Journal of Syagrus romanzoffiana var. 'Litoralis' in 8a.

[Dartolution 970]

I decided to create a Journal to share over time for these with culture and temperature data over their lifetime here in 8a. 

I placed my order for these on April 19th 2020.

They shipped April 21st, and arrived today April 23rd. 

 

These are 3yr old Syagrus romanzoffiana var. 'Litoralis' seedlings in 4"x4"x14" tree liners from MPOM stock parents I believe [forgot to ask but have sent out an inquiry] that are used in hybridization.

Michael has been easy to work with, keeps good communication, and I have received what I have ordered quickly. 

 

1 seedling will be planted 

1 seedling will be potted

1 seedling will be given away in 7b (family).

 

I intend to compare the 3 over time.

 

Here are some images from this morning:

 

 

Id like to hear others thoughts and experiences with this variety of queen palm as well. 

Please share!

 

Thanks

[JLM 1,236]

Looks great!!

 

[Dartolution 970]

Planted 1 of the 3 in the only spot I really have left for anything. 

This is a raised bed with lantana, and canna lilly's in it.

I dug a large hole in the center of the bed and mixed in equal parts of the native soil in the bed (which is composted mulch, sand and broken down clay with equal parts of fox farm ocean forest mix, and Jungle Growth, then added in some soil conditioner for drainage and additional organic matter. 

Put a light layer of cypress mulch over it and watered it in heavily. 

 

And so the journey begins:

 

 

 

[JLM 1,236]

Cant wait to see your progress!

[8B palms 136]

They all look super healthy and came really well packaged. Were did you purchase them from, if I can ask what price do they go for? Keep us posted on their performance. 

[Dartolution 970]

@8B palms shot you a message.

[8B palms 136]

Thank you, sorry what is MPOM?

[Dartolution 970]

Mule Palms of Mississippi 

[Swolte 1,045]

Thanks for the thread. I'll be following the trial with interest! Since you're in 8a, what are the winter protection plans?

[Dartolution 970]

@Swolte When needed a heat cable at the base, C9 christmas lights around the trunk and fronds, wrapping every part I can in heavy duty frost cloth. 

I am toying around with the idea of taking PVC pipe and using that as an extra support around the trunk when wrapping, and give it an air pocket that will help hold heat in when needed. 

We will see. 

 

[JLM 1,236]

@Dartolution

Never though of a PVC pipe! Thats a pretty good idea!

[VA Jeff 157]

On 4/29/2020 at 11:33 AM, Dartolution said:

@Swolte When needed a heat cable at the base, C9 christmas lights around the trunk and fronds, wrapping every part I can in heavy duty frost cloth. 

I am toying around with the idea of taking PVC pipe and using that as an extra support around the trunk when wrapping, and give it an air pocket that will help hold heat in when needed. 

We will see. 

 

If you filled it with water, it would hold far more heat, but I don't know if the expansion from freezing would break the pipe.  If the pipe didn't break, it would also act as a heat sink on hot days.

[Dartolution 970]

45 minutes ago, VA Jeff said:

If you filled it with water, it would hold far more heat, but I don't know if the expansion from freezing would break the pipe.  If the pipe didn't break, it would also act as a heat sink on hot days.

I do not think we have to worry about temperatures getting THAT cold. Especially if there are lights wrapping it, heating the water up. 

But, that is a thought. 

 

[PlantDad 108]

How are you going to protect the queen palm from cold once it grows really tall?

[Meangreen94z 1,728]

Probably light a bonfire at the base every night below 25*F

Edited May 30, 2020 by Meangreen94z

[Collectorpalms 2,027]

I had several of these they died. They were thinner than some of my other queens and could not handle long durations of mid to low 20s.  Maybe I shouldn’t have pulled them out so quick but clearly they were not hardier.

[necturus 565]

Yeah, most of the accounts on here do not support litoralis being any hardier than standard queens. Some Santa Catarina queens are monstrous and seem to tolerate more cold than the standard queens. I'm growing some from seeds and will test them out. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms 3,230]

Exactly @Collectorpalms and you live pretty close to where regular queens will survive indefinitely.  The silver queens are no good from what I have seen. 

