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London’s palmy potential

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sipalms
1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

No, the extreme southwest of England definitely isn't 'subtropical', is it...

No, it is not.

Will anyone else on here agree with me?

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sipalms
1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

No, the extreme southwest of England definitely isn't 'subtropical', is it...

No, it is not.

Will anyone else on here agree with me?

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UK_Palms

@sipalms I agree that the British Isles in general are a temperate oceanic climate.

But please explain to me how New York City can be classified as a humid subtropical climate then!? I don't see any CIDP's, Washingtonia or even Chamaerops growing in NYC. Whereas they thrive here across the south of England.

The extreme southwest of England has to fall into the subtropical category, surely. Especially if NYC is classified as subtropical. Given that you can actually grow subtropical species in the southwest of England, unprotected. Something you certainly cannot do in NYC.

 

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B87
34 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

@sipalms I agree that the British Isles in general are a temperate oceanic climate.

But please explain to me how New York City can be classified as a humid subtropical climate then!? I don't see any CIDP's, Washingtonia or even Chamaerops growing in NYC. Whereas they thrive here across the south of England.

The extreme southwest of England has to fall into the subtropical category, surely. Especially if NYC is classified as subtropical. Given that you can actually grow subtropical species in the southwest of England, unprotected. Something you certainly cannot do in NYC.

 

Because climates are not (and should not) be defined by the plants that can survive there. It's not like palms thrive or are naturalized anywhere in england, in fact, partially due to our climate, we have extremely low floral biodiversity compared to most places. NYC is classified as subtropical because it has hot, sunny, and stormy summers. We, on the other hand have lukewarm summers with endless low 20's and partly to mostly cloudy skies interspersed with periods of teens and rain and sun and upper 20's. 

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sipalms

@UK_Palms. I would like to humbly apologize to you.

In all my years and days and over several different trips to the UK, including London and Cornwall, I never realised that the UK has such a beautiful nearly Mediterranean and subtropical climate in London and the southeast.

I'm sorry for making some gentle enquiries into your claims. I don't live there and can only go off clearly outdated and inaccurate climate figures.

Please enjoy your beautiful climate and all the wonderful palms, tropical plants, citrus, kiwifruit, avocados and wine that is and will be produced there.

I'm sure the UK should do more to attract visitors to this little isle of subtropical, Mediterranean paradise, rather than just to the old buildings, history and pub culture.

If I lived there I would plant as many tropical palms as I could fit into my tiny back yard, especially tender varieties like Queens and Bangalows and parajubea and B. Alfredii. I would go all out and put my retirement savings into this - surely when the population wakes up to the pot of gold they are sitting on, that is, the previously unknown climate, and ability to transform London into Barcelona, then properties like mine will sky rocket in value with their already towering subtropical palms gently dusting the sunny skies. You could even petition to start changing important place names to more exotic sounding varieties like London > San Londres, and Portsmouth > Boca del Puerto. No wonder Thomas Cook went broke - they didn't notice this transformation, and instead of Malaga and Palma all their customers were headed to Marazion and Penzance.

Of course I will do my utmost best to stay away from commenting or enquiring any further, and will still follow UK developments with a keen interest.

 I'm glad all your future summers will undoubtedly filled with glorious sun and tropical heat, and cold winters are a thing of the past.

All the best, J.

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B87
1 hour ago, sipalms said:

No, it is not.

Will anyone else on here agree with me?

It's not even remotely close to subtropical. 

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John in Andalucia
4 minutes ago, B87 said:

It's not even remotely close to subtropical. 

"The county has got much hotter over the past decade, according to a report from Exeter University using meteorological and environmental data. On average, temperatures stay above 10C (50F) for more than seven months of the year, meaning it can be classed as subtropical."

This also explains why Cornwall - albeit classified as 'borderline' - is on Wikipedia's, "List of locations with a subtropical climate".

It will only get hotter over the next decade, so why not wake up to the facts now?

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Palmsofengland
5 minutes ago, John in Andalucia said:

"The county has got much hotter over the past decade, according to a report from Exeter University using meteorological and environmental data. On average, temperatures stay above 10C (50F) for more than seven months of the year, meaning it can be classed as subtropical."

This also explains why Cornwall - albeit classified as 'borderline' - is on Wikipedia's, "List of locations with a subtropical climate".

It will only get hotter over the next decade, so why not wake up to the facts now?

I think the best way to look at it is that the climate of the very warmest places in the UK is technically bordering on subtropical, but that the range of palms currently able to be grown here would not reflect that of a typical ‘subtropical’ climate, although the point of this thread was to see how far I could push the envelope.

