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Palmfarmer

Will this sudden change in Climate put a palm into shock?

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Palmfarmer

Hey everyone, as spring is approaching rapidly i will soon order some palms from Veracruz Mexico a place that is considerably warmer then here in Durango where I live.

I plan on Buying a Livestona Chinensis, Butia uknown hybrid and a 2 meter big bismarck in mid march or so.

However i noticed when i tried to plant out a smaller bismarckia in the winter from Veracruz(yes i know it was a stupid idea) It soon started going into severe shock even though i did things after the book it died within days. It never went out of the parameters that should damage the palm, but the sudden contrast in climate is what damaged it i Believe. So the question is do you think i will be fine this time around since it is a lot warmer here now during spring to order these palms from Veracruze? Here is the difference in Climate between Durango and Veracruz in the period i plan to plant them approximently 

 

 

Veracruz: 

Screenshot 2020-02-08 at 15.14.08.png

Durango:

Screenshot 2020-02-08 at 15.13.28.png

Edited by Palmfarmer

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Shiveringtropicals

I'm not an expert on these species (or any for that matter) but i think they will still suffer some shock.

If i'm reading the charts correctly then daytime temperatures are fine going from 28 to 24 degrees C but the nights go from 22 average to 4 degrees and even to 1 on the 13th.

That's like going from steady room temperature to almost freezing overnight.

I wouldn't risk it myself especially if they are expensive palms. I could be wrong though just my 2 cents. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@Palmfarmer Bizzies are notorious for being root sensitive and any kind of breaking or cutting does them in. Not saying that I'd what happened but they are pretty tough palms minus there roots. Hopefully your next one lasts much longer!! 

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Silas_Sancona
52 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@Palmfarmer Bizzies are notorious for being root sensitive and any kind of breaking or cutting does them in. Not saying that I'd what happened but they are pretty tough palms minus there roots. Hopefully your next one lasts much longer!! 

^ Agree w this 100%.. If you pursue the Bismarck, be sure it has been grown in the container, and had not tried to root into the ground.  Overall, yea, i might wait just a couple weeks longer until your night time temps are a little warmer..

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Palmfarmer

Thanks guys, What is the sweetspot like 10 celcius at night? I rather wait then because they Will cost some Money for sure. How is the price by the way around 300 USD for a pretty fat two meter Bismarck? 

10 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

^ Agree w this 100%.. If you pursue the Bismarck, be sure it has been grown in the container, and had not tried to root into the ground.  Overall, yea, i might wait just a couple weeks longer until your night time temps are a little warmer..

Yes i know, the roots Are really sensitive. How long Will it usually take for a Bismarck to get properly rooted and established 6 months? 

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Silas_Sancona
5 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

Thanks guys, What is the sweetspot like 10 celcius at night? I rather wait then because they Will cost some Money for sure. How is the price by the way around 300 USD for a pretty fat two meter Bismarck? 

Yes i know, the roots Are really sensitive. How long Will it usually take for a Bismarck to get properly rooted and established 6 months? 

Tough to say, others here are likely a better judge of that than me  but if planted by say late April, May.. you'll get some growth/ roots will start spreading out the rest of the year, especially once your Monsoon season sets in the Summer. Overall though, most plants take about a year to really get settled in once planted, maybe a bit longer for really big stuff.

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Merlyn2220

I planted three small Bismarcks from 3g and 1g pots, and they exploded with new growth immediately.  These were partially pot bound, and I was super careful not to damage any roots when planting them.  Most of my palm plantings take ~3 months to really settle in and start growing normally.  If they are transplants (instead of from a pot) it's more like 6 months before they really start going. 

Around here they've started using trunking Bizzies for highway landscaping, and I haven't noticed any significant declines/deaths.  Either they are experts at planting Bizzies, or they really aren't as delicate as everyone thinks.  Most of the plantings are in spring/summer when temps here are normally 80+ degrees (25C or higher) during the day.

Regarding the price, local nurseries here sell a 15g potted Bismarck with no trunk for about $150.  Bigger ones can vary, but a nursery near my house has a ~2m trunk one for $900 plus installation.  If I found a 2m one for $300 around here I'd buy it immediately, and figure out a place to plant it later!  :D 

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Palmfarmer
15 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I planted three small Bismarcks from 3g and 1g pots, and they exploded with new growth immediately.  These were partially pot bound, and I was super careful not to damage any roots when planting them.  Most of my palm plantings take ~3 months to really settle in and start growing normally.  If they are transplants (instead of from a pot) it's more like 6 months before they really start going. 

Around here they've started using trunking Bizzies for highway landscaping, and I haven't noticed any significant declines/deaths.  Either they are experts at planting Bizzies, or they really aren't as delicate as everyone thinks.  Most of the plantings are in spring/summer when temps here are normally 80+ degrees (25C or higher) during the day.

