Is it okay to plant an areca palm in a tight spot near a cement wall and driveway?

[PhilippineExpat]

My property has a cement wall around it and I just planted an areca palm in one of the corners. Here is a picture of its location: https://i.imgur.com/MqJ0R8C.jpg. The light brown spot in the bottom right corner of the pic is my driveway.

The areca is about one foot from both walls and 1 foot from my ribbon driveway (made of cement). I'm aware areca palms grow in clumps and can get pretty big. My hope is the concrete walls and driveway will keep the clump under control. However, now I'm worried the areca's roots will cause damage to the foundation of the wall, or maybe the clump will grow under my ribbon driveway and lift it up. Are those valid concerns or am I safe? It's worth noting I live in the Philippines so it'll be able to grow pretty well.

[Merlyn]

Generally speaking palm roots are not very invasive or damaging to structures.  The roots are soft, and individual roots are pretty small diameter.  They also grow out from the root ball at their mature diameter, so they don't expand like oak roots and other trees.  Oak roots and many other tree roots are really bad because they expand in diameter after they grow.  An oak root may grow into a driveway or foundation crack at 1/8" diameter, but it will rapidly try to grow to 3-4" diameter.  

If the cluster does grow too large in one direction you can always use a shovel or reciprocating saw to slice off part of the cluster.  There's a risk of fungal infection if you do this, but it would keep the clump small.  I had a 3 foot diameter cluster of Dypis Lutescens ("Areca palm") that I sliced in half with a reciprocating saw.  I took the two halves and planted them separately, they are both growing fine.

[DoomsDave]

@PhilippineExpat! Welcome!

I agree with what @Merlyn2220 says close to 100%, but add that maybe you shouldn't have planted that Dypsis lutescens in that small of a spot. They usually make a lot of trunks, like 12+ and will take up space. Sort of like one cat in your lap, versus a dozen. The first is great, the last is just too many. You can do as Merlynn says, but you might find it more work than you bargained for. Since you are in the Philippines, I think that areca might become a monster, in fact.

I'd plant a single-trunk palm in that spot if I could (or something that's a lot smaller and skinnier) and move the areca somewhere its full size won't become a problem. They're SO pretty when well-grown, I hate to see them butchered which I'm afraid you might find yourself doing. There's other Dypsis that stay a lot smaller like D. psammophila, though I suspect it might be hard to get.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Also see my PM (Private message).

dave

[Merlyn]

4 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Sort of like one cat in your lap, versus a dozen. The first is great, the last is just too many.

Whaaaaaat?  Blasphemy!  Well...er...a dozen cats is a lot of claws.  Maybe I agree after all! 

As DoomsDave said, it might fit but it might be a maintenance hassle.  I like the Dypsis Pembana for small spots.  It's clustering but not "profusely clustering" and grows tall pretty quick in FL.  But if you do decide to leave it there, you'll probably need to prune off the new trunks a couple of times per year to keep it from going hog-wild. 

I was more thinking about the roots than the horizontal space, because as they get bigger Dypsis Lutescens like to push out horizontally quite a bit.  This photo shows the spread, which might cause problems with it trying to push over your walls...

 

[NOT A TA]

Welcome @PhilippineExpat!

As others mentioned you'll really have to keep on top of trimming or you'll have a huge clump. I'd move it now. They're not easy to remove (cut down) once they become a big clump. This one was about the size of yours when I got it, it would not fit in your spot now.

[DoomsDave]

If push comes to shove, and  you have to cut it down later, Dypsis lutescens makes great firewood.

[Palmfarmer]

Sorry to kind of hijack the thread a little i planted mine in a northfaceing wall recently with mostly shade. How many years will it take for me to get some mature ones with a proper trunk like shown in the photo above? 

[PhilippineExpat]

Wow thanks for the replies everyone! Our garden is already jam packed lol so finding a new spot may be a bit of a challenge. I think I will take all of your advice, though, and try to move it to a different spot. I agree it's too pretty to remove completely. I'll see if I can convince my wife to let me replace it with one of our plants in a more prime spot.

