Roystonea regia (Royal Palm) in extreme South Louisiana.

[JJPalmer]

Stumbled upon this Royal Palm in Port Fourchon, which has been in the ground since at least 2013.  Is there a precedent for growing 9B/10A palms in Southern LA?  I was thoroughly surprised when I found this relatively long-term example, especially considering I doubt any plant nursery's carry Royal Palms anywhere near this location.

Streetview here:

[Tropicdoc]

No way !!!!!!!

My best friend has a camp in Grand Isle. I'm trying to convince him to plant some Beccariophoenix Alfredii. 

Royals survive for a long time in Galveston. So, Fourchon is not that different I guess. That one looks great. But, we have had 2 mild winters in a row.

 

[Tropicdoc]

This week I wondered if I could grow a royal, only protecting the meristem with wraps and heat cables. Then I said, "nah, I'll stick with my hardy hybrids."

[Jeff985]

That’s encouraging. I recently planted one. I live north of Galveston about two blocks west of Galveston bay so I thought I’d give it a shot. My winter temps are typically only 1 or 2 degrees colder than Galveston. 2018 it was 3 degrees colder than Galveston. Any idea how cold it got there in 2018?

[JJPalmer]

10 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

That’s encouraging. I recently planted one. I live north of Galveston about two blocks west of Galveston bay so I thought I’d give it a shot. My winter temps are typically only 1 or 2 degrees colder than Galveston. 2018 it was 3 degrees colder than Galveston. Any idea how cold it got there in 2018?

I'm searching for an observation station in Port Fourchon that goes back to 1/2018, but I haven't had a lot of luck.  I do know that it snowed there that winter though. Obviously it can snow when the temp is above freezing, but still. Hard to imagine when NO hit 24 that Port Fourchon didn’t hit freezing. 
 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by JJPalmer

[PalmTreeDude]

Wow! That royal actually looks quite happy, I bet it did really well this winter. I always wondered what palms were capable of growing in the far southern end of Louisiana. 

[Jeff985]

7 minutes ago, JJPalmer said:

I'm searching for an observation station in Port Fourchon that goes back to 1/2018, but I haven't had a lot of luck.  I do know that it snowed there that winter though. Obviously it can snow when the temp is above freezing, but still. Hard to imagine when NO hit 24 that Port Fourchon didn’t hit freezing. 
 

N.O. Lakefront Airport recorded a low of 19f on Jan. 17, 2018. 

[PalmTreeDude]

Is this the same palm? I just looked around Port Fourchon on google maps as well. 

[necturus]

Is it on the south side of that building? There was a nice Royal in Galveston that grew very tall until it got out from the protection of a tree... and then it died in the last bad cold spell. Still very impressive though!

[mnorell]

It also hit 19F right in the heart of the Quarter and all the way out to Audubon Park, which is very rare and shows just how cold that wave was in 2018. The urban core of New Orleans is about as warm as it gets in Louisiana due to the UHI effect and the mass of Pontchartrain and Maurepas perfectly placed to modify the arctic air flowing toward the city in **most** situations. But Port Fourchon is really IN the Gulf more or less, so I think all bets are off and it sounds plausible that they may have only seen mid/high 20s there. Also that palm is facing pretty much due south with a building to its direct north and so the meristem could have been protected even if the leaves partially or completely burned off in that event. It's pretty well documented that Royals are known to come back from a brief hit in the mid 20s, I think even more like 20F in Central Florida in 1989, perhaps also in Galveston and other protected areas in Texas...and I have read that there are mangroves (not sure which species) growing for long spells around the far reaches of the Louisiana boot, knocked back by freezes every so many years but regenerating.

[kinzyjr]

@JJPalmer Nice find!  @RedRabbit is going to love this.

[Jeff985]

27 minutes ago, necturus said:

Is it on the south side of that building? There was a nice Royal in Galveston that grew very tall until it got out from the protection of a tree... and then it died in the last bad cold spell. Still very impressive though!

There are still several survivors in Galveston 

[Jimbean]

That's interesting.  I always thought if you went far enough south in Louisiana that you could grow more subtropical and tropical plants.  