[Dartolution 970]

This one in particular of the 3 has got quite a lot of tomentum. 

[Dartolution 970]

Here is another picture of the Tomentum on this potted litoralis. 

The celosia have fizzled out mostly and seeded in the pot, and this provided a good look at the white covering. 

 

I did not have this on the regular queen I had before that I remember. 

[Dartolution 970]

Update: Hard to tell in the picture but nice growth out of this potted one. 

The one in the ground definitely needs some room to breath. I need to thin out some Cannas around it in the spring. 

[Allen 1,355]

1 minute ago, Dartolution said:

Update: Hard to tell in the picture but nice growth out of this potted one. 

The one in the ground definitely needs some room to breath. I need to thin out some Cannas around it in the spring. 

Nice!  is that a hibiscus in the front there?

[Dartolution 970]

Thanks @Allen.

Yeah its one of the "cajun" varieties. Blooms profusely, really nice pop of color. 

Ill have to get a better picture of this queen palm when I start moving the patio plants inside in a month or so. 

The 2 biggest things I've noticed about this litoralis queen is the heavy amounts of tomentum, and how much more vigorously the potted one grew of the 3 I received. That one only had 1 single immature leaf on it when it was potted earlier this year. I wouldn't say it grows any faster than a regular queen, but it has beefed up at the bast significantly. 

 

[Keys6505 386]

On 4/29/2020 at 10:33 AM, Dartolution said:

I am toying around with the idea of taking PVC pipe and using that as an extra support around the trunk when wrapping, and give it an air pocket that will help hold heat in when needed. 

When I lived in 7a I used to use insulated HVAC flex duct to sleeve anything tall I was trying to overwinter.  Most have a plastic lining which helps to keep it dry, a wire reinforcement for shape rigidity,  they come in different lengths and diameters to suit whatever is needed, and they have an actual R-value.

[Dartolution 970]

2 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

When I lived in 7a I used to use insulated HVAC flex duct to sleeve anything tall I was trying to overwinter.  Most have a plastic lining which helps to keep it dry, a wire reinforcement for shape rigidity,  they come in different lengths and diameters to suit whatever is needed, and they have an actual R-value.

@Keys6505 I have several sizes already, and a thermacube. 

I will likely use it in conjunction with a strand of C9's. 

 

[Collectorpalms 2,027]

I have one left in a 15 gallon pot that I am pondering planting. But I would not trust it to survive below 20 without wrapping the trunk. The leaves will still be toast at 23-24. The thing is if we have another 10 years of warm weather I can get it to a nice size, Probably better than sitting in a pot anyhow having to nurture it.

[Dartolution 970]

@Collectorpalms Well, All I can say is that plants (palm or not) are much hardier and better off in the ground, that in a pot. 

I don't know about planting it now though. 

If I were in your shoes I would most definitely plant it in the spring after your last frost date, give it some good TLC and the full length of the growing season to get its roots down. 

Perhaps throwing it in the garage for the winter is an option?
 

[climate change virginia 172]

On 10/6/2020 at 8:51 PM, Dartolution said:

@Collectorpalms Well, All I can say is that plants (palm or not) are much hardier and better off in the ground, that in a pot. 

I don't know about planting it now though. 

If I were in your shoes I would most definitely plant it in the spring after your last frost date, give it some good TLC and the full length of the growing season to get its roots down. 

Perhaps throwing it in the garage for the winter is an option?
 

putting it in the garage is an option just put a heat blanket around the pot so the pot does not freeze. If you have a freezer in your garage put it next to it and put some cardboard and plastic wrap around it like a box and don't forget to have grow lights. If the pot freezes that queen is done you will have a queen palm ice pop.

[JLM 1,236]

4 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

 If the pot freezes that queen is done you will have a queen palm ice pop.

Queen palm ice pops dont sound fun :/

[Dartolution 970]

As of Monday night, we have lows in the mid/upper 20's projected  for next week, and while the highs are in the mid 50's I thought it best to go ahead and take advantage of today, and wrap the queen for the winter. 

