Encephalartos "true blue" arenarius

[Sr. Califas]

I'm hoping that you proud parents of "True Blue" arenarius will be so kind as to share your favorite photos of these rare and beautiful cycads.  The most spectacular specimens I have ever seen are in George Sparkman's wonderful garden. I hope that he has a little time to contribute some pictures to this thread. As for now I will start  with my humble 5-incher that creates a sparkle in my eye. 

 

[5150cycad]

Pictures of two in my garden. 

[Palm Tree Jim]

Nice!

[DippyD]

21 hours ago, Palm Tree Jim said:

Nice!

how are yours Jim? 

[DippyD]

here is one of mine....

[Gas man]

How can you tell its a " true blue " vs just a blue arenarius? 

[GeneAZ]

There is great controversy on this topic, even in South Africa.  At the end of the day, it seems that there is no absolute answer.  Arenarius is a spectrum and you will have to acquire a range of plants that satisfies what you like most in the spectrum.

The plants imported by Loran in the '70s are where this started.  Loran did not refer to them as "True Blue," but the label was applied in the trade to Loran's plants that derive from a singular farm in SA.  As I understand, Loran, along with others, purchased the farm and exported the allowable size of Arenarius from this colony on this farm, to California.  So "True Blue" is a common name, not a reliable identifier.  You just have to buy what you like and love them all.

The entire colony in SA was not removed, however.  I believe there's even specimens still on the farm.  

 

 

[Tracy]

George had some Encephalartos arenarius that were blue from Loran's plant lineage as well as other forms.  I have two hybrid E arenarius x latifrons acquired from George as 1-2 leaf seedlings several years ago.  Both were blue arenarius but one was what he referred to as blue form versus the true blue.  The ones he referred to as true blue flushed a green then turned blue and had typical looking arenarius cones.  The ones he had labeled as blue form, flushed more a purple blue and remained blue.  I don't recall what he said about the cones on his "blue form", but I recall there were differences leading him or whoever he got them from to believe there may have been some hybridization in the lineage with one or another of the Cape blue Encephalartos .  I was under the impression that it could have been a natural cross, but I don't know which of the other Cape blues overlap in geography, or if the blue form has a geographic region associated with it.  This is what I recall so it's second hand information from memory which isn't always the best source.  Maybe GeneAZ   knows more about the blue form and can elaborate.  I do notice a difference in the flush color of my two hybrids while the end point of the hardened off flushes is indistinguishable to me.  Other than my two hybrids, I only have standard green Encephalartos arenarius which I think are beautiful plants as well.

[Coasta]

Wow this is great information to know @GeneAZ and @Tracy as I have been researching the true blue arenarius and have been intrigued by the story.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Coasta

[Josh-O]

Here is some helpful info I took from FB

 

if there’s no cone available, there’s one feature that’s consistent regardless of the species’ various leaf variations. Here’s what you should look for to ID both the full sized and compact arenarius.

If you were looking down the gun barrel of a leaf and at an eye to eye level with the leaf tip, the terminal leaflets would all be arranged on the same horizontal plane. You’d see what folks refer to as being the “open Venetian blind” effect.

The leaflets should be cupped upwards and there should be little to no lobe twist or bending out plane.

[Gas man]

Can you post the Facebook link? 

So is that picture  you posted of a true blue or a blue ? 

From what I can gather , it seems like a few sellers just use it as a marketing ploy to make a few extra bucks.    I bought a " true blue " seedling at 90 dollars when I first started collecting.  Now I know why lol. 

[DippyD]

On 12/5/2020 at 10:37 AM, Gas man said:

Can you post the Facebook link? 

So is that picture  you posted of a true blue or a blue ? 

From what I can gather , it seems like a few sellers just use it as a marketing ploy to make a few extra bucks.    I bought a " true blue " seedling at 90 dollars when I first started collecting.  Now I know why lol. 

Matt, 

 

as Gene has mentioned there is some contraversy and a few stories. i know you saw the post on FB but theres also a lot more to that story which some do not know. the original colony of "true blue" arenarius came from a farm just outside the habitat of arenarius. these plants were growing in pure sand, not the rich red DG most gardens in SA have. the plants in this location coned with identical traits to arenarius. a bright lime green cone but the leaves were as blue as a horridus. whether this may or may have not been a natural occurring cross or a pure species one will never know. 

several of the original imported plants were obtained by most cycad growers in the area and then some were sold off as they moved/ relocated etc. 

 

in addition to the true, you have what Ken Hennell calls Blue arenarius which still has the glaucous leaf but a leaf form more identical to what we know arenarius as in a book. we know that climate and growing conditions plays a major factor into how our garden plants look compared to what a plant may look like in the wild. 

