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California and Baja coco enthusiasts, some suggestions:

GottmitAlex

By GottmitAlex
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

Posted
Posted (edited)

It may even apply to folks in Arizona.

(Outdoor/in ground)

This is my opinion/suggestion/belief only.

Bassd on documented evidence (San Diego zoo for one). Cocos nucifera cannot do well when transplanted. You know, a nice coconut with several rings to its trunk.  The roots (even if transplanted late Feb/early March) in a 7-8 month timespan cannot fully develop and they wither and die.  Hence, the reason to get a coconut seedling, they can be protected for 2, 3 years and establish a good root system during that period.

And of course,  location, location, location. = not near the coast.

Here again, JMHO.

 

 

20190926_174550.jpg

Edited by GottmitAlex
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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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56 minutes ago, branislav said:

"Not near the coast": you just dashed my hopes. I was getting so inspired by your coconuts. How near is near?

8 línear miles or closer.

I'm 12 linear miles from the coast.

Usually the the closer one gets to the coast in oit latitude, the weather is much cooler ( about 10F cooler ) and cloudy (marine layer/overcast).

 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted

Damn!!!! I remember when you planted those a few years ago. Cool to to see their progress over the years and  are looking amazing!!!

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Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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21 minutes ago, Josh-O said:

Damn!!!! I remember when you planted those a few years ago. Cool to to see their progress over the years and  are looking amazing!!!

danke

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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But cocos nucifera cannot grow and thrive in California.

Reminds of the song Molly Malone.

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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palmfriend Grand Master

palmfriend

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Alex,

your palms are not even struggling - they are really looking great! 

Great documentation!

Best regards -

Lars

 

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rprimbs Mentor

rprimbs

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That's interesting that you say 'not near the coast'. 

I have noticed that a variety of sub-tropical fruits seem to do better inland -- I'm Escondido -- than on the coast (My parents place down the street from Dean's old place in Encinitas, on Eolus Avenue).  I had mango's and jackfruit die in Encinitas, but they seem to do fine here.  But I am also up on a hill above the frost line here.

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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1 hour ago, palmfriend said:

Alex,

your palms are not even struggling - they are really looking great! 

Great documentation!

Best regards -

Lars

 

Thanks Lars, they seem to be thriving. 

We're off to Church and I took this pic about right before leaving.

They seem happy.

15697712769775314070109574960516.jpg

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Palmaceae Grand Master

Palmaceae

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Thanks Lars, they seem to be thriving. 

We're off to Church and I took this pic about right before leaving.

They seem happy.

15697712769775314070109574960516.jpg

Looking really good Alex, great job growing coconuts in a not so friendly climate!

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Lived in Cape Coral, Miami, Orlando and St. Petersburg Florida.

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Cluster Mentor

Cluster

Posted
Posted

I wouldn't be as pessimistic, look at Delmar coconut near coast, that one looks very nice. I haven't seen a coco totally exposed in California, though, so people trying them should seek similar methods for small protection as the ones doing fine in Cali.

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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7 hours ago, Cluster said:

I wouldn't be as pessimistic, look at Delmar coconut near coast, that one looks very nice. I haven't seen a coco totally exposed in California, though, so people trying them should seek similar methods for small protection as the ones doing fine in Cali.

Are there any updated pics of the Del mar coco?

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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mnorell Mentor

