What palm would you want in zone 9B?

[Whiplash87]

I live in Central California and I'm looking for a beautiful, either solitary palm or trio. Preferably self cleaning. We rarely get below 32 degrees here. I have Areca palms starting to get some size. I do love Christmas tree palms but I don't believe they'll thrive or survive. Have my eye on lipstick and foxtail palms. Just wondering what others would grow here. So may options out there. Not a fan of queen/king palms. Everyone has queen/ mexican fan palms here. The palm will be around a pool and next to a high wood fence so it will have a slight temperature buffer. Thanks in Advance!

[Stevetoad]

32 minutes ago, Whiplash87 said:

I live in Central California and I'm looking for a beautiful, either solitary palm or trio. Preferably self cleaning. We rarely get below 32 degrees here. I have Areca palms starting to get some size. I do love Christmas tree palms but I don't believe they'll thrive or survive. Have my eye on lipstick and foxtail palms. Just wondering what others would grow here. So may options out there. Not a fan of queen/king palms. Everyone has queen/ mexican fan palms here. The palm will be around a pool and next to a high wood fence so it will have a slight temperature buffer. Thanks in Advance!

christmas and lipsticks wont live. Foxtail is should but might be tough. I grow them here in a 10a climate in san diego.  Look into the Archontophoenix (king Palm) family. Some dypsis will do well to like Dypsis decipiens, decaryi, baronii, onilahensis ect.  Also fan palms like Sabal causarium and bizmarckia will make a huge statement. Its important to know your low temps too. Id get a weather station and make sure you know what your up against. The difference between 32 and 28 can be huge as well as the duration. Lots of palms can take 32 for an hour but totally fry at 32 for 4 hours. Same goes with how many nights get to freezing. One night can be fine but if you get a week of freezing nights you can wipe out your garden.  

[PalmatierMeg]

Beccariophoenix alfredii (also fenestralis & madagascariensis) resembles a coconut and is hardy down to the mid-20s. Will Rhopalostylis spp grow in Central Cali? Many large Dypsis spp grow better in mediterranean climates than here in FL. What about the Howeas? If you've dismissed palmate palms as unworthy of your attention, please reconsider.

[Xenon]

Sounds like Kentiopsis oliviformis is your palm

[Silas_Sancona]

Perhaps a stretch there.. but if it were me,  X FoxyLady ( Veitchia X Wodyetia cross ) would be near/ at the top of possible candidates.. though be aware,  they're very hard to find in CA atm..

Xenon's suggestion of Kentiopsis oliviformis is another very attractive, yet rarely seen crown shafted palm.  While not crown shafted, can see Majestys doing ok in Modesto, though they might need some shade since it can get pretty hot there. Also like alot of water/ fertilizer..

If you have room, might even add Roystonea ( royal palm ) to the list of possibilities.. tender to cold when young though. If they can survive here in Phoenix, no reason they can't in Modesto.. Many great Palm Talk members there and nearby in the Bay Area should have additional suggestions for you as well..

[Fusca]

I was going to suggest Roystonea as well but I'd also consider some nice hybrids produced with the common queen.  Coco queens (Syagrus schizophylla x Syagrus romanzoffiana) and mule palms (Butia odorata x Syagrus romanzoffiana).  The mules are quite variable, fast growing and extremely cold hardy - can't go wrong with either in my opinion.

[GottmitAlex]

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Beccariophoenix alfredii (also fenestralis & madagascariensis) resembles a coconut and is hardy down to the mid-20s. Will Rhopalostylis spp grow in Central Cali? Many large Dypsis spp grow better in mediterranean climates than here in FL. What about the Howeas? If you've dismissed palmate palms as unworthy of your attention, please reconsider.

This!

[Josue Diaz]

A lot of things will grow here, but a lot of things definitely will not. There are very experienced growers in the Modesto area, up towards Brentwood. And although we rarely go below 32F, we most definitely do go below freezing from time to time. The long, cool, wet winter will do as much damage as a night of frost on a number of palms too. Foxtails will grow here, they look bad coming out of winter but recover by midsummer - they're cheap and readily available at big box stores now. Bismarkia, dypsis decaryi, dypsis decipiens, all good options, though not all are foolproof in our climate. 

