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TedNoah1

New Windmill Palm

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TedNoah1

Hello!
 

I have a baby Chinese windmill palm being delivered to me this week. I will be putting it in a rather large pot outside. At the moment, I’m leasing my home and don’t own it. We aren’t allowed to plant trees of any size. I live in Chesapeake, Virginia (the greater Virginia Beach region), zone 8A. Will the tree be safe outside during the winter? I see these palms all over the place in Virginia. They seem to be very popular where I live. However, I’ve yet to see one in a pot, most are in the ground and growing quite large! Any tips/advice welcome! :-)

Edited by TedNoah1

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Steve in Florida

The newest leaves on small nursery grown windmill palms are easily damaged by frost.

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kinzyjr

Palms in pots are not as hardy as when they are planted in the ground.  While a Windmill Palm (Trachycarpus fortunei) is a very hardy trunking palm, I'd take it easy on it for this winter at least.  If it looks like it will get cold, bring it in.  A frozen pot is typically bad news.

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Allen

When you say baby?  What size exactly?  I have potted Fortunei I leave outside till 20F or so.  Been doing that for 3 years.  You could leave outside and put it right by the house on the southern side and put leaves or mulch around the pot and you should be good to a bit below 20F.  You will most likely need to insulate the pot during winter if you have no intention of bringing inside.  

Here are mine that I've left out to a bit below 20F.  They have been in 16-18F a couple of times and were fine but these are larger palms.

 

5D3_8680.jpg

5D3_8676.jpg

Edited by Allen
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PalmatierMeg

How big is your "baby"? I suggest you don't place a small palm in a large pot. Overpotting palms can lead to many problems, i.e., root rot, bud rot, that might be fatal. Use a pot that comfortably accommodates the rootball but doesn't leave the plant "drowning" in excess space. And because the palm is young and small and potted don't leave it outdoors when temps plunge.

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TedNoah1
On 12/31/2019 at 6:52 PM, Allen said:

When you say baby?  What size exactly?  I have potted Fortunei I leave outside till 20F or so.  Been doing that for 3 years.  You could leave outside and put it right by the house on the southern side and put leaves or mulch around the pot and you should be good to a bit below 20F.  You will most likely need to insulate the pot during winter if you have no intention of bringing inside.  

Here are mine that I've left out to a bit below 20F.  They have been in 16-18F a couple of times and were fine but these are larger palms.

 

5D3_8680.jpg

5D3_8676.jpg

These are tremendous! Thanks for sharing the pictures and giving advice!

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TedNoah1
On 12/31/2019 at 5:45 PM, kinzyjr said:

Palms in pots are not as hardy as when they are planted in the ground.  While a Windmill Palm (Trachycarpus fortunei) is a very hardy trunking palm, I'd take it easy on it for this winter at least.  If it looks like it will get cold, bring it in.  A frozen pot is typically bad news.

OK, thank you! I’ll bring it inside if we get below 30-28.

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TedNoah1
13 minutes ago, TedNoah1 said:

These are tremendous! Thanks for sharing the pictures and giving advice!

Here it is! 

97D17504-DC22-46E1-B9B5-0581805439F7.jpeg

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TedNoah1
11 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

How big is your "baby"? I suggest you don't place a small palm in a large pot. Overpotting palms can lead to many problems, i.e., root rot, bud rot, that might be fatal. Use a pot that comfortably accommodates the rootball but doesn't leave the plant "drowning" in excess space. And because the palm is young and small and potted don't leave it outdoors when temps plunge.

Thank you for replying! Sadly, I must have the alerts turned off or something because I didn’t see any of these until after planting it. Do you think it’ll be OK in this pot? Or should I buy a smaller one this weekend?

12D0BD41-C3EB-4FF4-86D5-04DB6E559B48.jpeg

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Allen

It needs to be in a smaller pot and kept inside when temps are under freezing at that small size.   I would respectfully advise looking for a larger palm.  Nurseries generally sell ones with a small trunk for $50-$70 which will be 3 years ahead of this one.

