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TexasColdHardyPalms

Two days of 21-22f in north TX

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TexasColdHardyPalms

It was a record tying cold for us early November with very unusual cold so early in the year.  We have since had a few weeks of 70-82F weather so all the damage is showing.  This storm had 36hrs of 20-40mph wind and the first morning we dropped to 22F and only warmed to 38.  The second morning was a very heavy frost and dropped to 21F.  

Cycas Diannensis burned

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Cycas Revoluta x Micholitzii on left, Revoluta x Debaoensis in center, Diannensis on Right

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Panzhihuensis x debao on far left, bifida , debaoensis and then another hybrid that I can't remember off the top of my head.

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Here is an interesting group of Cycas Taitungensis.  They are slightly more sheltered from the wind but they have been exposed to 3 years of VERY cold temperatures.  The newer ones in subsequent pictures you will see are defoliated.

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Cycas Guizhihuensis are great plants.  Zero burn on them.

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Encephalartos Villosus.  The longifolius and all ferox are defoliated.

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Allogoptera Arenaria all defoliated.  

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Sagos from South Texas that have never seen cold weather before.  None of the sagos grown here had any burn whatsoever.

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Only the new flushes on Ceratozamia Hildae burned

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Ceratozamia bed.  Everything looks great

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Fresh C. Kuesteriana flush that didn't burn.  This was a huge surprise as even new Cycas Panzhihuensis flushes burned. It appears that Kuesteriana is the hardiest ceratozamia leaf wise.

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Another soft Kuesteriana flush that was unscathed.

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New Hildae flush that burned.  Too bad..

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Another fresh Kuesteriana flush.

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Not all Hildae are created equal.  This flush is very soft and didn't burn.

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And another Hildae fresh flush.

20191124_160953.jpg

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

Sheesh =/ was this to be expected for those species at that temp ? 

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Brahea Armata right beside the Nitida and Phoenix Dactylifera.  No cold damage

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This is what happens when you have dates that spend most of their life in a cold frame and not exposed to cold.  This was a big surprise as no other dates showed any burn whatsoever.

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Livistona Nitida - Ones in the ground are flawless.  This area has zero protection from wind, frost, etc.  Only a couple spearpulled and a few look like nothing happened.  Most have substantial bronzing on them. 

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Cycas Revolta x Debaoensis.  first year they have been exposed to cold.

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Cycas revoluta.  Been here a long time, zero damage compared to the ones in above photos.  They are exposed to more frost than the others too.

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Group of Nitida

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TexasColdHardyPalms

@Meangreen94z This Dioon Post is for you.

D. Caputoi  Frost is what nuked these Dioon..

20191124_155059.jpg

Stephensonii is the least hardy Dioon

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Here are Dioon. Edule Quereterro Blue sourced from Florida.  This is their first year outside and they all burned because they had never seen anything below 28F before.  

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Closeup of burn

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Here are our Edule that we have had for many years.  They have seen down to 8F in years past.

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D. Argenteum.  One leaf green. Again the frost is what really hurt them.

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D. Califanoi. The hardiest non Edule Dioon.

20191124_155038.jpg

 

 

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Allen

Ouch sorry dude!  That cold snap was crazy for Nov.  I had to wrap my palms.  We hit 14F but I didn't know how low we'd go.  Last year the low for the ENTIRE year here was 16F

Edited by Allen

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TexasColdHardyPalms

What hurts the most is that everything was actively growing ~ especially those allogoptera and new ceratozamia flushes. We will be 80 again today...

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TexasColdHardyPalms

The ones in the ground are in perfect condition, just more purple/magenta than before.

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RyManUtah

Wow that’s a bit of Damage :unsure: Sorry dude

 

im glad the see the nitida are surviving those temps. That’s a palm I’m been considering for a nutz 

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Meangreen94z

Thanks, I think it only hit 30-31*F locally. It didn’t look to be that bad but, I shifted some stuff in the garage and under the porch. The Dioon I pushed under large shrubs/an oak tree. The cactus/agave in the ground were all left exposed. Nothing received any damage, as I hoped. 

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TexasColdHardyPalms
31 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

Wow that’s a bit of Damage :unsure: Sorry dude

 

im glad the see the nitida are surviving those temps. That’s a palm I’m been considering for a nutz 

Nitida would make it in St. George without issue.  You will need to water it quite a bit for the first four years if you want them to grow quickly.