[Josue Diaz]

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Beccariophoenix alfredii (also fenestralis & madagascariensis) resembles a coconut and is hardy down to the mid-20s. Will Rhopalostylis spp grow in Central Cali? Many large Dypsis spp grow better in mediterranean climates than here in FL. What about the Howeas? If you've dismissed palmate palms as unworthy of your attention, please reconsider.

Rhopalostylis really dislike our summer temps. I've had trouble growing them in Fresno. They do great in coastal, central California though.  Howea (both species) do great if sheltered from sun AND frost. One 100 degree day in sun will burn howeas to a crisp.

[Whiplash87]

Wow! Thank you all for such detailed responses and recommendations. I took a ton of screen shots and have lots of awesome palms to research now. I can't thank you guys enough! Jose Diaz, do you know of any good nurseries in Central or coastal California that have less common palm trees? I'm often in the Fresno area and I don't mind traveling for nice trees. 

[Josue Diaz]

29 minutes ago, Whiplash87 said:

Wow! Thank you all for such detailed responses and recommendations. I took a ton of screen shots and have lots of awesome palms to research now. I can't thank you guys enough! Jose Diaz, do you know of any good nurseries in Central or coastal California that have less common palm trees? I'm often in the Fresno area and I don't mind traveling for nice trees. 

Jurassic Palms in Richmond is a very good place to find palms. You'll find a few select palms from time to time in nurseries in the East Bay (Berkeley Horticultural, Dry Garden, ACE Hardware on Grand Ave). In the valley, the only ones i know of are local ones for me in Fresno. Sago Ray Nursery has tons of unique species in 1 gal up to field grown specimens (trithrinax, jubaea, livistona, jubaeopsis, parajubaea, brahea, sabal + cycads like macrozamia and encephalartos). Willow Gardens in Clovis has a decent selection of massive, boxed parajubaea, butia, mule palms and others. 

[Whiplash87]

I'll have to check them out! Thanks for the recommendations!

[Palmfarmer]

If you have the Space how about a Bismarck? Or if you can afford it a big Blue hesper

[Whiplash87]

Not usually a big fan of fan palms but blue fan palms are the exception. Those look really good. I do have a smaller space for palm trees. At least until they get tall enough. 

[Tom in Tucson]

Palms with clean trunks that should do well in the San Joaquin valley:

Relatively fast growing (not queens or kings):

Mule palms - Butia x Syagrus, Jubaea x Syagrus, Butia x Parajubaea

Bismarckia

Slow growing:

Jubaea

Beccariophoenix alfredii - somewhat tender, but worth the risk

Brahea edulis 

Hi 66˚, Lo 35˚

[DoomsDave]

13 hours ago, Whiplash87 said:

I live in Central California and I'm looking for a beautiful, either solitary palm or trio. Preferably self cleaning. We rarely get below 32 degrees here. I have Areca palms starting to get some size. I do love Christmas tree palms but I don't believe they'll thrive or survive. Have my eye on lipstick and foxtail palms. Just wondering what others would grow here. So may options out there. Not a fan of queen/king palms. Everyone has queen/ mexican fan palms here. The palm will be around a pool and next to a high wood fence so it will have a slight temperature buffer. Thanks in Advance!

Nice to meet you!

Note that Zone 9B only refers to the winter lows, not the climate as a whole. 9B in California is way way different from 9B in Florida.

 

[RedRabbit]

There have been some great suggestions already. In particular, I like Becarriophoenix alfredii and Kentiopsis oliviformis. Chambeyronia macrocarpa might also be worthy of consideration. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

Welcome to Palmtalk! Looking at your climate on the chart below tells a lot. Any palm for your area will have to endure chilly temps December-February and very hot summers. You want to stay away from palms that need year round warmth and also ones that can’t handle Modesto’s arid summer heat. 

