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Mr.SamuraiSword

Bridgeport Sabal Palmetto CT Notable Trees

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Mr.SamuraiSword

I was on youtube yesterday night and found possibly the most northern semi longterm Sabal Palmetto on the east coast.  The video referenced CT notable trees so I went to the site and found out more about the palm. I am still dumbfounded.  It sprouted from seed in 2005 and was planted in its current location in 2009.  It is still alive considering the video was made this fall.  I am absolutely dumfounded at how this palm is still alive and doing well at that.  it doesn't look like it even gets any protection during the winter when I looked at old streetviews.

Here is the CT notable trees information about the palm.  there is also a Windmill palm on the site.

http://oak.conncoll.edu:8080/notabletrees/ViewTreeData.jsp?selected=226219

Here is the streetview

https://www.google.com/maps/place/30+Hazel+St,+Bridgeport,+CT+06604/@41.1634148,-73.1873538,3a,15y,20.89h,86.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh4YsY45yEbGV8bxG0xhKEQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e80e09479c1c85:0x692aa48115172c84!8m2!3d41.163864!4d-73.1871908

Here is a Link to the Video I referenced

I am still dumfounded and am now planning a trip to bridgeport

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cm05

Wow. New England’s version of the Newport Beach Coconut.

I’m literally in Bridgeport right now, just a few blocks away. If I had time I’d check it out, but there’s always next time.

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Rickybobby

Wow impressive 

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Manalto

If sabals thrive in Bridgeport imagine what can grow in Greenwich!

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PalmsNC
10 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

I was on youtube yesterday night and found possibly the most northern semi longterm Sabal Palmetto on the east coast.  The video referenced CT notable trees so I went to the site and found out more about the palm. I am still dumbfounded.  It sprouted from seed in 2005 and was planted in its current location in 2009.  It is still alive considering the video was made this fall.  I am absolutely dumfounded at how this palm is still alive and doing well at that.  it doesn't look like it even gets any protection during the winter when I looked at old streetviews.

Here is the CT notable trees information about the palm.  there is also a Windmill palm on the site.

http://oak.conncoll.edu:8080/notabletrees/ViewTreeData.jsp?selected=226219

Here is the streetview

https://www.google.com/maps/place/30+Hazel+St,+Bridgeport,+CT+06604/@41.1634148,-73.1873538,3a,15y,20.89h,86.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh4YsY45yEbGV8bxG0xhKEQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e80e09479c1c85:0x692aa48115172c84!8m2!3d41.163864!4d-73.1871908

Here is a Link to the Video I referenced

I am still dumfounded and am now planning a trip to bridgeport

Highly doubt it doesn’t get any protection , it drops into the low single digits there every winter . -2 last year and -6 in 2016! 

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Mr.SamuraiSword
40 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

Highly doubt it doesn’t get any protection , it drops into the low single digits there every winter . -2 last year and -6 in 2016! 

I saw the streetveiw in January 2016 and it had no wrappings.. Maybe it had lights though

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RJ

From the notable tree website:

 

"This is the first tree of this species in our database, as well as the first palm tree. This is a USDA zone 8 tree growing in zone 7. This tree was grown from seed from collected in Sun City Center, FL, in 2005. It was planted outside in its current location in 2009. This tree suffered die-back over the 2017-2018 winter and its height was reduced from about 8 feet. It is in a favorable microclimate, very close to a south-facing masonry wall, and is about 500 ft from Long Island Sound.

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The Silent Seed

What does it mean by "reduced from 8'?" Was it a 8' tree that died, and what we are seeing are offsets? Or is that their way of saying a few 8' leaves died? 

I'm surprised they are calling it zone 7. 

Edited by The Silent Seed

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Manalto
4 hours ago, The Silent Seed said:

 

I'm surprised they are calling it zone 7. 

