Palm availability/price cycles

[cbmnz]

Weird how 3-4 years ago it was hard sometimes to even find palms for sale.  Had to drive to a specialist nursery. Now they seem to be available everywhere and getting cheaper and cheaper. Could not resist this R. Baueri today as it was only NZD 34 (20 USD) for a nearly 1m (3ft)  tall healthy  palm. Sure dame palm would have cost 80 to 100 local dollars 2-3 years ago.

[Meangreen94z]

Yeah sometimes you run across deals you can’t believe. I bought this extra blue Dioon Edule for $39. It was in an old collapsing plastic container behind a bunch of palms, it looked like it had been there for several years , forgotten.

[PalmatierMeg]

Audience for palms continues to grow as gardeners catch on to what is possible for them in containers or in the ground. When market demand grows people step in to supply it. Expansion of the internet during the past dozen years opens up all possibilities.

[James B]

Here in California I’ve noticed some of the nursery owners who post their prices here raise their prices for the same palms each year. So I’ve seen the opposite in my area.

[joe_OC]

1 hour ago, James B said:

Here in California I’ve noticed some of the nursery owners who post their prices here raise their prices for the same palms each year. So I’ve seen the opposite in my area.

Depends who you by from.  

[Butch]

3 hours ago, joe_OC said:

Depends who you by from.  

Joe...You offering up?

Butch

[joe_OC]

Nope!  I am a palm consumer...NOT seller.  

I actually think palm prices are dropping.  A lot of rare palms are more readily available at a much better price point.  

Palms, like any plant.  Once seed source become readily available and there are multiple growers, the supply becomes readily available and prices drop.  I am kinda scratching my head about the comments that the prices are increasing.

[James B]

1 hour ago, joe_OC said:

Nope!  I am a palm consumer...NOT seller.  

I actually think palm prices are dropping.  A lot of rare palms are more readily available at a much better price point.  

Palms, like any plant.  Once seed source become readily available and there are multiple growers, the supply becomes readily available and prices drop.  I am kinda scratching my head about the comments that the prices are increasing.

Joe feel free to point me in the right direction. Thanks!

[branislav]

I think it's mostly availability of seed that's driving the prices here in SoCal. I've bought some stuff at fairly reasonable prices but for things where seed has gotten scarce, the prices are up (also because the only plants available are older). One extreme case is with a plant listed on PT last year for $400 that didn't sell, and is now available for $700. It's a rare slow-growing palm, which I eventually found in a somewhat larger size for $500, and considered it a bargain. If you're going to buy things that people got from Floribunda and grew for a year or two, it's still cheap. 

[Palm Tree Jim]

Simple economics.......supply and demand.

[joe_OC]

13 hours ago, branislav said:

I think it's mostly availability of seed that's driving the prices here in SoCal. I've bought some stuff at fairly reasonable prices but for things where seed has gotten scarce, the prices are up (also because the only plants available are older). One extreme case is with a plant listed on PT last year for $400 that didn't sell, and is now available for $700. It's a rare slow-growing palm, which I eventually found in a somewhat larger size for $500, and considered it a bargain. If you're going to buy things that people got from Floribunda and grew for a year or two, it's still cheap. 

Which palm was this?  Cycads don’t count.

Edited October 20, 2019 by joe_OC

[branislav]

47 minutes ago, joe_OC said:

Which palm was this?  Cycads don’t count.

PM’ed you. 

[The Germinator]

The pricing in California is often tied to home owner equity. During the last housing boom plant prices spiked as home owners spent lots of money they did not have on remodeling and landscape re-designs. This caused many popular plants (i.e.: Sago) to go up substantially in the commercial landscape market.

Although the market is doing better, people are not pulling 2nds and landscaping like they did during the last boom.

[wrigjef]

On 10/19/2019 at 5:16 PM, joe_OC said:

Nope!  I am a palm consumer...NOT seller.  

I actually think palm prices are dropping.  A lot of rare palms are more readily available at a much better price point.  

Palms, like any plant.  Once seed source become readily available and there are multiple growers, the supply becomes readily available and prices drop.  I am kinda scratching my head about the comments that the prices are increasing.

Hey Joe,

  Prices where I live in Arizona are absolutely on the rise and it’s been driving me crazy!   I think our local nursery now has a monopoly going in the business. 

I have 27 palms planted in my yard. I purchased more than half locally from around the valley.  Here are a few examples going off memory.  I visit our nurseries often to check on pricing to see if the palms I purchased got any less expensive and found it to be just the opposite. 
 

