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Fertilizers For Different Locals?


Butch

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I read on Jungle Musics web site that Phil recommends a "3-1-3 ratio fertilizer. 

http://www.junglemusic.net/palmadvice/palms-fertilizing-palms.htm

I live in SO California about 15 miles from the Pacific. I. Was wondering if different locals around the world, or even close by would reguire different amendments. I would think areas of more rain will be more acidic than our rainless desert, and have more or less minerals available...

Here are some folks really happy with PalmGain out of Florida, which is a 4-1-6 ratio (8-2-12), or Carl Pool out of Texas, that is a 3-1-3 (12-4-12)... Is the fertilizer made for the local soil conditions? I'm in the market for some now. In the past I just used what ever said "Palm Fertilizer" on the front of the package... What is the consensus on what I should get for my area? Is it all that critical? Just personal preference? Maybe we should start a survey? Who uses what, and where?...

Butch

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The best fertilizer will vary with the characteristics of the soil and the nutrient requirements of the plants.  Unfortunately, the best fertilizer may not be readily available in your area and may require shipping.  What type of soil do you have and what plants do you want to fertilize?  

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10 hours ago, Steve in Florida said:

The best fertilizer will vary with the characteristics of the soil and the nutrient requirements of the plants.  Unfortunately, the best fertilizer may not be readily available in your area and may require shipping.  What type of soil do you have and what plants do you want to fertilize?  

Steve... I removed all of the native soil down to 3'-5' and replaced it with about 30 cu yds of   http://whittierfertilizer.com/product/planter-box-mix/                                                                                           It has been excellent stuff for palms,citrus and flowers, that I have been using for about 20 years... I have Wodyetias, Veitchias, Dypsis Lutescenes, Queens, lagenicaulis, roebelleniis, Ptychosperma elegans, Howea forsteriana, Ravenea rivularis and sagos, all growing in this mix... Lately I have been using Vigoro from Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vigoro-3-5-lb-Palm-Ixora-and-Ornamental-Plant-Food-134242/203106249

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I would think a 3-1-3 ratio would be ideal.  A 4-1-6 ratio would work but you would see less growth, especially if the mix has a lot of uncomposted matter in it.

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Anyone know of a quality 3-1-3 ratio fertilizer available here in the Los Angeles/Orange County part of California?

Or am I over thinking all of this?....

Butch

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I've always heard 3-1-2 is best for palms, but here in the East Bay Area I always have a K or Mg deficiency so perhaps a higher K ratio might be in order. I currently supplement with Sul-Po-Mag.

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Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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I have used Grow More 18-6-18 water soluble fertilizer and noticed greening on palms fairly quickly.  If you have a good way to apply this I would recommend it. Grow More makes a siphon mixer that can be connected to a hose and used with a 5 gal bucket.  The siphon mixer works out ok with shorter hoses but would be time consuming with longer hoses or lots of palms.  

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Seems like good stuff the micro nutrients seem low compared to Carl Pool palm fertilizer which i use local stuff (Houston) 

T J 

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Well, seems Amazon is fresh out of 10 Lbs. PalmGain bags. Ebay is price gouging. LoL.  Good thing I stocked up (till Dec).

I don't have that many palms to justify 50 Lbs. bags but I know many palmtalker's do. 

 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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Well crap!... HD sent it to Tuscon Arazona, instead of La Mirada CA... So they cancelled the order.... Maybe if I had paid for the shipping, and they would have sent it to the right place :bummed:... Oh well I get to do it allover again...

Butch

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  • 1 year later...
On 10/1/2019 at 9:29 AM, Butch said:

Well crap!... HD sent it to Tuscon Arazona, instead of La Mirada CA... So they cancelled the order.... Maybe if I had paid for the shipping, and they would have sent it to the right place :bummed:... Oh well I get to do it allover again...

Butch

So how has palmgain worked out for you? I live in La Puente,CA and would like to try it if it has give you good results. Thanks.

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10 hours ago, cdpmath said:

So how has palmgain worked out for you? I live in La Puente,CA and would like to try it if it has give you good results. Thanks.

Palmgain has worked pretty good for me. I live in Rancho Cucamonga Ca. That said there are many fertilizers I have not tried.

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PH can make alot of difference in terms of bioavailability of nutrients. At high ph certain minerals are usually available and some locked and obviously more is available with acidic soil... the key is to keep the soil live @ bioavailability... for most plants....

rainwater does the tricks whereas alot of treated water doesnt necessarily kill all of the microbes but it is competing... freshwater kelp treatments can help alot of plants in areas where city water is necessary... 