Regarding the price, local nurseries here sell a 15g potted Bismarck with no trunk for about $150.  Bigger ones can vary, but a nursery near my house has a ~2m trunk one for $900 plus installation.  If I found a 2m one for $300 around here I'd buy it immediately, and figure out a place to plant it later!  :D 

it was not 2 meters with trunk, it was measured to the leaftops. Anyways how about some of the more cold hardy palms i listed. Would a Mulepalm/Butia hybrid do fine with such fast changes in tempratures or a Livestona Chinensis? 

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GottmitAlex
On 2/8/2020 at 1:11 PM, Palmfarmer said:

Hey everyone, as spring is approaching rapidly i will soon order some palms from Veracruz Mexico a place that is considerably warmer then here in Durango where I live.

I plan on Buying a Livestona Chinensis, Butia uknown hybrid and a 2 meter big bismarck in mid march or so.

However i noticed when i tried to plant out a smaller bismarckia in the winter from Veracruz(yes i know it was a stupid idea) It soon started going into severe shock even though i did things after the book it died within days. It never went out of the parameters that should damage the palm, but the sudden contrast in climate is what damaged it i Believe. So the question is do you think i will be fine this time around since it is a lot warmer here now during spring to order these palms from Veracruze? Here is the difference in Climate between Durango and Veracruz in the period i plan to plant them approximently 

 

 

Veracruz: 

Screenshot 2020-02-08 at 15.14.08.png

Durango:

Screenshot 2020-02-08 at 15.13.28.png

Alright. I gotta ask.

When you cite Veracruz weather averages, what city in that State are you referencing? Same applies with Durango. 

Thanks.

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Palmfarmer
2 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Alright. I gotta ask.

When you cite Veracruz weather averages, what city in that State are you referencing? Same applies with Durango. 

Thanks.

The city of Veracruz and Victoria de Durango/Durango city. 

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GottmitAlex
1 hour ago, Palmfarmer said:

The city of Veracruz and Victoria de Durango/Durango city. 

It seems you do get below 0C. (In Durango city proper)?

 

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Palmfarmer
5 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

It seems you do get below 0C. (In Durango city proper)?

 

yes it happens sometimes in winter, but only in the nighttime, the dry air also helps a lot with not harming certain palms i think. 

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Merlyn2220
8 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

it was not 2 meters with trunk, it was measured to the leaftops. Anyways how about some of the more cold hardy palms i listed. Would a Mulepalm/Butia hybrid do fine with such fast changes in tempratures or a Livestona Chinensis? 

Ah that makes a big difference.  A 2 meter total height Bismarck around here would be about $175 at big box stores, usually in a 15 gallon pot.  Sometimes they are a lot smaller at that price, since they sell by pot size instead of plant size.

Personally, I'd wait a few weeks until the night temps are towards the 7-10C range.  Planting any of those when night temps go towards freezing is probably a bad idea.  L. Chinensis and Mules are definitely tougher than Bismarcks, especially where planting/transplanting are concerned.  If the palms you were looking at were cheap I might plant one now, but there's a reasonable chance you'd just be throwing away $$ on any of those three.

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Palmfarmer
11 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Ah that makes a big difference.  A 2 meter total height Bismarck around here would be about $175 at big box stores, usually in a 15 gallon pot.  Sometimes they are a lot smaller at that price, since they sell by pot size instead of plant size.

Personally, I'd wait a few weeks until the night temps are towards the 7-10C range.  Planting any of those when night temps go towards freezing is probably a bad idea.  L. Chinensis and Mules are definitely tougher than Bismarcks, especially where planting/transplanting are concerned.  If the palms you were looking at were cheap I might plant one now, but there's a reasonable chance you'd just be throwing away $$ on any of those three.

i see,  I have planted some palms in the ground this winter but they where from local nurseries and they seem to do good and are putting out growth allready despite the cold nights. However those palms are used to our cold nights so its probably completly different.  the species was queens and robelinis. bad thing is that the nurseries for the most part have just the normal palms like CIPD, True date, Washingtonias queens etc and the bit more "rare" stuff are allways too tropical for our climate. 

Edited by Palmfarmer

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sonoranfans

Bismarckia dont like a wet cold, the roots are inactive and dont like to be continually wet.  In winter the soil stays wet much longer, it would seem to be a high risk to plant one in winter, especially if your drainage is not so good.  I suspect root shock and its tricky as the roots dont want to be continually wet but arent established and active so they will dessicate in dry soil and rot in wet soil.  Plant when soil temps hit 60-65F and ensure good drainage if you want good growth.

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NorCalKing

Those overnight temp swings...WOW!

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