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John in Andalucia
37 minutes ago, Palmsofengland said:

I think the best way to look at it is that the climate of the very warmest places in the UK is technically bordering on subtropical, but that the range of palms currently able to be grown here would not reflect that of a typical ‘subtropical’ climate, although the point of this thread was to see how far I could push the envelope.

Thanks for agreeing that Cornwall is subtropical. Let's hope the 'naysayers' get behind the facts and encourage your endeavours! I would like to point out however, that the northern regions of 'subtropical' Spain in no way match the climate and palm growing capabilities of the south coast of Spain. So I have to disagree with your notion of a 'typical' subtropical climate. Bananas will not survive in Zaragoza for example, whilst they flourish on the Costa Granadina.

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Palmsofengland

Thanks for the encouragement John. My parents are actually buying a house down near Penzance, so I will be exploring palm-growing limits in Cornwall as well. To your point about Spain, I wouldn’t consider northern, inland areas like Zaragoza to exhibit what I would consider to be a ‘typical’ subtropical climate, whilst obviously southern coastal areas do and hence are able to grow and enviable range of tropicals.

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B87
3 hours ago, John in Andalucia said:

"The county has got much hotter over the past decade, according to a report from Exeter University using meteorological and environmental data. On average, temperatures stay above 10C (50F) for more than seven months of the year, meaning it can be classed as subtropical."

This also explains why Cornwall - albeit classified as 'borderline' - is on Wikipedia's, "List of locations with a subtropical climate".

It will only get hotter over the next decade, so why not wake up to the facts now?

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Anyone who lives in an actual subtropical climate would straight up laugh at you if you told them a place average 19C highs in mid-summer was "subtropical". Many subtropical places rarely see 19C LOWS during the summer. 

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SubarcticUK
1 hour ago, B87 said:

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Anyone who lives in an actual subtropical climate would straight up laugh at you if you told them a place average 19C highs in mid-summer was "subtropical". Many subtropical places rarely see 19C LOWS during the summer. 

Definitely. Visit a warm subtropical place like southern Spain, southern Italy, or California and you will quickly learn the truth. Even Portland, which is almost universally NOT considered a subtropical climate, still has much warmer summers than London.

 

If Portland is temperate, then London is indeed NOT EVEN CLOSE to subtropical - the very slightly (0.5°C) warmer winters do not make up for 5°C cooler summers.

 

Edited by SubarcticUK
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PalmsNC
1 hour ago, B87 said:

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Anyone who lives in an actual subtropical climate would straight up laugh at you if you told them a place average 19C highs in mid-summer was "subtropical". Many subtropical places rarely see 19C LOWS during the summer. 

In Raleigh I haven’t had a high under 70 since May ... abnormal yes as typically September will be be first month to go under 70 one or 2 days a month.  Either way abnormal or not London doesn’t even average highs over 70 in June let alone go all of summer , most of May and September with highs above 70 unabated. London has had july  average maximums in the mid 60s. Similar to my March weather or nyc late April weather .

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UK_Palms
4 hours ago, sipalms said:

@UK_Palms. I would like to humbly apologize to you.

In all my years and days and over several different trips to the UK, including London and Cornwall, I never realised that the UK has such a beautiful nearly Mediterranean and subtropical climate in London and the southeast.

I'm sorry for making some gentle enquiries into your claims. I don't live there and can only go off clearly outdated and inaccurate climate figures.

Please enjoy your beautiful climate and all the wonderful palms, tropical plants, citrus, kiwifruit, avocados and wine that is and will be produced there.

I'm sure the UK should do more to attract visitors to this little isle of subtropical, Mediterranean paradise, rather than just to the old buildings, history and pub culture.

If I lived there I would plant as many tropical palms as I could fit into my tiny back yard, especially tender varieties like Queens and Bangalows and parajubea and B. Alfredii. I would go all out and put my retirement savings into this - surely when the population wakes up to the pot of gold they are sitting on, that is, the previously unknown climate, and ability to transform London into Barcelona, then properties like mine will sky rocket in value with their already towering subtropical palms gently dusting the sunny skies. You could even petition to start changing important place names to more exotic sounding varieties like London > San Londres, and Portsmouth > Boca del Puerto. No wonder Thomas Cook went broke - they didn't notice this transformation, and instead of Malaga and Palma all their customers were headed to Marazion and Penzance.

Of course I will do my utmost best to stay away from commenting or enquiring any further, and will still follow UK developments with a keen interest.