Also previous trees or crops can deplete minerals. it's good to use rock dust but again for most... a few types seem to thrive on dirt

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I like Palmgain a lot, I can actually see the difference in spring as things tend to be a little yellow after all our winter rains.  It does green them up rather quickly.  It's not slow release so it works great for those of us on the West Coast due to our lack of summer rain.  I have to water it in, otherwise it will sit there until October.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/25/2020 at 10:47 PM, cdpmath said:

So how has palmgain worked out for you? I live in La Puente,CA and would like to try it if it has give you good results. Thanks.

Sorry, I just saw this... I've only used it once, but it seems to work pretty well.. I'm going to keep using it... I haven't been as attentive as I should be with the palms, as it's been a really weird year.. 

Butch

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8-2-12 is a florida formulation and is based on the need for low phos in fertilizer(we have P in groundwater/soil here) and a high rain environment with high drainage soils(more potassium than nitrogen due to K washing away much faster than N).  I would just listen to Phil, he has a ton of experience.  Florikan makes different NPK ratios for different regions.  3-1-3 is the same as 12-4-12 or 18-6-18 they are all the same ratio to each other.  There simply is no best ratio for all environments, its too simplistic.  In california soils generally have high cation exchange so even spikes are fine.  In florida spikes are not a good strategy due to high rain and high drainage.  Its hard to know how much fertilizer to add when you dont know how much is washed away by rain.  This is where florikan with its osmotic release is at a real advantage over say palm gain, and its worth every penny since you will need much more palm gain to do the same job since it DOES rinse away.

On 9/16/2019 at 9:16 PM, Butch said:

I read on Jungle Musics web site that Phil recommends a "3-1-3 ratio fertilizer. 

http://www.junglemusic.net/palmadvice/palms-fertilizing-palms.htm

I live in SO California about 15 miles from the Pacific. I. Was wondering if different locals around the world, or even close by would reguire different amendments. I would think areas of more rain will be more acidic than our rainless desert, and have more or less minerals available...

Here are some folks really happy with PalmGain out of Florida, which is a 4-1-6 ratio (8-2-12), or Carl Pool out of Texas, that is a 3-1-3 (12-4-12)... Is the fertilizer made for the local soil conditions? I'm in the market for some now. In the past I just used what ever said "Palm Fertilizer" on the front of the package... What is the consensus on what I should get for my area? Is it all that critical? Just personal preference? Maybe we should start a survey? Who uses what, and where?...

Butch

 

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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I ended up picking up the Florikan blend @sonoranfans used from a vendor in Apopka. They had no problem that I was not a wholesale buyer!

We will see how it works out! I do like the benefit of it apparently not going to waste when it’s too cold etc. 

Also, not withstanding the other benefits @sonoranfans mentioned, it is actually way cheaper than PalmGain. I was able to get my Florikan 50lb bag for $55. A 10lb bag of palmgain is $25 at my local Home Depot. 

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Florikan nutricote has everything polymer  coated in one prill it's what I've been using for years and changed my palms totally. I bought a bag of palmgain to check it out and what a disappointment. Basically a water soluble with some polymer coated prills. Good choice going with Florikan!!! The "Apopka Vendor " is awesome great people 

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Any thoughts regarding fertilizer specific to potted palms? I’ve searched and seen it asked before but I feel like many well-intentioned PT’ers usually end up chiming in with what they use for their in-ground palms and that it varies based on a locality’s soil, though I imagine potted soils of common formulations don’t have much to do with native soil composition. What does the PH tend to be for potted palms in a pine bark, peat, perlite based soil?

Is there any long-term benefit for using instant release ferts like palm gain? I just used palm gain on a few palms showing signs of nutrient deficiency just prior to the warm snap we had for about a week here. I figured the warmer days would give them some time to absorb the nutrients, and I did see them green up a bit, but I do question if this is the most efficient type of fertilizer for potted palms given that it likely washes out. 

 

Former South Florida resident living in the Greater Orlando Area, zone 9b.

Constantly wishing I could still grow zone 10 palms worry-free, but also trying to appease my strange fixation with Washingtonias. 

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 @chad2468emr I just picked up a new fertilizer from my local nursery products supplier. It's a controlled release produced locally intended for growers like me who are primarily growing in pots here in S FL. 

Perhaps @sonoranfans can give you some insight on your probable PH range and possible short term benefits during winter warm spells of a quick release like Palmgain.