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UK_Palms
3 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

What hurts the most is that everything was actively growing ~ especially those allogoptera and new ceratozamia flushes. We will be 80 again today...

How the hell can you go from a freezing cold 20F in mid November, all the way back up to a very warm 80F by the end of the month!? A 60F swing in the space of a few days is just unbelievable. And shouldn't it get progressively colder, not warmer, as we move further into winter? :bemused:

Clearly I am not accustomed to a continental climate and it's extremes. The lowest I have seen this month here is around 29-30F, but the temperature hasn't risen above 60F during that time either.  No damage to anything here yet. 

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TexasColdHardyPalms
33 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

How the hell can you go from a freezing cold 20F in mid November, all the way back up to a very warm 80F by the end of the month!? A 60F swing in the space of a few days is just unbelievable. And shouldn't it get progressively colder, not warmer, as we move further into winter? :bemused:

Clearly I am not accustomed to a continental climate and it's extremes. The lowest I have seen this month here is around 29-30F, but the temperature hasn't risen above 60F during that time either.  No damage to anything here yet. 

We have 60 degree swings in a matter of 4-8 hours multiple times a decade. It isn't unusual.  We have been in the 80's the days in between Christmas to New Years and have record highs of 90F observed in every single month of the year.

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NCFM
43 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

How the hell can you go from a freezing cold 20F in mid November, all the way back up to a very warm 80F by the end of the month!? A 60F swing in the space of a few days is just unbelievable. And shouldn't it get progressively colder, not warmer, as we move further into winter? :bemused:

Clearly I am not accustomed to a continental climate and it's extremes. The lowest I have seen this month here is around 29-30F, but the temperature hasn't risen above 60F during that time either.  No damage to anything here yet. 

I remember seeing you argue with some others about England’s southern coast climate. Do you still have the same opinion?

Edited by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

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UK_Palms
1 hour ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

I remember seeing you argue with some others about England’s southern coast climate. Do you still have the same opinion?

Wait, what...? Why even mention this again? :hmm:

I'm definitely not arguing with anyone here. I was simply stating that a 60F swing in temperature seems crazy to me, going from 20F to 80F... given that I am used to an extremely temperate climate here, with little variation or extremes. For instance, my high today was 54F and my forecasted low tonight is 52F. A deviation of 2F. So to hear that someone has 60F swings, specifically recording 20F early on in November, before hitting 80F+ later on in the month, is pretty surprising and intriguing to me at the same time.

I have nothing but respect for @TexasColdHardyPalms for his palm growing endeavours in a climate that can go from one extreme to the other. And he has certainly done a good job over the years. I'm certainly not trying to talk smack or anything. Unlike yourself, bringing up a previous controversial topic when it clearly isn't relevant. I'm guessing you have an opinion about my own climate as well then, because a few others certainly have. And like them, you feel the need to keep raising this...

 

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Meangreen94z

Yeah, I say let’s try to enjoy each other’s opinion on this website. There’s not too many plant/gardening websites that receive the frequent traffic of palmtalk.org , especially from all points of the globe. England is a beautiful country that I hope to make it back to, some day soon.

Edited by Meangreen94z
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NCFM
1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Wait, what...? Why even mention this again? :hmm:

I'm definitely not arguing with anyone here. I was simply stating that a 60F swing in temperature seems crazy to me, going from 20F to 80F... given that I am used to an extremely temperate climate here, with little variation or extremes. For instance, my high today was 54F and my forecasted low tonight is 52F. A deviation of 2F. So to hear that someone has 60F swings, specifically recording 20F early on in November, before hitting 80F+ later on in the month, is pretty surprising and intriguing to me at the same time.

I have nothing but respect for @TexasColdHardyPalms for his palm growing endeavours in a climate that can go from one extreme to the other. And he has certainly done a good job over the years. I'm certainly not trying to talk smack or anything. Unlike yourself, bringing up a previous controversial topic when it clearly isn't relevant. I'm guessing you have an opinion about my own climate as well then, because a few others certainly have. And like them, you feel the need to keep raising this...