 I'm glad all your future summers will undoubtedly filled with glorious sun and tropical heat, and cold winters are a thing of the past.

All the best, J.

You're full of crap mate. In a topic about growing palms in England, and specifically London, you are trying to lecture us about our own climate and trying to convince us that our climate is rubbish, cold and rainy and outright dreadful. Despite the fact that we have 125 year old date palms present here. :floor: I would hedge a bet that the largest CIDP on Tresco is still larger than any in Christchurch... B)

I have been trying to discuss this with fellow UK growers, as we attempt to grow palms here and zone push, while you want to put down our efforts and portray our climate and endeavours as nonsense. Go set up a New Zealand topic and comment in that instead of shit talking to us. I can assure you that I won't lecture you on a topic about New Zealand's climate, or palms. I'm not arrogant enough to tell you about your own climate and put down your palm growing endeavours. You little stuck up rat. 

I would love to meet you in person, to discuss this of course. Your over the top sarcasm seems to imply that you know it all. Despite not even living in southeast England. I am 30 miles outside of central London and record temperatures and rainfall here. I know what I am talking about. I have already stated several times that we are a temperate oceanic climate, which borderlines on warm Mediterranean summer climate, some years at least. Make of that what you will. The palms being grown here these days do the talking anyway...

Your entire post above is just shit talking and sarcasm. A few people might not pick up on that, but I have. While I do enjoy a good laugh, it's not even good natured. You're just a prat mate. All talk, no trousers. John countered your argument as well, and now you're getting salty about it. None of your posts benefit any palm growers in southern England. If anything your comments will just scare people into not growing palms here which is counterproductive to the course. And you don't even live here. 

It's exactly the same rhetoric that people told me before I started growing species such as Chamaerops, CIDP, Washies etc. All of which are now thriving here. It's scaremongering and playing into the dull, rainy London stereotype. Not a positive word to say in any of your posts. Again, I have uploaded enough pictures on the past 2-3 pages to disprove your pessimistic nonsense. 

I'm all for keeping this thread positive and discussing our endeavours with fellow UK growers who are trying to grow palms here. Or other growers from around the world who are trying to help and be positive. But frankly, your input is irrelevant at this stage, since you are just talking crap, trying to mock our climate and put down our palm growing efforts. You can just do one mate. Had enough of your crap now. Absolute muppet. 

Peace :greenthumb:

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UK_Palms
9 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

In Raleigh I haven’t had a high under 70 since May ... abnormal yes as typically September will be be first month to go under 70 one or 2 days a month.  Either way abnormal or not London doesn’t even average highs over 70 in June let alone go all of summer , most of May and September with highs above 70 unabated. London has had july  average maximums in the mid 60s. Similar to my March weather or nyc late April weather .

My average high in June 2017 was 76F. 

My average high in June 2018 was 82F. 

My average high in June 2019 was 74F. 

So your notion that we don't even average 70F in June is false nowadays, on average. But I do agree that London and southern England lacks the heat of locations further south, such as your own. But that comes with the territory of being at 51N. We live with it. 

But even still, it's hardly 'cold' during the summer here, as you make out. In recent years, our average highs are marginally warmer than San Diego in June and July, put it that way.

London had an average high of 85F in July 2018 and an average high of 78F in July 2019, so stop with the stereotypical nonsense. There is plenty of heat during the summer for palms to thrive here. Again, that is evidenced by the pictures I have attached in this thread. 

On top of that, our winters are far more mild than places like NYC (which you list), or Raleigh in NC that has experienced a low of -23C before. Given that statistic, you have no place to be putting down London's climate in a palm growing topic. How many CIDP's have you got growing in Raleigh that compare in size to the ones growing in London... genuine question...? 

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PalmsNC
4 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

My average high in June 2017 was 76F. 

My average high in June 2018 was 82F. 

My average high in June 2019 was 74F. 

So your notion that we don't even average 70F in June is false nowadays, on average. But I do agree that London and southern England lacks the heat of locations further south, such as your own. But that comes with the territory of being at 51N. We live with it. 

But even still, it's hardly 'cold' during the summer here, as you make out. In recent years, our average highs are marginally warmer than San Diego in June and July, put it that way.

London had an average high of 85F in July 2018 and an average high of 78F in July 2019, so stop with the stereotypical nonsense. There is plenty of heat during the summer for palms to thrive here. Again, that is evidenced by the pictures I have attached in this thread. 

On top of that, our winters are far more mild than places like NYC (which you list), or Raleigh in NC that has experienced a low of -23C before. Given that statistic, you have no place to be putting down London's climate in a palm growing topic. How many CIDP's have you got growing in Raleigh that compare in size to the ones growing in London... genuine question...? 

