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Palmsofengland

London’s palmy potential

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Palmsofengland

It is certainly not my intention to further any incorrect portrayal or perception of Great Britain as an island of warmth or abundant sunshine. However, the fact remains that due to the mildness of our climate, Central London and the Scilly Isles are both temperature Oceanic climates, very closely bordering on humid subtropical. The criterion for this classification is very clear- 8 months of the year with a mean temperature greater than it equal to 10*C, ergo we are not subtropical. Perhaps with a continuation of the current warming trend, these most sheltered places may become subtropical in the sense of the definition of ‘subtropical’ in the Trewartha climate classification. Nevertheless, everyone is free to view climate data for the UK, which would inform them that such a climate would remain unable to support the vast majority of palm species, so the classification is misleading as an indication of palm-growing potential. What I have written is entirely unbiased and factual as all the members here are free view climate statistics for our nation, so it be futile to attempt to hoodwink people. I feel that the climate debate has run its course, but does anyone have any further experience with the cultural requirements of the palms listed, or any other suggestions for palms that I haven’t mentioned?

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PalmatierMeg

Regarding your list on Pg 1, I can't grow many, if not most, of the species you mention so I have only vicarious experience with them. A lot of them come from cooler areas of altitude or influence from the sea. Months of excessive hot days with almost no nightly cooldowns certainly may doom them. But some of those species (Juania esp.) cannot take extreme lows, i.e., below 0C and require a narrow range of temps to survive (5C - 25C). And the UK is not that far from the Arctic.

Of the species I do have experience with, most of them will struggle or outright perish in your temperate maritime climate. That includes the following genera (I am assuming all are intended for outdoor planting, not pot culture):

Acanthophoenix

Euterpe

Ravenea

Chambeyronia

Kentiopsis

I have doubts about Archonotophoenix, Beccariophoenix, Brahea, Livistona, Syagrus, Howea, Orianopsis & Geonoma (I can't grow the last two). I don't know about all the Phoenix spp - some may be too adapted to hot, dry climates to survive in the UK.

The no-grows require access to sun and lots of heat to do well. Consistently heat deprived, they will struggle and decline. A 2-week heat wave in mid-summer is not enough to carry them  through short, cold winter days unless they are protected. Lows below -4C will almost certainly kill them outright.

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Palmsofengland

Thanks for the advice Meg. I think Juania Australis has survived -7C in Dublin and that palm is apparently thriving, so I think it may actually be hardier than given credit for. I believe almost all Braheas are doable here, although given others comments, I am getting sense that the other palms you have  mentioned (except maybe Livistona) will be more difficult, although hopefully not all impossible. Am I to assume that information I read about Euterpe Edulis being as hardy as Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana is incorrect or maybe only holds true in warmer year-round climates?

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John in Andalucia

The UK climate is not subtropical. As an island nation, the UK on the whole has a temperate maritime climate. Any sensible palm grower in the UK knows this.

A few people wanted to play up the UK climate, which annoyed a few people who took slight with their exaggerations and so it went on, but there's nothing wrong with challenging perceptions, or correcting generalisations.

The UK does have more than one climate classification, as does the USA. Where 'subtropical' has been raised, is in reference to locations within the UK based on meteorological data from the past 10 years studied by our universities; locations which are now eligible to a borderline subtropical climate classification, in the same way that NYC is borderline humid subtropical (because of its winter low temperatures). London, by the way, is not one of these eligible locations. 

These are facts, based on research, documented on the Internet. The fact that it's documented that certain UK locations can now, or may now be classified as subtropical, is a consequence of global climate change. As others have mentioned however, plant survivability has no baring on a subtropical climate. The latter has become a war of words which has caused more than a few 'knee-jerk' comments.

So ditto what petiole10 said, and please don't exasperate the problem with unfounded statements such as -'There’s many cold islands like England' - when we're neither. 

I'll also echo her sentiments regarding the OP.  All he wanted to do was harness London's UHI effect and do what so many of us do - push the boundaries. Looking to the future, this should become easier, certainly for London over the coming decades.

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redbeard917

Definitely try Geonoma and some high elevation Chamaedoreas (among many others) and let us know. When I first got into palms, I was assured my "hot and humid" (which it is, but only in summer) climate would make growing Brahea and Trithrinax impossible, so I didn't try. After a while I saw others in the region growing them and I recently decided to give it a go, and I have had both in my garden for a few growing seasons, albeit at a very small size. I could have enjoyed them for much longer if I hadn't been held back by the naysayers, and I hope no one on this forum is similarly timid.