[mnorell]

It's not just about how "south" you are, but whether you have a good body of water to your northwest, north and northeast. New Orleans is a tropical city horticulturally for years at a time. I've seen large Plumeria trees growing behind courtyard walls, riotous mature sprays of yellow allamanda and divorce vine, thick masses of blooming Alpinia speciosa, large Ravenea rivularis with substantial trunks, Wodyetia, and even of the "hardier" stuff you will find queen palms of a finer, lusher quality than anywhere else in the USofA...you can just about name it...but then every so many years, that is pretty much reduced to horticultural rubble. It's a crying shame!

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

21 minutes ago, mnorell said:

It's not just about how "south" you are, but whether you have a good body of water to your northwest, north and northeast. New Orleans is a tropical city horticulturally for years at a time. I've seen large Plumeria trees growing behind courtyard walls, riotous mature sprays of yellow allamanda and divorce vine, thick masses of blooming Alpinia speciosa, large Ravenea rivularis with substantial trunks, Wodyetia, and even of the "hardier" stuff you will find queen palms of a finer, lusher quality than anywhere else in the USofA...you can just about name it...but then every so many years, that is pretty much reduced to horticultural rubble. It's a crying shame!

Ive seen some big Ravenea rivularis halfway down the delta, Ill give NOLA some credit.  they have some ancient CIDP that rival many on the west coast.

[Xenon]

2 hours ago, mnorell said:

It's not just about how "south" you are, but whether you have a good body of water to your northwest, north and northeast. New Orleans is a tropical city horticulturally for years at a time. I've seen large Plumeria trees growing behind courtyard walls, riotous mature sprays of yellow allamanda and divorce vine, thick masses of blooming Alpinia speciosa, large Ravenea rivularis with substantial trunks, Wodyetia, and even of the "hardier" stuff you will find queen palms of a finer, lusher quality than anywhere else in the USofA...you can just about name it...but then every so many years, that is pretty much reduced to horticultural rubble. It's a crying shame!

This also describes the inner parts of Houston to a T. Except the body of water is being in the core of a massive heat island. 

[mnorell]

3 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Ive seen some big Ravenea rivularis halfway down the delta, Ill give NOLA some credit.  they have some ancient CIDP that rival many on the west coast.

And speaking of Phoenix canariensis, I was gobsmacked to see, last year (in February of 2019), a pretty big Phoenix canariensis with a full, beautiful head of leaves in Sicily Island, Louisiana...this is a little town in Central Louisiana, to the northwest of Natchez, Mississippi (where I had recorded 13F in January of 2018). I had lost a very big (20 ft) Phoenix sylvestris previously, in I think 2014 at a somewhat higher temp, and to see this fairly big and perfect-looking tree even farther north was a shocker, since Sicily Island is definitely colder than Natchez. I don't have any pictures of it with its full crown but here is that P. canariensis in Sicily Island in May of 2018 damaged (but recovering) a few months after that freeze certainly into the very low teens: Sicily Island Phoenix canariensis, May 2018

[RedRabbit]

12 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

@JJPalmer Nice find!  @RedRabbit is going to love this.

Its a great find for sure. I'm actually not too surprised by this, its at 29.1N so its roughly as far south as Daytona Beach.  USDA has this area at 9B so I presume royals should do okay. 

It is impressive somebody actually found a royal to plant there. Props to them because I can't imagine anybody sells them in LA.

Edited May 12, 2020 by RedRabbit

[Tropicdoc]

22 hours ago, mnorell said:

It's not just about how "south" you are, but whether you have a good body of water to your northwest, north and northeast. New Orleans is a tropical city horticulturally for years at a time. I've seen large Plumeria trees growing behind courtyard walls, riotous mature sprays of yellow allamanda and divorce vine, thick masses of blooming Alpinia speciosa, large Ravenea rivularis with substantial trunks, Wodyetia, and even of the "hardier" stuff you will find queen palms of a finer, lusher quality than anywhere else in the USofA...you can just about name it...but then every so many years, that is pretty much reduced to horticultural rubble. It's a crying shame!