I get 70 degree highs in January on average mate . Try again , I don’t care what the low is . Obviously matters for palms but not so much for classifications . Raleigh is subtropical , London is not . No where in the U.K. is.

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SubarcticUK
17 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

My average high in June 2017 was 76F. 

My average high in June 2018 was 82F. 

My average high in June 2019 was 74F. 

So your notion that we don't even average 70F in June is false nowadays, on average. But I do agree that London and southern England lacks the heat of locations further south, such as your own. But that comes with the territory of being at 51N. We live with it. 

But even still, it's hardly 'cold' during the summer here, as you make out. In recent years, our average highs are marginally warmer than San Diego in June and July, put it that way.

London had an average high of 85F in July 2018 and an average high of 78F in July 2019, so stop with the stereotypical nonsense. There is plenty of heat during the summer for palms to thrive here. Again, that is evidenced by the pictures I have attached in this thread. 

On top of that, our winters are far more mild than places like NYC (which you list), or Raleigh in NC that has experienced a low of -23C before. Given that statistic, you have no place to be putting down London's climate in a palm growing topic. How many CIDP's have you got growing in Raleigh that compare in size to the ones growing in London... genuine question...? 

So I looked at Wunderground’s data for London City Airport and calculated the average high. It’s 80.8°F. 76.3°F for July 2019. And those are your warmer than average months.

Sure, London may be warmer than SD during June Gloom. However, San Diego’s average high is 76.4°F in August... warmer than any station in London. Winter is not even close to being a comparison, obviously. And that’s the immediate coast of San Diego. Try just about anywhere in inland California, inland Oregon, or even inland Washington that isn’t at very high elevation. Oops!

Edited by SubarcticUK

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UK_Palms
3 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

I get 70 degree highs in January on average mate . Try again , I don’t care what the low is . Obviously matters for palms but not so much for classifications . Raleigh is subtropical , London is not . No where in the U.K. is.

You're deluded pal. You literally have rose tinted specs on. 

Raleigh averages a low of 31F in January. Yes, 31F in January. Compared to London's average low of 41F in January. Not to mention Raleigh has seen a low of -9F (-23C), compared to London's record low of +10F. In fact London didn't drop below 28F last winter. Which is why there are large CIDP's and Washingtonia growing and thriving there.  

This is a palm growing topic, not a topic about 'who get's the highest temperatures in summer'. In which case you would win. But since it is a palm growing topic, in regards to southern England, please show me the large CIDP's that you guys are growing over there, that rival the ones currently being grown in London. 

The simple answer is... that you can't. Because it is too cold in winter where you are. So all your criticism about London's summer temperatures is irrelevant, given that this is a palm growing topic. How you can state that Raleigh is subtropical, but London isn't is beyond me. I'd accept you saying that neither are subtropical, but your argument that Raleigh is subtropical is completely redundant. If it was subtropical, you would have large Chamaerops, CIDP, Washies, cacti etc... but you don't. 

Plus, I had a high of 74F in February this year. So you really have no idea what you are talking about in the grand scheme of things. This debate is actually becoming comical... 

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B87
1 minute ago, UK_Palms said:

You're deluded pal. You literally have rose tinted specs on. 

Raleigh averages a low of 31F in January. Yes, 31F in January. Compared to London's average low of 41F in January. Not to mention Raleigh has seen a low of -9F (-23C), compared to London's record low of +10F. In fact London didn't drop below 28F last winter. Which is why there are large CIDP's and Washingtonia growing and thriving there.  

This is a palm growing topic, not a topic about 'who get's the highest temperatures in summer'. In which case you would win. But since it is a palm growing topic, in regards to southern England, please show me the large CIDP's that you guys are growing over there, that rival the ones currently being grown in London. 

The simple answer is... that you can't. Because it is too cold in winter where you are. So all your criticism about London's summer temperatures is irrelevant, given that this is a palm growing topic. How you can state that Raleigh is subtropical, but London isn't is beyond me. I'd accept you saying that neither are subtropical, but your argument that Raleigh is subtropical is completely redundant. If it was subtropical, you would have large Chamaerops, CIDP, Washies, cacti etc... but you don't. 

Plus, I had a high of 74F in February this year. So you really have no idea what you are talking about in the grand scheme of things. This debate is actually becoming comical... 

This post is so full of lies I don't even know where to begin. I'll just say that the idea that London hit 74F in February (the all time record high is 70F) is a joke as are your "41F lows", London's average low in January is 36F. 