Further, large urban areas do indeed have microclimates, and gardening in microclimates can be a lot of fun. For example, there have been Majesty palms in downtown Tallahassee for about a decade now, just because of lucky placement, which are at least a full USDA zone out of place, if not more. Of course they don't look very good, but the point is that if a person ignorant of a plant's requirements can accidentally take advantage of a growing opportunity, a clever gardener can also.

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Gonzer

0c4.gif

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GottmitAlex
36 minutes ago, Gonzer said:

0c4.gif

Wundebar!!!! Ahahaha!!

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RJ
2 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Wundebar!!!! Ahahaha!!

Ditto... as noted about 12h ago :interesting:

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petiole10
13 hours ago, Palmsofengland said:

Thanks for the advice Meg. I think Juania Australis has survived -7C in Dublin and that palm is apparently thriving, so I think it may actually be hardier than given credit for. I believe almost all Braheas are doable here, although given others comments, I am getting sense that the other palms you have  mentioned (except maybe Livistona) will be more difficult, although hopefully not all impossible. Am I to assume that information I read about Euterpe Edulis being as hardy as Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana is incorrect or maybe only holds true in warmer year-round climates?

Its good to see your thread back on topic.

Brahea Armata is fine here, (bar if any notable cold weather was expected) and I have kept two small slow growing ones for the last two/three years (as pictured previously) But even the Brahea need protection from the worst of the combination of chilly temperatures and too much wetness in the winter. If any higher risk weather was expected, the two that I have which are potted, would come inside until those conditions passed.  I also pictured P roebellini, which I treat as an indoor palm during winter as well as a thriving Kentia palm which seems ok with relatively chilly nights but would not risk any hint of frost.

I think all sorts of boundaries can be pushed if some of these listed palms are kept in pots, because its possible to manipulate growing conditions to suit them and move them around accordingly. I have also kept a Saribus Rotundifolius for a couple of years as an outdoor palm throughout summer, and which seems to be doing ok and pushed out a few new fronds slowly over this time

SAM_1911.thumb.JPG.d667805d783ad5ec0a31f4fcf00468ec.JPG

 

However, the gist of this thread is about testing palms in the list planted outdoors. My circumstances dictate that I cannot plant out my palms (and they would come with me if I moved). But as they are potted it means I can play safe if necessary and keep risk to a minimum.  But it is  of course an individual decision :)

 

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Ivorhooper

Livistona australis and nitida would be worth a punt in London. My nitida lives outside in a pot probably 363 days a year and I'm in York so 200 miles further north than London.

Variations of Nikau could do well also.

C. Radicalis, C microspadix, 4 X chamaerops, 4 X butia, trachies, jubaea all live in my garden outside so climate is definitely getting slowly warmer here.

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redbeard917

Here are those two Majesties (Ravenea) I mentioned. They have been in this location about 10 years or so, planted as the ubiquitous 3 gallon size. There were originally 8 of them, one per alcove, but the rest succumbed to our cold winters. The trunk damage on these two tells the tale, they've been unprotected other than their advantageous location. The rest have long since been replaced with knockout roses.

So gardening in an urban heat island can be really fun and interesting and absolutely can allow you to grow plants that have no chance in outlying areas. I'm interested to see what you all achieve, especially with more rare cool-loving palms that most of us can't grow (Ceroxylon, Parajubaea, etc?).

IMG_20191020_114511630_HDR.jpg

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floridagrower
2 hours ago, redbeard917 said:

Here are those two Majesties (Ravenea) I mentioned. They have been in this location about 10 years or so, planted as the ubiquitous 3 gallon size. There were originally 8 of them, one per alcove, but the rest succumbed to our cold winters. The trunk damage on these two tells the tale, they've been unprotected other than their advantageous location. The rest have long since been replaced with knockout roses.

So gardening in an urban heat island can be really fun and interesting and absolutely can allow you to grow plants that have no chance in outlying areas. I'm interested to see what you all achieve, especially with more rare cool-loving palms that most of us can't grow (Ceroxylon, Parajubaea, etc?).