Bismarkia paid $250  4 years ago.  
Same tree $500 today

Mule palm paid $150 - 3 years ago same tree today $299

Queen Palm - paid $125 for two 4 years ago.  
last year bought two more from the same Nursery and they were $150 and half the size 

Phoenix Roebelenii  paid $50 each for 3 at Home Depot.  (Waste high when first planted).  The $50 one today are darn near seedlings. 
 

Washingtonia Robusta - they were darn near giving these away a few years ago, now $50 will get you one less than a foot tall. (What a joke, they grow like weeds here) 

 

just my two cents

Jeff 

Edited February 7, 2020 by wrigjef

[Brad Mondel]

Over here on the east coast palm availability has shrunk. It is hard to find palms even at big box stores and local nurseries. About 15 years ago they were everywhere and cheap. Today you can only find majesties because the same nursuries supply all of the big box stores. 

[sonoranfans]

I think as landscaping demand goes up prices increase.  this can happen in general but it can be extreme for a popular species.  Just look at copernicia fallaense, a 25 gallon sells for up to $1500 and not easy to find.  Used to be $500-600 for that palm in florida eight years ago.  It seems there are fewer small growers now, prices may have been too low on somethings and they went out of business.  As competition drops prices rise and that is natural.  A lot of people don't realize that buying those cheap big box store palms mean that smaller growers will decline and available selection will be drastically reduced as decided by some (non palm enthusiast) horticulturalist manager at the box store.   After the suppliers are reduced, prices naturally rise at the big box store.  I planted 90% of my palms from small growers, most who are no longer active.  When I think of all the species that are either unavailable or way higher in cost now, I'm glad I met the growers I did on palmtalk and planted out 6-7 years ago.   Todays palmtalk "for sale section" is almost all seeds, not much help if you want a tree in 5 years.   

[Silas_Sancona]

As mentioned, the basics of availability will often dictate how much one might pay for something..

On the other hand, there are those who may use this to their personal advantage and charge more than they should. perhaps those motivated in such a manner forget that in the nursery business it is supposed to be about the plants, not making enough money to buy your next time share/ trip to Vegas to gamble with.. Yes, i have heard stories of such things in the past.. 

While part of any price increase seen here in AZ may be related to wage raises, have seen the same thing @wrigjef mentioned in regards to some places charging much more for what i'd consider pretty sorry quality plants.. Sometimes wonder if a wholesaler has even "finished off" a certain crop of plants before offering it for purchase to the retailer. Seems kind of rushed at times, imo.. Bet those plants end up being weaker from being fattened up faster than they should be too..

  One thing i have never understood fully is.. if you can walk into any big box and find things like Queens, Washingtonia or a number of common "blah" landscape tree choices.. why, as an independent nursery owner, would a good deal of your focus be on stocking/selling them also.. I certainly wouldn't.. My sole focus would be accessing and offering something different.. It is ...insert your own chosen word(s)... to stock 60-90% of the same common things the next 6 nurseries down the road are growing. While just my personal opinion, i'd imagine that would definitely a good way to end up out of business..  There can only be so many convincing, used car salesmen trying to sell me shiny lemons.. In the years i have spent working in the nursery trade, i have seen how some independents weren't willing to think outside the box, or think.. independently ( a very bad word in some cases ).. Some rarely advertise or have an on-line presence.. or, if they do, their attempt is very dry.

On the other hand, there are also some great smaller nurseries that do. A really good one down in Tucson only recently  officially opened it's doors.. For a nursery, they are very independent minded, and strive to set their own course. They also have, from what i see when i check in on their facebook page, a pretty good grasp on their target audience, one that is only growing by the day.. thanks in part to growing concern over the environmental impacts of what is grown, or what is used to grow X in the garden..  At a few other nurseries there, several of the people that work at or own them are dedicated, actual plant people, some of whom conduct/ help to publish actual research on various plant related topics.. I could spend all day discussing various things with them.. and feel more confident about purchasing from them.. They're not just someone trying to sell me something who, when i ask very specific questions, freeze like a Cat caught rooting through the trash. 

  Honestly think the days of the the Big Box or Corporate-esque used car plant peddlers are numbered.. Truth eventually out does the scam artist.. The " Save yourself time.. buy big, mature trees" spiel used by some places is nothing but a scam.  Not sure about others but blindly wasting money simply due to being overly impatient isn't a hobby i wish to take up anytime soon. Add to this the age of the internet and you can usually find what you're looking for, even though you might have to travel somewhere to acquire it.. Nothing better than planning a weekend or week long road trip, imo.. 