 

Brahea edulis (Guadalupe palm) sheds its fan leaves cleanly off trunk. Slow growing though.

Bismarckia nobilis (Bismarck Palm) Moderate grower, dramatic silver blue leaves and sheds leaves when mature.

Jubaea chilensis (Chilean Wine Palm) Huge smooth trunk, dramatic feather fronds. 

Butia Odorata (Pindo Palm, Jelly Palm) Feather leaves, delicious fruit. Only semi self cleaning. Takes dead fronds a long time to shed. 

Phoenix roebellenii (Pygmy Date Palm) Smaller stature, good when repeated in the landscape. 

I personally love King palms and have over 55 in groves but I’m 10a and nearly coastal here so summers are considerably cooler and moister here. You could grow them in sheltered and shaded areas perhaps. 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Jim in Los Altos

[GottmitAlex]

Beccariophoenix alfredii. Heck, with your humidity, you could even try a Beccariophoenix fenestralis. 

Make sure they are south facing in order for them to acquire direct sunlight.  The fenestralis might want some shade as a seedling. 

 

That said: The sooner you plant them the better. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by GottmitAlex

[greysrigging]

1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

Nice to meet you!

Note that Zone 9B only refers to the winter lows, not the climate as a whole. 9B in California is way way different from 9B in Florida.

 

Never a truer word written... I find the whole concept of 'Growing Zones' to be entirely misleading. Find the nearest official weather station, get the records and do some research. In a similar vein, Perth and Sydney ( Australia ) are on a similar latitude but are entirely different climatically and soil wise.  The local climate is the key.....

[enigma99]

If you dislike regular queens how about coco queens? (Hybrid)

[greysrigging]

23 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Welcome to Palmtalk! Looking at your climate on the chart below tells a lot. Any palm for your area will have to endure chilly temps December-February and very hot summers. You want to stay away from palms that need year round warmth and also ones that can’t handle Modesto’s arid summer heat. 

 

Brahea edulis (Guadalupe palm) sheds its fan leaves cleanly off trunk. Slow growing though.

Bismarckia nobilis (Bismarck Palm) Moderate grower, dramatic silver blue leaves and sheds leaves when mature.

Jubaea chilensis (Chilean Wine Palm) Huge smooth trunk, dramatic feather fronds. 

Butia Odorata (Pindo Palm, Jelly Palm) Feather leaves, delicious fruit. Only semi self cleaning. Takes dead fronds a long time to shed. 

Phoenix roebellenii (Pygmy Date Palm) Smaller stature, good when repeated in the landscape. 

I personally love King palms and have over 55 in groves but I’m 10a and nearly coastal here so summers are considerably cooler and moister here. You could grow them in sheltered and shaded areas perhaps. 

 

That is a full on Mediterranean type climate bordering semi arid. cant see too many tropicals liking the coldish  wettish winters. For example i cant think of a town in Australia where a Foxtail would thrive, let alone struggle to live in 55f max winter temps, never mind the nightly lows.
 

[GottmitAlex]

11 minutes ago, greysrigging said:

That is a full on Mediterranean type climate bordering semi arid. cant see too many tropicals liking the coldish  wettish winters. For example i cant think of a town in Australia where a Foxtail would thrive, let alone struggle to live in 55f max winter temps, never mind the nightly lows.
 

May I suggest checking their humidity....

https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Humidity-perc,modesto-california-us,United-States-of-America

Edited February 8, 2020 by GottmitAlex

[greysrigging]

4 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

May I suggest checking their humidity....

No doubt the Foxy is tough.... they do OK in Perth's Med climate.... bit different but, much warmer in winter and much wetter ( 30" a year near the coast ) and sandy soil, perfect drainage.  Looking at the climate stats for Modesto, there is a lot of work involved to get that 'tropical oasis' look ?

[enigma99]

8 hours ago, greysrigging said:

No doubt the Foxy is tough.... they do OK in Perth's Med climate.... bit different but, much warmer in winter and much wetter ( 30" a year near the coast ) and sandy soil, perfect drainage.  Looking at the climate stats for Modesto, there is a lot of work involved to get that 'tropical oasis' look ?