IMG_20191020_114511630_HDR.jpg

I can confirm that at least four were removed when a new tenant moved in the building. It was in the summer and not a result of cold. Is the third one still on the end? If not, that's a recent development. There are a few in residential yards that a larger than these now. Some way outside of the urban areas.

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NorCalKing

Meanwhile.....In a "real" Med climate :D

Screen Shot 2019-10-24 at 3.47.16 PM.png

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SubarcticUK
23 minutes ago, NorCalKing said:

Meanwhile.....In a "real" Med climate :D

Screen Shot 2019-10-24 at 3.47.16 PM.png

 

68ºF / 20ºC here in Portland, which is classified as "cool Mediterranean". Forecast is almost completely rainless thanks to the big block over the NE Pacific.

Edited by SubarcticUK
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Dave-Vero

The majesties bring up a situation in Orlando, a city that has frosts and occasional freezes, sometimes nasty ones.  Back maybe seven years ago, the local Ikea store set up an outdoor summer display and employees planted some of the majesties that they sell for house plants outside to add to the atmosphere.   They've done fine.  No idea how long it might take for a nasty freeze to do them in.   Eric from Leu Gardens has done a great job of documenting Leu's microclimates, thanks to a lake and tree canopy.  The overall Orlando heat island has grown rapidly as the urban blob expands.  

It took Portlanders a while to catch on that they have a cool Mediterranean climate.  To some extent, the northwest of Spain is a good climate match.  Twenty years ago, there was a fashion for New Zealand plants, which unfortunately tended to die in the summer drought.  

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branislav
On 10/12/2019 at 3:17 AM, John in Andalucia said:

Similar to the controversy with Virginia Beach, it's more about native planting and local perceptions. Florida and California are 'palmy' because palms are native to these regions.
 

Not to hijack the thread, but there's only one palm native to California -- Washingtonia filifera -- and it only grows natively in the inland desert. The (crappier) look-alike, the W. robusta, that lines up streets in LA is a Mexican import. Everything else that makes us palmy is imported - Queens, Kings, CIDPs, Mediterranean Fan Palms, all the stuff commonly grown in SoCal is here because people decided it would be a good look for the place. We are blessed with the weather that allows it to happen, but we're palmy because people decided to make it so. This ain't the tropics. Or Florida, or Hawaii...

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Darold Petty

Two thumbs up for Branislav's comment!  :greenthumb::greenthumb:

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GottmitAlex
On 10/25/2019 at 11:23 AM, branislav said:

Not to hijack the thread, but there's only one palm native to California -- Washingtonia filifera -- and it only grows natively in the inland desert. The (crappier) look-alike, the W. robusta, that lines up streets in LA is a Mexican import. Everything else that makes us palmy is imported - Queens, Kings, CIDPs, Mediterranean Fan Palms, all the stuff commonly grown in SoCal is here because people decided it would be a good look for the place. We are blessed with the weather that allows it to happen, but we're palmy because people decided to make it so. This ain't the tropics. Or Florida, or Hawaii...

Agreed. Except for filifera, all palms successfully growing in california are either accidentally or purposefully planted. 

 

 

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John in Andalucia
On 10/25/2019 at 7:23 PM, branislav said:

Not to hijack the thread, but there's only one palm native to California -- Washingtonia filifera -- and it only grows natively in the inland desert. The (crappier) look-alike, the W. robusta, that lines up streets in LA is a Mexican import. Everything else that makes us palmy is imported - Queens, Kings, CIDPs, Mediterranean Fan Palms, all the stuff commonly grown in SoCal is here because people decided it would be a good look for the place. We are blessed with the weather that allows it to happen, but we're palmy because people decided to make it so. This ain't the tropics. Or Florida, or Hawaii...

I realise my comment may have been taken as a generalisation, but that wasn't the intention.

One native species doesn't make California palmy per se, but as you well know, this topic concerns the potential for urban 'palmification'. I think that highlighting the absence of naturally occurring, native palm populations is an unnecessary attempt at making a point, especially since you've already acknowledged that California is palmy.


I also made a point about local perceptions, which, if you live in California, shouldn't be so hard to comprehend. :D

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UK_Palms
On 10/24/2019 at 11:48 PM, NorCalKing said:

Meanwhile.....In a "real" Med climate :D

Screen Shot 2019-10-24 at 3.47.16 PM.png

It seems like you are mocking the UK growers and our climate with these sort of witty comments. It definitely feels in poor taste. 