 

I did not mean to be divisive or start anything at all, rather I wanted to hear your opinion on Southern England’s climate which I’ve heard has been changing in the recent years. I have no opinion on it because I’ve never been there to experience it, however I wanted to gain some first hand knowledge from someone who lives and cultivates palms there. I meant no harm 

Edited by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

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Tropicdoc
9 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The ones in the ground are in perfect condition, just more purple/magenta than before.

Wait, what?! Does that mean Bismarckia is reliable in zone 9a? I may have to get me a few!

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Meangreen94z

Yes, definitely zone 9a friendly. They are all over South Houston and survived 18-19*F w/ ice in January 2018

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Chester B

60f swing can be hard not only on palms but to migraine sufferers. 
 

what I wouldn’t do to be able to grow a bizzie. So close but I’m sure even the 9a zones in Oregon by the coast would be suitable as they are too wet and cool for these guys. 

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UK_Palms
11 minutes ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

I did not mean to be divisive or start anything at all, rather I wanted to hear your opinion on Southern England’s climate which I’ve heard has been changing in the recent years. I have no opinion on it because I’ve never been there to experience it, however I wanted to gain some first hand knowledge from someone who lives and cultivates palms there. I meant no harm 

Apologies man. I feared the worst when I saw this comment pop up. I was thinking 'oh no, here we go again'. But I can see that you mean well now. 

Regarding my climate, I stand by what I have previously said on here. It is a mild/temperate oceanic climate here, which borders on being a warm-summer Mediterranean climate most years now. I am 30 miles inland, unlike London and the south coast, and temperatures nudge 100F most years here. I recorded 102F this year and 101F last year. We can experience temperatures in the 90s F from June-August and there are usually 3-4 weeks of drought during mid summer, although there were 10 weeks straight of drought in summer 2018 and average highs of 85F in July. This again is indicative of a Mediterranean climate. But autumn - spring is relatively cool and damp here. 

Rainfall is well below the global average at 18 inches a year for me here and it is extremely light, but it is still pretty 'gloomy' and overcast year-round, with only around 1,850 hours of sunshine a year here. The south coast gets around 2,000 hours and the northwest of the UK only gets around 1,300 hours, which makes my 1,850 hours seem much better than it really is. The biggest issue is the short days in winter, being at 51N, meaning we only get 8 hours of daylight in late December. The 16 hour nights can pose a problem when it is clear skies allowing the temperatures to really drop, but we rarely see anything too extreme. We only really suffer from radiation frosts due to clear skies in winter, as opposed to freezes from extreme cold fronts. There's no polar vortex's so to speak, despite being at 51N, as we are protected by the Atlantic, the Gulf stream and the fact we are an island, cut off from the European continent.

The absolute lowest I have ever seen 30 miles inland here is around 12F, but last year my lowest was a relatively timid 22F. London and the south coast on the other hand didn't drop below 27-28F last winter. Those places have large, mature CIDP's that are fruiting and self seeding with many young offshoots present in places. The same can be said for Washingtonia Robusta as well, which is a bit more touch and go for me in my inland location. Although mine has survived 4 years here, with only 1 defoliation (which it came back from). Filibusta and Filifera however seem to grow fine here though, along with Chamaerops and various Phoenix species. As do the Queens, surprisingly. Pretty much all my palms have exceeded my expectations in my climate. 

In regards to climate change, the biggest issues that I have noticed is that we have far more summer heat and days above 95F now, and rainfall has also become increasingly erratic with droughts in the spring and summer. Whereas Oct-Dec has become increasingly wetter, with heavier rainfalls, which again is akin to a Mediterranean climate. That's not to say that we are a proper Mediterranean climate though. But I am adamant that my location borders on a warm-summer Med climate these days.

Regards

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UK_Palms
41 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

Yes, definitely zone 9a friendly. They are all over South Houston and survived 18-19*F w/ ice in January 2018

 

22 minutes ago, Chester B said:

what I wouldn’t do to be able to grow a bizzie. So close but I’m sure even the 9a zones in Oregon by the coast would be suitable as they are too wet and cool for these guys. 

 

I'm 8b/9a here, but I'm not convinced I would get a Bizzie through winter in my inland location. Even if they survive my absolute winter lows of say 20F, they would have to deal with 3 months straight of temperatures below 60F, unlike in the south and eastern parts of the US where you guys warm up well into the 70s, in between the cold spells. So that sustained cold throughout winter, combined with potentially 8b lows, probably makes a Bizzie a step too far for me here.

