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Value of 2.7m Lipstick Palm?


David_Sweden

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I reached the point where my Lipstick Palm is too big for my apartment, which is 2.4m to the ceiling:

191120r.thumb.jpg.96ab355d4e9f6cb9f0c3b161a25cb7fb.jpg191027rcs.thumb.jpg.2d220330767983df3eb5c77069bab27c.jpg191019rcs.thumb.jpg.32741e36cea048e94fc5879bd92ae735.jpg190907rcs.thumb.jpg.2e4c719574e7c6662b24ed7c50fe4b96.jpg190907c.thumb.jpg.2c1985033bc57f0f70849145e15f00b0.jpg

405407334_Growth3years_.thumb.jpg.bb34cacbb1f27218e1692196a567eefa.jpg

It also has 4 stolons which reach outside the pot and more are on the way - probably each of these can eventually be cut off to start new palms:

Stolons.thumb.jpg.2d1257f8bfb551f247ff71566c7c2744.jpg

And my Rhopalostylis  baueri will also have to go now - reaches 15 cm below the ceiling but new fronds are more vertical at first and hit the ceiling so hard there is some damage before fully unfolded:

Baueri_h.thumb.jpg.cda7d2eb0c985ffa9a7fc3d41f3eec74.jpg

I suppose anyone who grows palms indoors will have to think of a plan what to do after a few years when they get too big. I had hoped to move to an apartment with more space but that does not seem to happen. And maybe also make some small changes to slow down growth a bit (natural changes, like a bit less light).

I already gave away a Kentia to a kind of botanical garden (Universeum) 2 years ago that got too big:

Kentia_r.thumb.jpg.c8ecd6a5f3e34d351b9a56a3e93285b6.jpg

But even a Kentia this size has a normal price tag of about €200 to 350 and rarer ones seem to usually cost at least twice as much. The Lipstick palm I think is a special case since I find nobody selling these in Europe, and since e g the reputable Palmbob considers this to be the most beautiful palm in the whole world. I'm thinking of trying to sell it to a luxury hotel, shopping center or commercial botanical garden for at least €1000, maybe €3000. Does that sound reasonable? Unfortunately I can't sell it at e g eBay in the winter.  

I'm also a bit concerned about by whom and how it will be managed. Shopping centers I bet have special "plant people" hired. It needs decent humidity (has had normally 40-50%RH with a peak of ~60% in the morning) and temperature, but I hope they have climate control that can manage this. Ordinary indoors air in Sweden in the winter will not do (can easily go down to 30%). And it needs good light, but I use two 70W ceramic metal halide spots which are intended for shops plus that they often have lots of glass. I also wonder if they realize and can handle if the soil needs to be swapped. For some reason Lipstick palms are really easy when it comes to roots and aeration in the senses that roots do not stick out the bottom more than 1 cm or so, and the roots seem to create a fine mesh that helps drainage because even though it is mostly peat (with ~25% seramis) it is very well drained. Peat will break down but so will any soil mix (some, like bark or coir, just a bit later). I wouldn't want to be the one to exchange all the soil although it might well be doable in a big tub.  And my Kentia was twice as old in almost 100% peat and less well draining so it might be long before soil breaks down in a bad way I'm guessing.

BTW the Lipstick is tilted a bit to the right! This is because when the last frond emerged on the main stem, I had to tilt it to the left to avoid damage (almost), and it stood like that for a few weeks, and when I erected it again, it had an angle to the right since it seems to have copnsated for my tilt. But since then, it has not un-tilted itself. Actually, the top front pointing to the right should point to the left.

Edited by David_Sweden
Correction
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In Sweden: Priceless? I sold two 3m red & green lipsticks 5-6 years ago for $200 each on eBay with free pickup. They were worth a lot more but I wanted to rehome them before winter. The problem is not only pricing it but being realistic about value and knowing if there is a market of informed palm lovers for it at your desired price. Only you have a concept of that. You may want to look into internet auction sites that might list it.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Wow! Impressive plants, I hope you will find new home for them. My choice would be botanical gardens before anything else.