We already know that you live in a hot Mediterranean climate, which is significantly warmer than our own. I don't see why you need to rub it in and accentuate that our climate is awful (based on your previous comments in this thread). I mean why not post this in the "what is your current temperature" thread in the weather section!?

And I don't see how this sort of comment is relevant to UK palm growers, given that this topic had got back on track! :hmm:

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Dave-Vero

Southern England is a bit odd in that it was glaciated and had to be recolonized by plants from far south.  The way the climate is going, a number of palms may be pretty well adapted to the present (and future) climate but just haven't had the chance to arrive by natural means, such as bird express.  

 

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branislav
18 hours ago, John in Andalucia said:

One native species doesn't make California palmy per se, but as you well know, this topic concerns the potential for urban 'palmification'. I think that highlighting the absence of naturally occurring, native palm populations is an unnecessary attempt at making a point, especially since you've already acknowledged that California is palmy.

The intent of my comment was to point out that being “palmy” can be an entirely human-driven phenomenon. The near total absence of native palms in California together with the universal image of it being palmy simply proved my point. This was meant as an encouragement to all palm lovers in any climate that permits even a hope of growing some outside to keep trying. Success encourages others and at some point it’s not impossible to imagine an urban palmy landscape in previously unpalmy places. 

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John in Andalucia
2 hours ago, branislav said:

The intent of my comment was to point out that being “palmy” can be an entirely human-driven phenomenon. The near total absence of native palms in California together with the universal image of it being palmy simply proved my point. This was meant as an encouragement to all palm lovers in any climate that permits even a hope of growing some outside to keep trying. Success encourages others and at some point it’s not impossible to imagine an urban palmy landscape in previously unpalmy places. 

I'm pleased to hear we agree with the concept of 'palmy' as being a non-natural phenomenon. Your first post appeared to suggest the contrary.

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh.

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Chester B
11 hours ago, branislav said:

The intent of my comment was to point out that being “palmy” can be an entirely human-driven phenomenon. The near total absence of native palms in California together with the universal image of it being palmy simply proved my point. This was meant as an encouragement to all palm lovers in any climate that permits even a hope of growing some outside to keep trying. Success encourages others and at some point it’s not impossible to imagine an urban palmy landscape in previously unpalmy places. 

There is some palm prejudice here in Portland too, even though palms have been used here for decades.  They are commonly used now in new commercial landscapes along with Yuccas and Phormium due to their architectural look.  For example there isn't a McDonalds around without a whack load of Trachycarpus and they did a great job at the main train station.  I occasionally get a snide remark but generally get a lot more positive feedback then negative.

Now if we could only start getting rid of the Norway Maples they planted back in the day.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/uFHcEx2S7cT2Sduf7

 

Edited by Chester B

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NorCalKing
On 10/27/2019 at 6:58 AM, UK_Palms said:

It seems like you are mocking the UK growers and our climate with these sort of witty comments. It definitely feels in poor taste. 

We already know that you live in a hot Mediterranean climate, which is significantly warmer than our own. I don't see why you need to rub it in and accentuate that our climate is awful (based on your previous comments in this thread). I mean why not post this in the "what is your current temperature" thread in the weather section!?

And I don't see how this sort of comment is relevant to UK palm growers, given that this topic had got back on track! :hmm:

I was actually trying to lighten the mode, not poking fun at the UK climate. I've said before it's actually pretty crazy what will grow there. In fact in my first post I was defending your position. Where we differed was in the speed you felt the UK was becoming a Med type climate. Hence my poking fun regarding "true" Med climates.

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richnorm
On 10/17/2019 at 9:31 AM, Palmsofengland said:

 I read about Euterpe Edulis being as hardy as Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana is incorrect or maybe only holds true in warmer year-round climates?

Nah, needs more heat and can't take as much cold, especially as small plants.  It is great to see the palming up of London (and elsewhere in the UK and Ireland) of recent years.   Seeing all those CIDP's in tiny gardens I can forsee a repeat of the leylandii wars that were raging before I left!

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Palmsofengland
8 hours ago, richnorm said:

Nah, needs more heat and can't take as much cold, especially as small plants.  It is great to see the palming up of London (and elsewhere in the UK and Ireland) of recent years.   Seeing all those CIDP's in tiny gardens I can forsee a repeat of the leylandii wars that were raging before I left!