I live in Connecticut part of the year and occasionally do landscapes for people. In coastal areas west of New Haven, influenced by the the tempering  effect of Long Island Sound, Zone 7 plants, such as camillia and aucuba, are reliable so it's only mildly surprising that a microclimate could support a Zone 8 species.

I suspect the 8ft designation referred to the height of the tallest frond until it got knocked back. It's remarkable enough that a palm is thriving in New England, I doubt there has been one with eight feet of trunk.

Edited by Manalto
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The Silent Seed

The reason I am surprised about it being called zone 7, is because as far as I know, only recently, it was a zone 5 (as was I) and then both here, and coastal CT have been "up, or down" graded to a 6 (a and b respectively) but not yet 7. 

 

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RJ
51 minutes ago, The Silent Seed said:

The reason I am surprised about it being called zone 7, is because as far as I know, only recently, it was a zone 5 (as was I) and then both here, and coastal CT have been "up, or down" graded to a 6 (a and b respectively) but not yet 7. 

 

My folks live just north of Worcester MA, and I think they're a zone 6. I have a brother in Upton as well and I think he is Zone 6. Not sure if they used to be Zone 5 on the old map?? 

 

 

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RJ

I can't tell but does it look like the palm bud has grown above level ground? I wold think that once it does this could be a goner.  Also possibly snow could be protecting it? For sure that brick wall is the saving grace in this case IMO. 

 

 

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The Silent Seed

RJ,

Yes; we used to be 5b (Worcester, etc,) but we are now 6a and CT would be 6b. 

Worcester is about an hour west and inland of me. I am on the northeast coast of MA. 

I agree that being nestled between a hot brick building and hot concrete is definitely helping its cause. 

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Manalto

Connecticut has a few zones. Roughly, the river valley and the coastline are 6, Fairfield County near New York is 7 and the remainder of the state is 5. 

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NOT A TA

It appears that the lower floor of the building is half below ground and since there's an AC in the window I'd assume it's heated to a comfortable level during winter as well which would keep the ground from freezing for a few feet away from the building.  I lived in that area of CT most of my life and worked as a landscape designer/estimator for a large commercial landscape company based in Bridgeport named Laflamme services. My office was on the lower end of East Main St. in what was a bad section of town at the time. Most of our corporate accounts were spread throughout Fairfield county and there was a huge difference of what could be grown in the Southwest area near NY along the water as opposed to up in the hills of Shelton, Monroe. At the time I lived in Ansonia and driving South down Rt 8 to work after a snowfall you could often see the snow cover disappear while driving. Big environmental differences in very few miles in "the armpit of the nation".

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Allen

Palmetto is doable in 7 and might live for years without protection.  The taller above ground the trunk gets the more precarious it becomes.  When small it's more like a sabal minor with just a little less cold hardiness.

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NC_Palms

I can't believe it! Very impressive

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mdsonofthesouth

Gives me hope for my sabal palmetto that is blocked from northern wind and nestled between a thick chimney and concrete wall with sun most of the day! We are a z7 but most winters are z8 with rare drops to 7b and a. Although the past few years we have been good for a single digit event albeit short and only at the coldest part of night.

Edited by mdsonofthesouth
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Manalto

I've had good success wintering over marginally-hardy woody plants by putting a hoop of wire mesh around the plant and filling it with oak leaves. (Oak leaves - or other stiff foliage - are preferred because they are rigid, stay relatively dry and don't collapse in a soupy mass like more delicate leaves.) In the coldest part of the winter, broadleaf evergreens don't photosynthesize, so blocking out the sun does not inhibit the plant's ability to function. I'm not sure if the same method wood work for palms.

Edited by Manalto
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mdsonofthesouth

Here is a hardiness map for CT:

139487731_CThardinessmaps.PNG.5dec1fa5fc31def49bc98681e256b800.PNG

 

1 hour ago, Manalto said:

I've had good success wintering over marginally-hardy woody plants by putting a hoop of wire mesh around the plant and filling it with oak leaves. (Oak leaves - or other stiff foliage - are preferred because they are rigid, stay relatively dry and don't collapse in a soupy mass like more delicate leaves.) In the coldest part of the winter, broadleaf evergreens don't photosynthesize, so blocking out the sun does not inhibit the plant's ability to function. I'm not sure if the same method wood work for palms.