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I agree, David. You really have the touch for growing palms indoors. A botanical garden route may be the way to go if you can't find a buyer. Could you write off its value with a receipt from such an organization? It would be a shame if you sold those beautiful palms to someone without the knowledge and ability to keep them alive.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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How about the Palm House (Palm Huset)? It shouldn't hit the ceiling there.

http://tradgardsforeningen.se/wps/portal/enhetssida/tradgardsforeningen/palmhuset/!ut/p/z1/nZDBCoJAFEW_pYVb35vRTNqNZokFmiDZbMJiGgN1xCyhr09qkxAh3d17nHMXFzikwKvsfpFZe1FVVvT3nlsHk66QBCZZh9HMRrawKbqGj7Zrwe4FRGTBiNkD6JMlsq1nhbFnIm6mwMf4OAhDJ6aOgbgK6T_-Z9M4_wfAf9cHwGWhju-pWHU0bAm8EWfRiEa_Nf07b9v6OtdQw67rdKmULIR-UqWG35RcXVtIhyTUZZIk6WMjdmzyBB_sl04!/dz/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/

https://www.goteborg.com/en/palmhuset/

I had the opportunity to visit The Palm House and surrounding gardens when I was in Göteborg in June 2002. I stayed in a hotel a few blocks away so it was a short walk. I spent a few hours checking out the glass house and the gardens. Cool place.

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I know. There are 3 houses with palm trees in Gothenburg: The Botanical Garden (owned by the region but financed 50% by fees, 50% by the region), the municipal "Palmhuset" (meaning "The Palm House") and Universeum (actually a kind of indoors amusement park with a big jungle section with lots of palm trees). And I gave my Kentia to Universeum. Didn't see it there though when I looked but I might have overlooked it and they said it might end up in the staff's coffe room..  When I gave the Kentia away I asked all 3.  The Botanical Garden was not interested. The Palm House never replied. BTW The Palm House already have a Rhopalostylis  sapida although much smaller than mine. Some palms there look a bit pitiful.. But all in all it's a nice place.

Thanks for all comments.

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11 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I agree, David. You really have the touch for growing palms indoors. A botanical garden route may be the way to go if you can't find a buyer. Could you write off its value with a receipt from such an organization? It would be a shame if you sold those beautiful palms to someone without the knowledge and ability to keep them alive.

Hear, hear!

Your potential (local) buyers for those specific plants are either: Botanical garden/ greenhouse nursery and/or an aficionado with a very tall ceiling.

 

 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Wow, such an amazing palm. I've seen them everywhere in Singapore, but nowhere else. 

How long did you have it and did you start from seed? What's the temperature in your house normally? My house is usually around 50% RH and I do have some humidifiers running for my aroids.. 

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Thanks. I bought it as a 90cm plant with just green leaves in June 2015, there is a pic above showing it at that date and in 2019, to scale. Temp is usually 22-23 degC. Was lucky to find one. It had mealy bugs though, but they all met a gruesome death. :evil:

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David, a few years ago, in the trade here in Holland I bought a Lipstick in your size for 35 euro's. So, if I were you, I would just look for a genuine palmenthousiast to pass it on and maybe trade it for something else? Good to see that Palms do well in your care!

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Free shipping to TN, USA?  Nice palm!!!!!!!!!!!

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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Thanks. Can't be shipped in the winter, this palm dies if subjected to below ~+10degC they say. Have stated humidity and soil already.

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16 hours ago, wimmie said:

David, a few years ago, in the trade here in Holland I bought a Lipstick in your size for 35 euro's.

35 euros??! That's crazy cheap. 

David, your palms are amazing! Even better looking than many specimens outdoors

Edited by Xenon

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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On 12/11/2019 at 10:16 AM, Xenon said:

35 euros??! That's crazy cheap. 

David, your palms are amazing! Even better looking than many specimens outdoors

Yes, that was crazy cheap indeed, even cheaper than Howea's of the same size.  Guess I was just a lucky guy!

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I now got reply from Palmhuset that they are not interested even for free (and this is even though they have a Rhopalostylis sapida half the size om my Rhopalostylis baueri and not nearly as nice).