How much cold do they take? Where’s the line in NZ where they start to become long-term?

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richnorm
12 hours ago, Palmsofengland said:

How much cold do they take? Where’s the line in NZ where they start to become long-term?

I'm in Auckland, above the frost line, maybe 3-5c minimum and not very often.  Even here seedlings can struggle through winter whereas Bangalows don't miss a beat.   I couldn't draw a line for you because they are not very common but nothing more than light frost would be my guess.  They hate the wind too.   My dad lives in Glos. and I really doubt you would have any chance outside but i might be able to get you some seed if you want try!  

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Palmsofengland

Absolutely no chance in Gloucestershire. I would like to try them out in central London or in the a sheltered garden in the far south-west of Cornwall, near Penzance, though so seed would be fantastic!

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richnorm
47 minutes ago, Palmsofengland said:

Absolutely no chance in Gloucestershire. I would like to try them out in central London or in the a sheltered garden in the far south-west of Cornwall, near Penzance, though so seed would be fantastic!

I will be over in Feb and will bring seed from my own trees if you remind me!

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Palmsofengland

Sounds great. Pm me when you know exactly when you’re over.

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B87

Typical November weather, endless sub-10C highs with rain every day and virtually no sun. I need to get out of this subpolar oceanic hellhole.

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UK_Palms
2 hours ago, B87 said:

Typical November weather, endless sub-10C highs with rain every day and virtually no sun. I need to get out of this subpolar oceanic hellhole.

Massive exaggeration there. We are yet to see a day that has not exceeded 10C, since last March. Over the past 2 weeks, the highs have been in the 12-15C range, although we are due to enter a cooler spell now in the next few days, with temps below average. The temperatures should recover back to normal, and to double digits, by mid next week. Nothing too extreme though, considering we are at 51N. 

And we had very clear, sunny skies yesterday with a decent amount of sun all morning. November is statistically the wettest month, along with October, so rainfall is nothing out of the ordinary there. If you think we get a lot of rain during November, you should check out the forecast for Rome and Athens. Besides, we had an 8 week drought during the spring and a 10 week drought the previous summer. So it's nowhere near as wet as you make out, in the grand scheme of things. We're just at the wettest period of the year right now. 

And to suggest that we are "subpolar hellhole" is just ridiculous. If that was the case, CIDP and Washies wouldn't be growing in London.

I would love to see what you make of a winter in NYC :lol2:

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sipalms

@UK_Palms, please do not take this offensively, just a light hearted joke.... you would make an exceptional defence attorney/lawyer! :interesting:.

Screenshot_20191109-162104_Chrome.thumb.jpg.0cd260cdccca39327c814be4a57f4f47.jpg

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Don't you live near Guildford? There are no highs above 10C. 

Also doesn't show icons in that forecast but only two days show any sun out of the next 10.

Edited by sipalms
Added pics

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GottmitAlex
2 hours ago, sipalms said:

@UK_Palms, please do not take this offensively, just a light hearted joke.... you would make an exceptional defence attorney/lawyer! :interesting:.

Screenshot_20191109-162104_Chrome.thumb.jpg.0cd260cdccca39327c814be4a57f4f47.jpg

Screenshot_20191109-162109_Chrome.thumb.jpg.f7d87d2035fd2e6863c920e8f88c391a.jpg

Don't you live near Guildford? There are no highs above 10C. 

Also doesn't show icons in that forecast but only two days show any sun out of the next 10.

There are microclimates.  If you happen to remotely follow what an official weather station reports about its temperatures, and not what is the true temps in a particular area, than I agree with your assessment/implication. However there are microclimates all around the globe. Even at 51°.  

You'd be surprised.

Honestly, if I had read Coconut palms do not grow at 33°, I would have not procured one. This is a learning experience coupled with common sense of course. I am pretty sure sone palms grow in parts of London.  

 

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sipalms

I reckon the Met Office should pack up and go home. Likewise with weather.com and AccuWeather who report forecasts, and anything else remotely official. They are all complete BS. They always lie in forecasts. They always miss report high and low temperatures. They place their official thermometers in the coldest places possible and this results in huge differences to real recordings from actual back yards. They also always show lots of clouds and rain and hardly any sun. It's just ludicrous. Fake news is real. 