Other times, yes.. you might have to start out w/ seed or smaller plants.. Be patient, and treat those plants well and they'll grow for you. If you loose 'em, at least it didn't cost you a mortgage payment, or more. Later on, maybe you can be the first in your area to offer up bigger plants to other people, at a good price of course..

 

[AZPalms]

17 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

As mentioned, the basics of availability will often dictate how much one might pay for something..

On the other hand, there are those who may use this to their personal advantage and charge more than they should. perhaps those motivated in such a manner forget that in the nursery business it is supposed to be about the plants, not making enough money to buy your next time share/ trip to Vegas to gamble with.. Yes, i have heard stories of such things in the past.. 

While part of any price increase seen here in AZ may be related to wage raises, have seen the same thing @wrigjef mentioned in regards to some places charging much more for what i'd consider pretty sorry quality plants.. Sometimes wonder if a wholesaler has even "finished off" a certain crop of plants before offering it for purchase to the retailer. Seems kind of rushed at times, imo.. Bet those plants end up being weaker from being fattened up faster than they should be too..

  One thing i have never understood fully is.. if you can walk into any big box and find things like Queens, Washingtonia or a number of common "blah" landscape tree choices.. why, as an independent nursery owner, would a good deal of your focus be on stocking/selling them also.. I certainly wouldn't.. My sole focus would be accessing and offering something different.. It is ...insert your own chosen word(s)... to stock 60-90% of the same common things the next 6 nurseries down the road are growing. While just my personal opinion, i'd imagine that would definitely a good way to end up out of business..  There can only be so many convincing, used car salesmen trying to sell me shiny lemons.. In the years i have spent working in the nursery trade, i have seen how some independents weren't willing to think outside the box, or think.. independently ( a very bad word in some cases ).. Some rarely advertise or have an on-line presence.. or, if they do, their attempt is very dry.

On the other hand, there are also some great smaller nurseries that do. A really good one down in Tucson only recently  officially opened it's doors.. For a nursery, they are very independent minded, and strive to set their own course. They also have, from what i see when i check in on their facebook page, a pretty good grasp on their target audience, one that is only growing by the day.. thanks in part to growing concern over the environmental impacts of what is grown, or what is used to grow X in the garden..  At a few other nurseries there, several of the people that work at or own them are dedicated, actual plant people, some of whom conduct/ help to publish actual research on various plant related topics.. I could spend all day discussing various things with them.. and feel more confident about purchasing from them.. They're not just someone trying to sell me something who, when i ask very specific questions, freeze like a Cat caught rooting through the trash. 

  Honestly think the days of the the Big Box or Corporate-esque used car plant peddlers are numbered.. Truth eventually out does the scam artist.. The " Save yourself time.. buy big, mature trees" spiel used by some places is nothing but a scam.  Not sure about others but blindly wasting money simply due to being overly impatient isn't a hobby i wish to take up anytime soon. Add to this the age of the internet and you can usually find what you're looking for, even though you might have to travel somewhere to acquire it.. Nothing better than planning a weekend or week long road trip, imo.. 

Other times, yes.. you might have to start out w/ seed or smaller plants.. Be patient, and treat those plants well and they'll grow for you. If you loose 'em, at least it didn't cost you a mortgage payment, or more. Later on, maybe you can be the first in your area to offer up bigger plants to other people, at a good price of course..

 

Well said, agreed. The market here in Phoenix for the local nurseries (sans a few) is all about tried true and stable plants for the climate. Probably my biggest pet peeve is some of the smaller nurseries who I rely on for better plant care, knowledge and overall economical support, are just as bad as the big box stores when it comes to care, plant knowledge and product selection as the big box stores. There’s a stand out few in the Phoenix area who do try and bring in something different and see if it catches on, but most consider it to large of a gamble to the average consumer knowing and being willing or capable of care after. 

I won’t name exactly, but MV (hint hint) is absolutely a no go on my list. I’ve wandered in there before to kill time and been absolutely sickened by the sales pitch, predatory nature to the layman consumer, quirky plant names and prices? Oh the prices. I’ll never forget seeing a Red Banana in a small box. Probably 4ft overall. Price? $600. Nearby a 24” box Dypsis Decaryi. $2500. Yes. $2500. I asked the guy, man, $2500 for that Dypsis. No sir, that’s a Triangle tree. Okay, enough MV for the day. 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, AZPalms said:

Well said, agreed. The market here in Phoenix for the local nurseries (sans a few) is all about tried true and stable plants for the climate. Probably my biggest pet peeve is some of the smaller nurseries who I rely on for better plant care, knowledge and overall economical support, are just as bad as the big box stores when it comes to care, plant knowledge and product selection as the big box stores. There’s a stand out few in the Phoenix area who do try and bring in something different and see if it catches on, but most consider it to large of a gamble to the average consumer knowing and being willing or capable of care after. 