Universeum is even stranger: Their "gardener" said they want "durable" plants so that they can cope with people, and that they focus on palms from South America. These palms are not less durable than any other, just require decent environment, which they probably easily can provide. The Lipstick they could even place in a pond for special effect. And focus on S America? How come they accepted my Kentia 2 years ago then? It comes from outside Australia just like Rhopalostylis baueri. The visitors certainly won't care what part of the world they come from,  they just want pretty exotic palms with different looks. Well, I know they don't have any palm course at the gardener's university SLU...

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2 hours ago, David_Sweden said:

I now got reply from Palmhuset that they are not interested even for free (and this is even though they have a Rhopalostylis sapida half the size om my Rhopalostylis baueri and not nearly as nice).

Universeum is even stranger: Their "gardener" said they want "durable" plants so that they can cope with people, and that they focus on palms from South America. These palms are not less durable than any other, just require decent environment, which they probably easily can provide. The Lipstick they could even place in a pond for special effect. And focus on S America? How come they accepted my Kentia 2 years ago then? It comes from outside Australia just like Rhopalostylis baueri. The visitors certainly won't care what part of the world they come from,  they just want pretty exotic palms with different looks. Well, I know they don't have any palm course at the gardener's university SLU...

Well if you can't sell it, can you chop off the main trunk and let the suckers grow? I've seen people do that with Bananas grown as houseplants.

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6 hours ago, Ittai Baratz said:

Well if you can't sell it, can you chop off the main trunk and let the suckers grow? I've seen people do that with Bananas grown as houseplants.

This is what I should and would have done had I really thought it through.

Retail nurseries in South Florida are selling Cyrtostachys renda the size of the one the original poster has for thousands of dollars.  It is a shame that there is not more of a market in Sweden.

Cyrtostachys renda tends to require equatorial tropical rainforest conditions and wet, rich soil to thrive.  Specific conditions for sure, but if the basic requirements are met, it is not a difficult palm to grow.  I would keep trying to sell it online within your country.

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Hm to cut off the main stem sounds kinda horrible. Or isn't it? Wouldn't that leave a big hole in the middle?

I wrote about Universeum and Palmhuset because I am flabbergasted about their complete lack of what would be a sensation and attraction and the pityfully unskilled gardener who imagines these trees are more delicate that others. Palmhuset have a few gigantic palms but most of them are tiny and unimpressive, they really should step up and have higher ambitions.

Anyway, for me this is a bigger, general issue: If one gets a small palm and is successful at growing it then after a few years it will be too big for your apartment so I need a plan for what to do at that point. I thought getting paid would be a good general plan, especially for a palm people repeatedly say can not be grown indoors, but more importantly to find a nice home for them. Otherwise I'd better stop having palm trees at all. Or stick to the few dwarf types any maybe some very slow growing ones.

My plan B would rather be to keep them until spring and then sell them at e g eBay, I'm sure it is easy to find buyers for the Baueri. The Renda many enthusiasts would want but outdoors conditions in Europe at best are a bit like California I think which is not good enough. So if not a botanical garden, hotel etc, then an enthusiast with a greenhouse or suitable house with climate control and plenty of room. I doubt I will find such a person within range in Sweden. In the spring I could maybe even ship it outside Europe to any place where customs won't stop it.

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I don't know about the botanical places you have mentioned, but these days most serious botanic gardens are very stringent about "accession," meaning provenance of the palm or the seed. The goal seems to be 1) to be able to show documented compliance with national and international regulations and 2) to have a pure product on display -- the real deal, from the source, not a hybrid, etc.  That said, I am not in any way educated as a botanist or scientist and may have misstated the purpose, but that is my impression. Gardens and zoos constantly get offers of donations but rarely accept them. And certainly, in your case, the challenge of keeping the palm healthy is beyond the will of the garden administrators to keep it alive.

I will chime in with others to say you have succeeded phenomenally where most have failed, with your exquisite Cyrtostachys renda.