Below is a material sheet that was attached. Produced by Diamond R fertilizer. Doesn't show up on their website yet but I'm curious what @sonoranfans thinks about it.

 

 

2021-01-05_204531.jpg

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4 hours ago, Reeverse said:

Florikan nutricote has everything polymer  coated in one prill it's what I've been using for years and changed my palms totally. I bought a bag of palmgain to check it out and what a disappointment. Basically a water soluble with some polymer coated prills. Good choice going with Florikan!!! The "Apopka Vendor " is awesome great people 

I couldn’t think of the name ha ha

It’s BWI off 441 near 429. Had to look at my receipt!

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I got some Florikan Nutricote Total Z 14-4-14 270 day duration which was the closest formulation to 8-2-12 they make. I got it at Howard’s on Orange Ave. in Orlando. 50 lb bag for $58.50. The weird thing is, they make all sorts of different durations (60,90,100,140,180,270,360) but they were all the same price so I got the longest duration they had. The only thing I don’t like is that the minor/trace elements are of a lower % than other fertilizers. For example, the iron is only .80% and the manganese is only .06%. However these are the slow release numbers so that is a good thing.

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I use the florikan product on my potted palms too, potted palms have a "washout" problem as well without controlled release.  With osmotic release, you get consistent delivery through time.  When you see deficiency it was most likely caused by what happened months ago.  I tried using slow release and adding it every month but it just did not get rid of the K deficiency.  Summer rains wash that stuff away and you are wasteing it.  I used to add 2x the amount of fertilizer with lesco slow release and I couldnt get the deficincies under control.  Florikan brought it under control within a year.  Remember K deficiency is never resolved on older leaves, what you add now s to prevent newer leaves.  Potassium is fixed in the leaf so once it becomes deficient its permanent for that leaf.  Worry about the new leaves.  Think about yourself, would you like to be fed 1x a month with lots of food or every day?  Out west with little or no rain and the high cation exchange soils(clay), spikes worked fine.  In florida that spike will fertilize a small circle of soil around it insertion point because drainage down is far faster than cappillary action that moves water and nutrients horizontally.   So like drip irrigation you get a small spot that is fertilized/wetted.  If you have clay it will be different in florida as the soil will retain some nutrients in the cation exchange.  But the heavy rains here will wash slow release ferts away by runoff into the local low spots.  Univeristy of florida gainesville horticulture dept explains this in their literature.  Your soil type matters and sandy high drainage soil has issues that have differrent considerations.  If your potting mis is high drainage, osmotic delivery is the way to go.

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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I use florikan 180 day "palm blend" its designed specifically for palms.  Palms are different there are dozens of different fertilizer applications including grass, flowers etc.  Then there are formulations for different climates and soils within each of these applications.

 

FlorikanPalmBlend.thumb.jpg.a3855499379c9b7b5d6445ef1b2b26f1.jpg

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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16 hours ago, NickJames said:

I couldn’t think of the name ha ha

It’s BWI off 441 near 429. Had to look at my receipt!

Yes I knew. Great people. My Grandpa showed me that place 10 years ago and they're the only people I know of with Florikan in our area. The Nutricote is like 65.00 a bag and all the micros are in one polymer coated prill. Try that next it's a game changer 

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11 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I use florikan 180 day "palm blend" its designed specifically for palms.  Palms are different there are dozens of different fertilizer applications including grass, flowers etc.  Then there are formulations for different climates and soils within each of these applications.

 

FlorikanPalmBlend.thumb.jpg.a3855499379c9b7b5d6445ef1b2b26f1.jpg

Where did you get this? The website does not list this product. I was looking for a palm specific formulation but couldn’t find one. I tried calling their customer service line but nobody answers the phone.

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I got this at "big earth landscape supply" palmetto florida, 5 miles from my house.  I have been buying it from them for about 7 years.  Florikan used to call it "palm speclal", but the assay was the same the whole time.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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  • 1 month later...

@NickJames For BWI did you have to call in advance? Was it a warehouse or a storefront? I find myself going to warehouse districts far more often than you’d expect for palm supplies, haha. 

Their listed hours kill me a bit because they’re 45 mins from me and they close at 5. Might have to take a half day off for this because these warm temps are making me itch to get things fertilized and growing! 

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Former South Florida resident living in the Greater Orlando Area, zone 9b.

Constantly wishing I could still grow zone 10 palms worry-free, but also trying to appease my strange fixation with Washingtonias. 

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1 hour ago, chad2468emr said:

@NickJames For BWI did you have to call in advance? Was it a warehouse or a storefront? I find myself going to warehouse districts far more often than you’d expect for palm supplies, haha. 