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PalmsNC
11 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

You're deluded pal. You literally have rose tinted specs on. 

Raleigh averages a low of 31F in January. Yes, 31F in January. Compared to London's average low of 41F in January. Not to mention Raleigh has seen a low of -9F (-23C), compared to London's record low of +10F. In fact London didn't drop below 28F last winter. Which is why there are large CIDP's and Washingtonia growing and thriving there.  

This is a palm growing topic, not a topic about 'who get's the highest temperatures in summer'. In which case you would win. But since it is a palm growing topic, in regards to southern England, please show me the large CIDP's that you guys are growing over there, that rival the ones currently being grown in London. 

The simple answer is... that you can't. Because it is too cold in winter where you are. So all your criticism about London's summer temperatures is irrelevant, given that this is a palm growing topic. How you can state that Raleigh is subtropical, but London isn't is beyond me. I'd accept you saying that neither are subtropical, but your argument that Raleigh is subtropical is completely redundant. If it was subtropical, you would have large Chamaerops, CIDP, Washies, cacti etc... but you don't. 

Plus, I had a high of 74F in February this year. So you really have no idea what you are talking about in the grand scheme of things. This debate is actually becoming comical... 

Raleigh and London have the same mean in January . Despite this raleigh is defintely the warmer climate , 1/3 winter days are over 60 meanwhile the first single 60 degree day in London on average doesn’t arrive till March. 74 bs first off record is 70 second dude I hit 74 on average every February and have gotten to 84. Yes I get more extremes but I have gotten 5 straight nights over 60, as high as 66 around the winter solstice with highs near 80 before and winter months that averaged over 60! 

 

My average April is like your average July ! Hell my average April gets hotter than your average July . You are deluded .

 

Cfa climates are places where the mean in winter is over 0c ... raleigh has that at 41 degrees just like central London. And summer means of 22c . Raleigh smashes that at 27 c means . London doesn’t even average 27c highs or even 20c means 

Edited by PalmsNC
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SubarcticUK
12 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

You're deluded pal. You literally have rose tinted specs on. 

Raleigh averages a low of 31F in January. Yes, 31F in January. Compared to London's average low of 41F in January. Not to mention Raleigh has seen a low of -9F (-23C), compared to London's record low of +10F. In fact London didn't drop below 28F last winter. Which is why there are large CIDP's and Washingtonia growing and thriving there.  

This is a palm growing topic, not a topic about 'who get's the highest temperatures in summer'. In which case you would win. But since it is a palm growing topic, in regards to southern England, please show me the large CIDP's that you guys are growing over there, that rival the ones currently being grown in London. 

The simple answer is... that you can't. Because it is too cold in winter where you are. So all your criticism about London's summer temperatures is irrelevant, given that this is a palm growing topic. How you can state that Raleigh is subtropical, but London isn't is beyond me. I'd accept you saying that neither are subtropical, but your argument that Raleigh is subtropical is completely redundant. If it was subtropical, you would have large Chamaerops, CIDP, Washies, cacti etc... but you don't. 

Plus, I had a high of 74F in February this year. So you really have no idea what you are talking about in the grand scheme of things. This debate is actually becoming comical... 

CIDPs grow in Wilmington, less than 200 km from Raleigh.

The definition of subtropical is not based on palm trees. Raleigh is 15 degrees of latitude south of London. It has far warmer springs, summers, and falls than anywhere in the UK can dream of. Subtropical under both the Koppen and Trewartha systems. Even the winter mean temperatures are roughly the same.

Edited by SubarcticUK
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UK_Palms
2 minutes ago, B87 said:

This post is so full of lies I don't even know where to begin. I'll just say that the idea that London hit 74F in February (the all time record high is 70F) is a joke as are your "41F lows", London's average low in January is 36F. 

I'm beginning to think you aren't even from London, mate. 

We actually broke the all time temperature record for February this year, with an 'official' high of 72F, going by the actual Met Office stations, of which there are none within a 10 mile radius of me. I however clocked 74F here, as did multiple other 'unofficial' stations in my vicinity. Some reached 75F. So maybe the Met should invest in more stations so we can get a wider range of readings, instead of the odd few around London. 

And London officially averages a low of 41F in January, or 44F if we're going by the 2019 average low. Perhaps you should check the climatic statistics again. It seems you are taking the average low from the western, inland suburbs near Heathrow, as opposed to central London. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_London

:greenthumb:

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SubarcticUK
4 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I'm beginning to think you aren't even from London, mate. 

