Which trichocerus am I?

[RyManUtah]

I was bought at a local grocery store garden center as “outdoor cactus, $8”.

I need To know what I am so I can be planted in an appropriate place if I am a clumping variety. 
 

 

[Tom in Tucson]

This resembles a 2-3 year old Carnegiea gigantea

Hi 73˚, Lo 55˚

[RyManUtah]

41 minutes ago, Tom in Tucson said:

This resembles a 2-3 year old Carnegiea gigantea

Hi 73˚, Lo 55˚

Interesting. Thank you! 

[jimmyt]

Here is a 5+ year old saguaro juvenile in my cactus bed about the same size.  Spines are longer, denser, darker.

[Austinpalm]

56 minutes ago, jimmyt said:

Here is a 5+ year old saguaro juvenile in my cactus bed about the same size.  Spines are longer, denser, darker.

Great cactus for central Texas.  Do you protect it often during the winter?

[jimmyt]

This was the smallest of 4 I have had in pots for several years.  Since they are supposed to be cold hardy to 8a, so I put this one in the ground.  This is just the second winter for it in the ground.  I have not provided any protection for it since it has been planted.  I May plant the other larger ones if this works out.  

Maybe a False Saguaro(Pachycereus)?  Cardons and Saguaros are reportedly difficult to distinguish apart when small. 

[necturus]

It looks like a Trichocereus terscheckii to me, but it could be one of the smaller hybrids.  Doesn't look like a cardon or saguaro.

[Austinpalm]

9 hours ago, jimmyt said:

This was the smallest of 4 I have had in pots for several years.  Since they are supposed to be cold hardy to 8a, so I put this one in the ground.  This is just the second winter for it in the ground.  I have not provided any protection for it since it has been planted.  I May plant the other larger ones if this works out.  

Maybe a False Saguaro(Pachycereus)?  Cardons and Saguaros are reportedly difficult to distinguish apart when small. 

Interesting, I have been thinking about trying saguaro here in Austin but have not pulled the trigger yet.  Was hoping to get a plant at least a foot tall, maybe two, just so it would have some cold hardiness.  Also am wanting a little more instant gratification than anything smaller could provide.  These seem so slow for the first 10 years or so. 

I have seen saguaro in Austin from time to time, but they usually do not make it as they are planted in too much shade or too wet of a location.  We get enough winter rain to make it a hard grow here without proper siting. I am convinced that they would survive in full sun on a good slope or hill, but they just are not used often enough here.  I do see several Trichocereus tersheckii as well as a very few Neobuxbaumia polylopha.  They both seem to do very well here.  Neo's are a bit tender when small (under 2 feet), but seem tough enough beyond that.  Do you have Ferocactus cylindracea or wizliznei.  I am trying both of those.  I see wizliznei around town with some regularity.  It occurs only 500 miles west of here in El Paso, so seems adaptable and is available at many succulent nurseries.  

I believe I have seen Pachycereus planted in a few yards around here.  They grow faster, but I do not believe they are as cold hardy, but I could be wrong.  Good luck with the saguaro.

[jimmyt]

@Austinpalm  I fear the loss of the larger saguaros due to their scarcity and cost.  I figured the smaller would be an ok sacrifice of them all. My cacti be is on a slight slope in at least 1/2 day sun.  The soil depth is limited to just several inches due to underlying bedrock. It was part of my yard where the grass would not grow because it stays so dry.? Great for a cacti bed.  I am gonna try barrel cacti next.  I have tried the Neobuxbaumia without success. There is a veterinarian office near me with some impressive cacti in it. It is where I drew my aspirations. I will get some new photos of it to show.  I am also working on growing Ocotillo.

jimmyt

[Austinpalm]

Ocotillo can also be found around here sparingly.  Like saguaro, it needs a high dry location with plenty of sun. 

Conversion of the dead spot in your yard to a cactus bed seems to have worked well for you.  Congrats!

[RyManUtah]

23 minutes ago, jimmyt said:

@Austinpalm  I fear the loss of the larger saguaros due to their scarcity and cost.  I figured the smaller would be an ok sacrifice of them all. My cacti be is on a slight slope in at least 1/2 day sun.  The soil depth is limited to just several inches due to underlying bedrock. It was part of my yard where the grass would not grow because it stays so dry.? Great for a cacti bed.  I am gonna try barrel cacti next.  I have tried the Neobuxbaumia without success. There is a veterinarian office near me with some impressive cacti in it. It is where I drew my aspirations. I will get some new photos of it to show.  I am also working on growing Ocotillo.

jimmyt

Sounds like a fantastic project! My goal the next few years is to have zero grass out front. Some columnar, some spreading, a Joshua tree, and a few stately palms over everything. I also want to get some ocotillo and barrel. I may opt for the red spined barrels that are native to the area, because it would essentially be impossible to kill one. 