Their listed hours kill me a bit because they’re 45 mins from me and they close at 5. Might have to take a half day off for this because these warm temps are making me itch to get things fertilized and growing! 

It’s kind of both. There’s an inside store part with a long desk with multiple staff behind it. Some fertilizer in that store area but didn’t check it out. The palm stuff is in the warehouse. The lady at desk checks you out and they page the warehouse to bring it out. 

I simply called in advance to make sure they had in stock. 

There’s a surcharge to use credit. Debit is free.

And to speak to it really being controlled release, I dug up my dead or nearly dead bottle palm today and the granules were still under the rocks after 1-2 months of being down. It’s been too cold for them to dissolve!

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14 hours ago, NickJames said:

It’s kind of both. There’s an inside store part with a long desk with multiple staff behind it. Some fertilizer in that store area but didn’t check it out. The palm stuff is in the warehouse. The lady at desk checks you out and they page the warehouse to bring it out. 

I simply called in advance to make sure they had in stock. 

There’s a surcharge to use credit. Debit is free.

And to speak to it really being controlled release, I dug up my dead or nearly dead bottle palm today and the granules were still under the rocks after 1-2 months of being down. It’s been too cold for them to dissolve!

Nice, thanks! Good to know. I’ll be paying them a visit shortly. 

Former South Florida resident living in the Greater Orlando Area, zone 9b.

Constantly wishing I could still grow zone 10 palms worry-free, but also trying to appease my strange fixation with Washingtonias. 

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14 hours ago, NickJames said:

It’s kind of both. There’s an inside store part with a long desk with multiple staff behind it. Some fertilizer in that store area but didn’t check it out. The palm stuff is in the warehouse. The lady at desk checks you out and they page the warehouse to bring it out. 

I simply called in advance to make sure they had in stock. 

There’s a surcharge to use credit. Debit is free.

And to speak to it really being controlled release, I dug up my dead or nearly dead bottle palm today and the granules were still under the rocks after 1-2 months of being down. It’s been too cold for them to dissolve!

The prills are coated with an ethylene vinyl acetate polymer (osmotic) membrane.  The coating takes longer to biodegrade than the distribution of the nutrients as it should be, osmotic controlled the whole time.  Delivery is 180 days for the fertilizer I use.  the prill coatings may take a year or two to biodegrade.  Burying them will not change that appreciably.  Osmotic delivery of nutrients slows a lot when good levels of nutrients are in the soil and it speeds up as they are depleted.  Also the micropores of the membrane shrink with temperature, thus slowing delivery as well.  I can't think of a better way to have a consistent nutrient delivery in soil that is being regularly rinsed by irrigation and/or rain.  I use about 1/2 the poundage of timed/slow release fertilizer that I used to use with obviously better results.  I think in climates with a wet hot season it is superior.  But if you live out west where it rarely rains in the hot season, it may not be much more effective than other timed/slow release fertilizers.

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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5 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

The prills are coated with an ethylene vinyl acetate polymer (osmotic) membrane.  The coating takes longer to biodegrade than the distribution of the nutrients as it should be, osmotic controlled the whole time.  Delivery is 180 days for the fertilizer I use.  the prill coatings may take a year or two to biodegrade.  Burying them will not change that appreciably.  Osmotic delivery of nutrients slows a lot when good levels of nutrients are in the soil and it speeds up as they are depleted.  Also the micropores of the membrane shrink with temperature, thus slowing delivery as well.  I can't think of a better way to have a consistent nutrient delivery in soil that is being regularly rinsed by irrigation and/or rain.  I use about 1/2 the poundage of timed/slow release fertilizer that I used to use with obviously better results.  I think in climates with a wet hot season it is superior.  But if you live out west where it rarely rains in the hot season, it may not be much more effective than other timed/slow release fertilizers.

Nice! Thanks for explanation. 

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On 2/7/2021 at 4:40 PM, chad2468emr said:

@NickJames For BWI did you have to call in advance? Was it a warehouse or a storefront? I find myself going to warehouse districts far more often than you’d expect for palm supplies, haha. 

Their listed hours kill me a bit because they’re 45 mins from me and they close at 5. Might have to take a half day off for this because these warm temps are making me itch to get things fertilized and growing! 

If you have time constraints, you might try Howard’s. The guy who sold me my fertilizer said they could deliver to me for no extra cost. And I’m in Merritt Island.

Orlando, FL - (407) 855-1841
8306 S Orange Ave, Orlando, FL 32809

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