I’m north of modesto, tried foxtails and failed. My clay soil was ultimately what killed them due to the drainage. Like the royals, they do just fine in a pot but as soon as you plant em, it’s just a matter of time. But of course, I never give up and I am mounding and pumping the ground etc hoping to get them to survive. But there are a whole lot of palms that don’t grow anywhere in California. (Some you named)

[James B]

Your winters are a little bit colder than mine but your summers are very similar. I think Archontophoenix especially Cunninghamiana would do ok for you. I have 31 King palms of various types and over the past 5 years have only lost 2 to pink rot. However they were both small just starting to trunk and were both getting sprayed on their trunks from a sprinkler 

Edited February 8, 2020 by James B

[Xenon]

9 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

May I suggest checking their humidity....

https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Humidity-perc,modesto-california-us,United-States-of-America

Modesto is far from humid and would be xeric compared to FL humidity. 

Here is Modesto vs.  Miami

Source: Weatherspark 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Xenon

[Whiplash87]

This why I love forums. So many awesome people getting to get her to share their experiences. Yeah the valley here in CA cam definitely be a challenge to grow anything tropical. You have to create almost a micro climate. My father grows mangos, bananas, guava and has good experience growing palms and other plants that shouldn't survive here. So I pick his brain often. He's had a kentia, jelly palm, flame thrower and a few others oveR the years. My strategy is to keep them potted and in a green house for the winter till they get some size. I also have clay soil, so I dig a very large hole and fill with the appropriate soil mix for whatever I'm planting. I typically just toss the native soil. Right now I have a jacaranda, tabebuia rosea and royal poinciana that should help shade and protect from some wind chill once they get a little more size on them. Summers here can get pretty rough. Temps often hit over 100, few years back their was a heat wave and we were frequently hitting near 110. Definitely a challenge to grow tropicals, but who doesn't like a challenge and the tropical feel. 

[Silas_Sancona]

28 minutes ago, Whiplash87 said:

This why I love forums. So many awesome people getting to get her to share their experiences. Yeah the valley here in CA cam definitely be a challenge to grow anything tropical. You have to create almost a micro climate. My father grows mangos, bananas, guava and has good experience growing palms and other plants that shouldn't survive here. So I pick his brain often. He's had a kentia, jelly palm, flame thrower and a few others oveR the years. My strategy is to keep them potted and in a green house for the winter till they get some size. I also have clay soil, so I dig a very large hole and fill with the appropriate soil mix for whatever I'm planting. I typically just toss the native soil. Right now I have a jacaranda, tabebuia rosea and royal poinciana that should help shade and protect from some wind chill once they get a little more size on them. Summers here can get pretty rough. Temps often hit over 100, few years back their was a heat wave and we were frequently hitting near 110. Definitely a challenge to grow tropicals, but who doesn't like a challenge and the tropical feel. 

Curious, hows your Royal Poinciana done there for you?

[Whiplash87]

48 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Modesto is far from humid and would be xeric compared to FL humidity. 

Here is Modesto vs.  Miami

Source: Weatherspark 

 

Yeah Xenon we have virtually no humidity here. Skin definitely feels it in the winter. For establishing plants I have a tiny greenhouse in my garage where I crank the humidity to 65% or greater. 

Silas_Sancona: my first poinciana thrived the first two years. I grew it from seed and by year two it was seven feet tall and five feet wide. Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to how deep I planted the root collar. I also failed to shut off my drip system to it so the trunk rotted. Thankfully they grow so fast I have a new one I started by seed this last fall and is now a foot tall. So it should take off once I acclimate and put it in the ground. It's definitely a beautiful tree. Jacaranda is still my favorite so far. I also have a coral tree, plumaria, silk floss, African tulip and Hong Kong orchid. So I'm definitely working on my tropical oasis. 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, Whiplash87 said:

 

Silas_Sancona: my first poinciana thrived the first two years. I grew it from seed and by year two it was seven feet tall and five feet wide. Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to how deep I planted the root collar. I also failed to shut off my drip system to it so the trunk rotted. Thankfully they grow so fast I have a new one I started by seed this last fall and is now a foot tall. So it should take off once I acclimate and put it in the ground. It's definitely a beautiful tree. Jacaranda is still my favorite so far. I also have a coral tree, plumaria, silk floss, African tulip and Hong Kong orchid. So I'm definitely working on my tropical oasis. 