[RyManUtah]

1 hour ago, necturus said:

It looks like a Trichocereus terscheckii to me, but it could be one of the smaller hybrids.  Doesn't look like a cardon or saguaro.

I was thinking hybrid as well. It’s very deep, Vibrant green. The spines are a lot darker than any tersheckkii I’ve seen. I’m not very good at identifying non native cacti, though. 

[necturus]

My Neo got damaged in the last bad freeze here in Houston but survived and is trying to grow out of the damage. Given my experience, I am surprised how unblemished the ones at Peckerwood are. I have two small saguaros here in a cactus mound that haven't done anything the last couple years. I am just waiting for them to croak.

I bought a cardon (Pachycereus pringlei) some years ago in Austin right after a bad freeze. It was a few feet tall, priced well and looked good. I brought it home and a few weeks later the top turned brown. The discoloration spread and eventually it was clear that it had been frozen. I don't know how cold they got, but I'm guessing 18? I bought another one the next year and it survived the last bad freeze outside with just a frost cloth on top. I wouldn't try it anywhere colder than here.

[Silas_Sancona]

40 minutes ago, RyManUtah said:

I was thinking hybrid as well. It’s very deep, Vibrant green. The spines are a lot darker than any tersheckkii I’ve seen. I’m not very good at identifying non native cacti, though. 

Been mulling over what this could be also.. Looking at all 22 Echinopsis/ Trichocereus hybrids i have, none look like this. Spines tend to be shorter, even on a pair of plants that look like T. tersheckii ..but were sold to me as a standard Echinop./ Tricho. candicans. Might be a cross, but definitely not a pure candicans. Yours looks more like a Saguaro, but not completely sold on that.

If it is a Tricho hybrid, at that size, it should start trying to offset fairly soon. Should also try to flower also.

Doesn't look like any Cardon at that size i have seen here but again, jury is out.

Regardless, going to snap a picture and try and see what some of the cacti gurus i know in Tucson think when i head down there for a final visit ( while in AZ ) in a couple weeks..

As far as Ocotillo, other Fouquieria species like diguetii, and macdougalii can take temps down to 20F ( or lower ) when larger. Boojums are also reported to take cold down to about 19-20F when bigger as well.  Only problem w/ Boo-j's is their growth cycle generally occurs during the cooler months, so that could get fried in a cold spell..  While most think Ocotillo and other Fouqs. are generally slow growers.. give them more water in the summer when it is hot, and they put on size pretty quick..   And never buy bare rooted plants... only seed-grown if you want them to succeed.

[jimmyt]

@RyManUtah  I do have a small Joshua tree that I started from seed.  Maybe a foot and half tall now.  Other Yuccas too that were seed started.  I had an ocotillo but it finally gave out after several years of languishing.  There are several Dasylirions that are doing well,  a ponytail palm that tolerates but does not flourish due to the occasional hard freeze.   I do occasionally cover the ponytail palm. Most of these specimens are not readily available around my neck of the woods.  So some are bought online and others are seed raised.

not intending to divert from the original post but I have some pics of a local veterinarian's office.  He is apparently a cacti/succulent lover and has put in and nurtured an awesome cacti bed for these parts.  I know that it has been there for nearly 20 years from my sightings.  He used to cover the columnar cacti and had pipe supports built into the ground but I think the ocotillo has gotten so tall that he can no longer cover the tall stuff.  Anyway look at the pics and ID what you can.  Zoom in and look at what all is there.  Draw some inspiration from them.  I think that it is a fantastic cacti bed for a borderline 8a/8b zone.  One pic is from the median of the street.  The columnar cacti are at least 8-10 ft and the ocotillo is about 15 ft.

[Austinpalm]

Impressive!  That is near Waco?

[jimmyt]

Northside, Bellmead, just  a couple blocks west of IH-35

[RyManUtah]

Here’s some close ups shade vs sun. No color filtering.

@Silas_Sancona If it comes up in Tucson, the videos are a little more clear than the stills for characteristics
 

[RyManUtah]

I hope I see an offshoot soon. Saguaros are magnificent, but not hardy here long term. If it ends up as that, I will eventually have to gift it to a Warmer winter gardener 

[RyManUtah]

4 hours ago, jimmyt said:

@RyManUtah  I do have a small Joshua tree that I started from seed.  Maybe a foot and half tall now.  Other Yuccas too that were seed started.  I had an ocotillo but it finally gave out after several years of languishing.  There are several Dasylirions that are doing well,  a ponytail palm that tolerates but does not flourish due to the occasional hard freeze.   I do occasionally cover the ponytail palm. Most of these specimens are not readily available around my neck of the woods.  So some are bought online and others are seed raised.

not intending to divert from the original post but I have some pics of a local veterinarian's office.  He is apparently a cacti/succulent lover and has put in and nurtured an awesome cacti bed for these parts.  I know that it has been there for nearly 20 years from my sightings.  He used to cover the columnar cacti and had pipe supports built into the ground but I think the ocotillo has gotten so tall that he can no longer cover the tall stuff.  Anyway look at the pics and ID what you can.  Zoom in and look at what all is there.  Draw some inspiration from them.  I think that it is a fantastic cacti bed for a borderline 8a/8b zone.  One pic is from the median of the street.  The columnar cacti are at least 8-10 ft and the ocotillo is about 15 ft.

