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pete21

Palmtree for north spain

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pete21

hello all,

i am looking for advices on which palm tree i can grow in spain, i planted a few Mexican Palm, and some canariensis, one female with 4 meters palm and a male, i have some alexandra suffering of the cold, i like the hurricane type palm exotic, and i look for infos.

i baught like 20 different palm varietie seeds, some i may not be able to grow here sadly.

Temp min -6 (short time, warm up quick during day) Temp Max 46 degrees celcius

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Edited by pete21
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Fusca

Pete, welcome to Palmtalk!

I don't know much about your climate, but based on your minimum/maximum temperatures it sounds like we have similar growing conditions.  I am in USDA climate zone 9a and I'll share a list of palms that I grow with minimal/zero cold damage (not in your list), can handle very hot temperatures, do not require a lot of water:

Copernicia alba and prunifera

Livistona chinensis, nitida, decora, saribus (green petiole form)

Brahea armata, calcarea, clara

Arenga engleri (prefers extra water)

Sabal mexicana, uresana, riverside

Chamaedorea radicalis and microspadix

Chamaerops humilis

Trithrinax acanthocoma

Butia odorata

Syagrus romanzoffiana (prefers extra water)

Acrocomia totai

Butia x Syagrus (hybrid)

Rhapis excelsa

Serenoa repens

Parajubaea sunkha (prefers cooler summer night temps)

Hyphaene coriacea

In addition to these you could also try Trachycarpus, Acoelorraphe wrightii, Allagoptera arenaria, Jubaea chilensis, and various other Phoenix species, Brahea species, etc.  Depending on your zone and proximity to the coast you might be able to expand this list quite a bit, but it is a start.

Jon

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pete21

Hi Jon thanks a lot,

I have an arecastrum de 3 meters  palm too growing well, thanks a lot for the list i will check which palm type it is and give it a try.

is it rare to see a canariensis with 4 meters palms?

I like that one and i do have cool night     Parajubaea sunkha

 

sorry for the bad quality photo, any idea what palm it is?

 

 

ffff.jpg

Edited by pete21

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Fusca

 

10 minutes ago, pete21 said:

Hi Jon thanks a lot, I have a queen palm too growing well, thanks a lot for the list i will check which palm type it is and give it a try.

is it rare to see a canariensis with 4 meters palms?

I like that one and i do have cool night     Parajubaea sunkha

 

 

It is normal to have a Phoenix canariensis at that size with fronds that long - it looks like it is at the size where it will start to grow faster!  :)  

I am growing the Parajubaea sunkha species because it tolerates more humidity than the other species.  If your humidity is lower you might want to try a different species like Parajubaea torallyi or cocoides which I think grow faster.  These palms basically stop growing when it gets really hot and then resume growth when it cools down some.  My sunkha did fine with summer temps around 40°C several days even though night time temps were around 20-25°C many nights and I kept it dry during this period.  It's now pushing new growth in winter!  I just planted it this year so it has not experienced severe cold yet.  Let us know what else you decide to plant!

Jon

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pete21

Thanks Jon,

here we have the arecastrum romanzofianum and syagrus who really look the same, i like the windamere, huricane style, exotic with green stem fine stem, to break the style with the washingtonian and canariensis planted. I have cactus, fruit trees, and bambus. and a water reserve made of stone with rain water and city water mixed.

The ground 4500 meters is an old natural fluvial zone with round stones, sand and yellow clay at 3 ft deep, 8,5 PH, rich in oligo elements, with organic cereales as past cultures, rarely tilled to preserve the soil horizons. 

 

Edited by pete21

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LivistonaFan

Hello and welcome to palmtalk! Edit: Please ignore that half of my quotations consist of awkward emptiness, but I can't edit them out (I will do better next time)

It seems to me that there are still some 'misconceptions' in this thread that haven't been answered yet. 

On 1/6/2020 at 10:58 PM, pete21 said:
 
 
 
 
 
3
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
5
On 1/6/2020 at 10:58 PM, pete21 said:

here we have the arecastrum romanzofianum and syagrus who really look the same

 

 

Your 'Arecastrum romanzofianum'  is indeed the same as the Syagrus (Romanzoffiana - by far the most common Syagrus in the Mediterranean), it is just an old name/synonym of it.

On 1/6/2020 at 10:16 PM, pete21 said:
 
 
 
 
On 1/6/2020 at 10:16 PM, pete21 said:

sorry for the bad quality photo, any idea what palm it is?