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Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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Thanks. I could help them with compliance in the sense show receipt from eBay, I doubt the seller "seltene-pflanzen" imports them from outside Europe since he would get caught if doing it in the scale he has. Other than that I can't see any certificate etc being warranted within the EU. But I don't think these are the reasons. More likely it is bad management and/or gardeners, or gigantic ignorance. Palmhuset has lots of plants that were given and Universeum already got one and the manager was positive, the gardener not. "Botaniska" is smaller.

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These do need wet toes to thrive. Ours in Miami had slow growth in a 2 m wide, 2 m deep pit of specially prepared soil (combating Miami's alkaline soil) mix. After a year, following the experience at Fairchild Gardens, I moved them (in 10 gal containers) to a backyard fish pond edge submerged 10 cm or so. In two years I had to divide them and replant, the divisions(1.5 m) went for $300 each. 

I use the same guidance for my seedlings now. After sprouting they go in tubes, in about 3 cm of a moving water tray(all under light, indoors). They go outside in Deeppots after that. 

There are buyers all over who would want large ones. I sold a set to a enthusiast in Upstate New York. I warned him about the temperature requirement. "No  problem, he had a tropical pool & arboretum at the center of his restaurant." 

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Where is the tropical paradise? Can not ship it in the winter, it is too cold.

I had a seedling too before which i sold. My experience with the seedling is clear: Sure u can keep it wet but it works equally well to treat it like most other plants i e water when (slightly) moist. Requirement for wet feet i think is a myth or exaggeration. But sure better too much than too little.

The same goes for my big Renda although last few months i have seen some unexpected brown tips, my theory is maybe soil is partially a bit dry but am not sure. I use one of them cheap moisture meters, only way to get a pic of moisture deep down, but pot is so deep now it doesnt reach everywhere

Edited by David_Sweden
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  • 1 month later...

By now I at least got 2 replies from sensible persons: The Botanical Garden in Gothenburg would be interested if it wasn't for that they are building new greenhouses at the same spot where it is today which means relocating all plants step by step the next few years so they won't add to the collection. And the Botanical Garden in Uppsala say they can't pay anything and that they can't arrange transportation in the immediate future. So if anyone knows a way to get them from Göteborg to Uppsala for free then let me know..

I could put an ad at e g eBay (or the Swedish version "Tradera") but I don't think there's a good way to assure the buyer is suitable. And even less a way to adjust price depending on buyer, e g I could give them away if it was for a public Botanical Garden but if it is a wealthy collector he would not get them for free..

The solution that makes most sense is to keep them until spring when I believe I can find buyers at e g eBay. But i will be tricky to manage handling both transport and to care for them for about 4 months in this smaller apartment, and even more since I can't move them straight from here to the new flat.

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Maybe a shopping mall or a hotel with a high ceiling lobby would be interested. But if I were you, I'd try to keep the clustering ones by cutting the largest stems.

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I e-mailed 4 shopping malls and 5 luxury hotels Dec 12th with reminder Jan 11th but no response. With the reminder I required "read receipt" and got 4 (people can say no to receipts) but all were delivered. I don't think any one of them is likely to be capable of handling the Lipstick palm well but the Baueri should be very suitable. Guess I could call them but would take lots of time and I'm busy moving, and would expect them to show interest..

Don't know why people talk about chopping the main stem off.  I can see several reasons why not:  it is ~5 cm wide at the lower part plus all the fronds emerging from there so it would leave a big gap, at least 10cm; I couldn't cut it close to the soil and hardly even use a saw since it is impossible to avoid the other stems then, there are plenty of them; and finally, what is beautiful is the red stems and chopping the main stem off would put me back in time by years, it has reached a point when there's so much red stems it looks quite nice but if I every few years cut off the biggest stem then most of the time it would not look very nice. No, it should be somewhere with minimum 3 m to the ceiling.

A major general disappointment from my point of view though is that if it is this hard to find buyers or even takers of big palms then what is the point of growing palms indoors at all? It felt good to no longer be the "killer of palms" like everyone else, I know how Kentias are produced in assembly line factories and even IKEA sell big amounts of this and other palms, and they don't last very long and don't grow very big in general because most people don't know much about how to treat even the easiest palms. I could help people learn how to treat palms and even help introducing more types but why should I, it would just mean lots of big palms ending up at dumps. Better to stick to dwarf types then, and maybe some really slow growing ones like Coccothrinax.