Outstanding! Looks very desert Southwest 

[Silas_Sancona]

6 hours ago, jimmyt said:

@RyManUtah  I do have a small Joshua tree that I started from seed.  Maybe a foot and half tall now.  Other Yuccas too that were seed started.  I had an ocotillo but it finally gave out after several years of languishing.  There are several Dasylirions that are doing well,  a ponytail palm that tolerates but does not flourish due to the occasional hard freeze.   I do occasionally cover the ponytail palm. Most of these specimens are not readily available around my neck of the woods.  So some are bought online and others are seed raised.

not intending to divert from the original post but I have some pics of a local veterinarian's office.  He is apparently a cacti/succulent lover and has put in and nurtured an awesome cacti bed for these parts.  I know that it has been there for nearly 20 years from my sightings.  He used to cover the columnar cacti and had pipe supports built into the ground but I think the ocotillo has gotten so tall that he can no longer cover the tall stuff.  Anyway look at the pics and ID what you can.  Zoom in and look at what all is there.  Draw some inspiration from them.  I think that it is a fantastic cacti bed for a borderline 8a/8b zone.  One pic is from the median of the street.  The columnar cacti are at least 8-10 ft and the ocotillo is about 15 ft.

Minus the Agave americana, thats a nice display Jimmy.. See numerous, good sized Echinocereus clumps scattered throughout also.

[jimmyt]

Wish I could claim it as mine.  But it does give me hope that I can grow similar here.   I agree that the Agave could have been left out.  Those monster take over and run all over the place.  There is a very large Echinocactus in the middle under the cholla seen in the street view.  We dont see those that size normally in B.F. Texas!  This veterinarian has got a passion for these cacti for sure.

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, jimmyt said:

Wish I could claim it as mine.  But it does give me hope that I can grow similar here.   I agree that the Agave could have been left out.  Those monster take over and run all over the place.  There is a very large Echinocactus in the middle under the cholla seen in the street view.  We dont see those that size normally in B.F. Texas!  This veterinarian has got a passion for these cacti for sure.

Oh i hear ya.. maybe i should have said nice find, lol.. anyway, definitely inspirational, especially in places where you wouldn't anticipate that many species growing together..  Just goes to prove what a little planning and casual tlc can do. That Ocotillo in the background is quite impressive. Looks almost as big as some located around my neighborhood.

Agree, would consider A. americana a weed myself.. and trying to remove ..or even keep a neglected clump in check?  I prefer keeping my skin intact. Add to this they're supposedly a magnet for Agave Weevils, at least here.. and when they rot after being damaged ( let alone serve as a spring board for spreading those things to other susceptible Agave sp ).. might as well just set that section of a yard ablaze and start again from scorched earth. I'd bet the americana would emerge from the ashes, laughing at you the whole time. So many other great Agaves available to check out anyway.

[Austinpalm]

On 2/23/2020 at 2:37 PM, jimmyt said:

Northside, Bellmead, just  a couple blocks west of IH-35

Great setup there. Is there any candelila (Euphorbia antisyphilitica) in that planting? It is a good native succulent that seems very cold hardy when planted high and dry with lots of sun.  I am able to keep it alive here in Austin when properly sited. Another cold hardy cactus that I like is Ferocactus hamatacanthus.  It is native to almost all of Texas west of the Pecos River as well as a small strip along the Rio Grande to the Gulf of Mexico.  A big one is 18-inches tall, so they do not get as big as the other Ferocactus, but they handle our cold wet winters without much problem.

[jimmyt]

2 hours ago, Austinpalm said:

Great setup there. Is there any candelila (Euphorbia antisyphilitica) in that planting? It is a good native succulent that seems very cold hardy when planted high and dry with lots of sun.  I am able to keep it alive here in Austin when properly sited. Another cold hardy cactus that I like is Ferocactus hamatacanthus.  It is native to almost all of Texas west of the Pecos River as well as a small strip along the Rio Grande to the Gulf of Mexico.  A big one is 18-inches tall, so they do not get as big as the other Ferocactus, but they handle our cold wet winters without much problem.