Although saying that, I know they have some growing in London and the south coast, but those places are solid 9b most years, and still 9a during bad winters there. I'm tempted to try one though.

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Meangreen94z

Seeds are relatively cheap, and they are fast growers. I would give them a shot, it wouldn’t be a massive loss going that method.

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
19 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

Seeds are relatively cheap, and they are fast growers. I would give them a shot, it wouldn’t be a massive loss going that method.

That's exactly how I feel about all the palms I will try and zone push with. Growing from seed you really only lose time if they don't make it plus you will have so many to try in different locations and back ups if you get a freak freeze 

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UK_Palms
19 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

That's exactly how I feel about all the palms I will try and zone push with. Growing from seed you really only lose time if they don't make it plus you will have so many to try in different locations and back ups if you get a freak freeze 

I find from a batch of seeds you will always get a few plants that are far stronger than the rest, or have far better cold hardiness, or specifically wet-cold resistance, or just better growth speed and better traits in general. That is one advantage of starting a large seed batch.

I suppose you can ween out the underperforming ones and select the tougher ones. As opposed to buying an average, or not so tough specimen from a store or website. That way you end up with stronger plants with better vigour and traits that are more suited for your environment.

I did this with my Washingtonia Filibusta's, of which I had 30 seedlings that were culled down to 10 after a few months. The stronger, healthier seedlings far outperformed the rest, with 5 of the original 30 being scrawny little scragglers and another 10-15 not performing as well as the others. I went through a similar process with my Dactylifera seedlings, keeping only the strongest ones. 

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RyManUtah
9 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Nitida would make it in St. George without issue.  You will need to water it quite a bit for the first four years if you want them to grow quickly.

Thanks for the info. I’ve been looking into Nitita or Decora for a future poolside specimen. 

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@UK_Palms All great points on the reasons to grow your own =) 

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NCFM
14 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Apologies man. I feared the worst when I saw this comment pop up. I was thinking 'oh no, here we go again'. But I can see that you mean well now. 

Regarding my climate, I stand by what I have previously said on here. It is a mild/temperate oceanic climate here, which borders on being a warm-summer Mediterranean climate most years now. I am 30 miles inland, unlike London and the south coast, and temperatures nudge 100F most years here. I recorded 102F this year and 101F last year. We can experience temperatures in the 90s F from June-August and there are usually 3-4 weeks of drought during mid summer, although there were 10 weeks straight of drought in summer 2018 and average highs of 85F in July. This again is indicative of a Mediterranean climate. But autumn - spring is relatively cool and damp here. 

Rainfall is well below the global average at 18 inches a year for me here and it is extremely light, but it is still pretty 'gloomy' and overcast year-round, with only around 1,850 hours of sunshine a year here. The south coast gets around 2,000 hours and the northwest of the UK only gets around 1,300 hours, which makes my 1,850 hours seem much better than it really is. The biggest issue is the short days in winter, being at 51N, meaning we only get 8 hours of daylight in late December. The 16 hour nights can pose a problem when it is clear skies allowing the temperatures to really drop, but we rarely see anything too extreme. We only really suffer from radiation frosts due to clear skies in winter, as opposed to freezes from extreme cold fronts. There's no polar vortex's so to speak, despite being at 51N, as we are protected by the Atlantic, the Gulf stream and the fact we are an island, cut off from the European continent.

The absolute lowest I have ever seen 30 miles inland here is around 12F, but last year my lowest was a relatively timid 22F. London and the south coast on the other hand didn't drop below 27-28F last winter. Those places have large, mature CIDP's that are fruiting and self seeding with many young offshoots present in places. The same can be said for Washingtonia Robusta as well, which is a bit more touch and go for me in my inland location. Although mine has survived 4 years here, with only 1 defoliation (which it came back from). Filibusta and Filifera however seem to grow fine here though, along with Chamaerops and various Phoenix species. As do the Queens, surprisingly. Pretty much all my palms have exceeded my expectations in my climate. 