We actually broke the all time temperature record for February this year, with an 'official' high of 72F, going by the actual Met Office stations, of which there are none within a 10 mile radius of me. I however clocked 74F here, as did multiple other 'unofficial' stations in my vicinity. Some reached 75F. So maybe the Met should invest in more stations so we can get a wider range of readings, instead of the odd few around London. 

And London officially averages a low of 41F in January, or 44F if we're going by the 2019 average low. Perhaps you should check the climatic statistics again. It seems you are taking the average low from the western, inland suburbs near Heathrow, as opposed to central London. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_London

:greenthumb:

Interesting how Wunderground data for the London City Airport shows a max of 66°F for February 2019. The absolute February record for any London station is 70°F at Kew Gardens. 

Also, Central London is infamous for UHI.

Edited by SubarcticUK

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PalmsNC
1 minute ago, SubarcticUK said:

Interesting how Wunderground data for the London City Airport shows a max of 66°F for February 2019. The absolute February record for any London station is 70°F at Kew Gardens. 

Also, Central London is infamous for UHI.

Also the central London station is misplaced on a rooftop which is not up to WMO standards 

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UK_Palms
5 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

Raleigh and London have the same mean in January . Despite this raleigh is defintely the warmer climate , 1/3 winter days are over 60 meanwhile the first single 60 degree day in London on average doesn’t arrive till March. 74 bs first off record is 70 second dude I hit 74 on average every February and have gotten to 84. Yes I get more extremes but I have gotten 5 straight nights over 60, as high as 66 around the winter solstice with highs near 80 before and winter months that averaged over 60! 

 

My average April is like your average July ! Hell my average April gets hotter than your average July . You are deluded .

 

Cfa climates are places where the mean in winter is over 0c ... raleigh has that at 41 degrees just like central London. And summer means of 22c . Raleigh smashes that at 27 c means . London doesn’t even average 27c highs or even 20c means 

 

4 minutes ago, SubarcticUK said:

CIDPs grow in Wilmington, less than 200 km from Raleigh.

The definition of subtropical is not based on palm trees. Raleigh is 15 degrees of latitude south of London. It has far warmer springs, summers, and falls than anywhere in the UK can dream of. Subtropical under both the Koppen and Trewartha systems. Even the winter mean temperatures are roughly the same.

 

Yet again, all this crap talking about London's climate and trying to draw up comparison's with your own climate's, just because you get more summer heat. I accept that. But please show me your large CIDP's, Chamaerops and Washingtonia in Raleigh and Portland. 

Again, you can't. You guys are too cold and have too much rainfall/snow in winter to grow them there, which makes your argument in a palm growing topic redundant, given that you are trying to talk smack about my own climate when it comes to growing palms. Yet we have decent sized CIDP, Chamaerops, Washingtonia and even cacti here. 

You're not even providing any pics to back up your arguments. I believe I have provided over 20 pics of decent sized CIDP's around London and several pics of large Washingtonia, as well as the huge 150 year old CIDP's on Tresco. Plus the large Bangalow palms in the extreme southwest of England, which are a subtropical palm. Good luck growing them in your locations. 

You guys are absolutely deluded to continue this debate...

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B87
Just now, UK_Palms said:

 

 

Yet again, all this crap talking about London's climate and trying to draw up comparison's with your own climate's, just because you get more summer heat. I accept that. But please show me your large CIDP's, Chamaerops and Washingtonia in Raleigh and Portland. 

Again, you can't. You guys are too cold and have too much rainfall/snow in winter to grow them there, which makes your argument in a palm growing topic redundant, given that you are trying to talk smack about my own climate when it comes to growing palms. Yet we have decent sized CIDP, Chamaerops, Washingtonia and even cacti here. 

You're not even providing any pics to back up your arguments. I believe I have provided over 20 pics of decent sized CIDP's around London and several pics of large Washingtonia, as well as the huge 150 year old CIDP's on Tresco. Plus the large Bangalow palms in the extreme southwest of England, which are a subtropical palm. Good luck growing them in your locations. 

You guys are absolutely deluded to continue this debate...

Actually you’re the one who’s deluded here and your rose colored glasses are so tinted you can’t even see through them.

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PalmsNC
3 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

 

 

Yet again, all this crap talking about London's climate and trying to draw up comparison's with your own climate's, just because you get more summer heat. I accept that. But please show me your large CIDP's, Chamaerops and Washingtonia in Raleigh and Portland. 