I won’t name exactly, but MV (hint hint) is absolutely a no go on my list. I’ve wandered in there before to kill time and been absolutely sickened by the sales pitch, predatory nature to the layman consumer, quirky plant names and prices? Oh the prices. I’ll never forget seeing a Red Banana in a small box. Probably 4ft overall. Price? $600. Nearby a 24” box Dypsis Decaryi. $2500. Yes. $2500. I asked the guy, man, $2500 for that Dypsis. No sir, that’s a Triangle tree. Okay, enough MV for the day. 

Triangle Tree?  Really? ..I hear the Square Vines produce little circular flowery things.   I hear ya... Don't get me started about that place, lol.. When we first moved here, i walked into the location that used to be just down the street from the house here in Chandler to inquire about employment.. Was not enthused by everything i heard, actually quite repulsed. left and never called back, even though i was offered a job.  Another well known valley nursery, won't name them either.. is actually owned by the brother of the owner of MV.  Hence why their ads looks strikingly similar at times.  Always interesting when someone would come into nursery #2 when i worked there and discuss their awful MV experience..

If they only knew..  In some cases, i might have vaguely mentioned it, oops! .

[AZPalms]

4 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Triangle Tree?  Really? ..I hear the Square Vines produce little circular flowery things.   I hear ya... Don't get me started about that place, lol.. When we first moved here, i walked into the location that used to be just down the street from the house here in Chandler to inquire about employment.. Was not enthused by everything i heard, actually quite repulsed. left and never called back, even though i was offered a job.  Another well known valley nursery, won't name them either.. is actually owned by the brother of the owner of MV.  Hence why their ads looks strikingly similar at times.  Always interesting when someone would come into nursery #2 when i worked there and discuss their awful MV experience..

If they only knew..  In some cases, i might have vaguely mentioned it, oops! .

LOL does this nursery happen to start with a W? Ugh. They’re on my list of probably shouldn’t frequent. I actually picked up a large Brahea Armata from them. Pot didn’t have price on it (others said $149) but I grabbed the one that was twice the size of its counterparts. Older lady at the counter asked other older lady what should we charge him, no price on this. I told them the $149 on the others. They said, no this one is the larger $299 size. My wife jumps in, it said $149. Ugh. Left with $149 “size” after refusing to play games. Still wasn’t amused. 

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, AZPalms said:

LOL does this nursery happen to start with a W? Ugh. They’re on my list of probably shouldn’t frequent. I actually picked up a large Brahea Armata from them. Pot didn’t have price on it (others said $149) but I grabbed the one that was twice the size of its counterparts. Older lady at the counter asked other older lady what should we charge him, no price on this. I told them the $149 on the others. They said, no this one is the larger $299 size. My wife jumps in, it said $149. Ugh. Left with $149 “size” after refusing to play games. Still wasn’t amused. 

Thats a yes, sir.. lol 

(Sigh) yeah.. interesting experience w/ that place.. heck, i'd get the wicked side eye from my manager when a client i'd been helping with her landscape would return to inquire about other plants. She was a bit lost on what she wanted but when someone under your employment knows how to deal with such situations, you don't make that employee feel bad about helping that person, no matter how busy you think it is. Anyway, Good learning experience though. 

That's one thing that gets under my skin sometimes, aside from them, options here, especially regarding palms, is very limited.. and a bad experience ( ..or two ) can really impact how a client ( i try to avoid labeling anyone i've delt with anywhere i have worked as a customer ) perceives the entire industry. No doubt there are great places mixed in w/ the not so fantastic. Bad for everyone when some places create more challenges.

Another " Why the heck?" question i have always had regarding plant selection here is why are there no Native plant nurseries ...in Phoenix.. There should be at least one or two.. There isn't. yes some places stock a few things but..  I'd send anyone looking for such options, especially people who'd adopted Tortoises, and needed to find pants for them to Tucson. You'd think there would be an " ASU vs. University of Arizona" style competition going on.. even among native plant enthusiasts lol.

At least the "Irish Guy " located by South Mountain is opening up tropical flowering and fruit tree ( ..and some uncommon palm ) options now.