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Why Create Mules?


Dimovi

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1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

I hope Patrick Shafer manages to get a cross between tor tor, say, and jubaea, and give us a 1600 pound gorilla. I'd make room for one if I could.

Sounds like a great idea , may the palm think tank commence. 

 

20 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The butia x parajubaea do great. 

That is great to know. Now i just need to contact Patric and try 1 and a JxS of course !!!

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T J 

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1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

It appears that the places most likely to make at least a temporary happy home for them would be places like SF where @Darold Petty has his grand garden, or maybe Tasmania or parts of New Zealand. It never gets very cold or hot in any of those places, but the palms, at least in SF still get fungus. Maybe it's the day length? Maybe they like thinner air? (Can't imagine how that might matter to a plant, but who knows? Anyone have any thoughts?)

San Francisco seems perfect if you ask Gary from Golden Gate Palms. His thrive with no care!

 

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I was thinking of trying one of Patric's Butia x Parajubaea Sunkha hybrids, I read on threads here that they survive okay in Pensacola and Ocala.  I just haven't decided if I like them enough to try one, since there really aren't any mature ones around to see the final appearance:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/32182-butia-x-parajubaea-sunkha/&page=2

 

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10 hours ago, necturus said:

I don't think most Parajubaea sp have a shot in Texas, much less Austin. It's less humid than Houston, but more humid than much of California. Overnight temperatures don't drop nearly as much in the summer, which seems to be what PJs want. 

The humidity in Austin is in the low 60 in the summer, maybe in the 70s the rest of the year. I am most concerned with the hot 100 degree summer days and low 20 maybe teens once every 4-5 years. The humidity in SF is higher but the summers are cooler and the winters are milder. I guess SF is the closest US climate to their natural habitat. Well, soon I will find out how nice Austin weather is to a Parajubaea Torallyi :)

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22 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I was thinking of trying one of Patric's Butia x Parajubaea Sunkha hybrids, I read on threads here that they survive okay in Pensacola and Ocala.  I just haven't decided if I like them enough to try one, since there really aren't any mature ones around to see the final appearance:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/32182-butia-x-parajubaea-sunkha/&page=2

 

Mine are still in pots but I have both and neither mind our sun or humidity in the heat bowl of SC.  I had them all summer long on the south face of our brick rental house. 

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3 minutes ago, Dimovi said:

The humidity in Austin is in the low 60 in the summer, maybe in the 70s the rest of the year. I am most concerned with the hot 100 degree summer days and low 20 maybe teens once every 4-5 years. The humidity in SF is higher but the summers are cooler and the winters are milder. I guess SF is the closest US climate to their natural habitat. Well, soon I will find out how nice Austin weather is to a Parajubaea Torallyi :)

It also depends on where you are in Austin.  My parents have a place out West in hill country and it's consistently dry there...except for the occasional torrential downpour.  But they told me that Barton Springs Nursery stopped selling Jubaea because they were dying from too much humidity.  I read the soil is also different on the E vs W sides, so that might make a difference to your plantings too!

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21 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

It also depends on where you are in Austin.  My parents have a place out West in hill country and it's consistently dry there...except for the occasional torrential downpour.  But they told me that Barton Springs Nursery stopped selling Jubaea because they were dying from too much humidity.  I read the soil is also different on the E vs W sides, so that might make a difference to your plantings too!

I doubt it’s humidity killing the Jubs. Bo in Magnolia has a nice one growing well, and some others up that way are growing them as well. It’s definitely more humid there than in Austin. May have to do with the cold they experience or something to do with the soil.

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7 minutes ago, necturus said:

I doubt it’s humidity killing the Jubs. Bo in Magnolia has a nice one growing well, and some others up that way are growing them as well. It’s definitely more humid there than in Austin. May have to do with the cold they experience or something to do with the soil.

Agree... and they're is a big one in Alabama. I've heard roomers that the big one in Rock Hill SC has gone to palm heaven though.. 

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5 minutes ago, necturus said:

I doubt it’s humidity killing the Jubs. Bo in Magnolia has a nice one growing well, and some others up that way are growing them as well. It’s definitely more humid there than in Austin. May have to do with the cold they experience or something to do with the soil.

@TexasColdHardyPalms has made the same point - that Texas has high heat and humidity and there are Jubaea there.  I doubt the cold in Orlando would kill a Jubaea.  It hasn't gone under 24F for the last 30 years.  Leu Gardens had one for a while until it rotted out.  I have a few seedlings I'm working with here.  The seedlings seemed to handle my garage pretty well over the summer and it goes over 100F in there.  I want to put one in the ground while the temperatures are cooler, but I'm having some issues planning for a palm with a 25ft. spread and a 6 ft. wide trunk in a suburban lot.

For the sake of discussion, if you throw out heat and humidity, nematodes could potentially be causing the issue.  Either way, if there were some long-term healthy Jubaea in Central Florida it would make headlines in the palm world.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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4 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@TexasColdHardyPalms has made the same point - that Texas has high heat and humidity and there are Jubaea there.  I doubt the cold in Orlando would kill a Jubaea.  It hasn't gone under 24F for the last 30 years.  Leu Gardens had one for a while until it rotted out.  I have a few seedlings I'm working with here.  The seedlings seemed to handle my garage pretty well over the summer and it goes over 100F in there.  I want to put one in the ground while the temperatures are cooler, but I'm having some issues planning for a palm with a 25ft. spread and a 6 ft. wide trunk in a suburban lot.