On the other hand there are sellers in Europe of big palms, several in Germany like Palme Per Paket and Palmenhandel with at least 9m high palms, and several rather big in Spain selling over eBay. So there seems to be a market. Palmenhandel I assume must sell the big ones to institutions and companies mainly.

Edited by David_Sweden
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I found a company in Germany who want the Lipstick palm. However I checked prices to ship these palms. DHL Express allow up to 3 metres and I estimate these to require about 300x50x50cm however cost is over €2000 (doesn't matter if 100 kg or 50 kg, price is due to volume)! Should I cut it to 1,8m cost would still be a bit over €1000! And Schenker don't allow >120cm from private persons.

I used to have a company and I know if you are a customer, you get much lower prices, big companies with good deals pay a fraction. In any case, this stops any chance of selling these over eBay. The recipient would have to be a company with a good deal at DHL or other.

I don't know if eBay themselves offer good shipping options. Can't find anyone at ebay.co.uk selling palms >2m outside the UK. Since I don't like in the UK I doubt they offer any help at all. Meaning I can't use eBay to sell palms this size. Well eBay is quite horrible for sellers anyway.

Edited by David_Sweden
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On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 4:12 AM, David_Sweden said:

w why people talk about chopping the main stem off.  I can see several reasons why not:  it is ~5 cm wide at the lower part plus all the fronds emerging from there so it would leave a big gap, at least 10cm; I couldn't cut it close to

The main reason to cut it would be: you can keep the plant. The option (if you don't find a new home to it) is seeing it perish in the cold outside your home.

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I totally disagree on that point. If one manages to make palms do well in an apartment, within a few years it will become too big, so one should have a plan for that. My plan A was to move to an apartment with 3 m to the ceiling and then give it light fewer hours so that it would last maybe several years more. But as it turns out I am moving to another flat with standard height 2,4 m. Also, even with a 3 m ceiling flat they will eventually reach the ceiling. And even today they are becoming hard to manage with a 24 L pot 39 x 39 cm, my way of flushing plants is to put them on top of a bucket and flush and that is hard and heavy now, requires some space to the ceiling and even the bucket looks like it would give in if bigger. And to be honest, such big palms look awesome and majestic in an airy space but crowded in here.

If I was to keep a C renda in a 2,4 m apartment and cut main stems maybe every 3 years then during each 3 year period it would most of the time look quite disappointing. In fact, even now I consider it as being "almost at full potential"  when it comes to looks. With a 3 m ceiling it would reach what I would call full potential when it comes to looks, with an impressively big amount of red stems.

It's a pity that I failed to get an apartment with higher ceiling and have to move in the middle of the winter with C renda hating cold temps (some say it dies if below +5C some +10C). 

My plan B, after completion of plan A, I expected to be way off in the future and would involve finding a good home, either in e g  a botanical garden or sell it e g on eBay. It is disappointing to see the shipping costs and I used to have a company so I know that as a company customer you get much lower rates and more options but companies with big shipping volumes get even much lower rates, that's how it works.

And imagine if I was able to teach people (ordinary persons, not the ones in this forum) how to properly take care of their Kentias and Arecas etc which today are small and declining only to die after a few years, it would mean tremendous amounts of  big palms every year with nowhere to go. Well I suppose one way to overcome that is if people change to growing only dwarf types, and cold-hardy ones which can be put in European gardens, and rarer types which e g botanical gardens and hotels would welcome, especially slow-growing types, i e not so many Kentias anymore. But if I can't arouse an interest with a C renda this size and a R baueri then it looks really dark on the botanical garden & hotel front as well as the eBay front. 

I have looked over what the shopping malls and luxurious hotels look like around here and I have to say shopping malls are not suitable for R baueri since it is more wide than high and they don't have wide empty areas, they would rather want plants that don't spread much except in height. And some hotels are "old style" in old buildings and quite narrow-ish. But many newer ones have vast open areas and look like they are yearning for a R baueri, I will talk to some of those today.