 

I have heard of that method. Personally I just build a simple enclosure with stakes and 6mil plastic drop cloth for the polar events. But my main way of "protecting" less hardy palms here is to mulch the base a little (2-3in) and put a coil of incandescent rope lights on top of it. 

 

Here is my main "protection" method. Chamaerops humilis and livistona chinensis. No enclosure, just a little mulch and rope lights!

5a0bf3feb767a_winterize1.thumb.jpg.4af024e4323b210aec73f6938fd43c9f.jpg

 

Here is what I did for the dreaded 2018 event. Did not lose a single palm from that event thankfully....sadly 2019 was a BAD year (personally) and thus I lost track of things and a 6-8 hour event killed half my palms and a rot event did the rest down the road. 2019 is a year I plan to FORGET for MANY reasons. 

20171222_151645.thumb.jpg.102c046f5fcd8b6198c7fe10d67e97d2.jpg

Edited by mdsonofthesouth
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Manalto

The reason I prefer the oak-leaf method over the mini-greenhouse method of protection is that, on a string of warm, sunny days in the winter, you don't have to worry about the enclosure getting too warm. (You can, of course, open it up if you're around to do so.) I find that maintaining a stable temperature is the best way to go. Again, this is for woody plants and I'm not sure if the same principle applies to palms.

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mdsonofthesouth
15 minutes ago, Manalto said:

The reason I prefer the oak-leaf method over the mini-greenhouse method of protection is that, on a string of warm, sunny days in the winter, you don't have to worry about the enclosure getting too warm. (You can, of course, open it up if you're around to do so.) I find that maintaining a stable temperature is the best way to go. Again, this is for woody plants and I'm not sure if the same principle applies to palms.

 

I agree 100%. After the 2018 event we had a drastic warm up to the 70s and 80s and even though I got out at 7 or 8am to open it up it had gotten to 95F inside. I only use the enclosure method for BAD events. 99% of the winter my palms are exposed due the the age old adage (at least for me lol) of "we have 360+ days of palm growing weather, and 0-5 days of southern yellow pine/magnolia/yucca days". Likely this year Ill only build a small wall on the north side and roof to prevent too much precipitation in and leave them be lest we get an event.  Now that my main palm garden is on the east side of the house and up against the concrete wall my less hardy palms are blocked from the horrible desiccating winds from the west and get a TON of sun. But I dont want to let them 100% go since I did just plant them in late spring. Plus I have an extremely young strap leaf chamaerops humilis var. cerifera I want to survive. Honestly I dont go out of town during the cold months and am out and about monitoring the situations around my property.....save for 2019...

 

 

Edited by mdsonofthesouth
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Allen

Don't use plastic unless it's vented excessively if it's in the sun at all.  Use frost cloth and your overheating issues are gone.

 

 

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mdsonofthesouth
52 minutes ago, Allen said:

Don't use plastic unless it's vented excessively if it's in the sun at all.  Use frost cloth and your overheating issues are gone.

 

 

 

Like I said I only do that for freak events then it comes down. I would literally fry my plants if I kept them up through winter lol. Im debating a new method, just need it easy to remove for warm or hot days.

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Manalto
On 10/17/2019 at 2:25 PM, Allen said:

Don't use plastic unless it's vented excessively if it's in the sun at all.  Use frost cloth and your overheating issues are gone.

 

 

Wouldn't it be ineffective if it were "vented excessively"?