 

There is a pretty decent one on ebay right now for $15

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-year-old-Arkansas-Palm-Trees-aka-Trachycarpus-Fortunei-Cold-tolerant/254428090927?hash=item3b3d18922f:g:T~MAAOSwqsNc9D35

Edited by Allen

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TedNoah1
19 minutes ago, Allen said:

It needs to be in a smaller pot and kept inside when temps are under freezing at that small size.   I would respectfully advise looking for a larger palm.  Nurseries generally sell ones with a small trunk for $50-$70 which will be 3 years ahead of this one.

 

There is a pretty decent one on ebay right now for $15

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-year-old-Arkansas-Palm-Trees-aka-Trachycarpus-Fortunei-Cold-tolerant/254428090927?hash=item3b3d18922f:g:T~MAAOSwqsNc9D35

OK! Again, thank you for your responses! I just save that one on eBay in my watchlist. They look great! There are plenty of them sold here, in Virginia Beach region. I’ll reply at this guy again this weekend and keep it inside until the spring. Happy new year!

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Pal Meir
2 hours ago, TedNoah1 said:

Thank you for replying! Sadly, I must have the alerts turned off or something because I didn’t see any of these until after planting it. Do you think it’ll be OK in this pot? Or should I buy a smaller one this weekend?

12D0BD41-C3EB-4FF4-86D5-04DB6E559B48.jpeg

That pot is much too large. And the soil mix doesn’t look good (too much humus). — I was using a size like this one:

760430310_Tfortunei72N11-0430.thumb.jpg.3be6db4b55238d0abe57a5272a5ba0b7.jpg

And even for bigger palms my containers were smaller than yours:

1175572030_Trachycarpusfortunei2015-05-04.thumb.jpg.201da13e27ccce6f5293748cbe12c250.jpg

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PalmatierMeg

Your soil mix needs to be loose and very well draining. Water sparingly, esp. during cold weather.

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TedNoah1
1 minute ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Your soil mix needs to be loose and very well draining. Water sparingly, esp. during cold weather.

Good to know. I had just planted it so it had water then. I bought a cactus/palm soil mix from the local garden center. Not good?

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TedNoah1
37 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

That pot is much too large. And the soil mix doesn’t look good (too much humus). — I was using a size like this one:

760430310_Tfortunei72N11-0430.thumb.jpg.3be6db4b55238d0abe57a5272a5ba0b7.jpg

And even for bigger palms my containers were smaller than yours:

1175572030_Trachycarpusfortunei2015-05-04.thumb.jpg.201da13e27ccce6f5293748cbe12c250.jpg

Thank you! I’ll invest in a better pot and replant . The soil I bought from the garden center was cactus/palm. If it looks very wet, I had just watered it after putting. The pot has great drainage though.

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PalmatierMeg

I add perlite or even pumice to increase drainage. For my most valued palms I switched to a coarse organic garden soil I found at Lowe's. I amend that too with perlite or some pine bark mini mulch I found at Lowe's a few months ago. You want to avoid a pot full of dense black muck/sludge.

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TedNoah1

Good morning everyone! I wanted to say thanks again for all of the advice, comments and pictures. Everyone was repotted yesterday. The baby is now in a 6 inch pot, and the almost 3-year-olds are in 9 inch. Each received palm/cactus high-drain soil. For the next 6 to 7 days, we’re going to be in the 70s to upper 50s. I’ll be sure to bring these in if we get closer to 30. I’m thrilled! Thanks again!

4B4B8513-3CF4-4137-AB0E-3D452892ED69.jpeg

Edited by TedNoah1
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Allen

Looking good. 

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oasis371

Here is my Japanese fan in NJ/Zone 7A.

IMG_1195.jpg

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TedNoah1
On 1/12/2020 at 6:31 PM, oasis371 said:

Here is my Japanese fan in NJ/Zone 7A.