For the sake of discussion, if you throw out heat and humidity, nematodes could potentially be causing the issue.  Either way, if there were some long-term healthy Jubaea in Central Florida it would make headlines in the palm world.

I've decided I'm going to try one here in SC. @TexasColdHardyPalms had some 3g last year I think. Hoping he still has some that are ready for 5g size next spring. :36_14_15[1]:

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1 hour ago, Dimovi said:

The humidity in Austin is in the low 60 in the summer, maybe in the 70s the rest of the year. I am most concerned with the hot 100 degree summer days and low 20 maybe teens once every 4-5 years. The humidity in SF is higher but the summers are cooler and the winters are milder. I guess SF is the closest US climate to their natural habitat. Well, soon I will find out how nice Austin weather is to a Parajubaea Torallyi :)

"Summers are cooler" is a gross understatement, SF's "summers" are sub arctic compared to summer in Austin. Average summer low temperatures in Austin are a bit higher than avg summer HIGH temps in SF. Summer humidity in Austin is also higher with 70F dew points compared to 50s in SF. 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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1 hour ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

@Dimovi San Francisco also has a fruiting Ceroxylon...

I wasn't saying SF is anything like Austin, just that it doesn't seem too humid in Austin.

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On November 8, 2019 at 9:34 PM, waykoolplantz said:

To me a mule is plug ugly...proudly showing the worst features of each its parents.

i count my blessings that with my weather I don’t need it to look tropical

I can't agree with them being ugly in the least. The one I had planted for a client here in Los Altos is magnificent. The photos don't come close to doing this palm justice. The house was sold last year and the new owner stated that the palm was one of the reasons he and his wife chose this house. 

image.png.f32a2e346d958ffeb8bacd3e2e551ab5.pngimage.jpeg.b88c566aca1c41988c1a2383acefe25b.jpeg

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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I have torallyi and sunka. Here's a rooftop shot of my sunka. With a much more slender trunk than torallyi, they fit into more space restricted areas. Mine has a trunk diameter of just 16" versus my tolallyi that all have huge diameters of 36."

image.jpeg.450c3fc4dac5114dbb90193ccb979f5e.jpegimage.jpeg.88e731e9be224d107a3c34e7a25f20d9.jpeg

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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On 11/9/2019 at 7:36 AM, AZPalms said:

I have two Mules. Are they the sexiest palms? Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For me here in Phoenix, it’s a plug and play palm. Takes our full sun and cold, not a water or nutrient hog. I mostly forget about it and it’ll take care of itself. Decent growth rate, tropical looking palm, available locally. In my book when comparing to a Queen, Washingtonia, Med Fan, Pygmy it’s a much more unique, better looking palm. I’ve yet to see one in a public or private planting here in Phoenix. For me, it’s a clear winner especially for non palmy people who often neglect Queens locally. Wish they’d replace them with Mules.

My .02 cents 

AZ Palms,

I have a Mule in North Scottsdale and I know of a few planted around town.  Mine was purchased from Whitfill Nursery 3 years ago and was a steal for $125.  The same palm now is much more $.  Mine is about 15 feet tall planted next to a Bismarck.  They are totally competing with each other but that was the look I wanted. I just took a few night pics a few minutes ago.  Thats all I got for now. 

There are a few Mules planted in front of I believe The Scott Resort on Scottsdale Road in Old Town just North of Camelback.  There are 4 in the same area might be the Embassy Suites.  Also several very tall ones in a yard on the southeast corner of Tatum and Lincoln.  About 50 yards south of Lincoln.   I saw those at least 5 years ago poking over the wall and had to pull my car over to check them as I thought for a moment they might be Coconuts Palms.  I took some pics and found out what it was on this forum.  That is when I had to get one but could not find any until about 2 years later at Whitfill  

E1540859-38AB-4990-AD30-AA6F6E36D13D.jpeg

1FEA42A6-53F9-4AA8-A599-E85B5583CAEB.jpeg

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  • 3 weeks later...

A great example of why to create Mules.  No Queen.. or very few  will ever look this nice here in the Desert..

Treeland, Sept. 2019
DSCN6826.thumb.JPG.c892a3b022ef31d0486c31f1445675c7.JPGDSCN6825.thumb.JPG.6d5936bca1fa5078f021867907e424e4.JPG

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17 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

A great example of why to create Mules.  No Queen.. or very few  will ever look this nice here in the Desert..

Treeland, Sept. 2019
DSCN6826.thumb.JPG.c892a3b022ef31d0486c31f1445675c7.JPGDSCN6825.thumb.JPG.6d5936bca1fa5078f021867907e424e4.JPG

100% agreement with this statement by show of proof haha =) 

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T J 

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12 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

100% agreement with this statement by show of proof haha =) 

:lol: Funny thing is, this ones kind of skinny compared to some others that were bought into another nursery i had worked at.. Pics are somewhere here, though you're gonna have to go back to 2016 to find them. Regardless, can't beat these for the " look " here.  Question for the future is, should they start becoming more available, and prove hardy to the regions' sizzle fest summers.. could Mules be upstaged   ..by Becarriophoenix alfredii? 

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1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Question for the future is, should they start becoming more available, and prove hardy to the regions' sizzle fest summers.. could Mules be upstaged   ..by Becarriophoenix alfredii? 

I think they are becoming more available and at a better price. As much as I love the look of B.Alfredii and want them to become popular and more available. They have too many things against them for commercial purpose 1. Not frost hardy 2. Slow grower, beautiful palm and wish I could grow one, but will never be long term here =( 

T J 

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