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DrZnaturally
On 10/16/2019 at 8:52 PM, NOT A TA said:

It appears that the lower floor of the building is half below ground and since there's an AC in the window I'd assume it's heated to a comfortable level during winter as well which would keep the ground from freezing for a few feet away from the building.  I lived in that area of CT most of my life and worked as a landscape designer/estimator for a large commercial landscape company based in Bridgeport named Laflamme services. My office was on the lower end of East Main St. in what was a bad section of town at the time. Most of our corporate accounts were spread throughout Fairfield county and there was a huge difference of what could be grown in the Southwest area near NY along the water as opposed to up in the hills of Shelton, Monroe. At the time I lived in Ansonia and driving South down Rt 8 to work after a snowfall you could often see the snow cover disappear while driving. Big environmental differences in very few miles in "the armpit of the nation".

 

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DrZnaturally
On 10/17/2019 at 11:08 AM, Manalto said:

I've had good success wintering over marginally-hardy woody plants by putting a hoop of wire mesh around the plant and filling it with oak leaves. (Oak leaves - or other stiff foliage - are preferred because they are rigid, stay relatively dry and don't collapse in a soupy mass like more delicate leaves.) In the coldest part of the winter, broadleaf evergreens don't photosynthesize, so blocking out the sun does not inhibit the plant's ability to function. I'm not sure if the same method wood work for palms.

 

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DrZnaturally

That's my sabal you are referring to, This is DrZ from University of Bridgeport; I mummy wrap the sabal palm, almostlost it one year but it recovered nicely

 

check out the video

 

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DrZnaturally
On 10/17/2019 at 9:44 AM, mdsonofthesouth said:

Gives me hope for my sabal palmetto that is blocked from northern wind and nestled between a thick chimney and concrete wall with sun most of the day! We are a z7 but most winters are z8 with rare drops to 7b and a. Although the past few years we have been good for a single digit event albeit short and only at the coldest part of night.

I would really wrap your sabal well during the winter

 

here's the unveiling of mine this Spring march 2020

 

Its been outside since 2009

 

 

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mdsonofthesouth
8 hours ago, DrZnaturally said:

I would really wrap your sabal well during the winter

 

here's the unveiling of mine this Spring march 2020

 

Its been outside since 2009

 

 

 

Very cool zone push! As the crow flies we are maybe 100 miles from where folks grow them out in the open and they self seed and "volunteer". We may be zone 7 but are on the warmer side of it. Really only need to protect zone 8 palms 0 to 5 nights a year and really only on bad years like 2018. I have hope for our palmetto as it's in a really good placement with good sun most of the day with blockage from the north and nestled in a corner between a heated garage and our fireplace. Worst case I'll just plant a trachycarpus which I know will do well in that spot, but definitely want to make this palmetto work! I believe it was sourced from North Carolina so it's genes are pretty good! Happy growing and keep up the good work :D.

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DrZnaturally
On 4/9/2020 at 3:27 AM, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

Very cool zone push! As the crow flies we are maybe 100 miles from where folks grow them out in the open and they self seed and "volunteer". We may be zone 7 but are on the warmer side of it. Really only need to protect zone 8 palms 0 to 5 nights a year and really only on bad years like 2018. I have hope for our palmetto as it's in a really good placement with good sun most of the day with blockage from the north and nestled in a corner between a heated garage and our fireplace. Worst case I'll just plant a trachycarpus which I know will do well in that spot, but definitely want to make this palmetto work! I believe it was sourced from North Carolina so it's genes are pretty good! Happy growing and keep up the good work :D.

thanks, well keep you posted as the palm gets bigger, it will be more challenging to keep it alive

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Palmlover4life

I am going to try 2 large sabals in my yard in Stratford this year. Obviously with winter protection.  I got them from ctpalmtrees.com and they said they can help us protect them. We shall see! 

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Mr.SamuraiSword
On 6/19/2020 at 9:55 AM, Palmlover4life said:

I am going to try 2 large sabals in my yard in Stratford this year. Obviously with winter protection.  I got them from ctpalmtrees.com and they said they can help us protect them. We shall see! 