IMG_1195.jpg

Wow, does that stay out all year!?

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UK_Palms

Looking good, pal :greenthumb:

Trachycarpus Fortunei is about as hardy as you can get, besides stuff like Sabal Minor. I wouldn't bat an eyelid leaving them outdoors all winter, providing they are in a sheltered, south facing spot that still gets decent sunlight. I have heard of potted Fortunei specimens surviving 10-15F in Scandinavia, without damage. So I wouldn't worry too much about mollycoddling them. Unless you are forecasted to be below freezing for like 48+ hours straight. Obviously you don't want the roots being frozen for days on end. But an overnight frost down to 15-20F shouldn't be an issue, providing you are not below freezing for more than a day or two straight. But at that size you can easily bring them indoors to play it safe anyway, say if it drops below 25F.

My Fortunei x Wagnerianus hybrid has been left outdoors every winter at 51N in an oversized pot, often with waterlogged soil and has never shown any damage. Then again, I also leave Phoenix Dactylifera seedlings outdoors all winter here in tiny, waterlogged pots with poor soil, and they still survive here... :mellow:

Those Trachy's get big as well. There are some pushing 50 feet just down the road from me... 

Screen Shot 2019-10-13 at 22.27.26.jpg

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oasis371

"Wow, does that stay out all year!?"

Yep!

Winters seem to be "evolving" up here in NJ. And the further north you go on earth, the bigger the temperature and precipitation anomalies. 

New Jersey (and some other states in the MidAtlantic and Northeast), have seen some of the biggest jumps in annual temperatures (and precipitation)  in the country and the world, this despite several years of "polar vortices" and record snows. (Offshore ocean waters also rising rapidly in Northeast). For whatever reason, the Southeast of the USA has been curiously BELOW normal (in terms of temperature)...,  for the time being.

Edited by oasis371
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TedNoah1
On 1/16/2020 at 11:07 PM, UK_Palms said:

Looking good, pal :greenthumb:

Trachycarpus Fortunei is about as hardy as you can get, besides stuff like Sabal Minor. I wouldn't bat an eyelid leaving them outdoors all winter, providing they are in a sheltered, south facing spot that still gets decent sunlight. I have heard of potted Fortunei specimens surviving 10-15F in Scandinavia, without damage. So I wouldn't worry too much about mollycoddling them. Unless you are forecasted to be below freezing for like 48+ hours straight. Obviously you don't want the roots being frozen for days on end. But an overnight frost down to 15-20F shouldn't be an issue, providing you are not below freezing for more than a day or two straight. But at that size you can easily bring them indoors to play it safe anyway, say if it drops below 25F.

My Fortunei x Wagnerianus hybrid has been left outdoors every winter at 51N in an oversized pot, often with waterlogged soil and has never shown any damage. Then again, I also leave Phoenix Dactylifera seedlings outdoors all winter here in tiny, waterlogged pots with poor soil, and they still survive here... :mellow:

Those Trachy's get big as well. There are some pushing 50 feet just down the road from me... 

Screen Shot 2019-10-13 at 22.27.26.jpg

Those trachys Are doing fabulous! Here, in the Virginia Beach area of Virginia, USA,  you see many of them! I’ve seen a. Couple about that y’all. I just moved up here from Florida in September, and had no idea there were so many households that had them. I just never see them potted. They’re always in the ground. This week we’ve had days in the upper-30s to mid-40s F, nights in the 20s F, not going below 28 F. Everyone has been left outside, waterlogged and seem fine. We did have frost  3 mornings though. I’m curious  – if there is cold damage on potted windmill palms, how quickly does that damage show up?

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TedNoah1
On 1/20/2020 at 3:47 PM, oasis371 said:

"Wow, does that stay out all year!?"

Yep!

Winters seem to be "evolving" up here in NJ. And the further north you go on earth, the bigger the temperature and precipitation anomalies. 