 

 

ffff.jpg

It was difficult for me to identify this photo since I only thought of palms that would grow in mainland Spain. But those clusters of green, immature coconuts (?) and yellowish petioles led me to the assumption it could be a Coconut palm (Cocos nucifera). The coconut palms I saw at the Sunshine Coast (Australia) a week ago had longer fronds than yours, and in the real tropics I guess even more so.

DSC_4081.thumb.JPG.bc28a84a043874ed2056d38d29b4c944.JPG

Just out of curiosity: Where did you take your photo? Perhaps Canary Islands?

The Kentia palm (Howea forsteriana) and the High Plateau Coconut Palm (Beccariophoenix alfredii) are the best coconut substitutes for mainland Spain, as it is too cool for too long to guarantee the survival of real Coconut palms. But both Palms only tolerate temperatures to about -4°C (with at least some damage), so you would have to protect them not every but some winters.

On 1/6/2020 at 7:59 PM, pete21 said:
 
 
 
 
2
On 1/6/2020 at 7:59 PM, pete21 said:

hello all,

i planted ... some canariensis, one female with 4 meters palm and a male

 

 

 

Don't you have any concerns in times of the RPW (Red Palm Weevil) planting Phoenix Canariensis? Either your garden is at least 20 km away from the next palm trees, so the Palm Weevils won't find and kill your palm trees or you have to actively protect them:unsure:

if you have the patience and space, you could plant a grove of Jubaea Chilensis. That would look awesome and they should be bullet-proof once established in your climate in terms of heat, cold and drought.

On 1/6/2020 at 8:52 PM, Fusca said:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
25
On 1/6/2020 at 8:52 PM, Fusca said:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
25
On 1/6/2020 at 8:52 PM, Fusca said:

Pete, welcome to Palmtalk!

Copernicia alba and prunifera

Livistona chinensis, nitida, decora, saribus (green petiole form)

Brahea armata, calcarea, clara, super silver

Arenga engleri (prefers extra water)

Sabal mexicana, uresana, riverside

Chamaedorea radicalis and microspadix

Chamaerops humilis

Trithrinax acanthocoma

Butia odorata

Syagrus romanzoffiana (prefers extra water)

Acrocomia totai

Butia x Syagrus (hybrid)

Rhapis excelsa, humilis

Serenoa repens

Parajubaea sunkha (prefers cooler summer night temps)

Hyphaene coriacea

In addition to these you could also try Trachycarpus, Acoelorraphe wrightii, Allagoptera arenaria, Jubaea chilensis, and various other Phoenix species, Brahea species, etc.  Depending on your zone and proximity to the coast you might be able to expand this list quite a bit, but it is a start.

Jon

That is a very good list to start with. Especially the Livistonas are worth a try because they aren't prone to RPW-death. Hyphaene coriacea could be difficult in your presumably cool and wet winters, the Copernicias might be as well. There are some other big Butias (B.eriospatha, B. yatay) and many dwarf Butias you could try.

The Sabals will be very slow-growing in your climate unless you water them vigorously in summer and even then there are faster genera. Sabal bermudana is one of the fastest-growing Sabals in the Mediterranean because it doesn't slow as much down as other Sabals in cooler temperatures, but IMO looks not very special.

On 1/6/2020 at 10:58 PM, pete21 said:

i like the windamere, huricane style, exotic with green stem fine stem

On 1/6/2020 at 7:59 PM, pete21 said:

i have some alexandra suffering of the cold

The windamere palm (Trachycarpus latisectus) should be fully hardy in your climate, maybe a bit thirsty in summer. 

Your second-mentioned palm, the hurricane palm (Dyctosperma album)?, would be even quite marginal in Malaga, therefore you can't plant it out without protection and should bring it indoors in winter.

By saying 'green stem' palm trees you mean palms with a crownshaft which are in most cases quite cold sensitive. After seeing your photos, I assume that you don't live within 10 km to the coast. Your 'alexandra' (Archontophoenix alexandrae) is fully hardy in Barcelona and other coastal cities of eastern Spain and northwestern Spain, but might not be in one of your colder winters. Archontophoenix cunninghamiana looks quite similar and is a tad cold hardier, but maybe not enough. The Manambe Palm (Dypsis Decipiens) is the hardiest crownshaft palm,  albeit a bit slow and expensive.

I hope you found this post helpful.