[PhilippineExpat]

UPDATE: Thanks again for the replies everyone! I managed to convince my wife to let me replace our delonix regia cutting (we don't have the room for a full grown one anyways) with the areca palm. The areca is now in a much roomier spot. Now that it's in its final place, what do you all suggest for fertilizer? I have some muriate of potash I can give it and I also plan to feed it urine on a regular basis once it's settled in. Should I give it the muriate? Or something else?

[Palmfarmer]

is your planted in mostly shade as well? 

2 minutes ago, PhilippineExpat said:

UPDATE: Thanks again for the replies everyone! I managed to convince my wife to let me replace our delonix regia cutting (we don't have the room for a full grown one anyways) with the areca palm. The areca is now in a much roomier spot. Now that it's in its final place, what do you all suggest for fertilizer? I have some muriate of potash I can give it and I also plan to feed it urine on a regular basis once it's settled in. Should I give it the muriate? Or something else?

 

[Merlyn]

The best fertilizer will depend on your soil type and local conditions.  For example, FL soils can be almost pure sand (my SE corner) or rich organic (the W side of my lot).  South FL can be alkaline sand, so the fertilizer there will need to be a bit different.  A good palm mix fertilizer is usually a good bet, something like an 8-4-8 timed release nitrogen, or a more expensive one like Osmocote or Nutricote (15-9-12 and 18-6-8).  Palms usually need a fertilizer with micronutrients like Iron, Magnesium, Boron, Manganese, Copper and Zinc. 

Here's a good writeup for FL sandy soils, but if your soil is rich or heavy clay you'd want a different formulation.  I don't know anything about fertilizers for clay soils, hopefully someone else can chime in here:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/EP/EP26100.pdf

Edited February 14, 2020 by Merlyn2220

[PhilippineExpat]

48 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

is your planted in mostly shade as well? 

 

Nope, its new spot is full sun. I've seen a lot of them here getting blasted by the sun. That said, I am a total noob to palms. My only other one is a bottle palm for now.

[PhilippineExpat]

Just now, Merlyn2220 said:

The best fertilizer will depend on your soil type and local conditions.  For example, FL soils can be almost pure sand (my SE corner) or rich organic (the W side of my lot).  South FL can be alkaline sand, so the fertilizer there will need to be a bit different.  A good palm mix fertilizer is usually a good bet, something like an 8-4-8 timed release nitrogen, or a more expensive one like Osmocote or Nutricote (15-9-12 and 18-6-8).  Palms usually need a fertilizer with micronutrients like Iron, Magnesium, Boron, Manganese, Copper and Zinc.  Here's a good writeup for FL sandy soils, but if your soil is rich or heavy clay you'd want a different formulation:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/EP/EP26100.pdf

Thanks for this! I'll check it out. Fortunately our soil isn't sandy. Sounds like I should give my palm some vermicast.

[Steve Mac]

@Palmfarmer what you have there looks to me to be about two dozen seeds sprouted and packed together.

They will all eventually want to make a dozen of their own stems each.

I think that they need to be thinned down to individual plants and potted separately.

They are sold over here, like that to be used temporarily as a pretty indoor pot plant. 

[GottmitAlex]

15 hours ago, gtsteve said:

@Palmfarmer what you have there looks to me to be about two dozen seeds sprouted and packed together.

They will all eventually want to make a dozen of their own stems each.

I think that they need to be thinned down to individual plants and potted separately.

They are sold over here, like that to be used temporarily as a pretty indoor pot plant. 

This. Cull the herd.

 

[Palmfarmer]

18 hours ago, gtsteve said:

@Palmfarmer what you have there looks to me to be about two dozen seeds sprouted and packed together.

They will all eventually want to make a dozen of their own stems each.

I think that they need to be thinned down to individual plants and potted separately.

They are sold over here, like that to be used temporarily as a pretty indoor pot plant. 

mine is a dypsis i did not read the title and just saw the photos. Anyways, yes i am aware of that. What my plan is. is to let that clump of palms settle then use a garden scisscor and cut down a majority of them, will this not work good?

[GottmitAlex]

Dont know about a single Dypsis l... however,if there are many bunched up, it may turn out to be a problem. I had 5 Washingtonia filibustas. Had to kill 'em off.  First we started breaking the cement/pavement in order to accommodate their huge trunk bowl, then the trimming.  But the larger they got, the more cement they cracked. We left the largest trunk of the fili's as a tiki. But here is a pic of what began to happen, even after we cut cement in order to fit the base of its trunk:

(Zoom in the first photo to appreciate its damage)

Btw, my foot measurement is 12". 

