Mule Palm Relocation

[DAVEinMB]

So I moved one of my mule palms over the weekend. Yea, I know, it's a risky time to do so but we've been in the 60s and 70s most of the winter so far with the extended forecast looking roughly the same. Lows for the rest of the winter are looking like a zone 10a so I figured I'd roll the dice.

There's 2 reasons for the move...

- relocate said mule to a warmer spot in my yard

- replace a dying windmill

- potentially help filter sunlight for my chamaedorea and fatsia

Attached are some pics, I replanted the windmill towards the edge of my property near the woods. If it rebounds I'll leave it there but unfortunately it hasn't shown new growth in about a year so it may be done for. 

[RJ]

Looks good, but seems pretty close to that sabal to me...

[DAVEinMB]

41 minutes ago, RJ said:

Looks good, but seems pretty close to that sabal to me...

I was debating whether or not I was planting too close but figured I'd see what it looks like after the summer. My planting locations in that area are limited for anything with larger root balls because of a multi line French drain I put in. The goal for that area is the grown in jungle look so it may work out. 

French drain pics below

[jimmyt]

I like it.    Maybe the mule and the sabal can learn to just get along......

[RJ]

2 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

I was debating whether or not I was planting too close but figured I'd see what it looks like after the summer. My planting locations in that area are limited for anything with larger root balls because of a multi line French drain I put in. The goal for that area is the grown in jungle look so it may work out. 

French drain pics below

 

 

Is that perforated pipe (holes pointed down) you are using? I see you have gravel and landscape fabric around them which leads me to believe it is. Those palm roots will eventually penetrate that fabric and have a field day in that pipe if it is.  

[DAVEinMB]

16 minutes ago, RJ said:

Is that perforated pipe (holes pointed down) you are using? I see you have gravel and landscape fabric around them which leads me to believe it is. Those palm roots will eventually penetrate that fabric and have a field day in that pipe if it is.  

That is exactly what it is.  The retaining wall I built coupled with the soil type used to fill everything in made for some very poor drainage in that area.  Aside from replacing all the soil with a different mix I figured this was my best bet. Iirc it took 14 yards of top soil to level off that area. 

[Turtlesteve]

Ehh, most non-palms have even more invasive roots, so are you suggesting he just not plant anything but grass?   Just curious, b/c I had to do a french drain on one side of my house.  I chose a couple cycads and some japanese maples in my case.

[RJ]

For sure other plants have more invasive roots then palms. Maples - red maples come to mind, have very aggressive roots.  Usually french drains, as they are done in the SE stay close to the footings then daylight through solid non perforated pipe.  It looks like Dave has clay under that topsoil so when you dig a trench you make a nice bathtub for water to sit. When the water raises above the holes it will drain to daylight, when it drops it will sit. Eventually it will percolate down into the clay but roots will find a way into the pipe holes eventually and can clog the pipe, negating their usefulness.  In Dave's case it looks as though the addition of the topsoil caused poor drainage around the house. Not sure where he is in MB but I imagine it's pretty flat making drainage away from the house a potential chore, the additional several inches of topsoil probably aggravated the situation. A good rule of thumb is to have 1/2" of slope per foot for the first 5-10' from the house. Again not always possible in very flat areas. Fortunately most very flat area's are sandy and naturally drain well, although that's not always the case. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by RJ
Edit to add image stolen from the WWW :)

[Turtlesteve]

2 hours ago, RJ said:

For sure other plants have more invasive roots then palms. Maples - red maples come to mind, have very aggressive roots.  Usually french drains, as they are done in the SE stay close to the footings then daylight through solid non perforated pipe.  It looks like Dave has clay under that topsoil so when you dig a trench you make a nice bathtub for water to sit. When the water raises above the holes it will drain to daylight, when it drops it will sit. Eventually it will percolate down into the clay but roots will find a way into the pipe holes eventually and can clog the pipe, negating their usefulness.  In Dave's case it looks as though the addition of the topsoil caused poor drainage around the house. Not sure where he is in MB but I imagine it's pretty flat making drainage away from the house a potential chore, the additional several inches of topsoil probably aggravated the situation. A good rule of thumb is to have 1/2" of slope per foot for the first 5-10' from the house. Again not always possible in very flat areas. Fortunately most very flat area's are sandy and naturally drain well, although that's not always the case. 