PS: Like you, I am planning to grow some palms in a Mediterranean climate (definitely cooler than yours in summer and maybe in winter as well): 

Some of the Palms that are already planted or soon will be so:

Washingtonia (Robusta + Filifera)

Parajubaea Torallyi

Butia eriospatha

Butia Matogrossenis

Livistona Chinensis

Brahea Super Silver

Chamaedorea radicalis + microspadix

Butia Paraguayensis X Syagrus Romanzoffiana

Jubaea Chilensis

Trachycarpus Latisectus

I also had a Phoenix canariensis, but removed it because of the danger of RPW (I know, Jubaea is endangered as well, but I won't tell her:innocent:)

There will be also some Cycads planted out you could try as well:

Cycas revoluta

Cycas Taitungensis

Dioon Edule

Edited by LivistonaFan
tried to edit, but failed

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pete21

Hello LivistonaFan,

I rarely got such a big response, so i will need 3 months to go over and over again all your precious infos, thank you very much for taking the time,

i try not to freak out too much about the RPW, we fumigated them today, and i am away from many palms, the rare palm i see around are healthy.

we pruned them in november, december to minimise risks, anyway, if it happens, it happens and this is it, transpost was expensive but the 4 meters palm canariensis costed me 100 euros.

i have my washingtonian cleaned today, the trunk, i will post images soon, and i got 2 new syagrus arecastrum, but one had broken leafs upon arrival and tranposrt.

i ve been breeding seeds, for the last 14 years so hopefully i can breed some palms too, soon. i am 10 km away from the coast of Benicassim.

I have a 60 years old cyca, and i red it was so dangerous for my cat, i regretted planted it, it was so well rooted there that i build a trunk protection so the cat wont reach the trunk with his nails.

this canariensis is the male he stayed green after transplant, (i have a male and fem) with 56 degrees under the sun this last summer. the owner grower showed me how he was watering them, it was like a rio, 2 ft deep water runing through the palms trees, like a swimming pool.

 

 

 

 

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Edited by pete21

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pete21

i received some palm oil elaesis seeds, i wander how to germinate them, the fruit still dried there, seller said they can germinate like this but eill clean them i guess. i saw this method to remove the operculum to boost germ rate, anybody can tell me, and the 40 days heat and second soaking, ...i guess i will do it how i can and wait and see.

I may built a greenhouse soon and keep some plants inside so my intents will not in vain if i succeed with any. I got some alexandra seeds germinating, lol, some wax palm seeds too, the quindio, well it s an indoor project. 

this was a problem here too for the canariensis.

http://www.ginerymira.com/blog/paysandisia-tratamiento-para-las-palmeras/

Lepidoptera: Castniidae

re the image of the first palm i enquired, i found it in google sorry about it.

Edited by pete21

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mdsonofthesouth

I like to clean the seeds then soak them in water for a few days then in cell trays with soil in my mini greenhouse with a heat mat underneath. I was able to keep the seeds in the mid 80s which worked for chamaerodea radicalis. Some like the baggie method but never tried that.

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pete21

mdsonofthesouth, thanks a lot!

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dalmatiansoap

Elaeis are beautiful palms in my opinion. I can't grow one here, they seem to be to tender for my climate.

Good luck with them

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pete21

thanks all, this is some images of the Alexandra when i got it one year ago, and other images of new palm, later on, last night we had -6, some leafs are burned since a month now, but others lower stayed green, I protected it, next season i will fertilize with high P hoping to make it again more cold hardy. it's its first winter here and it has well rooted and produced 4 new beautiful fronds. I added more plants there and its the most humid , shady space so i will plant more exotic around, it now kept moisture better with rocks, stones, "mulching" etc...

i received lot of seeds lately, started sowing, what a cool video on the jubea chilensis hacienda cocalan on youtube. i think they re my preferred palm now, i love exotic but huge tres does it for me, i lived nearby the sequioa park...

 

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Edited by pete21

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Getta Robo

You can also try Phoenix theophrasti, there is a small population at the botanic garden of Stavroupolis Thessalonikis, at 50 meters altitude and have survived and even fruit.

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pete21

my male canariensis got one frond perforated, i heard the Redweevil attacks more the male than female.

these are the second last fronds, i dont see holes in the new ones. could it be an insect who eated it when it was geting out and my palm is not invested then? 

I ordered neem oil and nematodes and i have the product for fumigation, I did 2 fumigation in 15 days , second lightly.

Will trow some nematodes today and rinse well before maybe.

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pete21

anybody have tried  the black earwigs as predators for the red weevil? its in asia one of his main predator, and thats why the red weevil has not affected palmtrees there like they did in europe, due to 3 natural predators eating larves and eggs, earwig who like soy sauce ( no joke, traps are made with this sauce) , and shade, often under stones.

Edited by pete21

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