Again, you can't. You guys are too cold and have too much rainfall/snow in winter to grow them there, which makes your argument in a palm growing topic redundant, given that you are trying to talk smack about my own climate when it comes to growing palms. Yet we have decent sized CIDP, Chamaerops, Washingtonia and even cacti here. 

You're not even providing any pics to back up your arguments. I believe I have provided over 20 pics of decent sized CIDP's around London and several pics of large Washingtonia, as well as the huge 150 year old CIDP's on Tresco. Plus the large Bangalow palms in the extreme southwest of England, which are a subtropical palm. Good luck growing them in your locations. 

You guys are absolutely deluded to continue this debate...

Places do grow washies here ... there’s one guy in Winston Salem and a plethora of them along lake Wylie in Charlotte apparently . Sure , you can grow a cidp better but even that is marginal. Gl having one survive another December 2010 or January 1963 . London has had a mild streak, Raleigh had one too 2001-2014 ... it ended . No reason yours won’t it’s just climate . Only palms reliable 110% in London are windmills . 

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UK_Palms
Just now, B87 said:

Actually you’re the one who’s deluded here and your rose colored glasses are so tinted you can’t even see through them.

Actually, you're just siding with the other guys because there are several people who are ganging up and talking smack. Picking sides and all, to feel included.

The London climate is far from perfect, it is certainly not tropical in any capacity and can be quite cold and bleak in winter, but the notion that we do not get any summer heat and have a crap climate is absolute nonsense. I am shocked that you are prepared to side with this notion and stereotype, just to fit in with the others. 

Again, I refer people to the numerous pictures I have uploaded on the previous pages. I'll let those pictures do the talking. Clearly we grow a lot of decent sized, sub-tropical palms here. This topic is actually becoming comical now...

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SubarcticUK

AE468171-CFC3-4707-BB17-CAC29D55DD1D.thumb.jpeg.24e43e34858f2ea05b25dbb62bfdd4ac.jpeg41512F5F-D4ED-4BE8-B3AE-92F99B8675EA.thumb.jpeg.10ba7fbe075f730052589e1729dad4da.jpeg

 

First CIDP is in Gold Beach, Oregon. Second CIDP is in Brookings, Oregon.

North Carolina has two NATIVE species of palms.

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sipalms
1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Despite the fact that we have 125 year old date palms present here. :floor: I would hedge a bet that the largest CIDP on Tresco is still larger than any in Christchurch... B)

Bother. Dang. I never wanted to get back in on this this thread.

But this is too good of an offer to resist. PM me and we can set this up.

The largest one I have ever seen in CHCH is just few km from my house.... Waiting for this opportunity :)

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UK_Palms
9 minutes ago, SubarcticUK said:

AE468171-CFC3-4707-BB17-CAC29D55DD1D.thumb.jpeg.24e43e34858f2ea05b25dbb62bfdd4ac.jpeg41512F5F-D4ED-4BE8-B3AE-92F99B8675EA.thumb.jpeg.10ba7fbe075f730052589e1729dad4da.jpeg

 

First CIDP is in Gold Beach, Oregon. Second CIDP is in Brookings, Oregon.

North Carolina has two NATIVE species of palms.

Those are some nice, decent sized specimens. But Gold Beach and Brookings is not Portland, Oregon which you were drawing up a direct comparison with before. You know, when you posted climate information and arguments relating to Portland specifically, where you reside. I mean those locations are more than 200 miles south of Portland, close to the California border.

That's like me making an argument for Liverpool, in northeastern England, having a sup-tropical climate and large, abundant palm trees, then posting pictures of CIDP's from London to back it up when called out. 

I'm at a wits end with this topic. 

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UK_Palms
12 minutes ago, sipalms said:

Bother. Dang. I never wanted to get back in on this this thread.

But this is too good of an offer to resist. PM me and we can set this up.

The largest one I have ever seen in CHCH is just few km from my house.... Waiting for this opportunity :)

Well why did you get back on this thread then..?

These are the CIDP's at Tresco. Latitude 50N. Let's see the ones in Christchurch that compare in size, considering you have a so much more favourable climate, supposedly... as you kept making out...

Tresco CIPD 1.jpg

Tresco CIPD 2.jpg

Tresco CIPD 3.jpg

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UK_Palms
Just now, sipalms said:

@UK_Palms still waiting for your PM

PM about what? :lol2:

You're on the opposite side of world, mate. Why not just post pictures, publicly, to back up your claims, or am I missing the point...? 

You've absolutely slated my climate and the palm growing chances for new enthusiasts here. This is the exact type of rhetoric that makes people think you cannot grow palms here, or puts them off even trying. You haven't brought a single constructive thing to this topic.