Agree that the queens in New Orleans look better than anywhere. It must be the gumbo clay soils and the rainfall. 
 

if you head to Venice Louisiana there are commercial citrus groves. Venice is literally in the gulf connected by only a sliver of land.

i think beccariophoenix should be planted in places like fourchon and grand isle.

 

[Tropicdoc]

18 hours ago, mnorell said:

And speaking of Phoenix canariensis, I was gobsmacked to see, last year (in February of 2019), a pretty big Phoenix canariensis with a full, beautiful head of leaves in Sicily Island, Louisiana...this is a little town in Central Louisiana, to the northwest of Natchez, Mississippi (where I had recorded 13F in January of 2018). I had lost a very big (20 ft) Phoenix sylvestris previously, in I think 2014 at a somewhat higher temp, and to see this fairly big and perfect-looking tree even farther north was a shocker, since Sicily Island is definitely colder than Natchez. I don't have any pictures of it with its full crown but here is that P. canariensis in Sicily Island in May of 2018 damaged (but recovering) a few months after that freeze certainly into the very low teens: Sicily Island Phoenix canariensis, May 2018

Have you seen the cidp in bay saint Louis? It’s probably 50 feet tall. It’s crazy.

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

On 5/11/2020 at 9:49 PM, mnorell said:

And speaking of Phoenix canariensis, I was gobsmacked to see, last year (in February of 2019), a pretty big Phoenix canariensis with a full, beautiful head of leaves in Sicily Island, Louisiana...this is a little town in Central Louisiana, to the northwest of Natchez, Mississippi (where I had recorded 13F in January of 2018). I had lost a very big (20 ft) Phoenix sylvestris previously, in I think 2014 at a somewhat higher temp, and to see this fairly big and perfect-looking tree even farther north was a shocker, since Sicily Island is definitely colder than Natchez. I don't have any pictures of it with its full crown but here is that P. canariensis in Sicily Island in May of 2018 damaged (but recovering) a few months after that freeze certainly into the very low teens: Sicily Island Phoenix canariensis, May 2018

that thing pulled through 13ish degrees? what a survivor!  In terms of size, you really cant beat NOLA in old CIDP in the south.  these rival even the ones in LA.  

.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9357995,-90.0820167,3a,75y,5.55h,106.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swAcmld1LYLX3-emRj8WVuQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[mnorell]

Wow, I have spent some time around the Garden District and never came across those giant Phoenix canariensis, which demonstrate that it is a very cold-hardy species...obviously they are old enough to have survived both 1962 and 1989. Both of those, I believe, delivered somewhere in the vicinity of 11F to New Orleans (city). Nice find!!!

And re: Bay St. Louis, that is also surprising to me, since, despite its coastal location, it gets its shots of very cold air that are long-lasting. During cold waves, I used to compare its temperatures with Natchez, which is a little over 100 miles north of the Gulf but warmed somewhat by the Mississippi River and the slight advantage of a more westerly location, and Bay St. Louis was only a degree or two--if that--warmer during most cold events. It is surprisingly cold along the Mississippi and Alabama gulf coasts. Partly I think because the coast does rise northward in that stretch, plus it is just a place where cold seems to wedge in and dig south if it can't move east into Florida/Georgia; and of course there is no significant water to the north to modify those air masses, even if you can look at the ocean 100 ft to your south... A very frustrating area in that regard.

[JJPalmer]

14 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

that thing pulled through 13ish degrees? what a survivor!  In terms of size, you really cant beat NOLA in old CIDP in the south.  these rival even the ones in LA.  

.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9357995,-90.0820167,3a,75y,5.55h,106.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swAcmld1LYLX3-emRj8WVuQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Looks like there may have been some quite large bananas in the 2007 image, unless I'm mistaken.  If so, shows how warm NOLA can stay for extended periods of time.

Edited May 13, 2020 by JJPalmer

[Tropicdoc]

1 hour ago, mnorell said:

And re: Bay St. Louis, that is also surprising to me, since, despite its coastal location, it gets its shots of very cold air that are long-lasting. 

 

The one in Bay St Louis is surrounded on 4 sides by buildings (courtyard). It is ancient, but maybe not as tall the ones from New Orleans above. 