In regards to climate change, the biggest issues that I have noticed is that we have far more summer heat and days above 95F now, and rainfall has also become increasingly erratic with droughts in the spring and summer. Whereas Oct-Dec has become increasingly wetter, with heavier rainfalls, which again is akin to a Mediterranean climate. That's not to say that we are a proper Mediterranean climate though. But I am adamant that my location borders on a warm-summer Med climate these days.

Regards

Very interesting, I never knew England experienced temperatures that high. For some reason most in the US think the UK is always rainy and cool, but it seems that's not necessarily true for your part of the Island. What kind of palms have you been able to establish over there?

I live in the foothills of the Southern Appalachians in Western North Carolina (7b/a) - so my palm choices are pretty limited. The most common palms in my neck of the woods are trachycarpus fortunei, sabal palmetto, sabal minor, and rhapidophyllum hystrix however I have seen some other, less hardy species such as butia odorata successfully established here as well.  Our long, hot and humid summers help with that. The eastern part of NC (lower elevation and closer to the coast) is much more palm friendly, however. That part of the state is hotter overall and shorter, milder winters are experienced. It is considered 8b/a, but as you are seeing in Surrey, over the last 20 years or so our climate has been getting warmer and warmer. Sabal palmetto and sabal minor are native to the NC coast along with some species of yucca, and many different non-native species are also cultivated there including butia ordata, CIDP, cycads, washingtonia filifera,  and countless others. NC is considered humid subtropical - live oak, spanish moss, longleaf pine, southern magnolia, and bald cypress are a few of the many kinds of subtropical vegetation native to eastern NC.

Are there any other palms you've been able to establish where you live that you think I might be able to grow over here? I'm relatively new to palm cultivation so any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Edited by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

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SailorBold

Wow.. awesome collection! They all seem to be doing well... In your opinion.. which are the hardiest types?  The Ceratozamia look great.. that's one I've never thought of as hardy. 

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RJ
17 minutes ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Very interesting, I never knew England experienced temperatures that high. For some reason most in the US think the UK is always rainy and cool, but it seems that's not necessarily true for your part of the Island. What kind of palms have you been able to establish over there?

I live in the foothills of the Southern Appalachians in Western North Carolina (7b/a) - so my palm choices are pretty limited. The most common palms in my neck of the woods are trachycarpus fortunei, sabal palmetto, sabal minor, and rhapidophyllum hystrix however I have seen some other, less hardy species such as butia odorata successfully established here as well.  Our long, hot and humid summers help with that. The eastern part of NC (lower elevation and closer to the coast) is much more palm friendly, however. That part of the state is hotter overall and shorter, milder winters are experienced. It is considered 8b/a, but as you are seeing in Surrey, over the last 20 years or so our climate has been getting warmer and warmer. Sabal palmetto and sabal minor are native to the NC coast along with some species of yucca, and many different non-native species are also cultivated there including butia ordata, CIDP, cycads, washingtonia filifera,  and countless others. NC is considered humid subtropical - live oak, spanish moss, longleaf pine, southern magnolia, and bald cypress are a few of the many kinds of subtropical vegetation native to eastern NC.

Are there any other palms you've been able to establish where you live that you think I might be able to grow over here? I'm relatively new to palm cultivation so any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I'm surprised actually that you have established Butia that far north. That's pretty impressive. Heck I'm amazed how much cooler Charlotte is then us at only two hours north of me. Although they're double the elevation I'm at. 

 

Regarding Texas: Parts of Texas has some of the most challenging palm growing climate in the states. Huge temp swigs that we don't get nearly as bad here in the SE. 

Edited by RJ
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Chester B
13 hours ago, Ryagra said:

Thanks for the info. I’ve been looking into Nitita or Decora for a future poolside specimen. 

I got a nitida from @TexasColdHardyPalms that I will be putting in the ground here this upcoming summer  to test and I'll keep you updated. I decided to let it grow out for a year before I find a home for it.  I do know that @Palm crazy tried one in Olympia but failed, but he gets more rain from me and is have a growing zone colder.  For the very small investment I say go for it.

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RyManUtah
1 minute ago, Chester B said:

I got a nitida from @TexasColdHardyPalms that I will be putting in the ground here this upcoming summer  to test and I'll keep you updated. I decided to let it grow out for a year before I find a home for it.  I do know that @Palm crazy tried one in Olympia but failed, but he gets more rain from me and is have a growing zone colder.  For the very small investment I say go for it.