First, I bound up the fronds:

 

Then applied a double layer of 2.5oz frost cloth:

 

Over that, I wrapped the tree in burlap:

 

Then put down three stakes in the ground, tied the palm off to each stake for extra support, and then wrapped a 25 strand of C9 clear lights all around the entire palm:

 

Lastly, I put down the heat cable at the bottom and wrapped it around the base of the palm to provide ground warmth and warmth at the base.

End result:

 

 

My neighbors were VERY confused, and likely a little concerned about me now. lol 

 

Hopefully this will get this little palm through the winter.

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 28, 2020 by Dartolution
spelling/picture

[JLM 1,236]

Looks fine to me! We are projected to have our first freeze here, with a low of 30. This could very well go lower into the upper 20's though on Monday night/Tuesday morning. I might wrap my queens in lights and leave them be. Winds are supposed to be cranking with gusts possibly up to 30 mph, wind chills into the 20's for sure. The lights might not even be able to provide any warmth, but they should be able to withstand upper 20's.

[climate change virginia 172]

looks like a chrismas cane without the hook

[DCA_Palm_Fan 630]

On 11/27/2020 at 9:48 PM, Dartolution said:

As of Monday night, we have lows in the mid/upper 20's projected  for next week, and while the highs are in the mid 50's I thought it best to go ahead and take advantage of today, and wrap the queen for the winter. 

First, I bound up the fronds:

 

Then applied a double layer of 2.5oz frost cloth:

 

Over that, I wrapped the tree in burlap:

 

Then put down three stakes in the ground, tied the palm off to each stake for extra support, and then wrapped a 25 strand of C9 clear lights all around the entire palm:

 

Lastly, I put down the heat cable at the bottom and wrapped it around the base of the palm to provide ground warmth and warmth at the base.

End result:

 

 

My neighbors were VERY confused, and likely a little concerned about me now. lol 

 

Hopefully this will get this little palm through the winter.

 

Thoughts?

Looks like a good wrap job to me.  Just don't forget to turn those lights off  when the temps get back up above freezing in the morning.  Ive fried a palm that way by leaving them on.   

Wishing you all luck up there with this cold snap.   Were going down to the low 50's tonight and possibly low to mid 40s tomorrow night in Southern FL.  Well see.  Im  not protecting anything as im on the water and usually when we get cold like this it stays upper 40's to low 50's right at my place.  

[Dartolution 970]

@DCA_Palm_Fan Haha, you're in 10A? What I would give to live there! 

I have a thermacube but I didn't bother with it. 

[DCA_Palm_Fan 630]

38 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

@DCA_Palm_Fan Haha, you're in 10A? What I would give to live there! 

I have a thermacube but I didn't bother with it. 

haha.  Yeah, I finally was able to pull the trigger and do the big nearly 1k mile move from DC to southern FL.  went from 7A/b to 10A.   I think 10A is a far north as I will ever live again. I love it more than I ever thought I would.   I may live down here now but I will always remember my time up north and trying to zone push up there. 

[climate change virginia 172]

can you keep us updated through the winter and also in your zone you should build a big Styrofoam box around it to protect it then put a tarp over so no mold grows. also how can palms go without sunlight during the winter while protected I never fully understood that?

Edited December 1, 2020 by climate change virginia

[Teegurr 437]

2 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

can you keep us updated through the winter and also in your zone you should build a big Styrofoam box around it to protect it then put a tarp over so no mold grows. also how can palms go without sunlight during the winter while protected I never fully understood that?

They probably wouldn't grow anyway, because it's too cold. When temperatures get back up to reasonably acceptable for the palm, the protection comes off and the palm grows again. They will be fine for a relatively short period of time.

[climate change virginia 172]

8 hours ago, Teegurr said:

They probably wouldn't grow anyway, because it's too cold. When temperatures get back up to reasonably acceptable for the palm, the protection comes off and the palm grows again. They will be fine for a relatively short period of time.

so is all of January ok?

[floridaPalmMan 178]

Wow very cool thread. 

I've also got a few silver queens but they'll be growing inside this winter. 

Looking forward to your results!

[Reyes Vargas 803]

Can't wait to see how it looks in spring.  Wish you luck and hope this winter is not to bad.