They should seriously check your drinking water...

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sipalms

874712602_20191015_1452132.thumb.jpg.71b98f30144d96b5f1ef5fa93e22c98b.jpg

Here's a nearby one I just took a photo of right now.

Christchurch as a place was hardly even a thing 125 years ago so I'd say this is probably more like 50 years old. 

Nor am I claiming this climate is subtropical. It is far from it...

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UK_Palms
1 hour ago, PalmsNC said:

I get 70 degree highs in January on average mate . Try again , I don’t care what the low is . Obviously matters for palms but not so much for classifications . Raleigh is subtropical , London is not . No where in the U.K. is.

 

1 hour ago, PalmsNC said:

Places do grow washies here ... there’s one guy in Winston Salem and a plethora of them along lake Wylie in Charlotte apparently . Sure , you can grow a cidp better but even that is marginal. Gl having one survive another December 2010 or January 1963 . London has had a mild streak, Raleigh had one too 2001-2014 ... it ended . No reason yours won’t it’s just climate . Only palms reliable 110% in London are windmills . 

 

I find it absolutely baffling that you can claim that Raleigh is subtropical, when your record low is -23C. That is absolute madness. And you have the tenacity to argue in the same sentence that London's climate is not sub-tropical :floor:

It seems your lowest temperature for 2018 was -16C on Jan 7th. That will knock out Trachycarpus Fortunei even. All but the hardiest ones at least. So you should be expecting -15C at least in any given year in Raleigh. That's brutally cold. 

I have been alive 27 years and the coldest London has seen in that time is about -7C. Last year it only got down to -2C. A massive difference.

Given that we also hit 38C (100F) during the summer, I would say that London is currently sub-tropical. Whereas your climate is not.

Forget pre-dated, expired definitions and what not. You cannot live in a 'subtropical' climate if you can't grow anything subtropical there. Which you can't. Fact.

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SubarcticUK
11 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

 

 

I find it absolutely baffling that you can claim that Raleigh is subtropical, when your record low is -23C. That is absolute madness. And you have the tenacity to argue in the same sentence that London's climate is not sub-tropical :floor:

It seems your lowest temperature for 2018 was -16C on Jan 7th. That will knock out Trachycarpus Fortunei even. All but the hardiest ones at least. So you should be expecting -15C at least in any given year in Raleigh. That's brutally cold. 

I have been alive 27 years and the coldest London has seen in that time is about -7C. Last year it only got down to -2C. A massive difference.

Given that we also hit 38C (100F) during the summer, I would say that London is currently sub-tropical. Whereas your climate is not.

Forget pre-dated, expired definitions and what not. You cannot live in a 'subtropical' climate if you can't grow anything subtropical there. Which you can't. Fact.

Tallahassee, Florida has a record low of -19°C.

Ketchikan, Alaska has a record low of -18°C.

Is Ketchikan subtropical? What about Tallahassee?

Also, you do not hit 100°F in the summer outside of freak events. Many years, London has trouble even getting to 90°F.

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UK_Palms
4 minutes ago, sipalms said:

874712602_20191015_1452132.thumb.jpg.71b98f30144d96b5f1ef5fa93e22c98b.jpg

Here's a nearby one I just took a photo of right now.

Christchurch as a place was hardly even a thing 125 years ago so I'd say this is probably more like 50 years old. 

Nor am I claiming this climate is subtropical. It is far from it...

Fair do's. That's a decent sized CIDP. I know CIDP's do well in Christchurch, but I was intrigued to see how big they have got to over there, given all the crap talking about London's climate and our chances growing palms. 

That one is a similar size to the big ones on Tresco, although it's definitely not bigger than the tallest one on Tresco which is about 60ft. That might be a CIDP x Dacty cross though. It was listed as being 55ft in 2006, but it has clearly grown since then. The picture below is from 2006.

Again, that is genuinely a good, impressive specimen you've uploaded though. 

:greenthumb:

 

26810.jpg

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branislav
1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Well why did you get back on this thread then..?

These are the CIDP's at Tresco. Latitude 50N. Let's see the ones in Christchurch that compare in size, considering you have a so much more favourable climate, supposedly... as you kept making out...

Tresco CIPD 1.jpg

Tresco CIPD 2.jpg

Tresco CIPD 3.jpg

Wow! I love these views! If you didn't tell me this was in the UK, I would have guessed California. I know people are giving you crap about the weather in London, but who cares about the designation if you can have a wonderful garden like this, with pretty awesome palms!

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