Thanks! It will be a year or two down the road, but I could also grow one out a bit in the meantime. I’m drafting my Pool design to get a permit soon. It will be a good chunk of time, because I’m building it myself. 
 

it will be nice to have something “different” to accent the pool view than everyone else has. That’s why I’m looking at these. Please keep me updated. :greenthumb:

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NCFM
31 minutes ago, RJ said:

I'm surprised actually that you have established Butia that far north. That's pretty impressive. Heck I'm amazed how much cooler Charlotte is then us at only two hours north of me. Although they're double the elevation I'm at. 

 

Regarding Texas: Parts of Texas has some of the most challenging palm growing climate in the states. Huge temp swigs that we don't get nearly as bad here in the SE. 

The butias in my part of the state are few and far between, but there are still a few. In eastern NC they’re all over the place (as you probably already know), I’d say second most common behind sabal palmetto. Yeah Charlotte (761ft) and Columbia (292ft) are very different elevation wise, I’d say a city like Fayetteville NC is much more similar to Columbia’s elevation and distance from the coast. Both of those cities are nuclear hot in the summer, that’s for sure.

Edited by NC_Palm_Enthusiast
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Silas_Sancona

 

1 hour ago, RJ said:

Regarding Texas: Parts of Texas has some of the most challenging palm growing climate in the states. Huge temp swigs that we don't get nearly as bad here in the SE. 

Agree 100%,  Texas weather,  is crazy .... weather, lol..  though the weather in both  Kansas and Oklahoma can be just as crazy.  Have seen it be cloudy/ drizzly and stuck in the 40s overhead in Lawrence ( N.E. KS ) and clear, 100F and windy just a couple hundred miles to the west.  

 Experienced a taste of " Texas extremes " when I took a trip to visit a friend going to school at Texas A&M one year over his spring break in March. Left Ohio, cold, as is to be expected.. In the 80s and humid with " Texas -sized"  rain showers as I got to College Station.. Stayed in the 80s/ low 90s the rest of the week I was there though South Padre was somewhat cooler when I'd visited. On the day I headed back north, cold front had dropped highs back down into the 60s in College Station. By the time I reached Tyler, was in the 40s. Had to detour my route home due to an approaching ice storm / flash flooding in Missouri.  Believe same storm was producing snow/ ice to my west / southwest in Texas at the same time. 

It's amazing how having no mountains to impede or slow down cold air headed south from the north, and being so close to the tropics that all that tropical air can be tapped/ pulled north, as often as possible, so easily  creates such a wildly variable climate as what is seen in Texas / across the plains. 

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Jeff985
3 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 

Agree 100%,  Texas weather,  is crazy .... weather, lol..  though the weather in both  Kansas and Oklahoma can be just as crazy.  Have seen it be cloudy/ drizzly and stuck in the 40s overhead in Lawrence ( N.E. KS ) and clear, 100F and windy just a couple hundred miles to the west.  

 Experienced a taste of " Texas extremes " when I took a trip to visit a friend going to school at Texas A&M one year over his spring break in March. Left Ohio, cold, as is to be expected.. In the 80s and humid with " Texas -sized"  rain showers as I got to College Station.. Stayed in the 80s/ low 90s the rest of the week I was there though South Padre was somewhat cooler when I'd visited. On the day I headed back north, cold front had dropped highs back down into the 60s in College Station. By the time I reached Tyler, was in the 40s. Had to detour my route home due to an approaching ice storm / flash flooding in Missouri.  Believe same storm was producing snow/ ice to my west / southwest in Texas at the same time. 

It's amazing how having no mountains to impede or slow down cold air headed south from the north, and being so close to the tropics that all that tropical air can be tapped/ pulled north, as often as possible, so easily  creates such a wildly variable climate as what is seen in Texas / across the plains. 

Depends on where you are in Texas. It’s a huge state. It can be in the 70’s in Houston and freezing in the Amarillo. They are 600 miles apart. 

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Jeff985
3 hours ago, Xenon said:

mcallen.PNG.63d0eb77dd6514e82d39adb49a6de462.PNG

While that is a big temperature swing, I wouldn’t call growing palms in McAllen “challenging”. Mature royals are common there, and if I’m not mistaken, aren’t there some large coconuts there. I can’t imagine people climbing 50 foot royals to wrap them in Christmas lights and blankets. 

