts, it succumbed to rot with a couple weeks):

Photo Credit:

https://www.jungledragon.com/image/77756/lepanthes_filamentosa_rio_ambi_colombia.html

 

Sorry to derail my own thread.  Now back to Adeniums!!!