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  • 2 months later...

I have been busy moving to a different city and starting at a new job but I thought I'd post how this all went. In short, it ended quite happily for the palms. They are now in a sort of "private botanical garden" (actually it is a big block of apartments for 55+ year olds where the center is a glass enclosed park with paths etc):

Resized_20200213_151247.thumb.jpg.b245628d2492dd2b9de27294eb5186ea.jpg

Resized_20200213_151316.thumb.jpg.6e271c9c106beb6eb2057bcb94491d6a.jpg

The story before I got to that point is long:

I e-mailed all botanical gardens etc in Sweden, and a bunch of luxury hotels and shopping centers, and I followed up by e-mail or phone, and on foot visited most of the luxury hotels. I also checked possibility to ship it domstically or within Europe but it is too expensive if even allowed when you don't have a company. And I contacted two major German companies that sell big palms in parcels over the internet. One is Palme Per Paket whose owner Tobias I believe is a member here and he himself replied that if it was hotter outside he would have no problem finding a buyer for me but in winter it requires a heated transporter which costs thousands of Euros, I find that a serious reply and I have full respect for that. The other German company offered to pay me €200 (initially I should pay for transport too but they skipped that eventually) if I cut them at 2.2 metres and put a chemical heater inside.  This would be the only way for me to earn some money but I decided against it, it all seemed rather reckless.

I then contacted hotels also in the city I was moving to and cities in between. After talking to one of them on the phone I realized most (but not all) hotels and shopping centers etc with palms or other plants use special firms (interior decorators) for handling the plants. I found at least half a dozen active in my city and e-mailed them and got some negative responses and some gave no response so I followed up by e-mail or phone. One of the ones who said no I replied to and then after an hour they called me and said they were interested (but couldn't pay anything). A pity to get no money considering what they are worth and the effort put into them but a nice home is the most important thing so they came and picked them up a couple of days before I moved out.

I hope the Lipstick Palm will "do it's thing" and create suckers and stolons like crazy (like it already was well on the way of doing), it would be a sight if this was to fill a whole section by itself, they could sell tickets..

Lessons learned I think is:

  • Avoid having to sell or give away palms in the winter in Sweden, make sure it is the hot months
  • Do not grow big palms indoors if they are not extremely uncommon so that there could be interest among companies that work all day long with more common plants
  • Best idea is to grow only dwarf type palms, of which there are not many (just a few percent of all palms are dwarfs I think)
  • Another plausible idea could be to grow extremely slow growing palms, at least if they are very rare
  • It is in reality not possible to ship big palms within Europe due to the cost, most transporters don't even allow it for private persons, so you can forget about e-bay and the like
  • Only chance to ship it is if to a company who is a big customer with a transporter because they have much lower rates and can be allowed to send very big boxes
  • If you feel like driving your car to Europe maybe you can sell it and offer transportation, then it must be a type that can live in e g the Mediterranean Europe
  • You can't trust Botanical Gardens and the like to be interested. Like in this case when I had given a Kentia Palm the same size and now they had a new gardener at Universeum with serious issues in palm knowledge who said no to this once-in-a-lifetime offer. That is a commercial company. Botanical Gardens in general often have very limited funds which besides no being able to pay can also make it impossible for them to find transport (at least if in a hurry) or to even find space for it.
Edited by David_Sweden
Lessons learned
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@David_Sweden!

Holy cow, as we say. That is a most magnificent lipstick palm. If I could scream obscenities of delight in Swedish, I'd do it . . . . :)

SO GLAD you were able to find a home for it. I agree with @Darold Petty, your diligence was exemplary!

Keep us apprised of how your babies and doing.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

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Thanks! I hope I can go there and get a sucker or stolon in the future maybe. 

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At least spring is around the corner, so you can transport it. Good luck.

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Great work David, very heartening to see an indoor c. renda success story from beginning to end! It would sure be awesome if you could continue to document your lipstick in it's current home, I'd love to see pics of it in a few years getting huge under that skylight :D

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