 

to add a bit more of confusion. Jeff chemnick also crossed pollinated arenarius and horridus, horridus and arenarius. he calls this cross Cleopatra. although resembling similar traits to a "true Blue" arenarius it is not the same plant. 

 

i have all of these plants growing in my garden and the only one which shares similar traits to a horridus cross are the cleopatra crosses from chemnick. The picture at the top i posted is a true blue plant i grew from a seedling from the original imports.  

[DippyD]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:36 PM, Josh-O said:

Here is some helpful info I took from FB

 

if there’s no cone available, there’s one feature that’s consistent regardless of the species’ various leaf variations. Here’s what you should look for to ID both the full sized and compact arenarius.

If you were looking down the gun barrel of a leaf and at an eye to eye level with the leaf tip, the terminal leaflets would all be arranged on the same horizontal plane. You’d see what folks refer to as being the “open Venetian blind” effect.

The leaflets should be cupped upwards and there should be little to no lobe twist or bending out plane.

josh, 

 

this also changes with the conditions the plant is growing in. a full exposed plant grows much different than one thats in filtered sun. i will try to get photos of some of my that are growing in several different conditions from the same seed batch and you will see the difference. 

[Gas man]

I really appreciate  the information.  

What would you call this DippyD?   

[DippyD]

15 hours ago, Gas man said:

I really appreciate  the information.  

What would you call this DippyD?   

the older leaflets look as they were grown in a bit of shade and seem more stretched out. the newest or most recent flush looks horridus. id put money on it that this is not a true blue and when it cones you will see horridus traits. however looks like a great plant to put in the ground in full sun and let it explode!

[kurt decker]

I know a little bit about the history of this plant. I knew Loren through Fairchild and Montgomery 25 years ago. Loren was a piece of work. Back in those days, the cycad guys were locked up in a battle of one-upmanship like nothing you've ever seen. Hyper-competitive, and super motivated to get plants they didn't have. Loren had been doing this for a long time. He had just about everything. He taught me a lot, and I got some nice things from him. He was one of a kind. But the blue arenerius is a funny story. He sold a pair of big plants for big money to a guy named Dick Johnson. They were the true blue, according to Loren. Dick Johnson started propagating them, and selling seedlings. At that point, now that he was competitor, Loren came up with some more plants that now became THE true blue. Everything else was ordinary, run-of-the-mill blue. All those plants came from the same place. There really is no difference. It was all marketing on Loren's part. If you have an arenerius, and it's blue, you have the real thing. Enjoy your plants, guys.

[kurt decker]

[Tracy]

On 12/8/2020 at 1:04 PM, kurt decker said:

Enjoy your plants, guys.

I'll make an effort.

[DippyD]

26 minutes ago, Tracy said:

I'll make an effort.

thats an excellent effort! this to me i would call Blue arenarius. something has a bit of glaucous leaves but not your pure shiny green arenarius. also not the wild leaf detail as "true blue". she's a beauty! hope you dosed her up with something special!

[BS Man about Palms]

Soooo, to throw a monkey wrench into this... I got this from Mardy Darian @ 15 years ago  (Has it been that long?!) as a "Blue Arenaius".

What does this group think it is?  (Other than quite enormous now...)

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, BS Man about Palms said:

Soooo, to throw a monkey wrench into this... I got this from Mardy Darian @ 15 years ago  (Has it been that long?!) as a "Blue Arenaius".

What does this group think it is?

Bill I think you were bamboozeled.... stop using Photoshop to color your photos!  On a serious note, the answer is that it looks like exactly what it was sold as... a blue Encephalartos arenarius.

 

13 hours ago, DippyD said:

hope you dosed her up with something special!

Unfortunately, no I didn't.  It is my cousin's plant, and I haven't been able to get the timing right to be there to pollinate it.  The photo I posted was taken 5 years ago and I'm still striking out on the timing to pollinate that plant.

[DippyD]

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

Bill I think you were bamboozeled.... stop using Photoshop to color your photos!  On a serious note, the answer is that it looks like exactly what it was sold as... a blue Encephalartos arenarius.

 

Unfortunately, no I didn't.  It is my cousin's plant, and I haven't been able to get the timing right to be there to pollinate it.  The photo I posted was taken 5 years ago and I'm still striking out on the timing to pollinate that plant.

BUMMMMMERRRR. these typically become receptive in nov/dec. for about a week. 

[GeneAZ]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:05 AM, BS Man about Palms said:

Soooo, to throw a monkey wrench into this... I got this from Mardy Darian @ 15 years ago  (Has it been that long?!) as a "Blue Arenaius".

What does this group think it is?  (Other than quite enormous now...)

A nice blue form.