That's a pretty good start.. I hear you regarding keeping Royal Poinciana dry once it starts cooling down and what can happen if you don't.. 7 x 5ft in 2 years is pretty good for that area.  You might look into ( if you have room ) trying Delonix decaryi, and/ or Delonix pumila.. which are essentially white flowered versions of a Royal Poinciana. Might be a couple degrees hardier as well.

Regardless, if you don't have too much trouble w/ your Royal, let alone African Tulip Tree, especially when it has put on some older wood, i'd say you have some wiggle room on your choices of more uncommon, zone pushing tropical-ish palms as well, sans anything that is really intolerant of cool /cold and wet conditions such as Adonidas or Lipsticks, especially once you get some canopy up and going.


 

[Jim in Los Altos]

13 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

May I suggest checking their humidity....

https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Humidity-perc,modesto-california-us,United-States-of-America

 

13 hours ago, greysrigging said:

No doubt the Foxy is tough.... they do OK in Perth's Med climate.... bit different but, much warmer in winter and much wetter ( 30" a year near the coast ) and sandy soil, perfect drainage.  Looking at the climate stats for Modesto, there is a lot of work involved to get that 'tropical oasis' look ?

True. I’m across the SF Bay from Modesto and have a milder climate (10a) and my Foxtail still struggles to produce three new leaves per year. Foxy Lady is a different story though. It’s a rocket and is right next to the Foxtail so same water, light exposure etc. 

[Whiplash87]

Yeah, foxy lady is now one of the top palms on my list now. I reached out to a member on here to see if they had any. They said they'll let me know when they aquire some. As Silas_Sancona said hard to find any. Couldn't find any online vendors selling established palms or even seed. 

[AZPalms]

I’m going to second Roystonea if you have the room. You get some heat which it will love, cooler winters will slow her but keep it dryer and should be okay. 

Roystonea needs to start sponsoring me?? 

Alternatively a mule is an absolute no brainer. Tropical look, hardy for anything you have in your zone, moderate growth and size, also fairly uncommon so a unique addition to your yard. 

[Josue Diaz]

Foxy lady will spot and burn over winter. curious what your lows were this last weekend as we had a significant cooldown across the state. We got to about 30F. I'll post a pic of my foxy lady when i get home. 

[Whiplash87]

Sweet thanks Jose. We got down to 36 I believe. AZ palms love the look of the Roystonea. Not a fan of the mule palm. I guess I just like the smooth trunks better. Although I do like the look of pygmy date palms as a duo or trio. 

[enigma99]

1 hour ago, Whiplash87 said:

Yeah, foxy lady is now one of the top palms on my list now. I reached out to a member on here to see if they had any. They said they'll let me know when they aquire some. As Silas_Sancona said hard to find any. Couldn't find any online vendors selling established palms or even seed. 

Try ebay. They come on once in a while but it’s usually a bidding war and expect to pay 150-200 for a 3gal size

[Ben in Norcal]

2 minutes ago, enigma99 said:

Try ebay. They come on once in a while but it’s usually a bidding war and expect to pay 150-200 for a 3gal size

Dang, Derrick, way to create more competition for us. 

[enigma99]

1 hour ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Dang, Derrick, way to create more competition for us. 

Yeah what have I done? Lol

 

[enigma99]

Since I live in a similar climate, posting what you can expect with foxy ladys.  Some spotting shown below from today’s photos. One in the ground opened a leaf just before it turned cold and you can see it’s especially hit hard with some fungus or something. Could be worse I guess. But as Jim mentioned these are fast. So by end of summer I am sure it will look like nothing happened