OK, just curious.  The drawing shows exactly what I did for mine.  I did use non-perforated pipe to channel water to a dry well away from the house.  I know regular maples are bad with roots, but Japanese maples are comparably well-behaved and stay small anyways.

But getting back to Dave's original topic, I think the transplanted mule will be fine given the nice big root ball and favorable weather we're having this year.  My two hybrids are still pushing leaves out right now in Aiken, and I've only bothered to cover them a couple nights this winter.

[DAVEinMB]

2 hours ago, RJ said:

For sure other plants have more invasive roots then palms. Maples - red maples come to mind, have very aggressive roots.  Usually french drains, as they are done in the SE stay close to the footings then daylight through solid non perforated pipe.  It looks like Dave has clay under that topsoil so when you dig a trench you make a nice bathtub for water to sit. When the water raises above the holes it will drain to daylight, when it drops it will sit. Eventually it will percolate down into the clay but roots will find a way into the pipe holes eventually and can clog the pipe, negating their usefulness.  In Dave's case it looks as though the addition of the topsoil caused poor drainage around the house. Not sure where he is in MB but I imagine it's pretty flat making drainage away from the house a potential chore, the additional several inches of topsoil probably aggravated the situation. A good rule of thumb is to have 1/2" of slope per foot for the first 5-10' from the house. Again not always possible in very flat areas. Fortunately most very flat area's are sandy and naturally drain well, although that's not always the case. 

My back yard actually has a pretty good slope to it and the soil is a nice sandy mix in most places. There is clay in spots but what you are seeing in the hole post windmill removal is a sand mix I added below the rootball. You are correct, I caused my drainage issues with the top soil and retaining wall. That top soil is like a damn sponge.  I used 1 degree slope for the PVC piping and checked everything using a 4' level and golf ball.  While I was at it I dug around each of the palms I already had in the ground and added a sand heavy mix to the base of each as deep as the piping. I had to reuse the top soil in areas but all the trees should have solid drainage now. 

[Laaz]

On 1/13/2020 at 11:30 AM, jimmyt said:

I like it.    Maybe the mule and the sabal can learn to just get along......

Or be like the maples & the oaks...

 

[DAVEinMB]

24 minutes ago, Laaz said:

Or be like the maples & the oaks...

 

Hahaha

[jimmyt]

Exactly my thoughts Laaz!

God rest Neil Peart’s soul

 

[DAVEinMB]

Sunlight shouldn't be much of an issue. The sun is already blocked from directly overhead of the sabal by a few pine trees and this area doesn't start to see any decent direct light until around 10 or 11 am. From then until sundown there's nothing else blocking the sun which at this point is shining in at a diagonal on the entire patio. The sabal's canopy may affect this some but I don't think enough to be a detriment. I swing and miss a good bit tho so I guess we'll see. 

[Merlyn]

2 years ago I would have said something like, "That's way too close, the fronds should never touch each other!"  Now I'd think that 3 feet or so is plenty of space, as long as there is enough sunlight for the mule.   

[DAVEinMB]

2 years, 3 months

[RJ]

Looks great ! 

[Manalto]

I'd say you've achieved the jungle look you were going for!

[DAVEinMB]

11 hours ago, RJ said:

Looks great ! 

Thanks brother! Definitely glad I moved it and can't believe it's been over 2 years

 

10 hours ago, Manalto said:

I'd say you've achieved the jungle look you were going for!

Every day a little more than the last