[PalmTreeDude]

Could an Archontophoenix cunninghamiana survive under canopy in New Orleans? I would assume so since there have been reports of them coming through 24 and 25 degrees F with some damage, but growing out of it. I feel like that would be a great palm to experiment with down there, they can take the humidity and long periods of cooler weather, which some tropical plants can’t handle. 

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

2 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Could an Archontophoenix cunninghamiana survive under canopy in New Orleans? I would assume so since there have been reports of them coming through 24 and 25 degrees F with some damage, but growing out of it. I feel like that would be a great palm to experiment with down there, they can take the humidity and long periods of cooler weather, which some tropical plants can’t handle. 

Nola has gotten lower though, many queens were killed in the 2018 freeze.  I'd love to see how Alexander's would do down the delta, betcha they would be fine in Grand Isle or Leeville

[JJPalmer]

14 minutes ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Nola has gotten lower though, many queens were killed in the 2018 freeze.  I'd love to see how Alexander's would do down the delta, betcha they would be fine in Grand Isle or Leeville

Just looked around Grand Isle and found these Traveler’s along with some stout looking Bismarck’s. The travelers make me think Alexander’s would, most winters, do fine. 

https://goo.gl/maps/VSN8ksWWXRuqCFmi8

[JJPalmer]

I found some pictures of Royals, some of which took a beating on Grand Isle in 2018. The first two pics are of the same palms in March and April, the second is of some other royals in September. It seems like after some time in the ground they could be a long term planting. 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by JJPalmer

[JJPalmer]

Here are the Royals in July 2019:

 

[Jeff985]

4 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Could an Archontophoenix cunninghamiana survive under canopy in New Orleans? I would assume so since there have been reports of them coming through 24 and 25 degrees F with some damage, but growing out of it. I feel like that would be a great palm to experiment with down there, they can take the humidity and long periods of cooler weather, which some tropical plants can’t handle. 

A. Cunninghamiana has done well in the warmer parts of the Houston area for 10-15 years at a time. NOLA’s climate and Houston’s are nearly identical, so they should do pretty well there. 

[Xenon]

2 hours ago, JJPalmer said:

Just looked around Grand Isle and found these Traveler’s along with some stout looking Bismarck’s. The travelers make me think Alexander’s would, most winters, do fine. 

https://goo.gl/maps/VSN8ksWWXRuqCFmi8

 

There's actually a big royal palm behind the Ravenala in the historical (2013) street view. 

[JJPalmer]

8 hours ago, Xenon said:

There's actually a big royal palm behind the Ravenala in the historical (2013) street view. 

Good catch - I was on mobile and didn't have access to past images. Wonder if it died in 2018, as it looks really healthy in that image. 

[Tropicdoc]

Man, yall are making me want to get a fishing camp down there in Grand Isle!

That area is probably amenable to Royals, Alfies, Bizzies, queens, pygmy dates, maybe Kings. (at least for 20-30 years anyway)

[ShadowNight030]

Grand Isle was completely destroyed unfortunately during Hurricane Ida in 2021. I stumbled across the Marina the royals are planted at on Instagram, and surprise! The royals are still there as the Marina rebuilds. A bit of a blurry photo, but I can see them. 

[bubba]

Royals flourishing in the very south end of the Bayou is really no surprise. When you see the low temperatures, even during an arctic incursion, it is rare to see a freeze. Lots of warm water surrounding those extreme southern areas in the Bayou! Sweet!

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

On 3/8/2022 at 1:26 AM, ShadowNight030 said:

Grand Isle was completely destroyed unfortunately during Hurricane Ida in 2021. I stumbled across the Marina the royals are planted at on Instagram, and surprise! The royals are still there as the Marina rebuilds. A bit of a blurry photo, but I can see them. 

Wonderful they survived, looks like the first one posted also survived, a bit battered of course... Sabals all look great as expected, queens suffered fairly high casulties, pygmy dates did surprisingly well, as did other phoenix

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.1540023,-90.1806282,3a,19.7y,231.3h,93.86t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipPSfTZ1HgdWA7KA3VgUOf3TtLWkOWWJGLmuNdZn!2e10!3e11!5s20191101T000000!7i7680!8i3840