I did not see any Euphorbia in the display.  I had lots of problem concentrating when I look at this though.  Blows my tiny mind! 

[Silas_Sancona]

5 minutes ago, jimmyt said:

I did not see any Euphorbia in the display.  I had lots of problem concentrating when I look at this though.  Blows my tiny mind! 

Clump of low, bluish green, Grassy / Reedy - looking plant, in front of the trunking Opuntia and Columnar cacti to the right in pics #1-2. Looks like Candelila ( Euphorb. antisyph. ) to me..

[jimmyt]

Ok you two!  You have now forced me to go back for confirmatory closeup photos of the mystery "reed-like" plant in the photos.  My ignorance in on the line here!  Wait for the follow up......  

[Austinpalm]

2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Clump of low, bluish green, Grassy / Reedy - looking plant, in front of the trunking Opuntia and Columnar cacti to the right in pics #1-2. Looks like Candelila ( Euphorb. antisyph. ) to me..

I think you are right.  I looked at it initially, but thought no for some reason.  

 

[Silas_Sancona]

14 minutes ago, Austinpalm said:

I think you are right.  I looked at it initially, but thought no for some reason.  

 

Very common in landscapes around town out here.. Looks like there may be more clumps of it scattered in the display  in the last picture.. For some reason, i could have sworn i have seen a standard sized, and shorter sized version of standard Candelilla offered in nurseries..

Yes Jimmy, lol this appears to be a case for some in-depth detective work. Looks like there's all sorts of interesting small stuff that needs to be well investigated.

[RyManUtah]

Excited, but patiently waiting for close up 

[jimmyt]

I'm on it like McGruff!   Give me time to assemble the CSI team!  Likely a weekend resolution as it is too dark by the time I get by there after work.  Hold tight boys..........  Hope the dont call the police on me for tresspassing.    I will take my parole officer with me!  

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, jimmyt said:

I'm on it like McGruff!   Give me time to assemble the CSI team!  Likely a weekend resolution as it is too dark by the time I get by there after work.  Hold tight boys..........  Hope the dont call the police on me for tresspassing.    I will take my parole officer with me!  

You could always try to reach out and see if you can get in touch w/ the person at the Vet Clinic who developed the garden.. Can't imagine you'd get cuffed and send to the slammer ( or pepper sprayed ) for taking some pictures.. Certainly would hope not, lol

[jimmyt]

Rough side of town.   Owners wont mind as long as you don't steal, break in, or dig them up!

[jimmyt]

Ok a little closer up now..... The big golden barrel is larger than a medicine ball! 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

8 minutes ago, jimmyt said:

Ok a little closer up now..... The big golden barrel is larger than a medicine ball! 

 

Very cool... Lotz'a goodies tucked away in there among more cool stuff. Gold Barrels look perfect. See he has included adaptable native Selaginella in w/ smaller cacti on the Limestone slab.. Guess i'll have to add obtaining such pieces of rock for my own display when visiting Texas in the future.  Excellent detective work Jimmy ..

[jimmyt]

The pipe sticking up out of the ground in the 4th pic down.  Is the mount the Vet used to screw in more pipe extensions to make a canopy for putting blankets over the cacti in winter back in the day(when they were smaller).

[RyManUtah]

They’re beautiful! 

[RyManUtah]

I got another one. “5G Outdoor cactus, $23. 

 

picked up this Tubac also, labeled the same, since it was a good price 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

9 minutes ago, RyManUtah said:

I got another one. “5G Outdoor cactus, $23. 

 

picked up this Tubac also, labeled the same, since it was a good price 

 

Nice choices. That one is definitely a Trichocereus and is big enough that it should throw a flower or two, and probably start producing offsets this year. From the looks of it, at least until it flowers, looks like an Argentine Giant ( Echinopsis/Trichocereus candicans ) to my eye. Now you need to find a pair of Agave utahensis var. eborispina for the desert garden

[RyManUtah]

12 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Nice choices. That one is definitely a Trichocereus and is big enough that it should throw a flower or two, and probably start producing offsets this year. From the looks of it, at least until it flowers, looks like an Argentine Giant ( Echinopsis/Trichocereus candicans ) to my eye.

Thank you! I’m excited. I just looked up your suggested ID and now I’m even more excited!! One day I want to come across a terscheckii also. Would make a great centerpiece somewhere. 
Can offshoots be cut and rooted like a prickly pear pad? 
 

12 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Now you need to find a pair of Agave utahensis var. eborispina for the desert garden

I need to get a few agaves for sure! I want some little ones in my pre-existing rocks, definitely. Larger ones when I start removing sections of grass. 
Is that a different variety than a ‘regular’ Agave utahensis? I ask because I can get the latter easily. Grab one when a raw desert lot goes up for construction haha.