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GottmitAlex
25 minutes ago, sipalms said:

I reckon the Met Office should pack up and go home. Likewise with weather.com and AccuWeather who report forecasts, and anything else remotely official. They are all complete BS. They always lie in forecasts. They always miss report high and low temperatures. They place their official thermometers in the coldest places possible and this results in huge differences to real recordings from actual back yards. They also always show lots of clouds and rain and hardly any sun. It's just ludicrous. Fake news is real. 

Might I suggest weather underground: wunderground.com

You do reside in England, right?

Edited by GottmitAlex

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sipalms

@GottmitAlex no, I do not reside in England. I'm from Christchurch, New Zealand. I live in a tropical paradise desert Mediterranean Humid monsoon 11a climate, and in recent years and we have had no frosts. Every summer it basically is 40 degrees every day, because we're at 43 degrees S, remember. And don't anyone dare question it because we have massive microclimates here so all official recordings and forecasts are null and void. I know it doesn't look like it right now, but in a few years time around here it will look like Singapore with bismarkias and coconuts gracing the sky. You're welcome.

Edited by sipalms
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petiole10

That overnight temperature for inland SE England was correct on a widespread basis  - no micro climate would have made a vast difference to it with the clear skies, light wind and chilly airmass. Here where I am close to the coast it was a degree or two higher but probably the lowest night temperatures yet.   

The last few weeks have seen temperatures generally below the average for the time of year over here, and I have taken quite a few of my potted palms inside most susceptible to a combination of persistent wet conditions and lower than usual temperature . Especially the Washingtonia.  Despite some suggestions to the contrary,  day time temperatures have been struggling to reach the low to mid 50's other than occasional days - and are now fallen lower still to the mid upper 40's - when more usually in this part of country they would still be readily enough mostly in the mid 50's and sometimes upper 50's and lower 60's in a mild year.  So again perspective needed to some of the suggestions placed by other reports and assessments in the country,  which over exaggerate both the upside and downside of temperatures and conditions in general

The hope is that a very disappointingly poor cold and excessively wet late October and November with very unwelcome early reminders of winter, give way to a milder than average start to the winter itself. From a palm growing point of view, its very much a case of keeping tuned to forecasts and waiting and hoping for changes. But the coming two weeks at least unfortunately look like more of the same, with increased earlier than usual frost risks - and further efforts needed to reduce the saturation of soil vs the colder than usual temperatures. Potted specimens need the mot protection from this combination and more will be coming indoors over the coming week. based on the adverse conditions. 

Spring seems even further away than it is when its like this - and with still the whole winter to come...

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UK_Palms

@sipalms Okay, first of all we have just entered a real cold snap over the past few days with temps below average for the time of year. Up until Wednesday, we had not had any highs that failed to reach 10C. But as we move closer to winter and experience this colder than average spell, temps are obviously down somewhat now, which you would naturally expect. 

Central London is still yet to record a frost. First frost date on average is usually around second week of November. I'm however 30 miles outside of central London and around 35 miles inland from the nearest bit of coastline. London is only around 10 miles from the coast, depending how you look at it. Plus they have the urban heat island effect there. So I get much colder than London during the winter, especially at night. But I also experience hotter temperatures than London during summer in my southern, inland location. Again, I have clocked multiple 37-38C summer highs in recent years. 

So far I have experienced two frosts here, with the lowest recorded temperature being -0.9C and another low of -0.4C as well. Both of these nights were crystal clear skies allowing the temperatures to plummet and radiation frosts to set in. The frost couldn't be that severe though as I still have pepper plants outdoors with pods maturing on them. Some pepper plants of which are completely untouched by the cool temps. The banana plants however have seen their foliage die back until the spring now. -0.4C was enough to knock them out.  

Yesterday, my high was 9.8C and my low was 5.1C here. Today, I reached a high of 11.6C and have a low of 4C forecast again tonight. Certainly nothing too extreme though. Many palm species will be unfazed by these sort of temperatures and by the end of next week it will warm up again with temps closer to average. Not that is is overly cold right now, so to speak. 

I have family in the US, who reside in Indiana and I see they hit -9C on Friday night. They also have a high temperature of -4C forecast in the next few days. Far colder than anything I experience during mid January even. Places like Chicago and Detroit are already in the minuses every night now and getting snow. Temps as low as -10C for them in the coming nights.

Yet, it's so cold here in southern England... that my Chambeyronia Macrocarpa is pushing out a new frond...

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