mnorell

Posted
Posted

Just to clarify on a general level, Cocos nucifera is one of the easiest palms to transplant with respect to root growth. Unlike Sabal and a number of others, Cocos has roots that will quickly branch when cut some distance from the trunk. Sabal and others that were studied (I believe by Tim Broschat and colleagues) showed no branching and had to regrow new roots from the trunk. Which is why down here in the Florida Keys we can yank a Cocos out of the ground and tear the roots up, stick it in a new location (always in the shade, though!) and water it...and it's back in business pretty quickly. Sabal, Coccothrinax, Leucothrinax and many others require half of the roots to be severed, then a wait of 2-6 months for new roots to regrow on that side of the trunk, then the other side can be severed and the newly grown roots will carry the palm through in its new location. The difference here with Cocos is one of climate. In SoCal the temperatures for robust root growth in the soil would only exist for a short period of time, mostly in late summer (Aug-Sep). In that situation, the tactic I would personally employ would be: 1) dig the palm as far from the trunk as possible to preserve roots, during the summer months; 2) remove some lower leaves if there are not many good roots; and 3) put it in a greenhouse for a year in shade, 80F temps and humidity, so it can regrow a good number of roots. At that point it could be replanted, in July, into an optimal location (not easy to find along the coastal belt...and certainly not at the San Diego Zoo!).

This has been argued for a long time on this forum, but the basics are that Cocos require warm nights (which is when they produce new tissue) and a brief winter, which in Alta California limits them mostly to the Coachella and Imperial Valleys in air-drained locations. Closer to the coast requires (as most of us know) copious adjustments in terms of soil amendment, warmth, drainage, sun exposure, etc. To get a good crown on a Cocos takes time even in a tropical climate. After Irma destroyed the crowns of so many of our coconuts here on Big Pine Key (in our neighborhood we had 160+mph winds, gobs of tornadoes and 12+ hours under 4-5 ft of ocean)...and it has taken 20-24 months since the storm to get a full crown on those defoliated palms. That is with winter nighttime temps mostly in the 70s and summer nighttime temps always in the 80s. So it is a tough job to get good-looking Cocos in a cool environment.

And Alex, I have to say, your Cocos look great!!! May I also add that down here, in my own personal experience, Panama Talls are the fastest, most robust-growing form of Cocos from seed to tree. I would encourage all California coconut enthusiasts to test various forms, and particularly to place their bets on a few Panama Talls...if you can find them...

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Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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22 minutes ago, mnorell said:

Just to clarify on a general level, Cocos nucifera is one of the easiest palms to transplant with respect to root growth. 

Mike,

thank you. Your premise is quite valid, but not for California. 

Ask any forum member who has tried to transplant a mature coconut into Cali. They succumb and perish. As you say, it's probably due to the cool weather.

I agree with your statement that talls are the fastest and may I add, the most cold hardiest of the species. 

I have a 2-year old storebought dehusked coco from Jalisco, Mexico which germinated in-haus and has been planted in the narrow garden sliver. Well, it already towers the 3 year old green malayan dwarfs. 

I got lucky and it is a golden Mexican tall.

It is a rocket.

On the pic, it's the one on the left.

 

Thank you very much for your insight!

Alex

 

20190930_142648.jpg

Edited by GottmitAlex
  • Upvote 1

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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mnorell Mentor

mnorell

Posted
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Yes, of course I meant "in general" in a warm subtropical/tropical climate, and with the understanding that SoCal presents very unique challenges which I'm not surprised would affect root-growth. Though I think in that narrow late-summer window they would stand a chance of branching and continuing growth in a warm, sandy soil; and certainly while in an optimal greenhouse environment, they would more or less react as they do in Florida or other more tropical areas.

Also, isn't the predominant Pacific-side 'Mexican Tall' form very similar to the Panama/Pacific Tall? Ours here also have a golden (though perhaps a deeper "caramel") petiole, at least while young. Perhaps if they are closely related that may be a contributing reason that the 'Mexican Tall' is growing robustly for you?

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Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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GottmitAlex Grand Master

GottmitAlex

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7 hours ago, mnorell said:

Also, isn't the predominant Pacific-side 'Mexican Tall' form very similar to the Panama/Pacific Tall? Ours here also have a golden (though perhaps a deeper "caramel") petiole, at least while young. Perhaps if they are closely related that may be a contributing reason that the 'Mexican Tall' is growing robustly for you?

 I think it is.    The Jamaican/Atlantic and the Panama/Pacific.

 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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