New Jersey (and some other states in the MidAtlantic and Northeast), have seen some of the biggest jumps in annual temperatures (and precipitation)  in the country and the world, this despite several years of "polar vortices" and record snows. (Offshore ocean waters also rising rapidly in Northeast). For whatever reason, the Southeast of the USA has been curiously BELOW normal (in terms of temperature)...,  for the time being.

I should have asked you if that was in the ground or potted. Either way, it looks great and exciting.
 

I’m actually from New Jersey, both Passaic County and Cape May County. Moved to Florida in 03, and Virginia Beach area this past Fall. I was quite excited to see so many palms around Virginia. Especially Windmill and Needle. I often see Sable and Jelly, but they don’t always seem to do as well. Seen a few Sago palms in the ground doing well. Growing up in New Jersey, I don’t remember seeing any windmill palms around Cape May or Wildwood! Just foolish establishments bringing in Queen and Coconuts. They’d be dead by Thanksgiving LOL.

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TedNoah1
On 1/20/2020 at 3:47 PM, oasis371 said:

"Wow, does that stay out all year!?"

Yep!

Winters seem to be "evolving" up here in NJ. And the further north you go on earth, the bigger the temperature and precipitation anomalies. 

New Jersey (and some other states in the MidAtlantic and Northeast), have seen some of the biggest jumps in annual temperatures (and precipitation)  in the country and the world, this despite several years of "polar vortices" and record snows. (Offshore ocean waters also rising rapidly in Northeast). For whatever reason, the Southeast of the USA has been curiously BELOW normal (in terms of temperature)...,  for the time being.

I should have asked you if that was in the ground or potted. Either way, it looks great and exciting.
 

I’m actually from New Jersey, both Passaic County and Cape May County. Moved to Florida in 03, and Virginia Beach area this past Fall. I was quite excited to see so many palms around Virginia. Especially Windmill and Needle. I often see Sable and Jelly, but they don’t always seem to do as well. Seen a few Sago palms in the ground doing well. Growing up in New Jersey, I don’t remember seeing any windmill palms around Cape May or Wildwood! Just foolish establishments bringing in Queen and Coconuts. They’d be dead by Thanksgiving LOL.

D3C99E22-B3FF-4D62-9FE3-50E6D93A6320.jpeg

F570118B-E3AD-4751-A084-D54C53F21C10.jpeg

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Allen
1 hour ago, TedNoah1 said:

This week we’ve had days in the upper-30s to mid-40s F, nights in the 20s F, not going below 28 F. Everyone has been left outside, waterlogged and seem fine. We did have frost  3 mornings though. I’m curious  – if there is cold damage on potted windmill palms, how quickly does that damage show up?

Frost doesn't hurt them but remember your's are freshly shipped/planted so they have some stress.  And are relatively small.  So I'd treat with kid gloves temp wise till full on spring.  But to answer your question pull the spear gently every couple weeks as it will rot/pull out during cold damage when weather warms around 1 month or more after damage.  Damage usually occurs with water freezing in spear area at temps below 21F and then fungus setting in on diseased tissue.  These palms will usually grow out of that if doused in hydrogen peroxide or copper fungicide after that.  When the palms get larger and more full sized trunks the spears are large and harder to rot out before they push out of the palm center if that makes sense.  So larger palms usually have spotted 'rot' on a spear instead of it pulling completely out.

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TedNoah1

Thanks so much, Allen! Again, very helpful stuff. I appreciate you taking the time to respond!

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TedNoah1

Hi everyone! My potted babies and one planted are all growing FAST! I do believe the potted ones may have some wind damage - it’s been a very windy winter here. They are on the porch and there’s no way to protect them.  Can someone confirm that’s what I’m seeing? 

3B99DD07-86E1-4BA4-BC59-EBD546ECD072.jpeg

CA37C786-AA88-4812-A3E3-4663AF14284E.jpeg

5F35A68E-3BB9-4E85-9345-0B85753D5B2D.jpeg

4D86450F-D9B4-42A2-8184-F1FA7BA71E02.jpeg

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