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Xenon
1 hour ago, Jeff985 said:

While that is a big temperature swing, I wouldn’t call growing palms in McAllen “challenging”. Mature royals are common there, and if I’m not mistaken, aren’t there some large coconuts there. I can’t imagine people climbing 50 foot royals to wrap them in Christmas lights and blankets. 

There are thousands of royals in McAllen, might even outnumber the queen palms at this point (but Washingtonia is still king). A few coconuts if you look really hard. Actually I think the big temperature swings are one of the saving graces for the tropicals down there. Usually warms up quickly after a cold snap even in mid winter. 

That same day McAllen area was in the 90s I think the Panhandle was already below 0 around late afternoon as the front was pushing south. Late into the evening, the Valley was still in 70s. Imagine hitting 90 one day and not even breaking 50 the next day haha

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UK_Palms
2 hours ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Very interesting, I never knew England experienced temperatures that high. For some reason most in the US think the UK is always rainy and cool, but it seems that's not necessarily true for your part of the Island. What kind of palms have you been able to establish over there?

I live in the foothills of the Southern Appalachians in Western North Carolina (7b/a) - so my palm choices are pretty limited. The most common palms in my neck of the woods are trachycarpus fortunei, sabal palmetto, sabal minor, and rhapidophyllum hystrix however I have seen some other, less hardy species such as butia odorata successfully established here as well.  Our long, hot and humid summers help with that. The eastern part of NC (lower elevation and closer to the coast) is much more palm friendly, however. That part of the state is hotter overall and shorter, milder winters are experienced. It is considered 8b/a, but as you are seeing in Surrey, over the last 20 years or so our climate has been getting warmer and warmer. Sabal palmetto and sabal minor are native to the NC coast along with some species of yucca, and many different non-native species are also cultivated there including butia ordata, CIDP, cycads, washingtonia filifera,  and countless others. NC is considered humid subtropical - live oak, spanish moss, longleaf pine, southern magnolia, and bald cypress are a few of the many kinds of subtropical vegetation native to eastern NC.

Are there any other palms you've been able to establish where you live that you think I might be able to grow over here? I'm relatively new to palm cultivation so any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

To be fair, England is pretty rainy and cool for 9 months of the year. That wouldn't be an unfair assessment in all honesty, but the southeast of the country can get pretty hot during the summer months, allowing a good growing season. The same cannot be said for the north and west of the country. Those areas are considerably cooler, year-round. And at the same time we don't get the extreme cold here either, like in continental Europe and the US, which is why I can grow a lot of the stuff that I do at this latitude.

Butia and Jubaea do well for me, although they grow very slowly here. But they don't get damaged. Cordylines grow like weeds around here and are over-planted. Pretty much every garden has one. Much like the Trachy's. Also, Chamaerops are really taking off now with lots of residents and councils planting them in towns and cities as they do so well here. Sabal's also establish pretty easy, but are slow growing. I'm mostly surprised with how well the Washie's have done for me and I have seen some go from 6 inches to 6 feet in height, in the space of 3 years in the ground here. CIDP also getting established around the southeast of England now. Out of the Phoenix sp. I have CIDP, Dacty, Sylvestris, Theophrasti and a few hybrids - all of which are thriving here. So lots of different types do well here. I haven't actually trialled the Queens long enough to give a verdict on them, although they sailed through last winter here. 

One palm that I think you will be able to grow where you are is Chamaerops Humilis, which is the second hardiest species in my garden, after the Trachy's. I don't know what the lowest temperature is that you have seen over the past decade, but the European fan palm (Chamaerops Humilis) should be hardy down to at least 15F before it incurs any damage, with extensive damage at 10F and defoliation at 5F. Death supposedly happens at around 0F. Although it may happen at a higher temperature in winter wet-cold environments such as my own, the eastern US and PNW. I suspect in our areas, 5-10F could potentially be fatal when combined with snow/ice. Mine have taken snow and 15F temps in Feb 2018 though with only minor damage. And they took 22F last winter with zero damage whatsoever. They might be worth a punt for you to try.

Regards

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