Are these Palmettos? or Minor.. Minor should do good even with light protection, 

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Allen
8 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Are these Palmettos? or Minor.. Minor should do good even with light protection, 

Palmetto I'm pretty sure.  I have 2 in zone 7a I'm trying as well.  Palmetto seem to take down to 10F pretty well and when small may take lower temps with the spear being ground level.  

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TexasColdHardyPalms

At ground level 6" out  from my foundation on the south side of my house is zone 10+ as my grass has stayed green for 10 years in a row.  I should plant zamia there.....

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mdsonofthesouth

I think in the last 5 years the soil 2 to 4 feet from the foundation of my house has maybe frozen 3 maybe 4 times. I'm hoping this will help the palms I have planted there. Sure they will eventually be exposed to the cooler air as grow, but at least the roots won't freeze lol.

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Nj Palms
37 minutes ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

I think in the last 5 years the soil 2 to 4 feet from the foundation of my house has maybe frozen 3 maybe 4 times. I'm hoping this will help the palms I have planted there. Sure they will eventually be exposed to the cooler air as grow, but at least the roots won't freeze lol.

South side of my house near the foundation didn’t even freeze this winter. A couple inches away did. Planted some Mexican petunias there.

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DrZnaturally
23 hours ago, Nj Palms said:

South side of my house near the foundation didn’t even freeze this winter. A couple inches away did. Planted some Mexican petunias there.

23 hours ago, Nj Palms said:

South side of my house near the foundation didn’t even freeze this winter. A couple inches away did. Planted some Mexican petunias there.

23 hours ago, Nj Palms said:

South side of my house near the foundation didn’t even freeze this winter. A couple inches away did. Planted some Mexican petunias there.

even a Sabal  palmetto might do well in those settings

On 6/28/2020 at 3:04 AM, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Are these Palmettos? or Minor.. Minor should do good even with light protection, 

Hi The ones in Bridgeport are are in very specific  microclimates and

 

1.near south facing wall dark brick wall

2.Large building to protect Blue Northern winds

3.adjacent to the Sound 

4. alot of heat escapes the foundations in those old brick buildings, so i think that helps

5.I really mummy wrap it and insulate the heck out i of it

6. Keep it dry and vent it

 

good luck and keep us posted,

 

DrZnaturally

 

 

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Nj Palms
14 hours ago, DrZnaturally said:

even a Sabal  palmetto might do well in those settings

Hi The ones in Bridgeport are are in very specific  microclimates and

 

1.near south facing wall dark brick wall

2.Large building to protect Blue Northern winds

3.adjacent to the Sound 

4. alot of heat escapes the foundations in those old brick buildings, so i think that helps

5.I really mummy wrap it and insulate the heck out i of it

6. Keep it dry and vent it

 

good luck and keep us posted,

 

DrZnaturally

 

 

Didn’t want anything too big in that’s area against the house but if I did plant a palm there it will be a Mediterranean fan palm. I have a e.cinerea there and didn’t expect it to survive winter but now it is huge. I will wait till a winter knocks that out and then will put the med fan palm. I also planted some ‘Frostproof’ gardenias there.

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Aceraceae
On 6/29/2020 at 7:11 PM, DrZnaturally said:

even a Sabal  palmetto might do well in those settings

Hi The ones in Bridgeport are are in very specific  microclimates and

 

1.near south facing wall dark brick wall

2.Large building to protect Blue Northern winds

3.adjacent to the Sound 

4. alot of heat escapes the foundations in those old brick buildings, so i think that helps

5.I really mummy wrap it and insulate the heck out i of it

6. Keep it dry and vent it

 

good luck and keep us posted,

 

DrZnaturally

 

 

 

Has it gone any years unwrapped and years such as in the December 2015 and january 2016 street view where it seems to be uncovered? Maybe during mild winters such as 2015/6 or 16/17 or 2020 and 21 so far?

Screenshot 2021-12-30 8.27.03 PM.png

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