Some palms can be pavement crackers.

 

Eta: I would gladly do whatever it takes for a self cleaning palm. But a pavement-cracker and perpetual trimming? Thanks a lot but no thanks. 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by GottmitAlex

[NOT A TA]

30 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

What my plan is. is to let that clump of palms settle then use a garden scisscor and cut down a majority of them, will this not work good?

It will not work good, because you won't eliminate the apical meristem and the ones you cut off will pop new spears back up within days. You simply can't cut low enough.

That needs to be removed, cut in half and then planted a MINIMUM of 3' from the structure. 4-5 feet would be better. Part of the reason for that is that they shed a lot of debris as they get older and you'll need to get behind the plant to remove the dropped fronds, old fruit stalks, and keep trimming away suckers. If you don't maintain it on all sides it'll get ugly quick and you'll create a home for critters to live in.

While we normally post pretty pictures of our well maintained specimens it can very quickly look like this if ignored for a time and they're a real pain to clean out when they get older if you don't keep up with them.

[Stevetoad]

58 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

mine is a dypsis i did not read the title and just saw the photos. Anyways, yes i am aware of that. What my plan is. is to let that clump of palms settle then use a garden scisscor and cut down a majority of them, will this not work good?

I do this. These come in a pot with about a million separate plants. If you take the time to separate them they look nicer. No problem at all planting them in tight areas. Here’s one of mine kept to 2 trunks in a 2 foot wide spot. I have another one I keep to about 8 trunks and another that never suckered and is a solitary. Sorry for the bad pic but it’s night time. 

[Steve Mac]

2 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

"What my plan is. is to let that clump of palms settle then use a garden scisscor and cut down a majority of them, will this not work good?"

Yes, mate you could do that but I think that it will be more work in the long term. Thinning now will lessen your workload later.

Consider all of those responses before mine, they are all right on the money. 

There is no right and wrong way but you will be taking the road less traveled.

But there is more than one way to skin a cat and have you seen all of those yummy recipes? :-) 

[Palmfarmer]

Ok i Will do that then, do you mean digging the whole thing up and slicing like a pizza before putting it down again? 

[Steve Mac]

Dig them all up again yes. Not so much, slice like a pizza but break apart gently from the outside with your fingers so that you only have about six or less thick

and spread them along your wall for a 2 or 3 feet, or spread them around more places. or some variation of that.

I know that they look good like they are now, and thinned out it will not be so impressive now, but less work in the long run.

[Stevetoad]

3 hours ago, gtsteve said:

Dig them all up again yes. Not so much, slice like a pizza but break apart gently from the outside with your fingers so that you only have about six or less thick

and spread them along your wall for a 2 or 3 feet, or spread them around more places. or some variation of that.

I know that they look good like they are now, and thinned out it will not be so impressive now, but less work in the long run.

This is what I do too. To make it easier pick the strongest plants of the group and rip the smaller ones out. I like separating them down to individual plants. Individuals don’t sucker that much but if you have a bunch of individual plants clumped together you’ll end up with a congested group. 

[Palmfarmer]

does not exactly look impressive, but lets hope it roots and grows for the years to come. How many years does it take for them to become like the mature ones posted in this thread? 10 years +? These are hardy to -4 celcius as i understood right?

Edited February 16, 2020 by Palmfarmer

[Stevetoad]

1 hour ago, Palmfarmer said:

does not exactly look impressive, but lets hope it roots and grows for the years to come. How many years does it take for them to become like the mature ones posted in this thread? 10 years +? These are hardy to -4 celcius as i understood right?

Mine were that size about 6 years ago and now are 12 feet tall. I don’t know about -4. Mine burn at -1. They might live through -4 but would completely defoliate. 

[Palmfarmer]

ok a few nights of -1 one is allways the norm here. this year coldest temprature was -3, but i think it was measured from the airport so more realsticly maybe 2 or 1 below. it will be very easy to give them protection with some christmaslights so i will probably run christmaslights and wrap it through the worst of winter. 

[Steve Mac]

It looks good. :-)

[chinandega81]

How are your arecas doing a year later?